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Philc1

Rex: Baker Mayfield “overrated as hell”

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Not surprised by this.  This year teams are gameplanning for him a lot more and it shows. The kid is talented no doubt but i always felt Sam was the better overall QB longterm. Plus Baker is a loudmouth lol.  Unfortunetly Sam has dealt with some injuries/sickness and a crummy Oline but despite all that has mostly been impressive. He is also a couple years younger than Mayfield

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Honestly I don’t pay attention to other QBs unless it directly impacts us BUT I will say it is a little a Gratifying seeing Mayfield fall back to earth.  Let’s be honest many people(even our own fans) were kind of kissing his ass and his arrogance and dumb comments make it’s tough to like him.  However I try to be fair. I do think he is talented and has a furure(as long as he keeps his head together) BUT I have always said that I feel Sam is the better overall QB and also mentally tougher 

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Just now, Philc1 said:

Villain your assessment of BM (that’s his new nickname) just goes to show how little you know about the quarterback position in the nfl

 

BM was a one read system guy at Oklahoma playing soft defenses.  Those guys never last in the nfl.  

 

Vince Young and RG3 from the same conference and system guys as BM had similarly good rookie years and then everything fell off a cliff and they got exposed

 

And the crazy thing is BM is actually in a better position to succeed than VY or RG3 his skill position weapons are vastly superior to anything they had and he looks even worse

Villain really has it bad for Baker 😂 

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12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Give Villain credit at least he sticks by his Baker love.  The other Baker lovers are in witness protection regarding this topic

True.  

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Mayfield has really fallen back to earth this year despite talent around him 

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Just now, Villain The Foe said:

True. The team looks terrible because the coaching staff is terrible. 

To support that, folks will agree that this team has talent, yet every bit of that talent has regressed. 

To be fair Baker wanted this head coach and we agree the team does have talent.  So yeah I agree he hadn’t been good but I don’t think that explains why Baker has been pretty bad. Look I’m not a Mayfield fan but he had a very good rookie year so it’s weird to see him fall backwards.  However maybe it was just a down year/sophomore slump we will see next year 

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

That is fair. To maintain fairness, John Dorsey knows the difference between positions and knows that Baker having success under one guy means nothing when you're still bringing in a new offenseive coordinator and when you're making a guy the head coach you have to be certain that he can coach the entire team, not just be a guy that Baker likes while he was under an offensive scheme that is no longer there. 

I think we should take it as it being a down year, which is fair. I think it's a stretch to even make it sound like Baker is also the general manager of this team. 

Never said Baker was the “general manager” but it’s obvious he had a lot of say after his very good rookie year.  The kid obviously had talent my main issue is his personality which I don’t like.  HOWEVER can’t make excuses for his bad play either.  So yes it’s possible he had a down year but at the same time despite a lot of talent around him he had not looked good.  Can’t just blame coaching 

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Just now, Villain The Foe said:

I didnt say you you said that, I said lets not make it sound as if he is. Baker Mayfield was presented with the option, Baker Mayfield didnt present that option to the team. So yes, he liked the option presented to him given past experience. In what scenario would a rookie not feel like this would be a good look for him? 

This isnt an excuse for his bad play, im just keeping it 100 about what has gone on with the team. The excuse im hearing is when coaching is criticized it's stated that "Baker wanted him". Im just clarifying that Baker was presented that option, by the GM...not the other way around. 

No caps. 

The bottom line is Baker has taken a step backward despite who the coach is.  The thing I always felt with Baker is what his ceiling/floor was since his a couple years older than the other QBs in that draft class?  I’m not saying he has reached it or not I don’t know.  But yeah I am surprised at his play this season considering they were really loaded with talent.  

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Of course not. He decided to leave college early and the Jets decided that he was worth the risk based on perceived talent. 

If they perceived that talent was there, then it shouldnt take 6 years to reveal itself. 

That's ridiculous. 

 

Baker Mayfield stayed in school, at the end of the day, he's a 2nd year QB just like Sam. 

 

That’s Fair.  Look it’s no secret I’m a Sam fan BUT I agree last year Baker was superior than Sam.  This year is more even although it is fair to say Sam still doesn’t have much support other than Robby and Crowder.  However I have no idea what the future holds for both.  If both are good that’s great because as Jet fans that means we are probably a perennial playoff contender(unless they fail to give him support).  However Like I said Baker obviously has talent as we saw last year.  I question his ceiling but maybe he bounces back next year and this was just a sophomore slump.  We shall see 

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4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

And the bottomline is, so has his coach. No one is making excuses that he took a step backward. To prove it to you...

The problem here is, folks want to lay all the blame at his feet. Which is bullsh*t. 

When did I blame Baker for everything?  I simply said he has taking a step backward which we both agreed on...

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Personnel doesnt matter when the coach doesnt know what to do with personnel. 

When you dont have a coach who can get the most out of their personnel then what difference does it make? 

At this very moment we have a Kliff Kingsbury thread on the 1st page and folks are realizing how Adam Gase also had Kenyon Drake, a dude who scored 4 TD's today against the Kitchens and the old Card's HC defense, yet Adam gase could barely get 4 TD's out of Drake for an entire season. 

No matter how you want to put it, Baker with superior personnel or Sam with only Robby and Crowder (though you left out Bell), what I could guarantee you is that if Andy Reid was the coach of the Browns or Jets, Andy Reid would be getting the most out of either team....because coaches have jobs too. 

Yes I agree bad coaching can cause issue BUT talent is talent and the Browns have it.  The Jets don’t.  Yes Bell is here but let’s be honest he hasn’t been the Bell of years past mostly because of Gase but also possibly because he missed an entire year..he hadn’t had that same burst

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

That isnt all that you simply said. Example. 

 

It's clear what you said. On top of the fact that you said that "Cant just blame coaching" when that's not what I did, I simply gave coaching their credit of the blame. 

That wouldnt have been an issue for anyone not looking to place that blame on Mayfield. 

 

The coaches are at fault here as well. Just like Gase is at fault as well for the Jets. 

 

That's what it is. 

I think you totally misunderstood what I was saying.  But whatever it’s fine 

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Just now, 14 in Green said:

You’ve been nothing but fair in this discussion. 

The only thing I’ll add to this talent discussion you and villain are having is that the Browns OL is much worse then last year. As bad as ours and other bad teams with the same issue.

Dorsey gambled and lost on a high pick, and traded a solid starter away. They’ve been a mess.

Appreciate that you are fair too.  I always try to be fair even though I’m a fan of Sam and you are more of a Baker fan which is cool.  Yes the Browns OL has not looked as good.  However I think we can agree that the Jets OL is a horror show lol

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Well, I have those placed bolded. If you want to explain what I misunderstood in those bolded sentences then go for it. But I think that I comprehend this language well enough to know what "Cant just blame coaching" means, when that's not what I did, or "Baker wanted this head coach" as if the decision was Baker's or the outcome of coaching is somehow Baker's fault. 

Im more than willing to just go with the "Baker Mayfield is having a bad sophomore season", as that's pretty damn accurate. 

The extra curricular isnt necessary. 

14 in Green who is also a fan of Baker just said that I have been totally fair.  Which I have been

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For this year at least Lamar and Allen deserve the praise.  They have their teams in the playoff mix.  Who knows maybe next year is the opposite and they have down years while Sam and Baker put everything together and their respective teams are in a better situation 

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4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

First overall draft pick QB who almost won OROY should play better than bottom-fourth in the league when the GM gives him exactly what he wants for coaching and provides strong upgrades to an already talented team. You can spin it to blame Vegas or the HC or now the GM, but ultimately this is exactly how you should build a team around a young QB. 

That’s fair.  I don’t think it’s fair to blame everything on him because he is still a young QB BUT with all that talent around him there shouldn’t be that big of a drop in play no matter who the coach is.  I would say the same thing if Sam was in that situation.  Now like I said yesterday it’s possible Baker is just having a down year.  He could easily bounce back next year but either way I don’t think it’s fair to blame to coach.  I’m not a Fan of Gase but I’m not gonna blame him when Dam makes a bad decision 

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He played a little better against the best team right now. But still a disappointment this season considering all the talent he has around him

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5 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Folks who only bump this thread after losses dont watch the games. 

Too busy making "lets root for Steelers" threads, then quick to claim to be a ride or die Jets fan. 

 

With that said, Freddie Kitchens is the worst coach in the league right now. The Browns had this game but Kitchens literally gave the game away in 4 minutes, 2 minutes before halftime and 2 minutes afterwards. 

 

His game management and redzone design has to be the worst I've seen. 

I felt I was very fair.  I said he played better.  I even stated that the Ravens are just too good right now.  However I’m not gonna excuse his poor play this season on the coach.  If he had zero support and terrible coaching I could understand giving him a break. I understand that you are probably the biggest Mayfield fan here and I honestly respect that.  I don’t think it’s all on Baker but he has been disappointing. Maybe he bounces back next year and it’s just a sophomore slump

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Just now, Villain The Foe said:

I totally agreed with you. You were. What's the problem again? 

You quoted my original post and made it seem like I was just bashing the guy.  

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

No, you didnt bump the thread, nor do you bump it everytime Baker either plays poorly or the Browns as a team lose.

I thought that by you understanding what you "didnt" do, along with how you were indeed honest, that you'd see that I was shooting down folks who are just being a hater, something you didnt do just now. 

My bad for the confusion. You were being honest in your point of view. 

It’s tough to see over the internet what a poster really means sometimes.  I was just confused why my post was highlighted that’s all.  

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Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Understandable. 

Cool.  Also I want to be respectful because I know you are a bigtime Mayfield fan so I wouldn’t pile on.  I admit I don’t like him but he obviously has talent.  Be interesting to see how his third year goes 

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Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Facts. Overall it hasnt been a good year. I dont mind dumping on him when he plays like crap. However, games like this wasnt the case at all. Did you see the final 3 minutes of the 2nd half and the Ravens drive after halftime? 

 

Freddie Kitchens is absolutely clueless when it comes to management. 

Both have been disappointing for sure.  Can I ask you a question, and I don’t mean any disrespect but I’m just curious.  What is it about Mayfield that you really really like?  It’s not that you have been down on Sam you haven’t but obviously you wanted Baker.  Again I’m not trying to be disrespectful it’s just something I’ve been wondering for awhile 

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Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Bro. You can ask questions and not be timid. It really doesnt matter how I or anyone take it. If folks misunderstand, then clarify...like how I did earlier. 👍

 

I really liked Baker at OU. It was clear that he and that offense carried the team since they literally had no defense. Dude got OU to 2 playoff appearances under two head coaches and the best OU defense he had during any of those playoff seasons was ranked 68th in the nation, while all other teams had top 10 defenses. 

I liked how he played during the rosebowl game, even though they lost. I think Georgia allowed less than 20ppg that season, OU put up 48 points and lost in OT. 


He's a really good player in my eyes. Unfortunately for him good QB's coming out of college usually get drafted by crappy franchises with no infrastructure. 

Thanks I appreciate the honesty.  Your last sentence I think is more true for our team however.  I agree Kitchen sucks but there is a lot of talent on that team.  Our team I feel we have our QB but not much else other than Robby and Crowder

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2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im not too sure about that. This is Baker Mayfield's 2nd season, yet he's already played for 3 different head coaches and offensive coordinators. 

He was drafted by a team that went defeated for an entire season, and over a 2 year span won 1 game. There's clear discipline issues with the team. Though I think that Mason Rudolph completely antagonized and initiated that situation, top talents like Myles Garrett has shown that he needs to think about his actions. Same thing with ODB, just look at that senseless unsportsmanlike penalty by ODB in this game on the first drive of the game. They have endless penalties given the lack of discipline. Meanwhile, the Ravens had about 3 penalties that I can remember this game, and I think they were all on defense...in otherwords, they're not stalling offensive drives. 

 

The Browns never play clean football, and they put themselves in situations that limit their options and makes them one-dimensional. There's so many things that I can discuss that directly reflect coaching and management that kills this team before the ball is even in play, such as constant pre-snap penalties.

The Jets dont have much talent outside of Robby and Crowder, however, the difference is they dont kill drives with crazy presnap penalties and unsportsmanlike penalties in order to take away yards you just made on a big catch because you want to act out on the sideline. 

 

There's the game, then there's the game within the game. Robby is an under-appreciated Jets player. Crowder is a nice addition, but didnt really provide us with what we really needed. 

No doubt OBJ has been a major disappointment and learning another playbook is another disadvantage I agree with that.  However I still expected much more out of him even though I’m not a fan.  He has made some really poor decisions that is not just the coaching.  Granted Sam has also made poor decisions I would never dispute that but I think Baker have enough protection/talent around him to do better despite the coach.  But like I said maybe it’s just a down year and he bounces back next year 

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3 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

cos he's so ******* good. end of.

He is very good but having a great team with no weaknesses helps also lol 

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Just now, Losmeister said:

again no playoffs for 2 yrs, 4-5....    now18-3

better team by far yes. 18-3 cos of lamar, yes.

Lamar deserves credit but the overall team does too.  The offensive line along could allow him to do 50 jumping jacks before having to throw or run lol

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Just now, Losmeister said:

the point is that samfans seem to think that sam could do same. no effing way

First of all shouldn’t we all be Sam fans?  Secondly I admit I don’t know but I know Sam would do a lot better if he had more time and a couple more weapons

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2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Im in this thead every week. I never said that I didnt care about the thread. And your partner tagged me, only to make claims as if he didnt care, similar to how you just found your way into this convo...like flies on shyte. 

 

The difference is that I dont pretend. Im sitting here having a good convo with @Jets723 , a man who made it known that he wants to talk and maintain a level of respect regarding the topic. 

 

You guys are in here to sling shyte. 

Appreciate the kind words.  

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Just now, Untouchable said:

Of course

Baker Mayfield is a douchebag, playing like a Bottom 5 QB in the league, and I enjoy poking fun at him. Many of us do.

You just can’t stand the fact that many people dislike him, you’ve hung your hat on him being an amazing QB, and now he’s playing like poop on a stick.

I think the kid has talent as we saw last year but he had been disappointing.  It’s not all on him obviously but he shoulders blame too

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Just now, Losmeister said:

when all my sintsicnts (sic)  said dont even bother watching i bought teh damned package to watchs sam and the jets.

am rooting for him to be worthy of all the draft capital. so far. not worth it. and, to be continued...

Agree to disagree but I respect your opinion 

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Just now, Untouchable said:

You take this stuff very, very seriously lol.

Myself and plenty of others don’t like Baker, think he’s a dickhead, and derive a little entertainment by poking fun at him.

Why does this irritate you so much?

I certainly don’t feel bad for Baker that’s for sure mainly because his personality.  

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36 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

2nd year in a row ending the season on an INT against a division rival. 

 

This was a horrible season for my guy.

 

 

I do appreciate the honesty.  Similar to me I expected Sam to take a big step forward this year and it didn’t happen.  I think both Baker and Sam will have big years in their third season.  I admit I’m not a Baker fan and I admit I’m not sad that he had a bad 2nd season but he does have talent and the Browns have talent around him so they gotta figure a way to make it work 

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Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Next year there can be no excuses for this dude. 

Its one thing to tread water in terms of going from one season to the next, however, Mayfield looks like he sank way down in performance. 

Looking at his passes today it wasnt even the decision making, it was his accuracy. 

He needs to figure that out. 

No argument here.  He has talent around him so there is no excuse why he took such a fall.  

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9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

But Darnold is Better than Baker, right?????

So shouldnt the better QB be raising the level of the players around him????

 

Your hate never makes sense. But when does hate ever make sense? 

 

Darnold has the better overall coaching and better defense. The Browns had arguably the worst coaching staff in the league. The jets Defense was top 10...7th to be exact, the Browns was 22nd. The Jets had a slightly better turnover differential. Those WR's you keep talking about, well OBJ was 2nd in the league in Wide Receiver errors, which makes sense as 12 of Baker's 21 INT's hit the hands of his receivers. 

The Browns have a better Oline, only because they have Joel Bitonio. JC Tretter is a an average C, but their other guard spot as well as their tackles are garbage.

 

Come on man.  I’ve tried to be fair and respectful about Baker because I know you are a hardcore fan of his but he had much more support and a better OLINE and it’s not close.  I agree Kitchens sucks but Gase is not too much better.  Honestly thank god we have Gregg Williams 

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9 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

But I didnt even respond to you, but to Phil. I dont understand what you're talking about. Or was this your way to enter the conversation? 

🤔😁

 

Anyway, please name me this Browns offensive line that the Jets Oline "wasnt even close" to. When you do that, also let me know how many rotations at both tackle spots the Browns had this season. 

 

Two things you said here proves my point. #1. Gase is "not much better", which means that he's better, but furthermore he was able to produce a much more competent offense on critical downs such as on third down and in the redzone in comparison to the Browns. 

 

I've watched all games from both teams, so I have a visual perspective on this that I can speak in greater detail. Question, and please answer this. Have you watched Cleveland games this year. And I mean the games, not the 10 minute YT highlights. If not, then it's safe to say that I have the high road based on what was produced (and seen) on the field. 

#2. You said thank goodness for Gregg Williams. Question, what coach did rookie HC Kitchens have to clean up his messes? 

 

No one. 

 

So, what am I saying that is so out of pocket here? Also, because im bringing up these facts, is that considered not fair and disrespectful? You keep mentioning this. I've told you, you're good brother. 👍

Ok then....

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