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Rex: Baker Mayfield “overrated as hell”

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3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Even when they sucked, he did a good job against Brees in 2013.  He gave up the yards, but not the points.  If they had even a remote answer for Graham that would have been a masterful defensive performance.

Check out Pro Football Reference.  I just started searching for game logs from 2009 and 2010.  Some of those games were defensive works of art.

 

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2 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Just because he can Scheme against a QB doesn't mean he knows how to scout a QB... Come on... playing defense and taking away QBs tendancies and making them feel uncomfortable in the pocket doesn't mean that he knows how to evaluate College or first year QBs and predict future success. This is a horrible argument.

 

What argument did I make that he can scout a QB?

Where did I say he can evaluate college or first year QBs?

I said "from a certain perspective".  But when you can take away a QBs best abilities and shutdown the things he does best aren't you doing some sort of planning for that QB?  Aren't you saying, "I know what he does well, I know what he likes....I'm going to take that away from him and force him to do things I know he's not good at" ?

This board really isn't the place for nuanced conversations is it?  This place is to f'ing binary man....  Fire Gase, Trade Leo, Give Cashman a 5-year extension.  You've got people who love Jamal Adams and people who hate him.  Very few can have a reasonable conversation about him.  This place is getting tough to stomach.

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23 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Ya but how awesome were those constantly blown coverage assignments. We got gashed thru the air every week at one point. I remember getting thrown all over constantly in 2011-14. Two years ain’t enough.

They were horrible.

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30 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said:

And I disagree... preparing for defense against a QB does not mean he can evaluate a QB which he has shown repeatedly throughout his coaching career.

Sure you have intimate knowledge of a QB because you have studied him but IMO that has no bearing to whether the QB is overrated or not and whether Dan Jones is going to be the best QB. 

I don't disagree.  But a guy like Rex is almost the perfect "peer review" guy for a scouting department.  It's like when I run a brainstorming session at work or we have a meeting to kick around ideas....you want different opinions, you want people with a totally different perspective to throw darts at what you think is a good idea.

If I'm a scouting department and 2 months before the Draft I have a tentative list of my QB prospects (say Darnold, Mayfield, Allen, etc.) I'd have someone like Rex come in, study the guys and then I'd ask, "How would you defend each guy?  Who is the easiest to take things away from?  Which QB has that something special that almost no scheme can account for?" etc.

 

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1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

And the Tuna's team took had a lead and then gave up 23 points in the 2nd half and lost 23-10..

I just went to my bag of excuses and had to dig to the bottom to find a good one.  Oh, here it is...

The wind at Mile High took a kickoff and turned it into an unintentional onside kick that Denver recovered.  No coach can plan for that.

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2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

And could end their season this week

It's crazy.  Who would think that the answer to this.......Name a team with a 2018 1st round QB starting under a new offensive-minded head coach that had high expectations heading into the season and now has a losing record....would have two answers in the Jets and Browns.

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1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

Your bag is leaking LOL 14 yd's rushing by the compiler didn't help since Vinny had twice the passing yardage of Elway..:cheers:

Victor Green let "Easy" Ed McCaffrey loose in the secondary on a 3rd down and a couple plays later Terrell Davis was in the end zone.  If you ask me, that was the one play that changed the whole game.  If I remember correctly the Jets were up 10-0 in the 3rd quarter and had all the momentum.  We were just about to force the Broncos to punt again.  A Super Bowl trip was in their grasp....but alas a TD by TD....it's 10-7 and then a kickoff gets hung up in the wind at Mile High and Denver recovers.  The game was over in about a 10 minute span.

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 If he can't make it work with guys like Chubb and Odell Beckham Jr. then who does it take around him for Little Big Mouth to be successful?

 

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2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

 

Wow! It’s almost like Spears was the guy who started the Baker and his Big Mouth thread!

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Just now, joewilly12 said:

They both suck. Want either one nowhere near the NY Jets. 

Luke Falk and a 5th rounder for Baker Mayfield.

Make it happen, Tanny!

 

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2 hours ago, BRONX DUDE said:

Baker Mayfield is my FANTASY FOOTBALL QB and I am OH - 5

What should I do now?

I traded him 2 weeks ago.  For Jameis Winston. :blink:

True story.

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37 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

Mayfield playing the hell out of the game today.  Why no posts????

 

2 minutes ago, Ken Shroy said:

He just threw another terrible pick. jeez.

 

Oh, there will be more posts.

Just wait.

There will....be.......more.

 

jack nicholson yes GIF

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50 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

1.  Lamar Jackson

2.  Sam Darnold

3.  Baker Mayfield

4.  Josh Rosen

5.  Josh Allen

 

^^^ The correct answer on where these QB's rank moving forward (not power rankings).  You're welcome.  

Whoa!

I was with you mostly until Rosen.  He's definitely 5th right now....and may never move higher than that.  Yes, he's in a bad situation, but he got benched for Ryan Fitzpatrick who then breathed a little life into Miami and a comeback against the Redskins.

My list (right now) would be...

1. Lamar Jackson

2. Sam Darnold

3. Josh Allen

4. Baker Mayfield

5. Josh Rosen

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26 minutes ago, southtown24th said:

mayfield sucks and the wheels are coming off.

Thank goodness OBJ only takes boat rides then!

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

It's difficult to evaluate a QB on a team that's actively tanking.  

We KNOW for sure that Allen sucks (and always will suck), which is why he gets the bottom spot.  

How do you know that part?

 

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19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Because QB's with accuracy issues in college and early in their NFL careers never correct those issues over time.  

You're either accurate or you're not, Allen is not, and history has been 100 % against inaccurate QB's.  Thus he'll always have to use other tools at his disposal, like running, to make up for it.  And by running all the time, he's constantly at risk to get his knees crushed.  

He's basically a very poor man's Cam Newton, with better running abilities.  Which sounds nice until you realize Cam only had 2 really good years in the league and his career is being cut short by injuries. 

And I say "very poor man's Cam" because Cam had a 182/102 TD:INT ratio.  Allen's poor accuracy is made worse by his even worse decision-making, which is another element to his game that will never really get better, much like it never got better for Mark Sanchez.  

Good post!  I agree on the accuracy point and I've heard that from at least half a dozen NFL scouts and commentators.  Allen could tweak his accuracy and slightly improve it, but he likely can't take a leap with it.   But I think that's always been known about Allen.  He's not the most accurate guy.  What I've come around on with him is that he can make plays, both with his arm and his legs.  His accuracy and sometimes carelessness with the football (INTs, fumbles) would be maddening to me as a fan if he was the Jets QB.  But I see also see a guy who can overcome some of that stuff with his big arm, big play ability and his running.

I think we can agree on what he is.  A big bodied, big armed QB who can run but will never be more than mediocre as an intermediate/efficient passer.  I also think his running will do to him what it's doing to Cam unfortunately, leading to injuries (we saw the concussion) and shortening a career.  I'd still put him above Rosen in that group of 5 and while guys like Lamar and Darnold are ascending we're seeing Baker regress.

This group of 5 is going to be very, very interesting to watch over the coming years....a lot like the Elway, Marino, O'Brien, Kelly group.

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28 minutes ago, CTM said:

Imagine speaking so confidently about something you clearly know nothing about.

 

 

20191014_131544.jpg

To me, this list looks like a better predictor than most that I've seen.  7 of those 10 QBs have turned out to be undeniably excellent.  There's a boatload of Super Bowl appearances, SB wins and Pro Bowlers there.  The 3 who are questionable are Mayfield (too early to tell IMO), and Mariota and Leftwich who aren't busts but clearly aren't good starters.

Question - It says 1997-2017.  Does that include Baker Mayfield's 2017 college season even as he was drafted in 2018?  I'm assuming so.

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The guy who quite honestly could be the most "overrated as hell" looks to be Freddy Kitchens.  I heard someone on NFL Network this morning reminding everyone that Freddy ascent has been very quick.  He was the Running Backs coach, leading a group of 4 people.  He now has command of 53 men and 3 phases of football on a team with high expectations.  It's looking like he could be in over his head although they did give a Seattle a good run yesterday.

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2 hours ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I’d say you’re definitely holding Baker to a different standard.

The below are a few of the things that he’s been so good at this year. He’s even leading the league in one category, and ahead of a 2-time SB MVP in another!
 

CEF161E4-CB89-43A0-B875-A124F097C6FC.thumb.jpeg.2e07757f12dbf6f90772389c5fbf725f.jpeg

whoa!

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On 11/1/2019 at 5:07 AM, Philc1 said:

Kitchens isn't good but I'd take him over Gase in a heatbeat

Oh, a heatbeat? It sounds like you really like this guy. :P

 

anderson cooper dreamy sigh GIF

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10 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The Mayfield pick on the right looks like Randy Marsh from Southpark. haha 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQIq3VuL9ITLJM0z1_TSnq

Scroll up a few posts in this thread. :D 

 

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6 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Mayfield has really fallen back to earth this year despite talent around him 

 The only reason they elevated Kitchens to head coach was because of Baker. 

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