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Rex: Baker Mayfield “overrated as hell”

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16 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

So your opinion is proactively absolving Baker from criticism for getting 2 coaches fired and the possibility of failing miserably with the coach that he wanted.

How exceptionally on-brand for you.

My opinion doesn't absolve Baker from any criticism folks want to give him. 

If folks want to blame Baker for the Browns firing a coach who won 3 games in 3 years, cool. 

If folks want to blame Baker for the Browns firing an interim coach, that's also cool. 

My opinions have nothing to do with whatever fault folks want to send his way. Nor do I care. You asked the question and got the answer

 

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2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Meh, let me just stop you there. I'd rather not entertain emotions.

Im speaking football. 

Sure you are. 😄

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@mods  please move to the Darnold anxiety manifesting as Baker hate sub web

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I am sure Baker will have many good games in his future but I saw on NFL Network that he is statistically the worst starting QB in the NFL (I dont think they include Falk). Pretty shocking drop off.

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24 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I am sure Baker will have many good games in his future but I saw on NFL Network that he is statistically the worst starting QB in the NFL (I dont think they include Falk). Pretty shocking drop off.

Most of those good games will be vs bad defenses.

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2 hours ago, BRONX DUDE said:

Baker Mayfield is my FANTASY FOOTBALL QB and I am OH - 5

What should I do now?

I traded him 2 weeks ago.  For Jameis Winston. :blink:

True story.

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9 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

You can not compare QB numbers in the NFL today with 2002. This is especially so when the 2002 QB was playing for Marty Shottenheimer.

You can compare anything you like, what you are suggesting is that context is important in such comparisons. That is always true. Nevertheless, your statement doesn’t completely invalidate that these numbers are interesting and do tell a story, especially when you consider in the next year—also under Schottenheimer—Brees had numbers that were much more Drew Brees-ian. 65% completion, 3-to-1 TD-to-INT ratio, +100 QBR. To me the numbers paint a clear picture of a young player for whom it was starting to click, that could also be Mayfield. Sophomore slumps are quite common, almost expected. The big point here is that the jury is still out on Mayfield.

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10 hours ago, Dcat said:

Sure you are. 😄

???🤔

On 10/9/2019 at 4:19 AM, Dcat said:

LOL.   CTM frees the troll!  Troll goes home to bed.  Can't make this up.  

 

On 10/9/2019 at 3:08 AM, Dcat said:

I'll take that as your admission.

Translation of your remarks above:  I am a troll.  You can do nothing about it.

Yes, you are correct about that.

 

19 hours ago, Dcat said:

Lolz.  What delusions!  Nicely done.  Bravo.

 

On 10/9/2019 at 2:58 AM, Dcat said:

I want you to be honest an admit you were a human commercial for Mayfield here.  Otherwise, there's not much more I have to say about Mayfield.  He is what he is so far.  He needs extreme coaching.  Hope he's coachable.  See you in another topic. 

 

On 10/9/2019 at 2:36 AM, Dcat said:

I fervently believe that you should have that freedom. It's yours to take advantage of.  If you want to make it a commercial for an opposing QB, then you are a troll.  Trolls are allowed here.

I'm just amazed that you are in abject denial of your promotion of Mayfield on a Jets message board.  Really?  Who in the world do you think you are fooling?

 

On 10/9/2019 at 2:26 AM, Dcat said:

Because you are being dishonest, IMO.  You were literally a messageboard billboard for Baker and now tht he is awful you are trying to deny it.  Lolza

 

On 10/9/2019 at 2:22 AM, Dcat said:

for pete's sake.... your f'ing avatar was Baker. Probabbly your sig too.   Now that he sucks pretty bad, you are trying to deny it.   Just shut up already.  You are fooling no one.

 

On 10/9/2019 at 1:43 AM, Dcat said:

Proof: 

For most of 2019, your avatar was Baker Mayfield.  There is no stronger way to promote, market, or endorse something on a message board than to put it in your avatar or sig.   You were a walking commercial for Baker Mayfield.  

 

On 10/8/2019 at 11:20 PM, Dcat said:

It was more than discussion.  It has been a an 18 month commercial for Baker Mayfield.  Quite different from what you claim above. Stop distorting what you did.  Just move on, since you are a "Jets fan", that should be no trouble for you.  Especially because we all see that Mayfield is really more hype than talent thus far.

 

On 10/8/2019 at 7:07 PM, Dcat said:

I'll never understand why @Villain The Foe did all this Mayfield promotion for the past year and a half on a NY Jets message board.  Not only that, but with the expectation that it wouldn't be received poorly.  Too funny.  

You're either a Jets fan or not.  Pumping up another teams' QB prospect for over a year here kind of says it all.  Not buying his line that the jets are his "favorite" team and Mayfield is his favorite player.  A sane person does not flaunt that on an opposing team's message board.  

But that's OUR Villain.  Every message board I guess needs its loonies.

giphy.gif

Its clear what your entire purpose is in this thread. You can take whatever you want out of context in order to save face from this fact. However, the bottomline is, you're in threads to seek out and relentlessly talk about posters because they've effected your emotions with avatars when sitting in front of your computer/phone over the past 18 months, along with continuously showing antagonistic traits when it's clear I've stopped responding to your personal quotes a couple comments back already. And yet you still are obsessed with quoting me even to the point of now picking up on every other side convo outside of yours that I've stopped responding to in order to have that reason to further attention whore. These are literally obsessive/antagonistic traits, especially after this has already been addressed to you that im not interested in your personal interest, opinion or overall conversations when the topic is "me". Im not saying you cant say anything at all about me, what im saying is that "You've said it, days ago", and im sorry that the response from me wasnt what you anticipated, but its done, and I've asked numerous times now that you move on from making this a personal thing.

 

Should I PM you and tell this to you privately or something? Is there something you need to get off your chest in order to act like a rational person again that understands when someone says to you to get back to the topic and that he's not interested in your off-topic tirades with the intention to either hijack or derail the topic of conversation or because of your 18 months of butthurt which I clearly didnt know I was doing to you?

Im in a Mayfield thread trying my best to talk about Mayfield, and not run after a loss like some folks do when he wins, but instead face the music related to the topic, yet all some folks can do is talk about Villain, and not about the purpose of the thread. 

 

Well, here's a ton of proof above showing that you're clearly not interested in the topic, but talking about me. That's more than what an Avatar could ever do... Maybe you should go about your business since you're making yourself look more childish with this attempt at getting under my skin. I dont care about your feelings. You've expressed them already. However, I would like to keep this thread clean from the constant vomit so I and others who are interested in the topic can actually enjoy it without the constant derailment because folks cant control their terrible feelings for a person and their avatar. 

I've inadvertently gotten you emotional, for that I apologize. With that said, get a grip on your feelings already and get back to the topic of the thread...or find the thread that you're actually interested in because it's clear your interest here is about a poster and not the thread. 

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@mods .. please move to the Obsessed with VillianTheFoe  sub forum

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I’m definitely not reading 17 pages of this, but could someone who’s followed along let me know if we’ve concluded that Baker’s awesome and it’s all the coaches fault, or is that just what we do with our players?

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5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

???🤔

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

giphy.gif

Its clear what your entire purpose is in this thread. You can take whatever you want out of context in order to save face from this fact. However, the bottomline is, you're in threads to seek out and relentlessly talk about posters because they've effected your emotions with avatars when sitting in front of your computer/phone over the past 18 months, along with continuously showing antagonistic traits when it's clear I've stopped responding to your personal quotes a couple comments back already. And yet you still are obsessed with quoting me even to the point of now picking up on every other side convo outside of yours that I've stopped responding to in order to have that reason to further attention whore. These are literally obsessive/antagonistic traits, especially after this has already been addressed to you that im not interested in your personal interest, opinion or overall conversations when the topic is "me". Im not saying you cant say anything at all about me, what im saying is that "You've said it, days ago", and im sorry that the response from me wasnt what you anticipated, but its done, and I've asked numerous times now that you move on from making this a personal thing.

 

Should I PM you and tell this to you privately or something? Is there something you need to get off your chest in order to act like a rational person again that understands when someone says to you to get back to the topic and that he's not interested in your off-topic tirades with the intention to either hijack or derail the topic of conversation or because of your 18 months of butthurt which I clearly didnt know I was doing to you?

Im in a Mayfield thread trying my best to talk about Mayfield, and not run after a loss like some folks do when he wins, but instead face the music related to the topic, yet all some folks can do is talk about Villain, and not about the purpose of the thread. 

 

Well, here's a ton of proof above showing that you're clearly not interested in the topic, but talking about me. That's more than what an Avatar could ever do... Maybe you should go about your business since you're making yourself look more childish with this attempt at getting under my skin. I dont care about your feelings. You've expressed them already. However, I would like to keep this thread clean from the constant vomit so I and others who are interested in the topic can actually enjoy it without the constant derailment because folks cant control their terrible feelings for a person and their avatar. 

I've inadvertently gotten you emotional, for that I apologize. With that said, get a grip on your feelings already and get back to the topic of the thread...or find the thread that you're actually interested in because it's clear your interest here is about a poster and not the thread. 

wow, so happy you took the time.  It's a little long, so I'll add this to my monthly reading list.  LOL.  Sorry you have no life that you insist on trolling your Mayfield commercial here day in and day out for the past year. 

 The troll who won't admit he is a troll.  Go Mayfield!  Rah rah.  

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52 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I’m definitely not reading 17 pages of this, but could someone who’s followed along let me know if we’ve concluded that Baker’s awesome and it’s all the coaches fault, or is that just what we do with our players?

I think most people have concluded (all but one) that Mayfield is not what Cleveland thought he'd be.  At least not yet and that he is no lock to live up to his billing.  But so far?  Negatory.  Time will tell.

 

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6 hours ago, jgb said:

You can compare anything you like, what you are suggesting is that context is important in such comparisons. That is always true. Nevertheless, your statement doesn’t completely invalidate that these numbers are interesting and do tell a story, especially when you consider in the next year—also under Schottenheimer—Brees had numbers that were much more Drew Brees-ian. 65% completion, 3-to-1 TD-to-INT ratio, +100 QBR. To me the numbers paint a clear picture of a young player for whom it was starting to click, that could also be Mayfield. Sophomore slumps are quite common, almost expected. The big point here is that the jury is still out on Mayfield.

Agreed. Just like you can compare a duck-billed platypus to GN-z11, you can also compare Brees playing in the 2002 version of the NFL to Mayfield playing in the 2018 version of the NFL. And both comparisons are virtually worthless.

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17 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Agreed. Just like you can compare a duck-billed platypus to GN-z11, you can also compare Brees playing in the 2002 version of the NFL to Mayfield playing in the 2018 version of the NFL. And both comparisons are virtually worthless.

I guess you’re also not a fan of the entire field of comparative history. Interesting things can be learned by comparing vastly different things: Ancient Roman legal system versus Colonial British legal system, as one of 100,000,000 examples. Don’t think the NFL in 2002 and 2019 are as different as those two.

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9 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I think most people have concluded (all but one) that Mayfield is not what Cleveland thought he'd be.  At least not yet and that he is no lock to live up to his billing.  But so far?  Negatory.  Time will tell.

  

Surprising.  As we've seen Mayfield perform well with another coach, and yet, we absolve our players of blame for their own ineptitude, despite never succeeding before or after, with different coaching.   Very, very interesting.

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29 minutes ago, Dcat said:

wow, so happy you took the time.  It's a little long, so I'll add this to my monthly reading list.  LOL.  Sorry you have no life that you insist on trolling your Mayfield commercial here day in and day out for the past year. 

 The troll who won't admit he is a troll.  Go Mayfield!  Rah rah.  

I've said for years on this forum that I troll. Maybe you never caught that since it didnt strike your obsession. 

However, there's a clear difference between being a troll based on tongue in cheek nonsense surrounding football, and acting like an obsessed stalker to posters on the forum that you didnt create, dont own, nor set the rules for. 

There's also a difference, atleast I thought,  between 3 paragraphs and a monthly read. Three paragraphs isnt even a half chapter, so that says alot about your reading habits if anything. Not that it concerns me either way. 

You're becoming a  poster who's displaying the ability to personally target other posters, which also isnt what trolls do, but what stalkers do. I've been very patient with this stupidity, so Im going to ask you again to stop referencing me and reference the topic, as per the nature of this forum. 

I wont ask again. 

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10 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I am sure Baker will have many good games in his future but I saw on NFL Network that he is statistically the worst starting QB in the NFL (I dont think they include Falk). Pretty shocking drop off.

I'm so happy that we dodged this bullet. If the draft fell the way it should have we would have Faker full of crap Baker instead of Sam. It's funny that his supporters somehow try to tie Bakers dismal performance - on a talent loaded team - to doubts about Sam, who was the highest rated QB the final four games last season playing on a team built by Idzak and Macc.

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8 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Surprising.  As we've seen Mayfield perform well with another coach, and yet, we absolve our players of blame for their own ineptitude, despite never succeeding before or after, with different coaching.   Very, very interesting.

Freddie Kitchens might just suck he started 2018 as a RB coach for goodness sake

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3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Surprising.  As we've seen Mayfield perform well with another coach, and yet, we absolve our players of blame for their own ineptitude, despite never succeeding before or after, with different coaching.   Very, very interesting.

Do we? I mean, I don't recall seeing one Jets fan absolve Fitzpatrick in year 2 here.

People need to look at all factors. saying Gase is terrible seems premature considering the state of the roster and adding in the injuries.

At the same time, Bowles was here for 4 years and had 3 OC's in his last 3 years, maybe 4th time was a charm for him?

Coaching matters, a lot. Talent matters, a lot. Having the right players for the systems matters, a lot. Developing players matters, a lot.

When things are as bad as things have been for the Jets for the last several years, it takes a combination of things to get to this level of awful.

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3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

I wont ask again. 

good.  Because nothing has changed.  You are a walking billboard for an opposing team's QB here on a Jets Board.  You've been promoting him here for a long time now, yet you deny it.  Maybe you can fool yourself, but not others, pal.   Go Mayfield!  Rah-rah for Baker.  

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2 minutes ago, Dcat said:

good.  Because nothing has changed.  You are a walking billboard for an opposing team's QB here on a Jets Board.  You've been promoting him here for a long time now, yet you deny it.  Maybe you can fool yourself, but not others, pal.   Go Mayfield!  Rah-rah for Baker.  

You sure you want it this way? 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, jgb said:

Freddie Kitchens might just suck he started 2018 as a RB coach for goodness sake

Excuses are only relegated to Jets players. 

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4 minutes ago, Dcat said:

good.  Because nothing has changed.  You are a walking billboard for an opposing team's QB here on a Jets Board.  You've been promoting him here for a long time now, yet you deny it.  Maybe you can fool yourself, but not others, pal.   Go Mayfield!  Rah-rah for Baker.  

Just as valid: why does it bother you so much?

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32 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I think most people have concluded (all but one) that Mayfield is not what Cleveland thought he'd be.  At least not yet and that he is no lock to live up to his billing.  But so far?  Negatory.  Time will tell.

 

I liked Mayfield coming our of college. I had him as my #2 behind Darnold. What put him behind Darnold? System, temperment, and age. I think last year he proved he was not a product of the system at Oklahoma. And while I continue to love his story of walking on at two D1 schools and winning the starting job and then eventually the Heisman, my concern was that he likes to be the underdog and prove doubters wrong. As the first pick in the draft, whose he gonna prove wrong? He still likes to go after his doubters -- Cowherd and Rex, but he's all over TV and everyone has sung his praises. Actually, a sh*t turd of a season this year may do his career some good.

Ultimately, he is who he is.  He loves the spotlight and will work his ass off to get into the spotlight, but once he gets there he stops working as hard because he feels he has "arrived". I think to meet his potential he needs a HC who has a bigger personality than his.

Career-wise, I think he may end up being more like Jeff George than Drew Brees.

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15 minutes ago, jgb said:

I guess you’re also not a fan of the entire field of comparative history. Interesting things can be learned by comparing vastly different things: Ancient Roman legal system versus Colonial British legal system, as one of 100,000,000 examples. Don’t think the NFL in 2002 and 2019 are as different as those two things.

I beg to differ. Comparing QB numbers in the NFL from 2002 to 2019 is like comparing baseball homerun numbers for particular player in 2019 and 1992, when the MLB totals were 6,776 to 3,038. 

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7 hours ago, King P said:

I like Baker, but this has me howling

Speaking of howling have you seen Kyle Vander Esch howling that kid is a helluva LB wish we could draft them like that. 

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11 minutes ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

Do we? I mean, I don't recall seeing one Jets fan absolve Fitzpatrick in year 2 here.

People need to look at all factors. saying Gase is terrible seems premature considering the state of the roster and adding in the injuries.

 At the same time, Bowles was here for 4 years and had 3 OC's in his last 3 years, maybe 4th time was a charm for him?

Coaching matters, a lot. Talent matters, a lot. Having the right players for the systems matters, a lot. Developing players matters, a lot.

When things are as bad as things have been for the Jets for the last several years, it takes a combination of things to get to this level of awful.

Of course not Fitzpatrick, he's an older hold-the-fort veteran, whom we have no emotional attachment to believing is good.  I'm talking about all of our draft picks.  It was Bowles's fault that Leonard Williams wasn't good, yet, here we are again.  And, this is not a defense of Bowles, he's just the most recent coach we blame for the fact that we don't have good football players on our team.

It may take a lot of factors to get to this level, but I'm comfortable with the notion that if I replace the players with better ones, the coaching will largely figure itself out.

Case-and-point, Brian Schottenhiemer.  Currently he's the offensive coordinator of the 7th ranked offense by yards and points in the league.  Did he suddenly learn how to coach?  Or, maybe, just maybe, Russel Wilson et al are meaningfully better than what he was working with when he was here.  Not to mention his successes w/ Brees and Rivers.

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Just now, TeddEY said:

 

Case-and-point, Brian Schottenhiemer.  Currently he's the offensive coordinator of the 7th ranked offense by yards and points in the league.  Did he suddenly learn how to coach?  Or, maybe, just maybe, Russel Wilson et al are meaningfully better than what he was working with when he was here.  Not to mention his successes w/ Brees and Rivers.

Plus, Schott's offensive plan is still the same: run first.  Only now he has a QB who can profit from that strategy and it is working.

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Even the Browns recognize that Mayfield is generally disliked. 

Browns OL knows opponents “want a piece of” Baker Mayfield

Posted by Darin Gantt on October 10, 2019, 6:45 AM EDT
 
gettyimages-1059189434-e1570704294478.jp
Getty Images

The Browns are coming to realize that Baker Mayfield brings this out of people.

Which is fine and part of their personality. But there are still people who have to try to keep him upright against motivated foes.

Via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Browns guard Joel Bitonio said he knows he has to prepare for extra effort at times.

“It’s one of those things that people, they see Baker’s name, they see him the media, they see some of his quotes and things of that nature, and they want a piece of him,’’ Bitonio said. “And it’s one of those things that we’re going to expect and we’re ready for.

“If that’s the way they motivate themselves to play, I just don’t know how someone can play harder. From my perspective, I don’t know how I could go out on the field and be like, ‘This Baker Mayfield guy did something, so I’m going to play harder today.’”

Monday’s loss to the 49ers provided a coupe of examples, from Nick Bosa planting an imaginary flag after a sack, as payback from a two-year-old college snub. Then came the Richard Sherman handshake-gate, in which a perceived slight became a massive story for a day.

“I feel like you’re already at a point as a professional where you’re playing your hardest, at least I hope so,’’ Bitonio said. “But maybe some guys aren’t at that level. Maybe some guys need it for motivation or to inspire them to do that, but as a professional, I feel like you should be motivated to go out and play. But obviously some guys are using it because we’ve heard it multiple times where teams are saying, ‘Yeah, we want to be motivated by this.’ And that’s what they’re using, so we’ve got to step up to the plate ourselves.”

Mayfield’s on his side, so Bitonio doesn’t mind. But the fact other guys are bringing their best because of Mayfield’s big personality makes his job harder sometimes, as well.

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5 hours ago, slats said:

Even the Browns recognize that Mayfield is generally disliked. 

Browns OL knows opponents “want a piece of” Baker Mayfield

Posted by Darin Gantt on October 10, 2019, 6:45 AM EDT
 
gettyimages-1059189434-e1570704294478.jp
Getty Images

The Browns are coming to realize that Baker Mayfield brings this out of people.

Which is fine and part of their personality. But there are still people who have to try to keep him upright against motivated foes.

Via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer, Browns guard Joel Bitonio said he knows he has to prepare for extra effort at times.

“It’s one of those things that people, they see Baker’s name, they see him the media, they see some of his quotes and things of that nature, and they want a piece of him,’’ Bitonio said. “And it’s one of those things that we’re going to expect and we’re ready for.

“If that’s the way they motivate themselves to play, I just don’t know how someone can play harder. From my perspective, I don’t know how I could go out on the field and be like, ‘This Baker Mayfield guy did something, so I’m going to play harder today.’”

Monday’s loss to the 49ers provided a coupe of examples, from Nick Bosa planting an imaginary flag after a sack, as payback from a two-year-old college snub. Then came the Richard Sherman handshake-gate, in which a perceived slight became a massive story for a day.

“I feel like you’re already at a point as a professional where you’re playing your hardest, at least I hope so,’’ Bitonio said. “But maybe some guys aren’t at that level. Maybe some guys need it for motivation or to inspire them to do that, but as a professional, I feel like you should be motivated to go out and play. But obviously some guys are using it because we’ve heard it multiple times where teams are saying, ‘Yeah, we want to be motivated by this.’ And that’s what they’re using, so we’ve got to step up to the plate ourselves.”

Mayfield’s on his side, so Bitonio doesn’t mind. But the fact other guys are bringing their best because of Mayfield’s big personality makes his job harder sometimes, as well.

This is true. Baker had Bosa hot under the collar for the last 2 years, to the point that Bosa couldnt even stop himself from planting flags...things players do at the college level. 

 

At bare minimum, there's alot of entertainment value here. However, Baker will need to eventually be so dominant that folks will just have to accept it. If not, its going to be a long career for him and a bleek time for me on the board. 

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