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Rex: Baker Mayfield “overrated as hell”

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Allen is like Mark Sanchez.  He takes away from what Buffalo can do rather than adds to it.  Thus I have him below Josh Rosen, since he's been stuck with 2 horrible teams to start his career.  It's a "devil you don't know" vs. a "devil you know".

I don't need "credibility" to make this point.  I have history on my side.  No QB with a statistical profile in college like Allen had has EVER had success in the pros.  And to his point, he's looked as bad as advertised.  He's a running back who sometimes completes passes.  

Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion, even if it's as poor as this one is.

So at least you have that.

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5 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I'm giving Allen a lot of credit for his play this year... I love a QB who ups his game in the 4th quarter, and one who wins. Granted, he isn't the one man show Jackson has been, but he's had a very good year so far, and is trending upwards. It's hard to ask for more from a second year guy.

Wow, just wow.  In just 2/5 games this year, the Bills offense has put up 20+ points.  And those were against really bad defenses (Giants, Bengals).  Think that's sustainable in the modern NFL?  It's easy to "up your game" in the 4th quarter when your defense gives you the ball back time and again.  The arguments you're making for Allen are the exact same ones people were making for Mark Sanchez.  

Your entire argument for Allen is based on rhetoric rather than things that actually matter when it comes to your QB.  Can he throw out of the pocket?  No.  Is a pure running QB sustainable in today's  NFL?  Nope.  Is a 56.1 career completion % with 15 TD/19 INT (5/7 this season) acceptable?  Not at all.  

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2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion, even if it's as poor as this one is.

So at least you have that.

Rather than attacking my "credibility" and avoiding what I'm arguing, maybe make a case for Allen that is based on tangible points related to his ability as a QB?  

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1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

The big deal:

Cmp       Att          Cmp%   Yds         TD           Int          Rate       Sk           Yds         Y/A         AY/A

 

23           32           71.88     338         2              1              113.8     2              12           10.56     10.41

 

22           37           59.46     249         1              3              54.9        0              0              6.73        3.62

 

 

Yeah but stats are dumb.  Where's your stat for "moxy"?  That's what I want to see.  

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4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I'm giving Allen a lot of credit for his play this year... I love a QB who ups his game in the 4th quarter, and one who wins. Granted, he isn't the one man show Jackson has been, but he's had a very good year so far and is trending upwards. It's hard to ask for more from a second year guy.

Allen has played one good team this year and looked terrible in that game. He's 29th in passer rating in the NFL this year, ahead of Daniel Jones (another guy you like, right?), Cam Newton, Baker Mayfield, and Josh Rosen. He's slightly improved over a rough rookie season, but not by much. He's been less effective as a runner this year, too, which is something to watch going forward. Teams definitely want to corral him and make him throw, and they want to do that for a very good reason. 

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7 minutes ago, CTM said:

I don't get your point. Mayfield has been poo this year after having a very good rookie year. We are enough games in this season that last year matters less when projecting him going forward.

Mayfield is an ass and I'm glad he's stinking up the field. I have no investment in him being good or even bad really. 

This is exactly my point. So you trying to win upvotes with Villain by posting things like the below multiple times throughout the thread is a head-scratcher.

Mayfield being an ass and also being a limited football player has nothing to do with Darnold, no matter how much Villain and 14 try to make it, and no matter how many times you support it.

1 hour ago, CTM said:

They are all Darnold threads. If our QB was an established 8 year vet there wouldn't be any Mayfield threads

 

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Yeah but stats are dumb.  Where's your stat for "moxy"?  That's what I want to see.  

Baker is Michael Jordan levels of moxy. The problem for him is that he's Baker levels of good on a football field.

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6 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

The big deal:

Cmp       Att          Cmp%   Yds         TD           Int          Rate       Sk           Yds         Y/A         AY/A

 

23           32           71.88     338         2              1              113.8     2              12           10.56     10.41

 

22           37           59.46     249         1              3              54.9        0              0              6.73        3.62

 

So similar

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4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

This is exactly my point. So you trying to win upvotes with Villain by posting things like the below multiple times throughout the thread is a head-scratcher.

Mayfield being an ass and also being a limited football player has nothing to do with Darnold, no matter how much Villain and 14 try to make it, and no matter how many times you support it.

 

I don't understand your fixation with upvotes and butt fumbles but my post had nothing to do with either.

The fixation on this board with Mayfield and now Daniel Jones has a ton to do with Darnold. I do not believe there would be all these long threads on these guys if Matt Ryan was our QB.

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1 minute ago, CTM said:

The fixation on this board with Mayfield and now Daniel Jones has a ton to do with Darnold. I do not believe there would be all these long threads on these guys if Matt Ryan was our QB.

Of course you're correct, but its not exactly a profound point.  The curious thing is the obsession coming from the Baker defenders.  After all, we never had a chance to draft Mayfield in the first place.  

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wow.  I know I've been away for a bit, but are people actually talking about whether Baker and JOSH FRIGGIN ALLEN are any good?  Josh Allen?  not the pass rusher from Jaguars, but the QB?  wow.  the guy is a turnover machine that gets saved by a great defense.  makes Mark Sanchez look good.  difference between him and Mark was at least Mark got to the AFC championship game twice.  

and we all know the deal with Baker.  it's his mouth; it's his attitude.  when you are a complete punk, and then don't play well, it gets magnified.  he's playing pi$$ poor right now with a TON of weapons, but I still think he is legit.  it's just things get magnified because he's just not a good dude.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Wow, just wow.  In just 2/5 games this year, the Bills offense has put up 20+ points.  And those were against really bad defenses (Giants, Bengals).  Think that's sustainable in the modern NFL?  It's easy to "up your game" in the 4th quarter when your defense gives you the ball back time and again.  The arguments you're making for Allen are the exact same ones people were making for Mark Sanchez.  

Your entire argument for Allen is based on rhetoric rather than things that actually matter when it comes to your QB.  Can he throw out of the pocket?  No.  Is a pure running QB sustainable in today's  NFL?  Nope.  Is a 56.1 career completion % with 15 TD/19 INT (5/7 this season) acceptable?  Not at all.  

You're just flailing around here, LOL. Pure emotional speculation. Yesterday was the best game I've ever seen Darnold play, and the Jets scored 24 points, LOL.

You have Rosen ahead of Allen, which as I said, destroys all your credibility. Last season and this offseason when I said Jackson was going to have a chance to be a really good QB, you laughed and said he was an injury waiting to happen. Now you have him first, LOL.

Darnold ahead of Mayfield is based on what exactly? Certainly not last year, that wasn't even close. Is it on this year? Darnold has played two games, one not good (insert mono explanation here), and one very good. So if you're moving him up ahead of Mayfield and Allen based on one game, I think I'm done here.

 I'm done, 80. I can't argue with your emotions, or your speculations. They're yours to keep, hold on to them..

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Of course you're correct, but its not exactly a profound point.  The curious thing is the obsession coming from the Baker defenders.  After all, we never had a chance to draft Mayfield in the first place.  

I agree its rather obvious but it seems lost on some.

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2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

You're just flailing around here, LOL. Pure emotional speculation. Yesterday was the best game I've ever seen Darnold play, and the Jets scored 24 points, LOL.

You have Rosen ahead of Allen, which as I said, destroys all your credibility. Last season and this offseason when I said Jackson was going to have a chance to be a really good QB, you laughed and said he was an injury waiting to happen. Now you have him first, LOL.

Darnold ahead of Mayfield is based on what exactly? Certainly not last year, that wasn't even close. Is it on this year? Darnold has played two games, one not good (insert mono explanation here), and one very good. So if you're moving him up ahead of Mayfield and Allen based on one game, I think I'm done here.

 I'm done, 80. I can't argue with your emotions, or your speculations. They're yours to keep, hold on to them..

 

Not one sentence in this post disputing my argument.  Not a single one.  

Yes, my position on Lamar has shifted based on performance and his ability to avoid the big hits.  As long as he keeps doing that its impossible to keep him out of the # 1 spot.  But you forget that even early on this season I had Lamar over both Allen and Rosen.  

My argument on Allen has nothing to do with emotion.  Mayfield, sure, because he's a douche.  But not Allen.  

Still waiting for your tangible points on why Allen belongs higher than # 5 on my list.  

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Of course you're correct, but its not exactly a profound point.  The curious thing is the obsession coming from the Baker defenders.  After all, we never had a chance to draft Mayfield in the first place.  

And yet it's the Mayfield haters who show those insecurities by starting these threads.

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Just now, 14 in Green said:

And yet it's the Mayfield haters who show those insecurities by starting these threads.

Don't know about you but i'm sick and tired of seeing his name on the top of the discussion board every time I come here. 

Like Baker Mayfield. go root for the Browns. 

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2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

And yet it's the Mayfield haters who show those insecurities by starting these threads.

Maybe because Villain spent the entire offseason expressing his love for Baker and the Browns on a Jets board?  Probably something to do with it.  

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7 minutes ago, CTM said:

The fixation on this board with Mayfield and now Daniel Jones has a ton to do with Darnold. I do not believe there would be all these long threads on these guys if Matt Ryan was our QB.

Isn't this just normal, though? Darnold was one of five QBs taken in the first round in 2018, and the team that shares a stadium with the Jets just took a QB high in 2019. Of course there will be comparisons. How many years were Brady and Manning fans discussing who was the better QB? 

This will be a subject around here for a very long time. 

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50 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

1.  Lamar Jackson

2.  Sam Darnold

3.  Baker Mayfield

4.  Josh Rosen

5.  Josh Allen

 

^^^ The correct answer on where these QB's rank moving forward (not power rankings).  You're welcome.  

Whoa!

I was with you mostly until Rosen.  He's definitely 5th right now....and may never move higher than that.  Yes, he's in a bad situation, but he got benched for Ryan Fitzpatrick who then breathed a little life into Miami and a comeback against the Redskins.

My list (right now) would be...

1. Lamar Jackson

2. Sam Darnold

3. Josh Allen

4. Baker Mayfield

5. Josh Rosen

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26 minutes ago, southtown24th said:

mayfield sucks and the wheels are coming off.

Thank goodness OBJ only takes boat rides then!

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14 minutes ago, slats said:

Allen has played one good team this year and looked terrible in that game. He's 29th in passer rating in the NFL this year, ahead of Daniel Jones (another guy you like, right?), Cam Newton, Baker Mayfield, and Josh Rosen. He's slightly improved over a rough rookie season, but not by much. He's been less effective as a runner this year, too, which is something to watch going forward. Teams definitely want to corral him and make him throw, and they want to do that for a very good reason. 

How does this using the QB ranking thing work exactly? People got upset with me for bringing up Darnold's '18 ranking in discussions last offseason. With others, like Allen and Jones it's a valid thing though?

I'm not knocking Darnold, I'm rooting for him to do well. I'd love to see him reel of 8 or nine wins this year. I just don't see how doing that and acknowledging that Mayfield, Allen and Jones, hell even a Kyler Murray or Luke Jackson are showing a lot of good things also bothers so many people. 

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26 minutes ago, slats said:

Allen has played one good team this year and looked terrible in that game. He's 29th in passer rating in the NFL this year, ahead of Daniel Jones (another guy you like, right?), Cam Newton, Baker Mayfield, and Josh Rosen. He's slightly improved over a rough rookie season, but not by much. He's been less effective as a runner this year, too, which is something to watch going forward. Teams definitely want to corral him and make him throw, and they want to do that for a very good reason. 

Posters have a hard time realize that just because they like the way a QB plays doesn't necessarily means hes a good QB. Just means they like them, nothing wrong with that, but doesn't make them any better than they are. Their play will determine that. Period. 

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8 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

You have Rosen ahead of Allen, which as I said, destroys all your credibility. Last season and this offseason when I said Jackson was going to have a chance to be a really good QB, you laughed and said he was an injury waiting to happen. Now you have him first, LOL.

Have to wonder where those two guys would rank if the Bills drafted Rosen and the Cards drafted Allen. Rosen left one worst team in the league for another. The Bills have a solid team around Allen, and they're invested in him (no one's invested in Rosen, who'll almost certainly be on his third team in three years next season). 

Jackson has been great, but he also went to the best team, with the best coaching, and that stability shines thru. I think he'd look a lot different on the Jets/Cards/fish. 

8 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Darnold ahead of Mayfield is based on what exactly? Certainly not last year, that wasn't even close. Is it on this year? Darnold has played two games, one not good (insert mono explanation here), and one very good. So if you're moving him up ahead of Mayfield and Allen based on one game, I think I'm done here.

For the record, I wouldn't rate Darnold yet. He's missed more games than he's played this season. I think it's fair to give him an incomplete. 

That said, from the last month of last season thru yesterday, Darnold has played much better football than Baker Mayfield with a much worse team around him. I think Freddie Kitchens is probably one & done as a head coach (if he makes it that far), and back to coaching RBs in 2020. He's been terrible. Mayfield could still easily bounce back when the Browns improve the coaching staff. 

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10 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

How does this using the QB ranking thing work exactly? People got upset with me for bringing up Darnold's '18 ranking in discussions last offseason. With others, like Allen and Jones it's a valid thing though?

I'm not knocking Darnold, I'm rooting for him to do well. I'd love to see him reel of 8 or nine wins this year. I just don't see how doing that and acknowledging that Mayfield, Allen and Jones, hell even a Kyler Murray or Luke Jackson are showing a lot of good things also bothers so many people. 

QB rating is imperfect, to say the least, but what other statistical measures do we have? The Jets QB currently is rated 20+ points higher than Allen, and 30+ higher than Mayfield. Darnold has the smaller sample size, which is why I'm hesitant to say anything definitive at this point, but I'm encouraged. Allen has played crap teams while the Browns have had a tough schedule so far. Wouldn't surprise me if Mayfield moves back ahead of Allen by the end of the season. 

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Just now, slats said:

QB rating is imperfect, to say the least, but what other statistical measures do we have? The Jets QB currently is rated 20+ points higher than Allen, and 30+ higher than Mayfield. Darnold has the smaller sample size, which is why I'm hesitant to say anything definitive at this point, but I'm encouraged. Allen has played crap teams while the Browns have had a tough schedule so far. Wouldn't surprise me if Mayfield moves back ahead of Allen by the end of the season. 

I like dvoa because it controls for level of opposition and does a better job measuring plays that contribute to wins 

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12 minutes ago, slats said:

Have to wonder where those two guys would rank if the Bills drafted Rosen and the Cards drafted Allen. Rosen left one worst team in the league for another. The Bills have a solid team around Allen, and they're invested in him (no one's invested in Rosen, who'll almost certainly be on his third team in three years next season). 

Jackson has been great, but he also went to the best team, with the best coaching, and that stability shines thru. I think he'd look a lot different on the Jets/Cards/fish. 

For the record, I wouldn't rate Darnold yet. He's missed more games than he's played this season. I think it's fair to give him an incomplete. 

That said, from the last month of last season thru yesterday, Darnold has played much better football than Baker Mayfield with a much worse team around him. I think Freddie Kitchens is probably one & done as a head coach (if he makes it that far), and back to coaching RBs in 2020. He's been terrible. Mayfield could still easily bounce back when the Browns improve the coaching staff. 

Good stuff.

I wonder the same about guys like Rosen and Allen. That's why I mentioned in the post where I ranked these guys today that I thought Allen was on the perfect team, and the right city. Rosen, has been dealt the worst hand imaginable for a young QB.

As for your second reply, I agree with the Darnold incomplete grade, I alluded to that when I gave him credit for a terrific game yesterday, and then said it's good to see him in the discussion again.

I'm going to throw one more thing in here. I know it's childish, but I can't resist. I have to go run some errands. Before I do though, I just want to tell @DRJETS to keep bringing the stupid. He's turning it into an art form.

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28 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

you trying to win upvotes with Villain by posting things like the below multiple times throughout the thread is a head-scratcher.

21 minutes ago, CTM said:

I don't understand your fixation with upvotes and butt fumbles but my post had nothing to do with either.

No fixation with upvotes or buttfumbles. Just wondering why you're trying to hard to get villain to like you, is all. Playing the JN equivalent of grab ass might add to your experience?

image.png.10a0d7ad5102f32f9657dc9c48110473.png

image.png.4dc4eddc1cf456e4124eab1df53d4545.png

image.png.1005dfbd631c9065b4965b5ca88851f5.png

 

30 minutes ago, CTM said:

IThe fixation on this board with Mayfield and now Daniel Jones has a ton to do with Darnold. I do not believe there would be all these long threads on these guys if Matt Ryan was our QB.

29 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Of course you're correct, but its not exactly a profound point. 

Disagree. The fixation on this board with Mayfield stems from one poster. Most of us probably would just say he's an ass and sucks at football and move on like we do for a lot of other QBs. Pissing on Baker is more about taking victory laps because some of us didn't appreciate the constant spamming over the last two years.

The fixation on Jones has more to do with the board's inferiority complex with the Giants than it does with Darnold. The same stuff that's currently happening with DJ was happening with Eli well before Darnold played for the Jets.

 

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26 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I was with you mostly until Rosen.  He's definitely 5th right now....and may never move higher than that.  Yes, he's in a bad situation, but he got benched for Ryan Fitzpatrick who then breathed a little life into Miami and a comeback against the Redskins.

It's difficult to evaluate a QB on a team that's actively tanking.  

We KNOW for sure that Allen sucks (and always will suck), which is why he gets the bottom spot.  

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2 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

No fixation with upvotes or buttfumbles. Just wondering why you're trying to hard to get villain to like you, is all. Playing the JN equivalent of grab ass might add to your experience?

image.png.10a0d7ad5102f32f9657dc9c48110473.png

image.png.4dc4eddc1cf456e4124eab1df53d4545.png

image.png.1005dfbd631c9065b4965b5ca88851f5.png

 

Disagree. The fixation on this board with Mayfield stems from one poster. Most of us probably would just say he's an ass and sucks at football and move on like we do for a lot of other QBs. Pissing on Baker is more about taking victory laps because some of us didn't appreciate the constant spamming over the last two years.

The fixation on Jones has more to do with the board's inferiority complex with the Giants than it does with Darnold. The same stuff that's currently happening with DJ was happening with Eli well before Darnold played for the Jets.

 

Those posts are trolling you and your buddies, villian love is gravy

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

It's difficult to evaluate a QB on a team that's actively tanking.  

We KNOW for sure that Allen sucks (and always will suck), which is why he gets the bottom spot.  

How do you know that part?

 

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23 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

How does this using the QB ranking thing work exactly? People got upset with me for bringing up Darnold's '18 ranking in discussions last offseason. With others, like Allen and Jones it's a valid thing though?

I'm not knocking Darnold, I'm rooting for him to do well. I'd love to see him reel of 8 or nine wins this year. I just don't see how doing that and acknowledging that Mayfield, Allen and Jones, hell even a Kyler Murray or Luke Jackson are showing a lot of good things also bothers so many people. 

Murray and Lamar Jackson are indeed doing a lot of good things, and that doesn't bother me one iota.  

What bothers me is when people lump Mayfield, Allen and Jones into that category despite the current evidence against it.  

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's difficult to evaluate a QB on a team that's actively tanking.  

We KNOW for sure that Allen sucks (and always will suck), which is why he gets the bottom spot.  

Do we know? I mean im pretty sure but not many QBs that come out of college with Darnolds profile hit either. He was over 50%  likely to bust in qbase and Allen wasnt that much higher. Darnold was a lot closer to Allen than Mayfield 

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