Rex: Baker Mayfield “overrated as hell”

[Villain The Foe]

 

[Villain The Foe]

Edit

[Villain The Foe]

On 9/25/2019 at 4:04 PM, Patriot Killa said:

I watched a lot of Baker last year. I didn’t see one reads? I seen him go through progressions rather well. Kind of hard to stat pad 27 touchdowns, Phil. 

I’m just saying.

Phil simply reiterates what he recently hears. Rex says he's a "one-read" QB, suddenly Phil notices how Baker is a one read QB that cant go through his progressions. 

I'd like to know: How would Phil explain this past Browns game given that Odell is the #1 WR yet he tied a career low 2 catches and made a career low 20 yards? How did Odell have statistically the worst game of his career, yet Baker threw for 350 yards and completed 67% of his 30 pass attempts if he's a "one-read" guy? 

Some would be quick to mention (which has already occurred) how he targeted Jarvis Landry throughout the game, which he did. But here are the numbers. Jarvis caught 8 of Bakers 20 passes. however, 7 players caught atleast a pass from Mayfield in the game. That's pretty high for a guy who's a "one-read" type. This means that 60% of Bakers passes (the majority) was caught by 6 other players. If you add Landry and Beckham together, that means that 50% of bakers passes was caught by 5 other players. That sounds pretty distributed to me when half of your passes are being caught by guys who generally are depth guys and not within the top 4 in receiver options. This is what I mean...

Baker and the Browns was entering a game against the #1 offense and #1 in time of possession in the NFL and a team known for it's defense. 

The Browns was going into this game with 25% of it's key players out due to injury or suspension. How did Baker and the offense respond? 

Starting TE David Njoku is injured. Back up TE Ricky Seals-Jones put up 82 yards on 3 catches and a TD. 

Starting #3 WR Higgins is injured and #4 Calloway is suspended. Baker completes a combined 7 passes between his 5th & 6th WR's options along with RB's Chubb for 73 yards in order to compensate. 

And speaking of pass catching RB's, Hunt is still suspended and Duke Johnson is a Texan, so Chubb had to fill in for that role so far this season.

All this and the offense was able to put up 40 points. 

What about the Browns defense? 

Both their starting corners were out in this game. Yet the Browns held the Ravens to just 18 points, as the Ravens last TD was pretty much garbage time and the game was out of reach by then. 

 

Here's my take away. Baker Mayfield isnt overrated, nor is his a one-read QB, however he was being overused.  Freddie Kitchens (a guy who was also getting criticism) went back to what they did well last year, which was present more of the run into the offense along with playaction from Baker and keep his passes at the most 30 per game. 

Baker throwing 35-40 times per game when you're missing your core receivers, completing just over 50% and not establishing the running game gives the opponent the advantage immediately as it gives them the ball and time of possession. That's exactly what happened in the Titans and Rams games. With the Ravens, the Browns established the run, which established Time of possession, kept Mayfield at 30 passes, and they stomped a hole in the chest of a team that everyone was praising just a week ago. 

That's coaching. To prove that, it was coaching that lost that Rams game. Todd Monkins offense requires better Olinemen that can hold their blocks and not rack up penalties. The Browns are the complete opposite. Against the Ravens the Browns went to Freddie Kitchens offense, and what do you know? Baker was clean in the pocket throughout the game, rarely any holding calls on the Oline, the RB's have the best game of the year and so did Mayfield. 

Once the Browns coaching staff get things in order in respects of how they will approach games schematically, then we will see more consistency from Baker. And by the 2nd half of the season back will also have Higgins, Calloway and Hunt while going into the easy stretch of the season. 

Kitchens needs to keep the offense that he had last year. They dont have the personnel at the line to run Monkin's offense, nor is Baker prepared to shoulder the entire load. 

When Baker throws for 31 passes or less the Browns are 6-0, when he throws for more than 31 passes the Browns are 3-9. Dont make the game about Baker Mayfield. Establish him into a passer the way Seattle did with Wilson over multiple years. This is why Chubb and soon Hunt are here. 

 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

When Baker throws for 31 passes or less the Browns are 6-0, when he throws for more than 31 passes the Browns are 3-9. Dont make the game about Baker Mayfield. Establish him into a passer the way Seattle did with Wilson over multiple years. This is why Chub and soon Hunt is here. 

Sucks when you're QB sucks so bad you have to hide him in your offense and use him as little as possible. 

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Sucks when you're QB sucks so bad you have to hide him in your offense and use him as little as possible. 

You dont even watch football. 

[section314]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Sucks when you're QB sucks so bad you have to hide him in your offense and use him as little as possible. 

Say what you want about Rex, but he was able to do that with Sanchez.

[Villain The Foe]

23 minutes ago, section314 said:

Say what you want about Rex, but he was able to do that with Sanchez.

@JiF really doesnt mean it (nor do the people agreeing with him), because if he did, he would basically be saying that Darnold sucks and is being hid...and Sam Darnold doesnt suck but is simply new to the pro's and needs to be properly acclimated to the pro level

Sam Darnold's ratio is no different. 

Sam throwing for 29 or more passes is 1-10

Sam throwing less than 29 passes is 3-1. 

[greenwichjetfan]

On 9/29/2019 at 9:52 PM, greenwichjetfan said:

although the Browns won some games and Baker played his part, he wasn’t the driving force behind the wins that you so badly want him to be because the Browns are legitimately talented even without Baker.

On 9/29/2019 at 10:14 PM, 14 in Green said:

Finally,Mayfield is and was the driving force behind the Browns wins.

On 9/29/2019 at 10:42 PM, greenwichjetfan said:

Yes, and Sanchez was the reason we went to back to back AFC title games too. Seriously, even Villain is cringing at this.

24 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

When Baker throws for 31 passes or less the Browns are 6-0, when he throws for more than 31 passes the Browns are 3-9. Dont make the game about Baker Mayfield.

As I've said many times before and after the draft, to date, Baker is exactly what he was supposed to be coming out of college - a plug and play solid starter with limited upside (this is not a bad thing - it just is what it is) who was always supposed to have the better rookie year amongst all of the 2018 QBs. I'm glad you @Villain The Foe see this and express it as well.

My hating Baker is because he's a douche. Fanboys mistake that as my hating the player to prop up Sam, but look back at my posts in this thread: all of my "h8er" posts involve his stupidity outside of his play.

[Villain The Foe]

26 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

As I've said many times before and after the draft, to date, Baker is exactly what he was supposed to be coming out of college - a plug and play solid starter with limited upside (this is not a bad thing - it just is what it is) who was always supposed to have the better rookie year amongst all of the 2018 QBs. I'm glad you @Villain The Foe see this and express it as well.

My hating Baker is because he's a douche. Fanboys mistake that as my hating the player to prop up Sam, but look back at my posts in this thread: all of my "h8er" posts involve his stupidity outside of his play.

I've never once expressed that narrative, and by trying to misconstrue my words proves that so-called fanboys to a degree have you figured out. 

Nothing in my words would suggest Baker as having a limited upside. Quite the contrary, I said. 

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

Kitchens needs to keep the offense that he had last year. They dont have the personnel at the line to run Monkin's offense, nor is Baker prepared to shoulder the entire load. 

When Baker throws for 31 passes or less the Browns are 6-0, when he throws for more than 31 passes the Browns are 3-9. Dont make the game about Baker Mayfield. Establish him into a passer the way Seattle did with Wilson over multiple years. This is why Chubb and soon Hunt are here. 

 

Im showing that at this point in time Baker Mayfield isnt able to shoulder the entire offense on his arm. This same thing could be said for many QB's who went on to shoulder a franchise for many years, including a guy named Tom Brady. 

I personally compared the situation to Seattle and Wilson, not because Wilson is limited, It's clear that Wilson is one of the most efficient and deadly QB's in all of football and IMO is a top 5 QB right now. And yet, Russell Wilson didnt even get close to the amount of pass attempts that Mayfield had in just 13 games until Wilson's 5th season, 483 attempts in 16 games, which was still short of Mayfield's 486 in 13 games.

My point is, Mayfield was on pace to throw well over 500 pass attempts for a season had he played the entire rookie season. That's absurd. He's on the same pace again. My point is to build the team around Baker in his first years and when he becomes the elite QB one expected (as I said that he was a RICH MAN'S Jeff Garcia) then run the offense through him. 

 

There's no need to take shots at @14 in Green by misconstruing my words. Haters looking to validate their hate do that. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

You dont even watch football. 

Not true. I watch a ton of college and the Jets.  

[greenwichjetfan]

21 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I've never once expressed that narrative, and by trying to misconstrue my words proves that so-called fanboys to a degree have you figured out.

There's no need to take shots at @14 in Green by misconstruing my words. Haters looking to validate their hate do that. 

Jesus. I didn't even read anything other than what I quoted. Even when I try to be civil with you, you're still a Baker.

I was talking about the fact that both of us (a Baker wannabe and a "Baker Hater") both agree that to date, he is not the driving force behind the Browns wins. And I wasn't taking shots at 14 - he and I already hashed it out in another thread. Was just pointing out that over the past two years, many posters have labeled me as a Baker hater because of his play on the field, whereas my hate is 100% driven by the fact that he's Rex wannabe douchebag without the relative history of success that Rex has on his resume.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

@JiF really doesnt mean it (nor do the people agreeing with him), because if he did, he would basically be saying that Darnold sucks and is being hid...and Sam Darnold doesnt suck but is simply new to the pro's and needs to be properly acclimated to the pro level

Sam Darnold's ratio is no different. 

Sam throwing for 29 or more passes is 1-10

Sam throwing less than 29 passes is 3-1. 

I think any time you're only chance to win is by limiting your QB on the amount of passes he attempts, it means you dont have a very good QB and Baker Mayfield sucks so this make sense from the Browns.  Besides, Nick Chubb is really ******* good. 

If that definition fits Sam Darnold as well, so be it.  He hasnt proven anything to anyone in the league.  He's a soft So. Cal boogie boarding bitch at this point and not an NFL QB.  So if the cap fits him too, then let both these little bitches wear it.

Garnder Minshew is the best young QB in the league not named Mahomes and we're debating sh*tty punk bitch Mayfield and So Cal softy Darnold?

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

23 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Jesus. I didn't even read anything other than what I quoted. Even when I try to be civil with you, you're still a Baker.

I was talking about the fact that both of us (a Baker wannabe and a "Baker Hater") both agree that to date, he is not the driving force behind the Browns wins. And I wasn't taking shots at 14 - he and I already hashed it out in another thread. Was just pointing out that over the past two years, many posters have labeled me as a Baker hater because of his play on the field, whereas my hate is 100% driven by the fact that he's Rex wannabe douchebag without the relative history of success that Rex has on his resume.

Am I not being civil? You claimed that my position confirmed that you werent being a hater and that fanboys only see you that way. I was disagreeing with that by using the same words you used. 

I didnt attack you man. What should I have said, that Mayfield has a limited upside though that's not what I've ever said or believed? 

[Villain The Foe]

22 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think any time you're only chance to win is by limiting your QB on the amount of passes he attempts, it means you dont have a very good QB and Baker Mayfield sucks so this make sense from the Browns.  Besides, Nick Chubb is really ******* good. 

If that definition fits Sam Darnold as well, so be it.  He hasnt proven anything to anyone in the league.  He's a soft So. Cal boogie boarding bitch at this point and not an NFL QB.  So if the cap fits him too, then let both these little bitches wear it.

Garnder Minshew is the best young QB in the league not named Mahomes and we're debating sh*tty punk bitch Mayfield and So Cal softy Darnold?

 

 

Limiting your QB doesnt mean he sucks, especially if the QB you're limiting has played a rookie amount of football games. 

And as for Garner Minshew, it's no different. 

#1.  His completions has gone down in every game he started. 

#2. His completions percentage has gone down in every game he's started. 

In games where Minshew has thrown 33 attempts he's 1-1

In games where he's thrown less he's 1-0. 

 

And even with this, Minshew is playing some great football....for a rookie as he doesnt throw picks or fumbles. 

However, Minshew, like Mahomes is playing on a team with talent. Jags with a respectable defense and a running game that showed it's ability on Sunday and Mahomes on an offense that can make any QB reach their potential. 

 

Also, Minshew has not proven to be as good or better than Deshaun Watson. And that's really the problem here. Guys play a couple games and suddenly Minshew is 2nd to Mahomes and Daniel Jones is the best QB in NY. 

 

It's all recency bias. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Limiting your QB doesnt mean he sucks, especially if the QB you're limiting has played a rookie amount of football games. 

And as for Garner Minshew, it's no different. 

#1.  His completions has gone down in every game he started. 

#2. His completions percentage has gone down in every game he's started. 

In games where Minshew has thrown 33 attempts he's 1-1

In games where he's thrown less he's 1-0. 

 

And even with this, Minshew is playing some great football....for a rookie as he doesnt throw picks or fumbles. 

However, Minshew, like Mahomes is playing on a team with talent. Jags with a respectable defense and a running game that showed it's ability on Sunday and Mahomes on an offense that can make any QB reach their potential. 

 

Also, Minshew has not proven to be as good or better than Deshaun Watson. And that's really the problem here. Guys play a couple games and suddenly Minshew is 2nd to Mahomes and Daniel Jones is the best QB in NY. 

 

It's all recency bias. 

Mahomes>Watson>Minshew the rest of the league is garbage or old and who cares?

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Garnder Minshew is the best young QB in the league not named Mahomes

 

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Mahomes>Watson>Minshew the rest of the league is garbage or old and who cares?

 

Maybe a tad early to anoint Minshew, wouldn't you say?

[greenwichjetfan]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Am I not being civil? You claimed that my position confirmed that you werent being a hater and that fanboys only see you that way. I was disagreeing with that by using the same words you used. 

I didnt attack you man. What should I have said, that Mayfield has a limited upside though that's not what I've ever said or believed? 

That’s not what I was trying to claim but rereading my post I can see why you read it that way. Chalk it up to miscommunication. 

Either way, I don’t think he’s as good as fanboys think he is, but that doesn’t make me a hater because I expected him to be at least somewhat competent. What makes me a hater is hoping we get some exciting Baker drama soon. It’s been like 2 whole days since he took shots at someone on Twitter.

[Villain The Foe]

16 minutes ago, JiF said:

Mahomes>Watson>Minshew the rest of the league is garbage or old and who cares?

We do since we're holding the conversation. 

And honestly, no one outside of Mahomes and Watson has solidified their position so I cant necessarily argue your opinion on Minshew even with just a few games under his belt. I would have a different opinion but it's all still opnion nonetheless. 

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

That’s not what I was trying to claim but rereading my post I can see why you read it that way. Chalk it up to miscommunication. 

Either way, I don’t think he’s as good as fanboys think he is, but that doesn’t make me a hater because I expected him to be at least somewhat competent. What makes me a hater is hoping we get some exciting Baker drama soon. It’s been like 2 whole days since he took shots at someone on Twitter.

No problem bro. I really wasnt trying to be a d*ck. My words just make me look like one at times. ?

[JustInFudge]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Maybe a tad early to anoint Minshew, wouldn't you say?

That's what we do these days.  Havent you followed, Nick Chubb ran all over the Ravens and suddenly Baker Mayfield doesnt suck! 

[JustInFudge]

18 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

We do since we're holding the conversation. 

And honestly, no one outside of Mahomes and Watson has solidified their position so I cant necessarily argue your opinion on Minshew even with just a few games under his belt. I would have a different opinion but it's all still opnion nonetheless. 

No I meant "who cares" as a classification of QB's in the league. 

[Villain The Foe]

18 minutes ago, JiF said:

No I meant "who cares" as a classification of QB's in the league. 

Then I cant put Mayfield in that category. He finished as a top 15 QB last year statistically. He was the only young QB on the top 100 with Watson and Mahomes as well. Sure, he hasnt lived up to the hype that was generated this entire offseason, but that's a pedestal that most other folks were making. Folks were talking superbowl and these guys havent even learned how to win as of yet. Lets end the season with a winning record, or win a division first. With that said, it's clear that Mayfield at this point is a system QB. He didnt look great in a couple games under Todd Haley as the OC, looked really good under Freddie Kitchens, looked overwhelmed with Monkins offense...but hung in there for the most part outside of that Titans game. He looked solid again with Kitchens going that max protect/2 TE formations. That's the job of the coaching staff. Figure out what the QB is best at and then doing it. Nothing wrong with being a system QB if you work well in the system. I think Mayfield will do better with Monkins offense once they do something to sure up the Oline in order for those longer routes to develop. You cant run that style of offense if Mayfield doesnt trust his Oline because of the inconsistency and will leave the pocket at times even when he doesnt have to. 

To go down to the wire against the Rams isnt bad. They were in the Superbowl just 8 months ago. 

 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then I cant put Mayfield in that category. He finished as a top 15 QB last year statistically. He was the only young QB on the top 100 with Watson and Mahomes as well. Sure, he hasnt lived up to the hype that was generated this entire offseason, but that's a pedestal that most other folks were making. Folks were talking superbowl and these guys havent even learned how to win as of yet. Lets end the season with a winning record, or win a division first. With that said, it's clear that Mayfield at this point is a system QB. He didnt look great in a couple games under Todd Haley as the OC, looked really good under Freddie Kitchens, looked overwhelmed with Monkins offense...but hung in there for the most part outside of that Titans game. He looked solid again with Kitchens going that max protect/2 TE formations. That's the job of the coaching staff. Figure out what the QB is best at and then doing it. Nothing wrong with being a system QB if you work well in the system. I think Mayfield will do better with Monkins offense once they do something to sure up the Oline in order for those longer routes to develop. You cant run that style of offense if Mayfield doesnt trust his Oline because of the inconsistency and will leave the pocket at times even when he doesnt have to. 

To go down to the wire against the Rams isnt bad. They were in the Superbowl just 8 months ago. 

 

Buddy, if you got to say all that to justify his play....psssst....he's not very good.  Or just simplify it; Baker Mayfield sucks.  

[Villain The Foe]

13 minutes ago, JiF said:

Buddy, if you got to say all that to justify his play....psssst....he's not very good.  Or just simplify it; Baker Mayfield sucks.  

I've said all that to support my opinion. 

But I shouldnt argue with those who dont watch who they overly criticize, so in that respect you have a point. 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I've said all that to support my opinion. 

But I shouldnt argue with those who dont watch who they overly criticize, so in that respect you have a point. 

Well, that's not true either.  I watched him college and last year and till week 3 of this year before I gave up the NFL.  So I've actually only missed 1 game of his illustrious career. 

[Villain The Foe]

31 minutes ago, JiF said:

Well, that's not true either.  I watched him college and last year and till week 3 of this year before I gave up the NFL.  So I've actually only missed 1 game of his illustrious career. 

Then you basically missed his performance in the most important game of his career thus far, going up against the current division leader with 1st place in that division on the line with an opportunity to get the season back on track. 

He responded with the best performance of the season, adding to his illustrious career. 

[JustInFudge]

13 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then you basically missed his performance in the most important game of his career thus far, going up against the current division leader with 1st place in that division on the line with an opportunity to get the season back on track. 

He responded with the best performance of the season, adding to his illustrious career. 

Those week 4 victories are where champions are born.

Unless they suck, like Baker Mayfield. 

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Those week 4 victories are where champions are born.

Unless they suck, like Baker Mayfield. 

Shiiiiiit, he's no Gardener Minshew, that's for sure.

[JustInFudge]

11 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Shiiiiiit, he's no Gardener Minshew, that's for sure.

`

[Snell41]

Link?

Read Collision Low Crossers, it’s in there straight from the mouth of the guy Rex let in the building to cover them for the season for the book.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[greenwichjetfan]

On 10/1/2019 at 1:11 PM, JiF said:

That's what we do these days.  Havent you followed, Nick Chubb ran all over the Ravens and suddenly Baker Mayfield doesnt suck! 

Lol.

Brieda just broke off an 83 yard TD run on the 49ers first play from scrimmage. Jimmy G the real deal!!!

[Philc1]

Ahem cough

[joewilly12]

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Can we get him back?

[Saul Goodman]