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Has NFL offense passed Gase by?

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28 minutes ago, Stark said:

right, i won't argue that. the bigger point is Peyton Manning could have had no OC by the time he was in Denver he was a coach on the field.

Maybe Gase is good with a top tier QB, which I would think any OC would be. Maybe Gase is just an average OC that thrived with a great QB. It's completely plausible. 

Im not discounting your comment, I agree he's had low level QB's and some played their better football. Like I said I hope Gase proves me wrong.

Doesn't come close to explaining why PM had his all time best season with Gase.  After he was declining.  

Or how he won with Tebow.  Got Cutler playing well in Chicago.  

The only thing a given is this OL doesn't allow anyone time to throw and our starting QB is out.

 

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21 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

That’s all I see. 

While ignoring the countless Jets who have said he's not that

Give us one example of a player who backs up what you claim to see, that isn't evident anywhere

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14 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

Do you have anything to contribute to the discussion around whether NFL offense has passed our supposed offensive genius HC by?

Or do you actually feel your post adds anything to this discussion?

This is a great site. A great place to discuss our Jets.  Go find another thread.  

In fact, why don't you start one?  I'd be curious what you could come up with...

Are the guy that was touting McCarthy or not?  If not, I am sorry.  If so, GFY. 

Either way, it is a valid point - many of these offensive coaches have a few down years.  Especially when their personnel is not the best.  McCarthy was considered a wizard, but then he sucked for a few years.  Chip Kelly put up some gross numbers in Philly, but by his last year they sucked and he was a disaster in SF.  LaFleur was considered an up and comer, but left the Rams for the Titans and a chance to call plays.  His offense did not look particularly good, but that still propelled him to the head job in Green Bay, which is now a defensive team.  DeFilippo had a bad run with an awful team in Cleveland, but his time in Philly raised his rep up enough to get him the Vikings OC job, but he got fired after sh*tting the bed against the Pats and Seahawks back to back. He still got the Jags job.   What coach is surviving multiple QBs and staying at the top on O?  Bill Walsh? Andy Reid?  I guess, but they were kind of hit and miss with Smith.  I guess Belichick held it together pretty well in 2008. 

FWIW, I don't think there is some silver bullet scheme that tricks everyone.  Gase has not been good, but he hasn't had much of a chance.  The offensive line is pitiful and he seems to try to run a fairly complex system.  It is tough to do that when you are still doing your installs while half the guys are getting knocked out of games.  

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2 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

McCarthy was considered a wizard, but then he sucked for a few years.  

Exactly.

McCarthy sucked when RGers was out. 

He was under .500

That doesn't factor in though.  

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Gase hasn't played conservatively all season with a sick QB, a third string QB.

Going on 4th a few times?

Passing from his 10, which he was killed for.

Conservative?  No one can make up what they want to see.  

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6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

FWIW, I don't think there is some silver bullet scheme that tricks everyone.  Gase has not been good, but he hasn't had much of a chance.  The offensive line is pitiful

guru, offensive genius? honestly, cant rememebre ANYONE here saying that about Gase. I was MEH when he was signed. BUt....   read some stuff, thought, well at least he was an OC. We've had all these DCs never been a HC in.

We root for them and for the Jets. 

But the main point...  there is NO ALCHEMY. (silver bullet) cant tturn liquid waste into GOLD bricks (Au).. OL

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30 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You've been saying this same thing for 8 months and nothing we've seen from him says you're right.

Exactly.

If you watch his press conferences (I've watched them all, YouTube) he actually has a pleasant and often humorous relationship with the media.  He's handled the postgame pressers after tough losses properly, and he's saying the right things.

People hate the hire, blah blah blah.  Let the guy prove himself or fail.  Judging the guy with a 3rd string quarterback is ridiculous.

SAR I

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4 hours ago, SAR I said:

Sure.

Or a defensive coordinator that made no adjustments when CJ Mosley got injured. The Bills scored TD’s on two consecutive drives after Mosley’s injury and it was easy, we didn’t even put up a fight.

But nobody seems to go after Gregg Williams.  Because he’s boisterous and flashy.  Smells like Rex Ryan all over again, doesn’t it?  Defense blows a 16 point lead and they blame Mark Sanchez, again.

SAR I

 

NFL defense that hold teams to 16 points win the game most of the time.   Williams did it with crap heap and no corners.  Also did you missed the part when the defense scored a TD in that game?  They were gasping for air by the end of the game with so many 3 and out the entire game.  

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11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Exactly.

McCarthy sucked when RGers was out. 

He was under .500

That doesn't factor in though.  

But McCarthy was competitive and they had an horrible defense.  Gase's offense has been college level type.  No?

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9 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

While ignoring the countless Jets who have said he's not that

Give us one example of a player who backs up what you claim to see, that isn't evident anywhere

He comes across like a pompous asshole that thinks he’s better then everyone (kind of like a certain poster here)

from former players. 

One complaint voiced by players about Gase is that he didn’t necessarily stick with what was working in games. One player said the team would be running the ball successfully, and Gase inexplicably then started throwing it. 

One sentiment we heard: Gase wanted to fool the other team but sometimes ended up outsmarting himself. That frustrated some players.

 

Another view expressed from the locker room: Gase wasn’t as emotionally level as a head coach needed to be at times. One player said if a play-call didn’t work, he sometimes let it carry over for several minutes and was out of sorts emotionally. That player said a more level, a more even emotional approach would have been preferred.

 

As ESPN’s Cameron Wolfe tweeted, “a few guys told me [they] felt alienated and held to a different standard if they weren’t one of ‘his guys’ like Ryan Tannehill and others.” That’s something we’ve also heard.

 

I know you like nothing more then to endlessly debate the same thing over and over but I don’t like Gase and I think it was a bad hire and until he proves me wrong nothing anyone says is going to change my mind. He’s sucked everywhere outside of when Manning was holding his hand. 

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6 minutes ago, DRJETS said:

Gase's offense has been college level type.  No?

how'd you rate Siemien and Falk performances?

NCAA would be one way.

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8 minutes ago, DRJETS said:

NFL defense that hold teams to 16 points win the game most of the time.   Williams did it with crap heap and no corners.  Also did you missed the part when the defense scored a TD in that game?  They were gasping for air by the end of the game with so many 3 and out the entire game.  

Who cares what the D did in the first minute of the game?  Your D matters most late in the game, they get paid the big bucks when you're mounting a comeback or have a lead to protect.

When it's the 4th quarter and you have a 16 point lead against a team that had done nothing but self-destruct all game there is ZERO excuse for the defense to fold like that.  And if the loss of Mosely was the answer, well, one of the most accomplished and experienced DC's in the NFL should have made whatever personnel or schematic adjustments were necessary to restore order.  Instead, the Bills passed through William's D like water and scored 2 TD's in less than 8 minutes.

SAR I

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29 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

He comes across like a pompous a$$hole that thinks he’s better then everyone (kind of like a certain poster here)

from former players. 

One complaint voiced by players about Gase is that he didn’t necessarily stick with what was working in games. One player said the team would be running the ball successfully, and Gase inexplicably then started throwing it. 

One sentiment we heard: Gase wanted to fool the other team but sometimes ended up outsmarting himself. That frustrated some players.

 

Another view expressed from the locker room: Gase wasn’t as emotionally level as a head coach needed to be at times. One player said if a play-call didn’t work, he sometimes let it carry over for several minutes and was out of sorts emotionally. That player said a more level, a more even emotional approach would have been preferred.

 

As ESPN’s Cameron Wolfe tweeted, “a few guys told me [they] felt alienated and held to a different standard if they weren’t one of ‘his guys’ like Ryan Tannehill and others.” That’s something we’ve also heard.

 

I know you like nothing more then to endlessly debate the same thing over and over but I don’t like Gase and I think it was a bad hire and until he proves me wrong nothing anyone says is going to change my mind. He’s sucked everywhere outside of when Manning was holding his hand. 

Pure utter fantasy

You don’t like him, didn’t want him.  That’s fine, you’re opinion.  

Doesnt mean you need to make shlt up

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21 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Who cares what the D did in the first minute of the game?  Your D matters most late in the game, they get paid the big bucks when you're mounting a comeback or have a lead to protect.

When it's the 4th quarter and you have a 16 point lead against a team that had done nothing but self-destruct all game there is ZERO excuse for the defense to fold like that.  And if the loss of Mosely was the answer, well, one of the most accomplished and experienced DC's in the NFL should have made whatever personnel or schematic adjustments were necessary to restore order.  Instead, the Bills passed through William's D like water and scored 2 TD's in less than 8 minutes.

SAR I

Nah when the defense are on their feet almost entire game. 

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6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Pure utter fantasy

You don’t like him, didn’t want him.  That’s fine, you’re opinion.  

Doesnt mean you need to make shlt up

I quoted Barry Jackson from the Miami Herald how is that making shit up and it was well known in South Florida that players didn’t like him. 

The only fantasy is fans blindly thinking every coach hired even if they have losing records and bad stats are going to miraculously turn the Jets around and win a SB. 50 years and counting. 

I’m realistic 

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1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

I quoted Barry Jackson from the Miami Herald how is that making sh*t up and it was well known in South Florida that players didn’t like him. 

The only fantasy is fans blindly thinking every coach hired even if they have losing records and bad stats are going to miraculously turn the Jets around and win a SB. 50 years and counting. 

I’m realistic 

Last I checked we're not in Miami.

A couple of players like Landry who wanted to be the highest paid WR in the NFL.  Gase has said, they couldn't do,it.  Good thing they didn't, he hasn't come close to earning the deal he signed inCleveland.

A player trade away whines.  A player who led the team in touches whined that he wanted more.  Where's Ajayi? 

You should live down here, the press is brain dead.  They call is those stinking rotten Jets.  

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3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Last I checked we're not in Miami.

A couple of players like Landry who wanted to be the highest paid WR in the NFL.  Gase has said, they couldn't do,it.  Good thing they didn't, he hasn't come close to earning the deal he signed inCleveland.

A player trade away whines.  A player who led the team in touches whined that he wanted more.  Where's Ajayi? 

You should live down here, the press is brain dead.  They call is those stinking rotten Jets.  

Fort Lauderdale is far enough down here. I left Miami 18 years ago. 

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Doesn't come close to explaining why PM had his all time best season with Gase.  After he was declining.  

Or how he won with Tebow.  Got Cutler playing well in Chicago.  

The only thing a given is this OL doesn't allow anyone time to throw and our starting QB is out.

 

cool, well I guess when our offense starts to light it up and break JETS records it will be because Gase is an Offensive Guru.... As I said I hop he proves me wrong, I don't expect it. 

so when we get an upgraded O Line the genius will be evident, another season? ... we'll see. But based on what he showed the first 3 weeks I don't believe it and that is taking into consideration Trevor and Falk. At some point you need to call something that shows "unpredictability" and this genius we are awaiting. 

Anyone can call a run for Bell 3 times in a row when the defense knows that is coming. or the Screen pass to Bell in predictable spots. 

 

Yes, when Sam is back I expect better. I said in an earlier post that I am giving him benefit of doubt with this horrible injury luck to start the year. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Bellamy is the only WR on the team? That explains why Gase only runs up the middle and calls draws/delays and dump passes to the RBs. 

Robby Anderson can't get open vs a CB1 who often has Safety help.  Jamison Crowder has gone from 14 receptions to 4 to 2 over the past 3 weeks.  We have subpar pass-catching TEs (until Herndon returns), Enunwa and Demaryius Thomas are hurt.

It's kinda like putting somebody behind the wheel here and saying, drive faster!

 

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7 hours ago, SAR I said:

He.
Was.
Very.
Sick.

If you are looking for someone to blame, blame God. We are 0-3 because of sickness and injury.  Stop listening to sports talk radio.

SAR I

THEY ARE GASBAGS!!!!!!

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7 hours ago, SAR I said:

With a third string quarterback against two of the top defenses in the NFL what exactly would you expect him to do? Not give the ball to one of the top running backs in the NFL?  Not let Bell try to break a long one like he has been known to do?

Imagine a world where he let Falk sling it 40 times in a game and had 5 interceptions, you’d be screaming that he was an idiot because he didn’t use Bell enough. 

Be real. It’s a no-win situation. And I don’t understand why anyone is more frustrated this week than they were last week, it’s not like we had any chance to win in New England, that game was a complete throw away.

We are 0-3 because of sickness and injury, it’s simply bad luck. And based on what I have seen there was an extremely strong chance that the Jets would be 2-1 right now if Darnold didn’t get sick and Mosely didn’t pull a groin.

I’m pissed off too, but I’m not blaming a coach in an impossible situation. I’m blaming God.  I will also be thanking God when all of our starters return healthy and the team that we were so excited about in August is back on the field performing at their capabilities.

SAR I

The injuries surly play a part not doubt... HOWEVR,  ...t's not the 0-3 start that's the problem with Gase. It's this:

http://turnonthejets.com/2019/09/new-york-jets-bye-week-the-three-things-teams-to-learn-from/

"As it stands now, we have seen the exact same offense from Gase that he ran in Miami. The same swing pass 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 3, is the same one he did with Ryan Tannehill, the same one he did with Sam Darnold week 1, the same one he did with Trevor Siemian week 2 and the same one he did with Luke Falk in week 3. When Darnold is back, the team must play to his strengths, get him on the move to mitigate offensive line concerns and show some flexibility off what didn’t work for Gase in Miami. It is about building a system that fits your players, not fitting the players into your system."

If Gase didn't see fit to change his ways after his failures in Miami, and so far through 3 games with the Jets, why does anyone think he's going to change now? To correct a problem, first you have to admit there is a problem.  That is what 12 step programs teach and something Gase has yet to learn... 

Gase's schemes and playcalling are problems, but if you listen to him THAT isn't the problem, it's poor execution (to an extent it is but if the players are having issues wouldn't it make sense to adjust by simplifying the blocking schemes until people improve?  ). So, apparently the solution is that we just have to wait until we replace the majority of the roster with players that can execute Gase's plans! 

This is exactly what he did in Miami and look how that worked out.  He is 0-6 his last 6 games.   let me repeat that he is 0-6 his last 6 games.  So IMHO unless this changes this team will be 0-6 (with Sam) and AG's  record will be 0-9.  Just saying...

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2 hours ago, SAR I said:

Who cares what the D did in the first minute of the game?  Your D matters most late in the game, they get paid the big bucks when you're mounting a comeback or have a lead to protect.

When it's the 4th quarter and you have a 16 point lead against a team that had done nothing but self-destruct all game there is ZERO excuse for the defense to fold like that.  And if the loss of Mosely was the answer, well, one of the most accomplished and experienced DC's in the NFL should have made whatever personnel or schematic adjustments were necessary to restore order.  Instead, the Bills passed through William's D like water and scored 2 TD's in less than 8 minutes.

SAR I

Funny, what aren't you using the same logic on AG then...  just saying. 

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3 hours ago, New York Mick said:

The only fantasy is fans blindly thinking every coach hired even if they have losing records and bad stats are going to miraculously turn the Jets around and win a SB. 50 years and counting. 

I’m realistic 

You lobby for fans to make more noise in the stadium, you lobby for Firefraud to come back to lead the chant, and you curl up in a ball like a coward when the team needs your support the most.

There are better places to act like a sad victim than a forum full of Jets fans.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Last I checked we're not in Miami.

A couple of players like Landry who wanted to be the highest paid WR in the NFL.  Gase has said, they couldn't do,it.  Good thing they didn't, he hasn't come close to earning the deal he signed inCleveland.

A player trade away whines.  A player who led the team in touches whined that he wanted more.  Where's Ajayi? 

You should live down here, the press is brain dead.  They call is those stinking rotten Jets.  

And Gase was proven right, wasn't he.  He called out the bad eggs and they showed their true colors. 

Gase wanted out of Miami, it was toxic down there.  He'll now get his chance to show that he made a good decision.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, David Harris said:

Thank god there’s no football game this week

Yeah, because now we get an extra week to hear SOJF's try to convince us that our head coach is a failure worthy of termination because he couldn't get a third string quarterback to beat Bill Belichick in Foxboro.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, SOJ said:

The injuries surly play a part not doubt... HOWEVR,  ...t's not the 0-3 start that's the problem with Gase. It's this:

http://turnonthejets.com/2019/09/new-york-jets-bye-week-the-three-things-teams-to-learn-from/

"As it stands now, we have seen the exact same offense from Gase that he ran in Miami. The same swing pass 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 3, is the same one he did with Ryan Tannehill, the same one he did with Sam Darnold week 1, the same one he did with Trevor Siemian week 2 and the same one he did with Luke Falk in week 3. When Darnold is back, the team must play to his strengths, get him on the move to mitigate offensive line concerns and show some flexibility off what didn’t work for Gase in Miami. It is about building a system that fits your players, not fitting the players into your system."

If Gase didn't see fit to change his ways after his failures in Miami, and so far through 3 games with the Jets, why does anyone think he's going to change now? To correct a problem, first you have to admit there is a problem.  That is what 12 step programs teach and something Gase has yet to learn... 

Gase's schemes and playcalling are problems, but if you listen to him THAT isn't the problem, it's poor execution (to an extent it is but if the players are having issues wouldn't it make sense to adjust by simplifying the blocking schemes until people improve?  ). So, apparently the solution is that we just have to wait until we replace the majority of the roster with players that can execute Gase's plans! 

This is exactly what he did in Miami and look how that worked out.  He is 0-6 his last 6 games.   let me repeat that he is 0-6 his last 6 games.  So IMHO unless this changes this team will be 0-6 (with Sam) and AG's  record will be 0-9.  Just saying...

I am on JN multiple times a day for several years and I don't recall you or your screen name once.

Taking joy in the misery of others isn't what rooting for an NFL team is all about.  Showing up when things aren't going well to brag about how 'right' you are?  Christ.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, SOJ said:

The injuries surly play a part not doubt... HOWEVR,  ...t's not the 0-3 start that's the problem with Gase. It's this:

http://turnonthejets.com/2019/09/new-york-jets-bye-week-the-three-things-teams-to-learn-from/

"As it stands now, we have seen the exact same offense from Gase that he ran in Miami. The same swing pass 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage on 3rd and 3, is the same one he did with Ryan Tannehill, the same one he did with Sam Darnold week 1, the same one he did with Trevor Siemian week 2 and the same one he did with Luke Falk in week 3. When Darnold is back, the team must play to his strengths, get him on the move to mitigate offensive line concerns and show some flexibility off what didn’t work for Gase in Miami. It is about building a system that fits your players, not fitting the players into your system."

If Gase didn't see fit to change his ways after his failures in Miami, and so far through 3 games with the Jets, why does anyone think he's going to change now? To correct a problem, first you have to admit there is a problem.  That is what 12 step programs teach and something Gase has yet to learn... 

Gase's schemes and playcalling are problems, but if you listen to him THAT isn't the problem, it's poor execution (to an extent it is but if the players are having issues wouldn't it make sense to adjust by simplifying the blocking schemes until people improve?  ). So, apparently the solution is that we just have to wait until we replace the majority of the roster with players that can execute Gase's plans! 

This is exactly what he did in Miami and look how that worked out.  He is 0-6 his last 6 games.   let me repeat that he is 0-6 his last 6 games.  So IMHO unless this changes this team will be 0-6 (with Sam) and AG's  record will be 0-9.  Just saying...

Who wrote this exactly?   What voice of knowledge are you quoting?  

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9 hours ago, New York Mick said:

So you place zero blame on Gase for terrible play calling?

When your OL is beaten AT THE SNAP time and time again, what play can you call? You certainly can't call a deep passing play, now can you? No, you can't.

It's amazing: people with good football sense otherwise refuse to accept that a NFL offense is built through the OL. You can't expect the same offensive production from a OL of retreads, middle-round draftees, guy(s) who suck but have fat contracts that they have NEVER LIVED UP TO, and guy just out of retirement. The Jets OL is a Henny Youngman joke. And you know this.

But, season after season, year after year, the same brilliant minded Jets fans drool over Sam Darnold and Le'Vean Bell and Robby Anderson and Crowder and [cough] Enunwa and think that a) it's really that formidable a weapon set, and b) it could do anything with the crap we line up:

  • Beachum: not bad, but certainly not a rock, more like a patch of grass
  • Osellem: about the same, only he plays to Beachum's right. I thought he was supposed to be physical; haven't seen it.
  • Old Man River: ???? this is a coaches decision and it is damning one.  how bad he has played. He plays like a guy who should have retired...oh wait. Harrison looked way better before AARP started 'solidifying' the OL
  • Winters: sigh...his play seems to have dropped off, from, you know, barely mediocre
  • Shell: I didn't know the Jets actually played a RT. He's been that bad.

There is nobody mentioned who I could say, "at least we have _____, he's our rock." I'm surprised at the drop-off of Beachum and Shell, so maybe the newness of the scheme is somewhat responsible. But none of these guys is a BIG, physical player and the league seems to be getting better and they seem to have plateaued at que horrible!!

The Jets need some blue-chippers on that OL, for the sake of the skill players. I'm hoping Darnold takes the rest of October off. No sense getting him killed while he has 'mono'.

 

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53 minutes ago, SAR I said:

You lobby for fans to make more noise in the stadium, you lobby for Firefraud to come back to lead the chant, and you curl up in a ball like a coward when the team needs your support the most.

There are better places to act like a sad victim than a forum full of Jets fans.

SAR I

Your jealousy of Ed's attention is hilarious

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10 hours ago, Nixhead said:

What kinda of bothers me is Gase says he never watches the news or sports TV or goes online and he doesn't care about any criticism - he seems to be stuck in his own little world. You have to keep up with the times. A lot of important info can be found online or from watching some criticism so he can maybe realize what he's doing wrong and make corrections. Maybe even read some of the posts on this site. We don't want to fry the guy for the sake of frying him. We want corrections made and Gase is in charge - he is the guy to make the corrections. I think he is very stubborn and its entirely possible he doesn't realize what he's doing wrong. 

So Gase should be like Trump.  Don't watch film or prepare for the next game. Instead, sit in bed until noon eating McDonalds and read this thread, watch Good Morning NFL, and follow Twitter.  Got it.

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7 minutes ago, jetsyrup said:

Your jealousy of Ed's attention is hilarious

We're not jealous.  We disregard him because we don't want to be represented by a blue collar worker with a frowny face who is foolish enough to think that barking orders at executives is a smart idea.

Not to worry.  Now that the Jets have been characterized as a laughing stock, we won't see him at the stadium again.  That's what he does when the team goes south.  He runs and hides, then writes some Dear John letter to the media and blames the fans for his cowardice.

SAR I

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7 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

So Gase is an OL coach now? 

Who aquired these players.

Ok, so the HC is responsible for everything except the OL. Got it

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7 hours ago, SAR I said:

You lobby for fans to make more noise in the stadium, you lobby for Firefraud to come back to lead the chant, and you curl up in a ball like a coward when the team needs your support the most.

There are better places to act like a sad victim than a forum full of Jets fans.

SAR I

I don’t lobby for anything, I’m stating facts which isn’t curling up in a ball. Ignoring a bad game by a coach and a pattern of bad decisions is nothing more the excepting the shit teams this franchise puts on the field year after year. 

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