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Has NFL offense passed Gase by?

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As a coach your job is to get the best out of the hand you are dealt.

Gase has not done that.

He is supposed to be an awesome sauce offensive coach, the offense stinks.  He needs to do a hell of a lot better because he has not great record of success in his recent back ground.

(Also as usual people that defended the hell out of every single gm move over the last 5 years now shift the blame to the departed gm for everything,)

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2 hours ago, New York Mick said:

I’m not saying to fire Gase. Firing him now would be asinine, firing him during the season period would be asinine.  I’m saying he shares the responsibility of how bad the team is doing especially with the way he’s calling the offense. 

How would you have called the offense against the Pats with Luke Falk starting at QB and an OLine that couldn't handle a 4 man pass rush ?  I really want to hear what the great options would be and if Bill Belicheck would have adjusted to it if Gase did make adjustments. Here it is, a blank slate give us your brilliant gameplan

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23 minutes ago, DRJETS said:

But Gase was a offensive guru or so we were told.  I hope the first game is not an indication of this guy tenure with this team.  He did not put his QB in a position to win.  He never called for roll out when he knew the OL was faltering and which is one of Darnolds's strength.  He never called for a single RB screen the entire game.  The Bills pretty much knew what was coming the entire game and most of the time one unblocked rusher came free at Darnolds face.  There was no extra TE, no adjustment at all and that is on the coach so lets not make excuse for this bozo.  

Maybe we ought not get boners about labels like gurus.  Maybe, most of these guys are generally the same, and it's just football, and for the most part, the most talented teams win.  The Jets are one of the least talented, at least in positions where it matters.

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21 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

As a coach your job is to get the best out of the hand you are dealt.

Gase has not done that.

Based on what?  Your speculation?

This may very well be as good as it gets with Kelvin Beachem, Luke Falk, and Robbie Anderson.

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I think the jury is still out on Gase.

But the one thing I will say

You can't run a number 1 offense when your offense is filled with 2nd and 3rd stringers. 

Bell and Crowder are the only two players on offense that would be starting on any other team

Maybe Sam and Herndon

 

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23 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

What exactly is Adam Gase style of offense so far I have seen nothing but dink and doink plays called. 

think mcdaniels system, similar concepts and structure

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The players suck.

The ones that don't are hurt.

The ones that don't and aren't hurt can't do anything because the offensive line sucks.

The rest is mental masturbation.

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10 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

How would you have called the offense against the Pats with Luke Falk starting at QB and an OLine that couldn't handle a 4 man pass rush ?  I really want to hear what the great options would be and if Bill Belicheck would have adjusted to it if Gase did make adjustments. Here it is, a blank slate give us your brilliant gameplan

Read the board I’ve answered that numerous times 

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36 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

As a coach your job is to get the best out of the hand you are dealt.

Gase has not done that.

He is supposed to be an awesome sauce offensive coach, the offense stinks.  He needs to do a hell of a lot better because he has not great record of success in his recent back ground.

(Also as usual people that defended the hell out of every single gm move over the last 5 years now shift the blame to the departed gm for everything,)

I largely agree with this, especially the bolded part, but with qualifications.

While there is a little "noise" in the data in trying to evaluate Gase (First game, Darnold had Mono, Bills defense is Top 5 in the NFL, etc.) there are some things that can't be ignored - He DID have Darnold in at QB (one of the highest rated QBs over the final quarter of last season), the Jets have one of the Top 10 weapons in the NFL in Le’Veon Bell, the Jets were at home and Enunwa played some of that game.  But another argument in favor of the offense that day, game flow.  It just felt like the Jets were playing it safe as they slowly built a growing lead and got up by 16 points in the 2nd half.  I'd probably do the same thing in terms of ball control offense.  Buffalo was doing nothing on offense until Mosely went down.  I'd be trying to consume clock, run a short passing game, not take big risks of a turnover, etc. at that point.

We need to see more.  Whether it's good, bad or ugly we're just not in a position to judge the situation completely without seeing at least a few games of an offense that was clearly built around Sam Darnold.  I could honestly make the case both for and against Gase and the offense right now.

In the Jets first three games they faced two of the NFL's top defenses.  In the other game vs. Cleveland they found out on the Tuesday before the game that Darnold was going to be out, Siemian would start and then were forced to play Luke Falk for most of that game.

361354314_ScreenShot2019-09-26at9_19_10AM.png.4d2d6e422dd9e9624b15971661e064ca.png

 

I just need to see some more reps with a first string QB before I jump on the Crucify Gase train.  Not saying that I won't be there....but I'm not there yet.

 

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15 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Based on what?  Your speculation?

This may very well be as good as it gets with Kelvin Beachem, Luke Falk, and Robbie Anderson.

Based on the fact that guys like Gailey, Morton and bates who had just as sh*tty personnel looked better and Gase is supposed to be some kind of guru.

that and the simple eye ball test of plays and play design.

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4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

I largely agree with this, especially the bolded part, but with qualifications.

While there is a little "noise" in the data in trying to evaluate Gase (First game, Darnold had Mono, Bills defense is Top 5 in the NFL, etc.) there are some things that can't be ignored - He DID have Darnold in at QB (one of the highest rated QBs over the final quarter of last season), the Jets have one of the Top 10 weapons in the NFL in Le’Veon Bell, the Jets were at home and Enunwa played some of that game.  But another argument in favor of the offense that day, game flow.  It just felt like the Jets were playing it safe as they slowly built a growing lead and got up by 16 points in the 2nd half.  I'd probably do the same thing in terms of ball control offense.  Buffalo was doing nothing on offense until Mosely went down.  I'd be trying to consume clock, run a short passing game, not take big risks of a turnover, etc. at that point.

We need to see more.  Whether it's good, bad or ugly we're just not in a position to judge the situation completely without seeing at least a few games of an offense that was clearly built around Sam Darnold.  I could honestly make the case both for and against Gase and the offense right now.

In the Jets first three games they faced two of the NFL's top defenses.  In the other game vs. Cleveland they found out on the Tuesday before the game that Darnold was going to be out, Siemian would start and then were forced to play Luke Falk for most of that game.

361354314_ScreenShot2019-09-26at9_19_10AM.png.4d2d6e422dd9e9624b15971661e064ca.png

 

I just need to see some more reps with a first string QB before I jump on the Crucify Gase train.  Not saying that I won't be there....but I'm not there yet.

 

Gee, i wonder why they have great ratings, maybe because each of those teams played a sh*tty jets offense.

Do you seriously  think the head coach has done a good job with the offense so far?  seriously?

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3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Gee, i wonder why they have great ratings, maybe because each of those teams played a sh*tty jets offense.

Do you seriously  think the head coach has done a good job with the offense so far?  seriously?

Easy answer, no.  He hasn't found a way to mitigate a multitude of deficiencies against some pretty good defenses.

My point is that we simply don't have enough info to judge him yet.

If I watch Aaron Judge go 0 for 5 at the plate while swinging a golf club do I say he's a bad hitter.....or do I wait until they put a baseball bat in his hand and he gets some at-bats?

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26 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Maybe we ought not get boners about labels like gurus.  Maybe, most of these guys are generally the same, and it's just football, and for the most part, the most talented teams win.  The Jets are one of the least talented, at least in positions where it matters.

The defense has very little talents especially at CB but they have impressed so far.  The offense on the other hand have been on college level.  So by your argument it is fair to say that Gase have been horrible with the offense. 

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13 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Based on the fact that guys like Gailey, Morton and bates who had just as sh*tty personnel looked better and Gase is supposed to be some kind of guru.

that and the simple eye ball test of plays and play design.

Those guys had equal or better talent everywhere but RB.

Gase also has a small sample size of top defenses.

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2 minutes ago, DRJETS said:

The defense has very little talents especially at CB but they have impressed so far.  The offense on the other hand have been on college level.  So by your argument it is fair to say that Gase have been horrible with the offense. 

The talent level on defense isn't nearly as bad as on offense.  Everyone on the defensive line is an actual NFL player.  The linebackers are generally NFL players, and the safeties are NFL players.  Agreed that CB is terrible.  Also, a defense can operate with weaknesses at any position.  If the QB is incompetent, there is no offense.

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3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

 

People will always blame the coach because it's an easy fix, and it allows the fantasy that we're just one strategist away from a competitive team.  Hard is bringing in a #1 and a #2 WR, probably 5 offensive linemen, and we don't even yet know if the QB is competent, and acknowledging that we're more than one offseason away from having to fix all of that.

So you're saying we've had good coaches here?  Look at the list of our coaches.  They were not good.

I'm 100% understanding of the other side of the issue re is Gase the right guy or not.  I get that he's been handcuffed with all sorts of issues (personnel, injury, etc.).

What I don't understand are those posters that are so dug in on Gase.  How many games in a row will he have to lose before we start to look at whether he is right for us even in the short to intermediate term.

This will be his 4th consecutive year coaching in the AFCE.  He's not some newbie.  

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2 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

So you're saying we've had good coaches here?

Literally no.  Nowhere did I say this.

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14 hours ago, SAR I said:

We're not jealous.  We disregard him because we don't want to be represented by a blue collar worker with a frowny face who is foolish enough to think that barking orders at executives is a smart idea.

Not to worry.  Now that the Jets have been characterized as a laughing stock, we won't see him at the stadium again.  That's what he does when the team goes south.  He runs and hides, then writes some Dear John letter to the media and blames the fans for his cowardice.

SAR I

Wow, now you're referring to yourself as "We're". You're losing what little grip you had left.

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Took a look at Gase's record as an OC and the last time he had a top offense (with Peyton as MVP) was 5 years ago.
Lots has changed since then.  I've seen a lot of posters discuss his scheme, etc.
Wondering if perhaps his offensive scheme is outdated and no longer effective.  We were told he's an innovator by our owner.  I think we may have hired a coach that the NFL has literally passed by.
 
 

I don’t know about Gase. Wasn’t a fan of the hire but I’ve been supportive since. My pendulum hasn’t swung as drastically as many here yet either though.

Our OL has been unbelievably bad. I don’t know wtf is going on there but I saw gase’s 1st week sceme as trying to account for the minimal time the OLwpukd provide. Taking what d gives and all and all not a bad plan. That last drive didn’t work but it wasn’t all scheme.

The last two weeks have been odd man. We’re on to our PS QB and starting WR is out as well as our starting TE. That really is a lot to overcome. No matter what people want to think.

That said, I’m not all in on Gase either. It’s just a wait and see time. I’m curious to see how the season develops.

. I’ll add that Bell has been a delight and Adams has been a child. Not sure what that all means Lol


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

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8 hours ago, New York Mick said:

I don’t lobby for anything, I’m stating facts which isn’t curling up in a ball. Ignoring a bad game by a coach and a pattern of bad decisions is nothing more the excepting the sh*t teams this franchise puts on the field year after year. 

If your Uber blows an engine you don't blame the driver for your inconvenience. 

The rash of injuries and illness that has beset the Jets is biblical, it's been 30 years since a HC has has to start 3 different QB's in the first 3 games of the season not to mention the other 6 missing starters.  Which leaves you two choices:

1.  Accept the bad luck, refrain from judgement, and wait for the roster to heal.

2.  Tell everyone "look at me I was right!" and lobby fans to rally against your brand new head coach.

It would be nice if you could be a #1 instead of a #2.

SAR I

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7 hours ago, rangerous said:

the injuries certainly have something to do with it.  from what i can tell the oline players are healthy.  they just aren't run blocking or pass protecting very well.  and even though darnold is talented he's still only a 2nd year player so it's hard to say they would've done any better with him in there.  they probably would've done better against the browns.  difficult to say against the patsies.

Jets weren't beating the Patriots in Foxboro under any circumstances.  That team is unbeatable up there and they are flying right now, not suffering from that September malaise like they usually do.

Jets had the Buffalo game won.  Based on the Browns struggles, I believe that Darnold and Mosely win that game too.  We'd be the talk of the NFL right now, not the Bills.  Injuries and sickness suck, truly do.

So I see a team with 2-1 talent unfortunately struck down by acts of God, nothing I can do about it.  So I wait for them to return to health and see how they do against the Eagles. 

SAR I

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6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

They got rid of Gase, who last year had that shltty team, led by Osweiler, contending for a playoff spot with a few weeks left in the season.

Gase looks like Lombardi in Miami compared to today's Dolphins

I don't live down there but I'd have to believe that when Gase opened 2017 at 1-4 they felt that the offense was a mess, Gase was overrated, etc.  And then he went 9-1.

In our current situation, needing a comeback-type season filled with remarkable runs of W's, you couldn't ask for a better HC than Adam Gase.  It's his biggest accomplishment as a head coach.

SAR I

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5 hours ago, TeddEY said:

The line stinks, the WRs stink, the TE is suspended, the RB is great but it’s irrelevant because the line stinks, and the QB is still a big question mark and hasn’t played.  That’s why they suck.

Agree completely.

But something happens when a 3rd string QB is replaced by a legitimate NFL starter-  defenses play you differently.  That's what happened in 2002 with run-down Testaverde.  After a game with Pennington flashing, suddenly the 'lousy' OL that couldn't run block or pass protect could do both, Curtis Martin found running room again, the WR's got open again, and we went on to win our division and a home playoff game.

Losing Darnold, as would the loss of any starting quarterback on any NFL team, completely changes the defense you're playing and the offensive playbook you're running.

SAR I

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3 hours ago, New York Mick said:

  He could bring in a blocking  tight end to help stop the pass rush and open holes for the RB,  he could put Bell and Montgomery in the backfield at the same time and spread one out or both out and you’ll have Bell or Montgomery matched up against a linebacker. If you have Bell and Montgomery in at the same time it gives you different looks and options. They can both run and catch.  Why are they not using Crowder out of the slot more? Just try something different. I feel like he’s being stubborn and thinking I’m running the same plays over and over again and eventually it’s going to work when they’re not getting more than a yard or two.

Man oh man.  That would have beaten the Patriots in Foxboro right there.  Bellichick wouldn't have known what hit him.  Falk would have thrown for 400 yards.

Damn it.  Where were you when we needed you?  Did you try to text this to Coach Gase?  Email?

SAR I

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1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Based on what?  Your speculation?

This may very well be as good as it gets with Kelvin Beachem, Luke Falk, and Robbie Anderson.

you dont get , Teddey, @Beerfish and @rammagen believe a coach can turn schitt to gold. 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2019

our OL ranks 29 of 32 in runblocking and 31 of 32 in pass blocking...   last year the OL bottomed out the NFL with highest % of runs stuffed for no gain or loss... 

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3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Man oh man.  That would have beaten the Patriots in Foxboro right there.  Bellichick wouldn't have known what hit him.  Falk would have thrown for 400 yards.

Damn it.  Where were you when we needed you?  Did you try to text this to Coach Gase?  Email?

SAR I

add to ignore list

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2 hours ago, rammagen said:

gase had a part in them becoming bad eggs, he alienated player right or wrongly. he played favorites in Miami. Now the excuse is Gase wanted out of miami and navigated himself out of his contract by screaming at the owner.

SAR that is few huge leaps of faith there bud. Gase had a huge part for that toxic atmosphere.

What is going to be the excuse if the Jets have a loosing season after him promising an explosive offense and delivering squat? How did that turn out for the phins?

Normally the simplest explanations are the true ones. Yes Gase has injuries but will/has not adjust to the game plans to put players into position to succeed. Gase thinks he is smarter then everyone else and has an ego which rubs people wrong.

Noting the above which has been reported before isn't easier to accept he might not be a good head coach (as his record indicates) and his success as Offensive coordinator is linked to qbs making all the adjustments at the line of scrimmage and rather then simplifying that process for other players he is a one trick play caller that wont adapt.

 

Just throwing that out there

Gase might suck.  He really might be awful.

Can we see what our offense looks like after the bye please?  With Darnold back and the OL working hard for 10 straight days on gelling?  How about we reserve judgement until another 4 or 8 games?

Even before the injuries and illnesses, this was a new team with 40% of the players new to their roles under new coaches and new playbooks.  That's hard enough.  Add to it the best O and D players unexpectedly out for 2 games and a 3rd string QB and facing 3 of the best D's in the NFL, it's a disaster.

The bye should correct a lot of this.  Let's give the man, and the team, a chance.

SAR I

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9 minutes ago, SAR I said:

If your Uber blows an engine you don't blame the driver for your inconvenience. 

The rash of injuries and illness that has beset the Jets is biblical, it's been 30 years since a HC has has to start 3 different QB's in the first 3 games of the season not to mention the other 6 missing starters.  Which leaves you two choices:

1.  Accept the bad luck, refrain from judgement, and wait for the roster to heal.

2.  Tell everyone "look at me I was right!" and lobby fans to rally against your brand new head coach.

It would be nice if you could be a #1 instead of a #2.

SAR I

I blame the Uber driver if he keeps getting stuck because he takes the same path over and over and over again when there’s different paths to try. 

I already addressed that twice maybe more. That has nothing to do with him calling a bad game. 

 I’ve also addressed this a few times. I’m not saying look at me I’m right anymore then the posters who think Gase is a football genius with zero to back it up.  I also said I am waiting to see how the team looks once the starters are back and it was stupid to fire him now or anytime during the season. My point which you and a few others keep twisting is he called  a bad game. Which he did. 

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10 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Man oh man.  That would have beaten the Patriots in Foxboro right there.  Bellichick wouldn't have known what hit him.  Falk would have thrown for 400 yards.

Damn it.  Where were you when we needed you?  Did you try to text this to Coach Gase?  Email?

SAR I

Try responding to the whole thing instead of editing it. I clearly said it might not help at all but at least he’s trying something different. 

Keep trying you might get there. 

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6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Gase might suck.  He really might be awful.

Can we see what our offense looks like after the bye please?  With Darnold back and the OL working hard for 10 straight days on gelling?  How about we reserve judgement until another 4 or 8 games?

Even before the injuries and illnesses, this was a new team with 40% of the players new to their roles under new coaches and new playbooks.  That's hard enough.  Add to it the best O and D players unexpectedly out for 2 games and a 3rd string QB and facing 3 of the best D's in the NFL, it's a disaster.

The bye should correct a lot of this.  Let's give the man, and the team, a chance.

SAR I

So with all the writing what's your take on the original premise?  Is Gase's scheme passe by today's standards?  Has it passed him by?  I take it you believe not.

I'm not so sure.  Dude hasn't run a top offense in 4-5 years.

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2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

As a coach your job is to get the best out of the hand you are dealt.

Gase has not done that.

He is supposed to be an awesome sauce offensive coach, the offense stinks.  He needs to do a hell of a lot better because he has not great record of success in his recent back ground.

(Also as usual people that defended the hell out of every single gm move over the last 5 years now shift the blame to the departed gm for everything,)

As a fan you're supposed to be able to see things the way they really are, not just whine.  Name the coaches who would succeed with Falk right off the PS for two day.  

(Also as usual people that defended the hell out of every single gm move over the last 5 years now shift the blame to the departed gm for everything,). So the answer is take the blame off of the GM you complained about incessantly and pile it onto the new HC.  Just need to have someone in place to complain about? 

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40 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Jets weren't beating the Patriots in Foxboro under any circumstances.  That team is unbeatable up there and they are flying right now, not suffering from that September malaise like they usually do.

Jets had the Buffalo game won.  Based on the Browns struggles, I believe that Darnold and Mosely win that game too.  We'd be the talk of the NFL right now, not the Bills.  Injuries and sickness suck, truly do.

So I see a team with 2-1 talent unfortunately struck down by acts of God, nothing I can do about it.  So I wait for them to return to health and see how they do against the Eagles. 

SAR I

unfortunately you are what your record says it is.  here's to hoping they get things straightened out, darnold and mosley back and winn some games.

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35 minutes ago, SAR I said:

 Agree completely.

But something happens when a 3rd string QB is replaced by a legitimate NFL starter-  defenses play you differently.  That's what happened in 2002 with run-down Testaverde.  After a game with Pennington flashing, suddenly the 'lousy' OL that couldn't run block or pass protect could do both, Curtis Martin found running room again, the WR's got open again, and we went on to win our division and a home playoff game.

Losing Darnold, as would the loss of any starting quarterback on any NFL team, completely changes the defense you're playing and the offensive playbook you're running.

 SAR I

Agreed.  Where you and I differ is how good we think they'll be once Darnold returns. 

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2 hours ago, Prestige Worldwide said:

I think the jury is still out on Gase.

But the one thing I will say

You can't run a number 1 offense when your offense is filled with 2nd and 3rd stringers. 

Bell and Crowder are the only two players on offense that would be starting on any other team

Maybe Sam and Herndon

 

No one disputes that we have poor talent on offense and it is no wonder with the lack of resources put into it over the years.

The issue is that in previous years we have had just as poor talent and guys like morton, gailey, bates showed a bit more than what we have seen.

Gase is an offensive coach, a highly touted offensive coach and the O looks worse than when we had jag or old ocs running the show.

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