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DMan77

"Pitiful offensive line"

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On 9/30/2019 at 5:35 AM, jgb said:

Me too, but I was scolded for suggesting we should draft a guard that high.  2 pro bowls later... of course Skins took him before we were on clock so moot.

Yeah and now people are screaming to sign Scherff to $75 million contract

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On 10/1/2019 at 8:09 AM, joewilly12 said:

Are Jets giving up on Ryan Kalil experiment?

Updated 7:25 AM; Today 5:11 AM 
NFL Week 1: N.Y. Jets lose to Buffalo Bills

Andrew Mills | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

New York Jets center Ryan Kalil came out of retirement to sign with the Jets on August 1, but has struggled mightily through three games.

 
 
 
 

It’s no secret: The Jets’ offensive line is bad. Really, really bad.

Head coach Adam Gase knows it. Offensive line coach Frank Pollackknows it.

So, all options are on the table as they attempt to fix the issue in practice this week, fresh off some self-scouting during the bye and ahead of Sunday’s trip to face the Eagles.

“We just have to keep looking and figure out: What are the best five guys for us?” Gase said.

In other words: Lineup changes may be in the works.

After Gase hinted at a potential shakeup, he was asked about it directly – and doubled down.

“We’re going to work through that this week and kind of figure out what’s best for us to do for Sunday,” Gase said. "I would just say this: All of those guys that we’re coming in this week, we’re competing and we’re going to put the five guys we think give us the best chance out there. I’m not really sure who that’s going to be quite yet.”

So, obviously, Gase didn’t come right out and say which players are on the chopping block and which backups could be in line for a promotion.

But, if Gase and Pollack are weighing their starting options, they’ll surely have to start those evaluations by examining the center spot.

Ryan Kalil has played in three games since coming out of retirement and all three have turned into a debacle. In fact, he has the lowest performance grade of any Jets offensive starter, according to ProFootballFocus.com’s metrics.

Believe it or not, Kalil’s performances look even worse when stacked up against the rest of the league. There are 153 offensive linemen who have played at least half of their team’s snaps so far this season. Kalil is ranked 145th among that group, per PFF. And if you limit the pool to the NFL’s 32 starting centers, Kalil checks in 30th.

Clearly, his transition from the couch has not gone according to general manager Joe Douglas’ plan.

On the bright side, center is also the one spot on the offensive line where the Jets have some semblance of depth. Backup Jonotthan Harrison played seven games last season and put together a passable, if unspectacular, performance during that stretch. He was decent again in Week 2, when he checked in for Kalil during the fourth quarter; Harrison ranks 17th among the 37 centers to see playing time this season, though his 18 snaps are clearly a small sample size.

Other changes the Jets could consider? Rookie Chuma Edoga could feasibly fill in at one of the tackle spots or Alex Lewis could plug in at guard. But those moves would be riskier; Edoga has never played in an NFL game, while Lewis missed most of the past two-and-a-half seasons due to injury. Tom Compton is really the only other backup on the Jets’ roster with extensive starting experience; he started 14 games at left guard last season for the Vikings.

While the other four starters – left tackle Kelvin Beachum, left guard Kelechi Osemele, right guard Brian Winters and right tackle Brandon Shell – have all had enough ugly moments to at least warrant some discussion, none have been as consistently subpar as Kalil.

For what it’s worth, Gase did also hint at more changes than simply swapping in some new personnel. He added that the Jets have to clean up both their coaching and their play calling; so, he and Pollack are sharing some of the blame in this mess, too.

But, clearly, he thinks a benching or two could help spark this unit moving forward, otherwise he would have shot the idea down on the spot.

 

Instead, he embraced it time and time again.

“When you’re 0-3, if things stay the same, then that’s our fault,” Gase said. "We have to figure out what the best thing for us to do is moving forward.”

Kalil absolutely has to be benched

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58 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Kalil absolutely has to be benched

CUT would be better or make him retire again. 

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5 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Yeah and now people are screaming to sign Scherff to $75 million contract

Not a bad idea. When you fail at the draft you gotta pony up.

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IF AG trots out the same OL and IF (a big if) SAM plays, and they do not perform any better then the last few games then IMHO he is finished. 

I read a few weeks back that there are players that haven't bought into his system...  Its understandable when the guys  record is 0-6 (last three games in Miami) 0-3 here.  

Lets hope whatever changes he makes ( and not just blowing smoke for the scribes) works and the OL at least functions as a unit.   If not fellows this is going to get uglier then it is now and the team may (probably will) implode...

 

   

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9 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

Has nothing to do with Joe D's feelings.  It has to do with fact that Gase lobbied for this guy, won the battle with CJ to fire Macc and may not want to show him up by benching one of his key signings.  Makes Gase look bad as well.  That's all...

IDK, just my opinion, but I think you have to take the Khalil signing for what it is.   JD, got in here and between he and Gase decided the OL situation was worse than they thought.   They took a chance on a player that had some success but was on the coach.   Lets face it, at the time of year he was signed, it's not like there are even serviceable players looking to sign...they are already in camp.   Took a swing and missed.   Sit him and play the back up and move on and file under lessons learned.   Maybe luring a player out of retirement is not necessarily the best action.   Probably should have waited for cuts and brought in more bodies via that avenue.   Long term, I really don't think JD will be  (or at least he shouldn't be) on this desperate move.

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Haven't seen the PFF grades or any of that stuff but yesterday sure felt like a better performance, no?

I'm no coach or X's and O's expert but it felt like Dallas held off on rushing too many guys out of respect for what Sam could do... And the Jets started out by running a lot of pass plays over the middle of the field... Sort of wondering if that made the Dallas LBs stay back a little bit and out of Sams face. 

He was still on the move a lot but overall I thought the OL looked much better. I didn't see as many completely missed blocks or missed assignments this time around. 

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3 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

Haven't seen the PFF grades or any of that stuff but yesterday sure felt like a better performance, no?

I'm no coach or X's and O's expert but it felt like Dallas held off on rushing too many guys out of respect for what Sam could do... And the Jets started out by running a lot of pass plays over the middle of the field... Sort of wondering if that made the Dallas LBs stay back a little bit and out of Sams face. 

He was still on the move a lot but overall I thought the OL looked much better. I didn't see as many completely missed blocks or missed assignments this time around. 

 

"Much" better?  No.  This entire OL is still garbage and looked like garbage yesterday.  Just because Sam had a good day doesn't mean they did their job better than they did with Falk.  Good QB's make their OL's look better.  Sam was taking shots back there.   

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

"Much" better?  No.  This entire OL is still garbage.  Just because Sam had a good day doesn't mean they did their job better than they did with Falk.  Good QB's make their OL's look better.  Sam was taking shots back there.   

It seemed like every completion he made he was sidestepping a rusher and stepping up in the pocket. A good QB with spatial awareness, pocket presence, and his ability to keep his eyes downfield masks a lot of deficiencies a guy like Falk cannot.

I'm curious what Sam could do with an elite line that gives him time.

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9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

"Much" better?  No.  This entire OL is still garbage and looked like garbage yesterday.  Just because Sam had a good day doesn't mean they did their job better than they did with Falk.  Good QB's make their OL's look better.  Sam was taking shots back there.   

I don't know, I thought they looked better... Only 2 sacks and 6 official pressures. Kalil at C had the best win-block rate on the team for once, which is pretty much what you want for your center.

They weren't perfect and of course Sam had to dance and move...

But it was a noticeable difference from the last few weeks to me. 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, DMan77 said:

I don't know, I thought they looked better... Only 2 sacks and 6 official pressures. Kalil at C had the best win-block rate on the team for once, which is pretty much what you want for your center.

They weren't perfect and of course Sam had to dance and move...

But it was a noticeable difference from the last few weeks to me. 

 

 

It definitely was better. They handled stunts better, which were killing them before. 

Curious to see how they handle Beachum out. 

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One guy who seemed invisible yesterday was DeMarcus Lawrence.  Quinn brought pressure, beating both Beachum early and Shell late, but nothing from Lawrence on the other side.  Hopefully that is a sign that Edoga handled him pretty well.  

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9 minutes ago, Lith said:

One guy who seemed invisible yesterday was DeMarcus Lawrence.  Quinn brought pressure, beating both Beachum early and Shell late, but nothing from Lawrence on the other side.  Hopefully that is a sign that Edoga handled him pretty well.  

Lewis and Edoga are the two who might have an actual future as starting OL pieces.

Even if Osemele comes back healthy, to hell with sitting Lewis. Let Keleche take Winters’ job if need be.

I’ve never been one to take PFF ratings as gospel, but Lewis graded out as their 4th ranked OG last week and followed it up with another damn good performance yesterday, just judging by the old eyeball test.

Edoga on the other hand was putrid against the Eagles and then routinely smacked the piss out of Lawrence. One helluva second start.

Get these two as much playing time as possible the rest of the year.

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14 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Good QB's make their OL's look better.  Sam was taking shots back there.   

Mostly this...  but guys didnt come running free into the pocket so often...

So , imho, the OL did make a slight improvement. Still woeful in running game.

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Seems that incompetent OLs are becoming more and more common. Is the position becoming more complex/more difficult to perform at a high level? 

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8 hours ago, jgb said:

Seems that incompetent OLs are becoming more and more common. Is the position becoming more complex/more difficult to perform at a high level? 

Yes, because of all the spread/RPO offenses in college.  Guys are coming into the league unprepared.  

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Pass blocking looked a lot better vs. Dallas. Certainly Darnold's ability to evade pressure helped, but still there were a lot fewer plays where there was quick pressure. Kalil looked a lot better. His holding penalty looked very iffy and came from a flag-happy officiating crew.

Run blocking still is nearly non-existent, though.  I hope JD's prioritizes a LT and C in the first three rounds of the upcoming draft.  Maybe sign a good free agent G and also draft another solid OL prospect in the middle rounds. 

 

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