Elite QBs make their own weaponz, not the other way around

[FireTheJohnsons]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Yep, just tired of the argument “well we don’t know if Sanchez/Geno/Sanchez is [BLANK] because weaponz.”

You can tell by year two if a QB has it. 

See, this is where I kind of disagree with you. Short of the elite guy, everyone else needs weapons to look good. When Sancehz had weapons around him, he went to two back to back championship games. He had major flaws, major flaws with turnovers. And those flaws were accentuated when the talent around him dissipated. Sanchez was never, ever going to be elite. But if he could have removed the turnovers, you proved you could win with him with the right talent around him. Maybe he never could remove the turnovers, I don't know, but QB;s develop over time, and at different paces. Some guys get it right away, some get it over years. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

See, this is where I kind of disagree with you. Short of the elite guy, everyone else needs weapons to look good. When Sancehz had weapons around him, he went to two back to back championship games. He had major flaws, major flaws with turnovers. And those flaws were accentuated when the talent around him dissipated. Sanchez was never, ever going to be elite. But if he could have removed the turnovers, you proved you could win with him with the right talent around him. Maybe he never could remove the turnovers, I don't know, but QB;s develop over time, and at different paces. Some guys get it right away, some get it over years. 

I’m not satisfied with a Sanchez level guy. He was mediocre with a great cast. Red flags were waving all over the place and yet his performance was excused. Then Geno... Hell, people still make excuses for that mush for brains. Darnold will show it this year or he won’t. If he doesn’t and we have a high pick, I’d move on.

[GreenFish]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yep, just tired of the argument “well we don’t know if Sanchez/Geno/Sanchez is [BLANK] because weaponz.”

You can tell by year two if a QB has it. 

I agree. What would you expect from a good QB with a poor offensive line and average weapons? 

I agree that If you put an elite QB on the Jets, we’ll have a good offense. Trying to set my expectations of what a good QB would do in our situation?

Tons of variables. I still go back to Darnold playing well towards the end of last year. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

I agree. What would you expect from a good QB with a poor offensive line and average weapons? 

I agree that If you put an elite QB on the Jets, we’ll have a good offense. Trying to set my expectations of what a good QB would do in our situation?

Tons of variables. I still go back to Darnold playing well towards the end of last year. 

I’m with you. If Darnold plays 8 games this year, we will have all the data we need to say whether he will be a success. One of many things that’s really hurt Jets in recent past is inability to accept failure quickly. Clinging to Hack may well have cost us Watson/Mahomes.

[FireTheJohnsons]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

I’m not satisfied with a Sanchez level guy. He was mediocre with a great cast. Red flags were waving all over the place and yet his performance was excused. Then Geno... Hell, people still make excuses for that mush for brains. Darnold will show it this year or he won’t. If he doesn’t and we have a high pick, I’d move on.

I don't want to make this about Sanchez, he is history. I'd prefer better too. My point is that otuside of the elite guy, you need some talent around them to see what they can do and evaluate them. They need time to throw, and open receivers to throw to. If they have those things and cant get it done over some period of time, you move on and hope the next guy is the guy. But you prove nothing IMO if you can't evaluate a guy under at least somewhat decent conditions where there is someone to throw to and you occasionally get some time to throw. 

Its never good to judge on outliers, and elite guys are outliers

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

I don't want to make this about Sanchez, he is history. I'd prefer better too. My point is that otuside of the elite guy, you need some talent around them to see what they can do and evaluate them. They need time to throw, and open receivers to throw to. If they have those things and cant get it done over some period of time, you move on and hope the next guy is the guy. But you prove nothing IMO if you can't evaluate a guy under at least somewhat decent conditions where there is someone to throw to and you occasionally get some time to throw. 

Its never good to judge on outliers, and elite guys are outliers

Scouts have to evaluate prospects in a completely different game—college ball, and extrapolate that to NFL performance. You can evaluate an NFL player on any NFL team after two years. It’s fine for fans to demand the perfect circumstances before passing an opinion on a player but professional evaluators don’t have that luxury. Anyone who doesn’t have that skill shouldn’t be an NFL GM.

[FireTheJohnsons]

15 minutes ago, jgb said:

Scouts have to evaluate prospects in a completely different game—college ball, and extrapolate that to NFL performance. You can evaluate an NFL player on any NFL team after two years. It’s fine for fans to demand the perfect circumstances before passing an opinion on a player but professional evaluators don’t have that luxury. Anyone who doesn’t have that skill shouldn’t be an NFL GM.

I think in the majority of cases, I agree with you. However, Its not always so cut and dry. This is why I also think crappy organizations have a harder time finding the guy than good ones. Darnold is already in his 2nd system in 2 years, and has an awful roster around him. Regardless of what anyone thinks, that is a much harder situaiton to succeed in than a good system in place for a few years with good coaching and good talent around.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

I think in the majority of cases, I agree with you. However, Its not always so cut and dry. This is why I also think crappy organizations have a harder time finding the guy than good ones. Darnold is already in his 2nd system in 2 years, and has an awful roster around him. Regardless of what anyone thinks, that is a much harder situaiton to succeed in than a good system in place for a few years with good coaching and good talent around.

Don’t think he needs to succeed in the traditional sense. He needs to show whatever signs of being the guy are important to a professional NFL GM, which I have been told repeatedly Joe Douglas is.

[FireTheJohnsons]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

Don’t think he needs to succeed in the traditional sense. He needs to show whatever signs of being the guy are important to a professional NFL GM, which I have been told repeatedly Joe Douglas is.

Agree with you there, we need to see a half of season of Darnold and see if he has the ability to be the guy or not, and if not, we will be drafting really high again and it would make sense to get another QB. Ideally, Sam will be the guy and we can use the draft to fill all the other holes.

[Larz]

[BornJetsFan1983]

9 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Can they make lineman too?

I wish