How to create $95.5 million in cap space for 2020 to be able to sign the best OL, WR, and CB in free agency.

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, Lith said:

Good post.  The other thing that often seems to be overlopked in FA is that it is the player's choice where he wants to go.  I always hear that we need to sign this guy or that guy in FA.  Like it is just our option.  Then it turns out one guy has no interest playing in NY, another guy wants to play for a winner, not a team likely to be coming off 5 straight 10+ loss seasons.  I wish it was as easy as saying lets free up money and sign this guy or that guy.  Unfortunately its not that simple.  The only real long term answer to a rebuild is, IMO, the draft.  It may take a bit longer, and I can understand losing patience oafter a 9th straight lost season.  But this is likely a 2 to 3 year rebuild.  Again.  Hopefully Douglas gets it right.

Agreed.  Plus the talent pool in free agency is always marginal, especially at the positions of most need for the Jets.  

[Hael]

4 hours ago, Skeptable said:

If you cut them you get no comp picks... Haha... Comp picks are for players you lose due to FA.. Robby Anderson and Leo are those players.... And the Jets are going to spend too much to get any comp picks... 

Who said anything about cutting them?   In general having a healthy pipeline of diamonds in the rough that come out of your football program is the key to success.  They play out their contracts, and you then get compensated for their success by having them sign big contracts with other teams.  Alternatively, you sign the ones that are still undervalued relative to their free market value.

What you don't do, is what Mac did for the past five years, where he would sign the 'rockstar' player with the max possible cap hit.  The fans and critics love the move, but it sinks your football team faster than any amount of bad drafting can possibly accomplish bc they are almost never worth those sorts of sums 

For instance, letting a potentially rising star like Poole go, might be the right move after this year.  We might not be able to afford him if he keeps playing the way he does, and that's usually a good thing. 

[shuler82]

$95.5 million with 2/3 of a roster to build. 

[Paradis]

Shocking; our collection of busted toys bought at inflated market price don’t work. 

I know, let’s spend even more on the same thing!

[Skeptable]

14 minutes ago, Hael said:

Who said anything about cutting them?   In general having a healthy pipeline of diamonds in the rough that come out of your football program is the key to success.  They play out their contracts, and you then get compensated for their success by having them sign big contracts with other teams.  Alternatively, you sign the ones that are still undervalued relative to their free market value.

What you don't do, is what Mac did for the past five years, where he would sign the 'rockstar' player with the max possible cap hit.  The fans and critics love the move, but it sinks your football team faster than any amount of bad drafting can possibly accomplish bc they are almost never worth those sorts of sums 

For instance, letting a potentially rising star like Poole go, might be the right move after this year.  We might not be able to afford him if he keeps playing the way he does, and that's usually a good thing. 

The OPs whole post is about salaries to cut... Wtf are you talking about

[Hael]

56 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

The OPs whole post is about salaries to cut... Wtf are you talking about

Try to follow the thread please.  I was responding to Gastineau's comment.

[Skeptable]

38 minutes ago, Hael said:

Try to follow the thread please.  I was responding to Gastineau's comment.

Follow the thread... I was commenting on the OP... a$$hole... You chose to go after me

[ItsTheSameOldJets]

OP should work for the team, least he is doing a little bit more work 

[JohnnyLV]

8 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

What happens when the slaves (?) you just drafted a few years ago become high priced free agents themselves, since they're all awesome? Are you allowed to sign them or do they become yucky too and you draft the new awesome players?

In house free agents are a separate category than bidding on a Day 0 FA their current team does not want

[The Voice of Reason]

6 hours ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Brandon scherff should be target number one

Or a trade for Trent Williams

[Hael]

7 hours ago, Skeptable said:

If you cut them you get no comp picks... Haha... Comp picks are for players you lose due to FA.. Robby Anderson and Leo are those players.... And the Jets are going to spend too much to get any comp picks... 

Umm you were responding to my post..  My post was responding to Gastineau. 

What part do you not understand...  (or Voice of Reason for that matter too, since he keeps butt fumbling me)

[Gastineau Lives]

20 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

In house free agents are a separate category than bidding on a Day 0 FA their current team does not want

Do not want? Please explain

[peekskill68]

 I don't understand the Robby hate.  With the exception of Bell and maybe Herndon this team has NO playmakers.  Why take a guy who can stretch a defense and let him walk for a comp pick lottery ticket?  He's not a WR1 but assuming he's not nutting in anyone's eye off the field, I would retain him and draft a true WR1 to go with him and Crowder. 

[Jetsbaby93]

4 hours ago, CurtMart said:

All these below average guys are Maccs garbage. I’d be surprised if it did NOT happen. 

Im going off the fact you cant hace two big spending sprees with the contracts you have coming up and players you will need to retain in the future. People just think you cut a couple guys go big game hunting every year don't you think every team would be doing that 

[ASH1962]

10 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

What happens when the slaves (?) you just drafted a few years ago become high priced free agents themselves, since they're all awesome? Are you allowed to sign them or do they become yucky too and you draft the new awesome players?

Slaves? Poor choice of words my friend.

[joewilly12]

 2h2 hours ago

More

2020 NFL Draft Order After Week 5 http://bit.ly/2nhOPIK  #NFL

 

 

 

[Gastineau Lives]

11 minutes ago, ASH1962 said:

Slaves? Poor choice of words my friend.

How?

[BCJet]

6 hours ago, Lith said:

Good post.  The other thing that often seems to be overlooked in FA is that it is the player's choice where he wants to go.  I always hear that we need to sign this guy or that guy in FA.  Like it is just our option.  Then it turns out one guy has no interest playing in NY, another guy wants to play for a winner, not a team likely to be coming off 4 straight 10+ loss seasons.  I wish it was as easy as saying lets free up money and sign this guy or that guy.  Unfortunately its not that simple.  The only real long term answer to a rebuild is, IMO, the draft.  It may take a bit longer, and I can understand losing patience oafter a 9th straight lost season.  But this is likely a 2 to 3 year rebuild.  Again.  Hopefully Douglas gets it right.

While I don’t disagree with the premise of your post I think there is ample evidence of Mac being completely abnormal in his dealings with free agents. 

Both Myers and Andre Roberts essentially said they had no contact from the team let alone an offer. How does a GM not even call to see what a player wants. 

Then there is the center situation. In 2 years we saw Ryan Jensen, Weston Richburg, Morse and Paradis all change teams when we had a need and cap space.  I find it impossible to believe none of them wanted to play here especially considering Jensen who went to the Bucs. 

Im sure the Jets last disfunction has played a role but in most cases these guys take the biggest check unless your GM incompetently ignores them...... 

[jason423]

Id think most of these are realistic. Just two things to note- the June 1 is not going to be available to teams if a new CBA is not reached. Using the June 1 also would require keeping Johnsons full cap charge on the books until June 2. 

The other is that Enunwa has a bunch of injury protection in his deal. Based on what it seems his health is like Im not sure he can be cut. It was a bad deal when signed and made much worse by the fact he got hurt again. 

[Jetster]

16 hours ago, The Voice of Reason said:

Or a trade for Trent Williams

How about both? 

[Jetster]

20 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  Plus the talent pool in free agency is always marginal, especially at the positions of most need for the Jets.  

Always marginal? We got Le'veon Bell in free agency & Mosely. Based on the contracts the other top RBs are signing like Zeke Elliott, Bells contract was totally in line with a top 5 back. 

If Idzik & Macc did not totally ignore the Oline over the last 8 years we'd have the skill players to at least compete. 

Is Mosely overpaid? I guess a bit but it's all relative when you compare Moselys talent & salary to the 5/6 overpaid JAGS on this team like Enunwa, KO, Williams, Beachum, Kalil, Tru. 

Crowder was a good free agent signing too. 

[Skeptable]

7 hours ago, jason423 said:

Id think most of these are realistic. Just two things to note- the June 1 is not going to be available to teams if a new CBA is not reached. Using the June 1 also would require keeping Johnsons full cap charge on the books until June 2. 

The other is that Enunwa has a bunch of injury protection in his deal. Based on what it seems his health is like Im not sure he can be cut. It was a bad deal when signed and made much worse by the fact he got hurt again. 

I keep saying that about enunwa... He is injured... Unless fully recovered before the start of the season enunwa is going to be paid because you can't cut him with injury guarantee

[Jetster]

14 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

I keep saying that about enunwa... He is injured... Unless fully recovered before the start of the season enunwa is going to be paid because you can't cut him with injury guarantee

Enunwa is another example of the Jets resigning their own Jags because they were so bad at drafting these guys are the best they have. They drafted players like Stewart over Godwin. Time & again they chose the wrong WRs. Idzik missed in a draft FULL of WRs, with 12 picks he just sat tight instead of targeting & moving up. Then you had Macc missing on Smith, Stewart, Hanson. These guys had more whiffs than Dave Kingman. 

[bla bla bla]

22 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I disagree on Williamson. They are already paying Mosley huge money. Tying up that much money at the ILB position isn't a smart allocation of resources. 

Hopefully Hewitt and/or Cashman develop well this season and one of them can play next to Mosley next year. Or you can draft somebody in the middle rounds like they just did with Cashman. 

I'd keep Williamson, the only reason you should cut him is if his salary prevents you from acquiring more talent. If Williamson were playing right now we probably have at least a win against the Bills.

Realistically there is no way we are going to eat up all that cap space with players having different priorities on playing location.

[sec101row23]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

Always marginal? We got Le'veon Bell in free agency & Mosely. Based on the contracts the other top RBs are signing like Zeke Elliott, Bells contract was totally in line with a top 5 back. 

If Idzik & Macc did not totally ignore the Oline over the last 8 years we'd have the skill players to at least compete. 

Is Mosely overpaid? I guess a bit but it's all relative when you compare Moselys talent & salary to the 5/6 overpaid JAGS on this team like Enunwa, KO, Williams, Beachum, Kalil, Tru. 

Crowder was a good free agent signing too. 

Yes marginal, especially at the positions the Jets desperately need.  Where are the OT’s, WR’s, CBs and edge rushers that flood free agency every year?  They don’t.  And yes Crowder is marginal, Bell and Mosley are a RB and ILBer, not premium positions.  

I guess you guys can have all these wet dreams and fantasies about all these FA scenarios, but the reality is that the eventual talent pool in free agency is marginal, most of the guys being talked about in October will get franchised or signed before the March deadline, leaving behind the marginal guys who are either on the wrong side of 30, often injured or simply just a JAG.   

[FidelioJet]

On 10/8/2019 at 7:06 AM, JetFaninMI said:

You build your team's foundation through the draft and supplement it through FA. It's a delicate balance and that's why you need a competent guy in the GM position. That is something the Jets have not had in a while. Is Douglas it? We shall see. That's why you can't go all in FA. It's been tried by this team many times and hasn't worked. Some fans haven't learned that yet. It's a painful lesson but a needed one.

I think every fan understands this - but it's not like they're rooting for the Jets to draft bad players.

If there's no one to pay on your own team you have to try and lock in the best FA's you can.  What's the alternative? not even try?

 

[PCP63]

On 10/8/2019 at 2:41 AM, johnnysd said:

No more big ticket free agents. No more big ticket free agents. NO MORE.

Worst possible way to try and buiild a team. Build through draft, UDFA and mid tier free agent signings as well as waiver claims. Sit out the first few days of free agency.

Fool's gold.

"lose" free agency every year and we will be on the way to building a team with depth and versatility. 

 

 

 

I think you need a good mix. Why? Drafting is nothing more than an educated guess. At least with FA, you're dealing with proven commodities. 

[FidelioJet]

5 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

I think you need a good mix. Why? Drafting is nothing more than an educated guess. At least with FA, you're dealing with proven commodities. 

Draft is MUCH more than an educated guess.  For instance, almost entirely ignoring the O-Line for 5 years in the draft is moronic.  Shows a complete and utter lack of understanding of the league.  

 

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Skeptable said:

I keep saying that about enunwa... He is injured... Unless fully recovered before the start of the season enunwa is going to be paid because you can't cut him with injury guarantee

I don't know how you keep him.  How do you keep a guy on your roster, taking the place from someone else, having him take practice reps - with the understanding that he's almost certainly going to get injured in the first quarter of the season?  Nice player but he's made of glass.  Cut bait and move on. 

[FidelioJet]

30 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Yes marginal, especially at the positions the Jets desperately need.  Where are the OT’s, WR’s, edge rushers that flood free agency every year?  They don’t.  And yes Crowder is marginal, Bell and Mosley are a RB and ILBer, not premium positions.  

I guess you guys can have all these wet dreams and fantasies about all these FA scenarios, but the reality is that the eventual talent pool in free agency is marginal, most of the guys being talked about in October will get franchised or signed before the March deadline, leaving behind the marginal guys who are either on the wrong side of 30, often injured or simply just a JAG.   

Again, what do you suggest they do? 

It's very easy to say "Draft better" as if they're not trying to do that....If you have no one worth signing on your current roster you have to at least try and build the best team you can. 

I don't think any fan or GM for that matter goes into FA thinking the players are lock.  We understand, we just don't have another option than to at least try.

[Skeptable]

2 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't know how you keep him.  How do you keep a guy on your roster, taking the place from someone else, having him take practice reps - with the understanding that he's almost certainly going to get injured in the first quarter of the season?  Nice player but he's made of glass.  Cut bait and move on. 

You pay him either way... There is no cap savings if he is hurt... You have to pay his whole contract 

[FidelioJet]

Just now, Skeptable said:

You pay him either way... There is no cap savings if he is hurt... You have to pay his whole contract 

Sure, I get it..but I don't want a guy on my roster that won't be able to play.  I would rather fill the spot with a cheap undrafted FA that maybe has a shot to be something than bring in a guy that's only going to waste practice reps.

[sec101row23]

34 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Again, what do you suggest they do? 

It's very easy to say "Draft better" as if they're not trying to do that....If you have no one worth signing on your current roster you have to at least try and build the best team you can. 

I don't think any fan or GM for that matter goes into FA thinking the players are lock.  We understand, we just don't have another option than to at least try.

The point isn’t to not sign FAs, they HAVE to spend the money, but the solutions to the issues the Jets have are not going to be solved through free agency.  You’ve watched this play out year after year with these FA classes.  You’re not solving OT, Edge, WR, CB through free agency.  Sign all the JAG over priced FAs you want, it’s just more of the same.  

[FidelioJet]

2 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

The point isn’t to not sign FAs, they HAVE to spend the money, but the solutions to the issues the Jets have are not going to be solved through free agency.  You’ve watched this play out year after year with these FA classes.  You’re not solving OT, Edge, WR, CB through free agency.  Sign all the JAG over priced FAs you want, it’s just more of the same.  

Agreed.  But I think my point was everyone knows this - but when we're faced with FA or nothing, as fans, what are we supposed to do?  We get excited and hope for the best.

[Untouchable]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Yes marginal, especially at the positions the Jets desperately need.  Where are the OT’s, WR’s, CBs and edge rushers that flood free agency every year?  They don’t.  And yes Crowder is marginal, Bell and Mosley are a RB and ILBer, not premium positions.  

I guess you guys can have all these wet dreams and fantasies about all these FA scenarios, but the reality is that the eventual talent pool in free agency is marginal, most of the guys being talked about in October will get franchised or signed before the March deadline, leaving behind the marginal guys who are either on the wrong side of 30, often injured or simply just a JAG.   

I agree for the most part

But I think there will be some talent along the OL available and that’s where I would look to invest.

I’m not paying guys like Byron Jones, Yannick Nagakoue, or Shaq Barrett.

But if Brandon Scherff hits the market, I’d have no objections about making him the highest paid OG in football. I think there’s a decent chance that the Titans let Conklin test the market as well. He was arguably the best RT in the NFL for his first 2-3 years in the league.

I wouldn’t even worry about the defense to be honest. The unit is at least competent as a whole. I’d invest damn near every draft pick and free agent dollar into the OL and WR corps.

Going into next season with, say, Scherff, Conklin, Wirfs and Biadasz added to the OL would be a wet dream come true.