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maybe it's time to take a breath on gase

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1 minute ago, JiF said:

I've read it multiple times, no clue what you're trying to say.  Are you saying that scoring 8 points while being gifted 4 turnovers and the D still outscored you on the day is excusable display of incompetence because Darnold was 85% and the Bills D is good?  

How many times does it need to be repeated,  Darnold was sick and the Bills D was good.  The offense set up 12 points.  K cost us 4.  We scored enough to beat a top 3 defense.  Low scores happen, we should have won, we didn’t.  Happens.  
 

To blame games 2-4 on coaching is frankly stupid, we were losing no matter the CS and is pure whining about a HC most of those whining didn’t want from day 1.  

 

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20 minutes ago, bigalbarracuda said:

Also, Frank Pollack is a well-respected OL coach, it's not like we have a first-year newb coaching them -- sadly we've seen worse case scenario with the OL as KO and Kalil are essentially done, and Beachum, Winters, Shell are who we thought they were. The worst part to me is Shell because I really thought we had a solid contributor in him.  

It's been said many times but the negligence with drafting OL has been criminal. Would love nothing more than a Brick-Mangold type investment in the next draft. Nothing else matters. 

Gotta disagree.....IMHO Beachum, Winters, Shell have regressed.  Also if Kalil is "done" then the HC is at fault for starting him.  It's beyond me why people are going out of their way to defend Gase.   

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8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

If you didn’t see a difference between the 3 QBs im sorry for you and there’s no point to reading anything else.  It not only wrong it doesn’t give credit to the Bills D or the fact that Darnold had to be effected by the mono he was dealing with.  
 

iAgain the narrative that the offenses issues are a coaching issue, thyroid someone else would have fixed the issues is so simplistic that it’s funny

Yes, coaching has nothing to do with anything happening in Jets land.

Meanwhile, the players just held a "players only meeting".

Solid assessment of the situation, Jet Nut!

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

How many times does it need to be repeated,  Darnold was sick and the Bills D was good.  The offense set up 12 points.  K cost us 4.  We scored enough to beat a top 3 defense.  Low scores happen, we should have won, we didn’t.  Happens.  
 

To blame games 2-4 on coaching is frankly stupid, we were losing no matter the CS and is pure whining about a HC most of those whining didn’t want from day 1.  

 

It's not about wins and losses Jet Nut.  Read my posts if you're going to respond. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Don't we HAVE a mostly entire new O-line, an O-Line Gase himself had a hand in putting together and choosing to start?

Ugh, no

Bit yeah the guy who did lost his job partly  for this reason.  Let’s blame Gase.  So simple   

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17 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's not about wins and losses Jet Nut.  Read my posts if you're going to respond. 

And wins and losses are affected by the QBs more than anything else.  OL failure exasperated the loss of Darnold 

I’ll respond with this or any simplistic theory that it’s all on the HC.  As if anyone else would have won one single game with Falk against the Browns, Pats or Eagles.  Or to your point that the offense would have looked good

if that theory is hard for some to swallow it’s on them, I’ll keep saying it.  W/Ls aren’t talent driven, discus it, do go all Warfish and ignore what you don’t agree with

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4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And wins and losses are affected by the QBs more than anything else.  OL failure exasperated the loss of Darnold 

I’ll respond with this y to o any simplistic theory that it’s all on the HC as if anyone else would have won one single game with Falk against the Browns, Pats or Eagles.  

if that theory is hard for some to swallow it’s on them, I’ll keep saying it.  W/Ls aren’t talent driven, discus it, do go all Warfish and ignore what you don’t agree with

Ok, good talk!  Have a nice day!

 

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14 minutes ago, JiF said:

Yes, coaching has nothing to do with anything happening in Jets land.

Meanwhile, the players just held a "players only meeting".

Solid assessment of the situation, Jet Nut!

You know why players hold a players only meeting?  I guess not if you think it proves anything about coaching.  
 

And my reasons makes far more than the simplistic response that the losses are on the coach.   Because that’s mindless by not taking into account the reality of the team 

 

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Just now, JiF said:

Ok, good talk!  Have a nice day!

 

Perfect

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Jets fans are amongst the most absurd fans in the league. Will Gase be good, who knows? But to want to fire him for coaching a team that has very little talent on the first team, and in my opinion the worst depth in the league, all of which he had little to no hand in building, is ridiculous.

Our previous 2 GM’s put zero emphasis on the OL. Zero. From 2009-2014 there are 2 players still on the team, Enunwa and Winters. 40 players drafted in that timeframe, 2 on the team. That’s the timeframe of players that should be well into or at least entering the prime of their career and we have 2 guys, neither of which are all that good. That is abominably bad.

Since that point the players still on the team not including the most recent draft are

Darnold
Adams
L Williams
Maye
Herndon
Fatukasi
Cannon
Edwards
Shell
Jenkins

That’s 10 out of 28 picks. 5 of which likely won’t be on the team next year. Adams and Darnold are the only two with potential to be among the better players in the league at their position.

We’ve already cut one of the 2019 picks, and none of the others other than Q look to be impactful players.

12 players on the team drafter from 2009 through 2018, 7 of which will likely be gone next season. This all fronted by a former 6th round pick in his 2nd season who clearly isn’t ready to even sniff an nfl field, much less start a game.

We have no depth at all, poor starters in most positions, and no QB. What do you seriously expect? We are a team needing a major overhaul, and you have to give these guys the time to do it.


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imo, comparing to the bellichicken isn't quite right.  but one thing these jets may compare to are some of the expansion teams that came in and succeeded.  miami under shula, dallas under landry, the ravens under billick, the jags under coughlin and so on.  the jets have had 5 really poor drafts in a row.  this has got to be similar to the expansion teams that pick from the dregs of the other teams when they come in.  it took time to shake out the bad players and become decent if not championship teams.

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10 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

We are a team needing a major overhaul, and you have to give these guys the time to do it.

We need a full rebuild from Herm!  We have to give Mangini more time! And weaponz for Pennington!

We need a full rebuild from Mangini!  We have to give Ryan more time! And weaponz for Sanchez!

We need a full rebuild from Ryan!  We have to give Bowles more time! And weaponz (and maybe a QB under age 50)!

We need a full rebuild from Bowles!  We have to give Gase more time! And weaponz for Darnold!

Some of us could see these Coaches were not going to bring us a title.  It didn't take multiple years for some of us.

But just like you, Woody/Chris will almost assuredly give Gase three years minimum, i.e. most of Darnold's rookie deal at this point, no matter how bad he is this year. 

Or next year.

So we'll see.  Nothing any of us can do about it either way.

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We need a full rebuild from Herm!  We have to give Mangini more time! And weaponz for Pennington!
We need a full rebuild from Mangini!  We have to give Ryan more time! And weaponz for Sanchez!
We need a full rebuild from Ryan!  We have to give Bowles more time! And weaponz (and maybe a QB under age 50)!
We need a full rebuild from Bowles!  We have to give Gase more time! And weaponz for Darnold!
Some of us could see these Coaches were not going to bring us a title.  It didn't take multiple years for some of us.
But just like you, Woody/Chris will almost assuredly give Gase three years minimum, i.e. most of Darnold's rookie deal at this point, no matter how bad he is this year. 
Or next year.
So we'll see.  Nothing any of us can do about it either way.


I think we should hire coaches to 4 game contracts. Let’s fire Gase right now, I hear Jay Gruden is available. If he doesn’t go 3-1 or better fire him. Am I doing it right Warfish? Or is 4 games too much? How about we just fire a coach as soon as they lose a game?


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23 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Gotta disagree.....IMHO Beachum, Winters, Shell have regressed.  Also if Kalil is "done" then the HC is at fault for starting him.  It's beyond me why people are going out of their way to defend Gase.   

Fair point -- Kalil didn't have a camp so I'm assuming they figured he needed time to get up to speed. One can only hope that he surprises in the weeks to come. 

RE: the others, is it a scheme difference? Beachum and Shell have been solid, but not great, in the past... but Winters has frankly always been a disappointment. 

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51 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 


I think we should hire coaches to 4 game contracts. Let’s fire Gase right now, I hear Jay Gruden is available. If he doesn’t go 3-1 or better fire him. Am I doing it right Warfish? Or is 4 games too much? How about we just fire a coach as soon as they lose a game?


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Hyperbolic straw men are hyperbolic, and made of straw. :rolleyes:

Maybe hire the right coaches in the first place?  Time doesn't fix bad coaches.  

Or do you want to argue that Mangini & Bowles were great hire choices?  At least Rex had a proper resume, and enough early success to warrant at least some more time.

But Gase? 

We'll see, and as I said above, I'm not asking to fire him today.  But I've seen nothing so far here that he has actually done in NY, or in his Head Coaching resume, to indicate he has long term success in his future.  He has faced difficult challenges, but I personally don't see him rising to them much at all so far.  So we'll see.  Gase gets 16, + almost assuredly another 32 games after that.

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4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Like those pacific island tribes that never had contact with any other human, Jets fans treat coaches and personnel men who exhibit first-world intelligence with panicked paranoiac terror. Jets fans fear winning like those tribesmen fear smallpox, and smart people threaten their primitive way of life, so naturally they try and burn those smart people alive whenever one dares to get hired by this execrable franchise. 

Like Idzik.. 😁

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Hyperbolic straw men are hyperbolic, and made of straw. :rolleyes:
Maybe hire the right coaches in the first place?  Time doesn't fix bad coaches.  
Or do you want to argue that Mangini & Bowles were great hire choices?  At least Rex had a proper resume, and enough early success to warrant at least some more time.
But Gase? 
We'll see, and as I said above, I'm not asking to fire him today.  But I've seen nothing so far here that he has actually done in NY, or in his Head Coaching resume, to indicate he has long term success in his future.  He has faced difficult challenges, but I personally don't see him rising to them much at all so far.  So we'll see.  Gase gets 16, + almost assuredly another 32 games after that.


Wait, so you’re using past HC’s as your grounds to knock my post in saying that it’s absurd to want to can a coach after 4 games, completely ignoring the mounds of reasoning as to why that’s ridiculous, call my argument a straw man argument even though you completely ignored any of the facts I laid out as to why in this situation is absurd, and then finish your statement saying you’re not saying we should fire him? So wtf are you saying Warfish, and why then if you agree with me are you trying to attack my reasoning (the reasoning you completely ignored) as straw man? What, pray tell, does the all knowing Warfish do right now with this team? Fire him, or follow into the so called straw man argument that he deserves more time?


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4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

Like those pacific island tribes that never had contact with any other human, Jets fans treat coaches and personnel men who exhibit first-world intelligence with panicked paranoiac terror. Jets fans fear winning like those tribesmen fear smallpox, and smart people threaten their primitive way of life, so naturally they try and burn those smart people alive whenever one dares to get hired by this execrable franchise. 

You feel free to let us know when that finally happens, as unfortunately not all of us even existed in the days of Weeb and it's been nearly 20 years since Tuna.

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As an independent, I’m not really feeling the anti gase militia or the gaseologists. 
 

Give me your elevator pitch 

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

Jeremy Bates who the Jets found living in a tent off the appalachian trail ran 1000000x more competent offense. 

The Bowles Jets would kick the ever-loving crap out of the Gase Jets.  It's sickening.

And for all of the past blame and current excuses, there are numerous players performing noticeably worse this year.

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Im far from anti-Gase I liked the hire of a young smart offensive minded HC problem is right now I haven't seen it. He hired JD he started Luke Falk who showed us nothing. Make a change make a move in game adjustment play calling something he did nothing. 

So I have him on watch especially with Sam Darnold returning, if no changes we have a problem. 

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Gase has to be fairly evaluated within the circumstances. He's a handful of games into his first season with a roster most of us agreed before the season had a lot of problems with injuries at important positions. Calling for him to be fired seems premature but I can't say I have loved what I have seen so far. 

I have a big concern with him which grows every game and his comments after. He seems to expect a Peyton Manning at every position who can make all the adjustments before the play. The defense dropped off after Mosley went down. His comments express a belief that the QB has to control the OL on every play. The offensive playcalling is conservative like he expects Bell to design and set up his own run play before the snap. Kalil might have been brought in to make adjustments on the OL at the line to keep the zone blocking scheme functional. If true, then Gase is doing so little to install functional schemes that he should be out. Players make adjustments on the field but should not be expected to take vanilla plays and rewrite them on the field in a way that eleven players immediately know what is going on. 

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34 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

Words.

I'm not going to take a very silly "why don't we hire them game to game, or for four games at a time" post seriously. 

Take that as you like.

Quote

What, pray tell, does the all knowing Warfish do right now with this team? 

1. I am not remotely all-knowing.  

2. Gase gets the season if I'm GM to show me something.  Chris Johnson will give him three years, minimum.  Neither of us fire him today.

3. If I were GM, I would be scouring the Practice Squads and street Free Agents for O-line players that could come in and play immediately, if possible.  Not much else to be done this late in the game.  I'd also start looking to dump any asset that was not planned to be long term here in NY for draft compensation.  

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17 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

The Bowles Jets would kick the ever-loving crap out of the Gase Jets.  It's sickening.

And for all of the past blame and current excuses, there are numerous players performing noticeably worse this year.

For sure.  I left some juice off that post though.  I should have ended with some emphasis because he ran a better offense with worse talent. 

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here is the mistake with this article...... they are thinking most fans are looking at 4 games we are not. We are looking at these 4 games Plus his 3 yrs in Miami which ended less the spectacularly the comparison to BB is a joke at best and completely wrong.

Gase started strong in Miami with a playoff appearance then 2 straight loosing season where players and fans complained about his ego play calling and game planning the same things we are complaining about here. Was fired for performance after screaming at the owner that he knew more about football  ect... not the smartest move if you want to stay employed. And no I do not believe this was some sore of genius move to get out of Miami. I think he let his ego get in the way. So far it appears he has learned nothing from that life experience. 

In his third yr  BB had the browns in the playoffs and was fired not on performance he was fired in part because the browns moved to Baltimore and Modell wanted a clean slate.  Modell set that team to fail. They were 4-4 before the announcement on November 6th 1995 after that they won 1 more game.

The just came of an 11-5 season and beat the Pats in the playoffs. Things were looking up and then the move was announced. That is the owner screwing the coach and the players to the max. Who could win in that environment ?

https://www.si.com/nfl/photos/2015/11/06/cleveland-browns-fans-react-move-baltimore#21

 

Hey I want the Jets to win but we need to see improvement, those who say the 3rd string qb is at fault well that is Gase's boy he brought him up from Miami and has said he knows the offense better then anyone. That leaves 2 options where gase still has blame one either he cant evaluate talent or  or he has not adjusted his game plan to help the player succeed. 

No one expected to win against Philly but that game plan was horrid and 14 points thru 16 quarters of football from an offensive guru....come on what is the next excuse people will come up for Gase?

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Rex didn't have a losing season his 3rd year.  He went 8-8.  Then 6-10.  Then 8-8 again.  Small detail, but when Mangini gets lumped in with Parcells for "not having a losing season in year 3" when he went 4-12 year two is kind of disingenuous. 

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How I feel whenever I see Adam Gase's face telling me that there are more injuries.  

 

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50 minutes ago, JiF said:

For sure.  I left some juice off that post though.  I should have ended with some emphasis because he ran a better offense with worse talent. 

Sad, but true.

Going beyond Bates for a moment, for all of the "third string QB" excuses, before him both Gailey and Morton did far better with a third stringer of their own by the name of Bryce Petty.  Now of course if anyone would care to argue how much better Petty is than Falk, it would probably be worthwhile to point out that Petty is currently unemployed after spending 2018 with Gase, and yet not even making the cut to be his #4 (Fales) or #5 QBs (White).

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5 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Sad, but true.

Going beyond Bates for a moment, for all of the "third string QB" excuses, before him both Gailey and Morton did far better with a third stringer of their own by the name of Bryce Petty.  Now of course if anyone would care to argue how much better Petty is than Falk, it would probably be worthwhile to point out that Petty is currently unemployed after spending 2018 with Gase, and yet not even making the cut to be his #4 (Fales) or #5 QBs (White).

Ouch  

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5 hours ago, Warfish said:

Please don't quote him.  Single best use of the ignore feature in my lifetime on Jets Forums tbqh.  

Lost with your use of the ignore feature, stop responding to my posts like a little child.  King of defeats the purpose. 

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WSo @Warfishcried to the mods because I didn't like one of his posts and how I shouldn't given he has me on ignore, and he buttfumbles a few posts today

After recruiting people to put me on ignore because it's so much better?

Hey, make up your mind child

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9 hours ago, cbudiarjo said:

multiple years? how about give him one year? some want gase fired 3 days ago.

to be fair, I wanted him fired before he was hired. We're just wasting time with him now.

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1. I am not remotely all-knowing.  

2. Gase gets the season if I'm GM to show me something.  Chris Johnson will give him three years, minimum.  Neither of us fire him today.

3. If I were GM, I would be scouring the Practice Squads and street Free Agents for O-line players that could come in and play immediately, if possible.  Not much else to be done this late in the game.  I'd also start looking to dump any asset that was not planned to be long term here in NY for draft compensation.  

 

I’m referring to my original post which outlined in detail what we’re working with right now, and why we’re in this situation. You decided to read one line, quote it, and go on how I’m somehow relating my post to past coaches and then call it a straw man argument. If you’re going to try and engage in a debate with someone have the decency to read and address all of it, not one line that perpetuates your “miserable Warfish is miserable” persona. There’s plenty of other members here that’ll engage that nonsense.

 

 

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8 hours ago, JiF said:

This isnt about wins and losses.  This team sucks and was never winning anything.  A +.500 season would be considered a huge success.  I had us in the 6-7 win range but I thought it would be a season of shootouts.  The people talking playoffs with this team were delusional and it was never about that, it was about the progression of our offense and Sam Darnold.  The hate for Gase isnt about being 0-4, it's all about hiring a failed coach with a terrible offense but called an offensive guru.  And now he's currently running the worst offensive unit I've ever seen in the history of watching Football, Qb be damned.  They cant do a single thing right.  They're inept at literally every single aspect of playing offense.  This was no different when Sam started.   2 TD's in 4 games and 1 was gift wrapped in garbage time.  That's what this is about, wins and losses be damned.  Nobody would be upset at 0-4 with a competent looking offense.  People want him fired because the offense is trash and that's supposedly his speciality despite years of incompetence. 

 

 

Thank you.... The posters who complain or state that some of us that want to can AG after 4 games call us fools or stupid (my emphasis).  they seem to be missing the salient point that he was a losing HC in Miami and the pattern of his schemes and failed coaching is repeating. 

Lets look at his resume:  I'll start by using his last 7 games (3 in Miami and they were outscored 170-74) all losses.   If I go back a couple of years its 13-19.  AG has now lost nearly 1/3 of all games he has coached.  Think about that....

Fast forward to what Bell reportedly stated, people are "confused" about their assignment and responsibilities when lining up to execute in a game.  In a game not practice a game. We are 0-4 and if those two things aren't an indictment of the schemes and coaching, then I do not know what is.

No one is discounting the fact that this team this year is snake bit with respect to suspensions  and injuries.  However, his game plan for all four  games has been conservative and frankly the same.  Think about that, the same.  From what I have seen he and his staff have not made any adjustments at half time or even during the game to mitigate game issues.  By his own admission he says that everyone on O is playing badly...  WOW!

He has been outcoached in every game.  His team has looked and seem to be unprepared each week and they have played without enthusiasm resulting is lackluster FB.  Think about this last supposition.... IF they are playing this way after PS, Camp and four games...ask yourself why?  They guys are professional FB players and want to win as mush or mores o then we do...  maybe just maybe its because - and this is speculation on my part - some players have not bought into his philosophy or  his leadership style ( if he has one) or worse, they think he is a bad FB coach.  Ask yourself why the D and ST plays their collective tails off each week but not the O.   Why are they so inept its called coaching, schemes and lack of leadership.   

Unless AG has a coaching epiphany about his schemes and changes his conservative tendencies regarding play calling... nothing will change.  And no amount of personnel changes is going to change that...remember Miami (he had his guys playing).  

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