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The Fullback in today's NFL game?


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35 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Very few teams dedicating roster spot(s) to a FB and even fewer using one consistently.  However, two of the NFL's best current teams, the Patriots and the 49ers, have the FB as a core part of their offense.

Kyle Juszczyk, the starting FB for the 49ers, just got hurt and will be out 4-6 weeks.  Prior to that he was lead blocking for the best rushing team in the NFL, unleashing Tevin Coleman, Matt Breida and Mostert for big yards.  The 49ers average an astonishing 200 yards per game rushing. Juszczyk  can also pick up blitzes pretty well.  The guy has been such a key part of the offense that the 49ers made him the highest paid FB in history....

Question - Should more teams do this?  Should the Jets consider a 21-personnel alignment and utilizing a FB?

Some of the best years in recent memory for the Jets were in the "ground and pound" days.  Similar to what Brian Schottenheimer is doing now with Seattle's rushing attack and Chris Carson.  The Jets had FB Tony Richardson back in the 2009-2011 timeframe and I'm convinced he was the secret ingredient to a great rushing attack that made Thomas Jones look like an All Pro and took major pressure off a very mediocre QB in Mark Sanchez.

Just interested in the thoughts of some of the guys who really know personnel alignments and the role of the FB in football....because that role has deteriorated recently as passing has opened up.

One of my questions would be whether the transition to a passing-heavy NFL has changed defenses to get smaller and quicker......AND whether the pendulum could swing back where a power running game could really manhandle those types of defenses?

we weny to 2 affccg with sanchez...   and t rich as the fb...  a quality lead blockeer of any type is legit

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6 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Very few teams dedicating roster spot(s) to a FB and even fewer using one consistently.  However, two of the NFL's best current teams, the Patriots and the 49ers, have the FB as a core part of their offense.

Kyle Juszczyk, the starting FB for the 49ers, just got hurt and will be out 4-6 weeks.  Prior to that he was lead blocking for the best rushing team in the NFL, unleashing Tevin Coleman, Matt Breida and Mostert for big yards.  The 49ers average an astonishing 200 yards per game rushing. Juszczyk  can also pick up blitzes pretty well.  The guy has been such a key part of the offense that the 49ers made him the highest paid FB in history....

Question - Should more teams do this?  Should the Jets consider a 21-personnel alignment and utilizing a FB?

Some of the best years in recent memory for the Jets were in the "ground and pound" days.  Similar to what Brian Schottenheimer is doing now with Seattle's rushing attack and Chris Carson.  The Jets had FB Tony Richardson back in the 2009-2011 timeframe and I'm convinced he was the secret ingredient to a great rushing attack that made Thomas Jones look like an All Pro and took major pressure off a very mediocre QB in Mark Sanchez.

Just interested in the thoughts of some of the guys who really know personnel alignments and the role of the FB in football....because that role has deteriorated recently as passing has opened up.

One of my questions would be whether the transition to a passing-heavy NFL has changed defenses to get smaller and quicker......AND whether the pendulum could swing back where a power running game could really manhandle those types of defenses?

Excellent thought provoking post!  The NFL is ever evolving and it's the innovators who lead the way and the copy cats that fall by the wayside. It's quite possible that the pendulum has swung too far and defenses have adjusted to pass heavy offenses and that old school fundamental "establish the run" football is making a comeback.  Looking forward to having an offensive line who could do either one well.

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7 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Very few teams dedicating roster spot(s) to a FB and even fewer using one consistently.  However, two of the NFL's best current teams, the Patriots and the 49ers, have the FB as a core part of their offense.

Kyle Juszczyk, the starting FB for the 49ers, just got hurt and will be out 4-6 weeks.  Prior to that he was lead blocking for the best rushing team in the NFL, unleashing Tevin Coleman, Matt Breida and Mostert for big yards.  The 49ers average an astonishing 200 yards per game rushing. Juszczyk  can also pick up blitzes pretty well.  The guy has been such a key part of the offense that the 49ers made him the highest paid FB in history....

Question - Should more teams do this?  Should the Jets consider a 21-personnel alignment and utilizing a FB?

Some of the best years in recent memory for the Jets were in the "ground and pound" days.  Similar to what Brian Schottenheimer is doing now with Seattle's rushing attack and Chris Carson.  The Jets had FB Tony Richardson back in the 2009-2011 timeframe and I'm convinced he was the secret ingredient to a great rushing attack that made Thomas Jones look like an All Pro and took major pressure off a very mediocre QB in Mark Sanchez.

Just interested in the thoughts of some of the guys who really know personnel alignments and the role of the FB in football....because that role has deteriorated recently as passing has opened up.

One of my questions would be whether the transition to a passing-heavy NFL has changed defenses to get smaller and quicker......AND whether the pendulum could swing back where a power running game could really manhandle those types of defenses?

I totally agree with this. A 2 back set would help with the run and pass game, especially with the o-line deficits the Jets have.

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3 minutes ago, Obrien2Toon said:

Zig when everyone else is zagging

all part of Belichick’s genius

Yup. As offenses spread out and go with smaller, more athletic guys on the outside defenses are adjusting with smaller more athletic guys. They aren't nearly as well suited to face the bigs as they used to be. It's also easier to find the best FB available when no one wants them. 

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The value of Juszczyk is his ability as a receiver, he has great hands, and is much more than just a lead blocker.  The role of the FB was taken over by the H-back type players, the Aaron Hernandez’s, guys who could line up in the backfield or split out.   Also, as teams started going shotgun more often it cut down on the number of plays the FB was actually on the field and Thus created a problem for justifying a roster spot on them.  Just having a guy who is a lead blocker and not a threat as a receiver would be a waste of a roster spot IMO. 

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8 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

The Jets had FB Tony Richardson back in the 2009-2011 timeframe and I'm convinced he was the secret ingredient to a great rushing attack that made Thomas Jones look like an All Pro and took major pressure off a very mediocre QB in Mark Sanchez.

Richie Anderson was also a great receiver, actually leading the team with 88 catches in Groh's one season. That's an extreme, but he was generally in the 40s with Herm, and that's a nice weapon to have. As a couple guys have mentioned, I thought Wesco, with his FB-like number 47, might see some action there - but he hasn't even been able get on the field with Herndon side-lined. It's discouraging. 

But, yeah, if I'm employing a FB, he needs to be able to rush and catch the football as well as be an extra OL on the field. No John Connors. You can take a skill position player off the field for an extra blocker in certain situations, but an every down FB needs to be able to do a lot more. And I think if you have a guy who can do that, you should incorporate him into your offense. Especially if your WR or TE group is sub-par. 

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Great thread Jetstream23!

I think it's a case of "what was old has become new again". The difference being a new era FB needs to be more than a blocker. Has to be a solid pass catcher too with the speed to be flexed outside. Call him an H-Back if you want. Richie Anderson was one of those guys.

If  defenses are gonna get smaller and faster, than having a 225lbs + hammer to take on small LBs is going to help.

Don't understand why teams are not utilizing them more

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It's  just all the rules now favor a passing O so for the few teams that are left that are run first,  you might see a FB but a lot of teams employ pulling G to do this job of hitting the LB or S in the whole. As for us, I don't  believe with Bell's running style a FB is going to help all that much. He is a patient, pick your spot type player, I don't  think he would neccesarily  follow a lead back like Thomas Jones did. 

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3 hours ago, New York Mick said:

I’ve been saying all season they need to use a FB to help pick up the passrusher and open holes for Bell. 
Harrison was used which worked and Wesco was a good blocker in college and is an eligible receiver so I figured they might give him a try. 
A FB like Tom Rathman would be perfect in today’s NFL.

I'll go back and review all your posts to confirm this. :P 

(I agree with you.)

 

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2 hours ago, BUM-KNEE said:

Gotta have a FB of some kind if you want the tough yards IMO.

Wesco could be just that, and probably why he was picked up. Let's get him more involved asap.

Not only that a fb catching passes out of the backfield gives defenses fits remember Richie Anderson got a 800 yard season for the jets back when DBs were allowed to play

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

It's  just all the rules now favor a passing O so for the few teams that are left that are run first,  you might see a FB but a lot of teams employ pulling G to do this job of hitting the LB or S in the whole. As for us, I don't  believe with Bell's running style a FB is going to help all that much. He is a patient, pick your spot type player, I don't  think he would neccesarily  follow a lead back like Thomas Jones did. 

Good point about Bell's running style, but having a FB create a hole would give Bell one more option....almost a "first read" if you will when diagnosing where he wants to go.

I also think having a FB on the field is going to force defenses to thicken up, maybe bring that Safety down into the box, etc.....and THAT will open up the passing game.  The difference between now and 2010 is we have a much better QB who would be better able to capitalize on a defense that was leaning towards a rush defense.  In "21" personnel we'd have Bell, a FB, and Herndon at TE with 2 WRs....maybe Anderson and Crowder.  Four of those guys are excellent receivers in the passing game so play action could be killer against a defense that would have to respect the rush first.

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6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Not only that a fb catching passes out of the backfield gives defenses fits remember Richie Anderson got a 800 yard season for the jets back when DBs were allowed to play

Yessir.

Miss the big lug rumbling around steamrolling guys in a cloud of dust.  The good old days of the NFL.

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4 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Good point about Bell's running style, but having a FB create a hole would give Bell one more option....almost a "first read" if you will when diagnosing where he wants to go.

I also think having a FB on the field is going to force defenses to thicken up, maybe bring that Safety down into the box, etc.....and THAT will open up the passing game.  The difference between now and 2010 is we have a much better QB who would be better able to capitalize on a defense that was leaning towards a rush defense.  In "21" personnel we'd have Bell, a FB, and Herndon at TE with 2 WRs....maybe Anderson and Crowder.  Four of those guys are excellent receivers in the passing game so play action could be killer against a defense that would have to respect the rush first.

The safeties are already crowding the LOS, there has been opportunities to throw over them but Falk has either not seen them or the line broke down in protection.  

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5 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

If only we had an offensive minded Head Coach who could call creative playcall’s using a fb

I think Gase knows his craft enough to produce results.

We just need to shore up the trenches (trench actually) and I think we can compete.

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15 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Not only that a fb catching passes out of the backfield gives defenses fits remember Richie Anderson got a 800 yard season for the jets back when DBs were allowed to play

Yep, thats what the jets need.  He could move all over.  Played 2nd TE, split wide, rb, caught a lot of balls.  

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59 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Hey man, swapping out Antonio Brown and putting a Fullback on the field was pure genius by Gruden and the Raiders. ;) 

All part of the master plan!

 

One doesn’t have anything to do with the other.  If the Raiders still had Antonio Brown , Alec Ingold(FB ) would still be out there .   The Raiders second Te ( Foster Moreau) was the player that has benefited the most from Antonio Brown being let go.   They play more two Te Formations ( Waller, and Moreau) with the Rb ,and Fb in the backfield.  The scary part for the rest of the league is Trent Brown hasn’t been fully healthy yet, and the return of Gabe Jackson.  The Raiders offense line only going to get that much stronger going forward.

 

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1 hour ago, Peteo said:

Bell currently has a 2.9 yards per carry average with a long of 13 and zero TDs.  Those are hardly great numbers.  I have to believe a FB could only help especially with the O-line the Jets have.

Bell is having a sh-t season so far because teams stack 8 in the box and run blitz us because they ALWAYS know when Gase is running the ball

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