Gregg Williams: Leo has been ‘unbelievable’

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Would be a good week for Leonard to have the game if his life then.  Jerry seems like the type to overreact to something like that.

That would be sweet, honestly. Trim some fat next week and get a pick or two

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Several contenders need DL help—particularly the Chiefs and Cowboys. The fact that both Greggggg and Gase are offering up similar accolades is proof enough that Leonard is eminently on the block.

Sounds awesome - Jets coaches talk up their players in the media and pull the wool over the eyes of the rest of the coaches and GM's in the league who don't bother to look at the film and scout the player themselves. Douglas and Gase laugh their way to the bank with the 8th round pick they fleeced from the Chiefs and celebrate with hookers and cocaine. Was it a story line in draft day?

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You simply do not pay a guy $14 mil for what Leonard is giving you, and you especially don’t get locked into a multi-year deal for a guy who’s presumably trying his hardest and still hasn’t done sh*t. Let Leonard go be someone’s swing DL for a righteous third and be done with it 

The  only way you're getting a third for him is if it's a conditional trade where he re-signs with the other team. Something like a 5th that could escalate to a third if that happens. No one is giving up a third straight up for renting Leo for the rest of the season and then having to pay him 1mil per week.

[Lupz27]

35 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

But at the end of the day, we rarely have a clue what we're talking about.

I’d say this also applies to about 90% of the people who actually do make the decisions.

[genot]

9 minutes ago, RobR said:

Still holding out hope he gets to 10 sacks this year? LOL

He had 7, his 2nd year. my theory was with QW, he would be freed up more to, thus more sacks, instead of pressures. so far, i'm wrong. I doubt he'll get to that number, hopefully QW, can stay healthy and get more comfortable with the defense, and Leo can get more attention grabbing plays.

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, RobR said:

The  only way you're getting a third for him is if it's a conditional trade where he re-signs with the other team. Something like a 5th that could escalate to a third if that happens. No one is giving up a third straight up for renting Leo for the rest of the season and then having to pay him 1mil per week.

If you’re planning on making a run and you’re thirsty for a guy who can be a plus vs the run and you’ve struggled like the Chiefs have, they’d be trading a 3 for the rights to get to the AFCCG. I think they’d make that deal, especially with Chris Jones hurt.

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Sounds cool - Jets coaches talk up their players in the media and pull the wool over the eyes of the rest of the coaches and GM's in the league who don't bother to look at the film and scout the player themselves. Douglas and Gase laugh their way to the bank with the 8th round pick they fleeced from the Chiefs and celebrate with hookers and cocaine. Was it a story line in draft day?

Teams don’t talk up players to convince other coaches—they talk up the player so those coaches can make the deal and not get murdered by their fan base. 

[Creepy Lurker]

39 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Aside from the obvious "Get your popcorn, this is going to be a great thread" remark...

This just shows how very little most fans know about football and individual players, and how actual coaches and GMs evaluate them.

It's normal that we as fans have opinions about different teams and players, and it's fun coming to a place like this to talk about them. But at the end of the day, we rarely have a clue what we're talking about.

I only disagree in respect to the fact that coaches have talked up trash players before. Clearly coaches/GMs (except Mac and Bowles), know more than fans but they talk up players just for the sake of talking them up sometimes. Look at players like Gholston  or even Lee recently. I really hope and suspect that they are talking him up to try and unload him for a draft pick. 

[Creepy Lurker]

33 minutes ago, SOJ said:

I'll see if I can find the article but I read tpday that he only gets double team 17% of the time.... 

The double team argument/excuse is a false one. It’s been overstated. He just sucks balls. 

[genot]

If Leo doesn't get traded, it's because nobody wanted him. not because the Jets wanted to keep him. Predictable responses from some posters.

[RobR]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

If you’re planning on making a run and you’re thirsty for a guy who can be a plus vs the run and you’ve struggled like the Chiefs have, they’d be trading a 3 for the rights to get to the AFCCG. I think they’d make that deal, especially with Chris Jones hurt.

I hope you're right but I just don't see it happening. The only good thing about Leo is his ability to stay healthy. Hopefully we can revisit this within the next two weeks.

[RobR]

6 minutes ago, genot said:

He had 7, his 2nd year. my theory was with QW, he would be freed up more to, thus more sacks, instead of pressures. so far, i'm wrong. I doubt he'll get to that number, hopefully QW, can stay healthy and get more comfortable with the defense, and Leo can get more attention grabbing plays.

You had a bad theory. Betting on a guy to get 10 sacks who has no get off and no passrushing moves was always going to be a losing proposition.

[genot]

Those weren't unsolicited comments from Gregg Williams. he was asked about Leo. I doubt very highly that he's even in communication with Gase, so they can pump up his trade value. reports are they don't even talk in the hallway, before or after the game.

[T0mShane]

Just now, RobR said:

I hope you're right but I just don't see it happening. The only good thing about Leo is his ability to stay healthy. Hopefully we can revisit this within the next two weeks.

A three means a lot to us because we suck. A three for a plus DT is nothing for a team like the Chiefs, who should be terrified of getting bounced from the playoffs by, like, Marlon Mack or Leonard Fournette.  

[14 in Green]

13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You simply do not pay a guy $14 mil for what Leonard is giving you, and you especially don’t get locked into a multi-year deal for a guy who’s presumably trying his hardest and still hasn’t done sh*t. Let Leonard go be someone’s swing DL for a righteous third and be done with it 

You don't have to waste your breath convincing me. I'm no expert, but I would've been happy if they got rid of him at the end of last season. I wasn't one of the people curious to see how Leo would do with a new CS.

[genot]

2 minutes ago, RobR said:

You had a bad theory. Betting on a guy to get 10 sacks who has no get off and no passrushing moves was always going to be a losing proposition.

Seasons not over.

[Creepy Lurker]

Just now, T0mShane said:

A three means a lot to us because we suck. A three for a plus DT is nothing for a team like the Chiefs, who should be terrified of getting bounced from the playoffs by, like, Marlon Mack or Leonard Fournette.  

No way he gets us a 3rd unless we can eat a lot of salary. He’s a FA next year and way too sh*tty to franchise. 4th or 5th rounder. I’ll take anything at this point. Leo is “unbelievable” alright. 

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, 14 in Green said:

You don't have to waste your breath convincing me. I'm no expert, but I would've been happy if they got rid of him at the end of last season. I wasn't one of the people curious to see how Leo would do with a new CS.

It’s like being curious to touch a hot burner on a stove. You don’t need to be curious when you know you are getting burned. We got burned by waiting to trade him but Mac could never admit defeat on his prized 1st pick. 

[slimjasi]

 

20 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Several contenders need DL help—particularly the Chiefs and Cowboys. The fact that both Greggggg and Gase are offering up similar accolades is proof enough that Leonard is eminently on the block.

Or that they are giving him 80 million dollars, lol

[RobR]

10 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

A three means a lot to us because we suck. A three for a plus DT is nothing for a team like the Chiefs, who should be terrified of getting bounced from the playoffs by, like, Marlon Mack or Leonard Fournette.  

I'm not seeing it because of his impending free agency and his ridiculous contract that pays him almost a mil a week. I can easily see some type of conditional pick if he re-signs. Not unlike the great Percy Harvin trade. Add in the fact that he's not very good and a third straight up at this time would be a fleecing by us. 

[SR24]

Yeah that Donald guy they just pay him to get sacks. Leo is here to absorb double teams cmon guys it’s all in the play style 

[dbatesman]

1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I know it sounds crazy but one possibility is that the coaches know more than people on the internet.

 

54 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Aside from the obvious "Get your popcorn, this is going to be a great thread" remark...

This just shows how very little most fans know about football and individual players, and how actual coaches and GMs evaluate them.

It's normal that we as fans have opinions about different teams and players, and it's fun coming to a place like this to talk about them. But at the end of the day, we rarely have a clue what we're talking about.

Certainly Adam Gase and Gregg Williams have never been wrong about anything before!

[Jetscode1]

I'd trade him for the sixth we gave to New England for DT.

[RobR]

7 minutes ago, genot said:

Seasons not over.

Do you want to bet another $100. We've only played four games and I'll set the line at 6.5. Just think how you can spend those 200 bucks when he hits 10.

[Bomberjet]

It may be misleading , though arguable that Leo's play on the field does not show much for making impact type of plays , and I can see the point by many that he's been a big disappointment , but I do notice myself that when he is not on the filed as was the case a few times from some minor injury , the opposing team ran rough-shod right up the middle of the line as if there were no DL on the field. Williams is still an important part of the success of the D - especially with the way the Offense has kept them on the field. 

Hopefully with Darnold back the D can do better by just resting a longer stretch.

[KRL]

Cute that they're sticking to the "company line" but Williams is
a JAG.  They're probably hoping someone will be desperate and trade
a pick for him

[RobR]

35 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Ok, I'll do that.

What you will see is a guy that is slow as sh*t off of the snap, stands straight up, hand fights the Olineman, and then gets blocked out of the play.  

[Barry McCockinner]

10 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

 

Certainly Adam Gase and Gregg Williams have never been wrong about anything before!

Did I say they were never wrong? I said one possibility is they know more than people on the internet. The coaches know exactly what is being asked of the players on every play. People watching on TV only see the end result from the TV angles shown not knowing what the players were supposed to do on the play.

I won't pretend to know what the responsibility of Leo is in the Jets defense but traditionally 3-4 DE's are eating up blocks (not rushing the passer) so their teammates are freed up. Maybe that is actually what they are asking him to do? I don't know - just a thought seeing how the coaches seem to believe he's doing what is asked.

[dbatesman]

5 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Did I say they were never wrong? I said one possibility is they know more than people on the internet. The coaches know exactly what is being asked of the players on every play. People watching on TV only see the end result from the TV angles shown not knowing what the players were supposed to do on the play.

I won't pretend to know what the responsibility of Leo is in the Jets defense but traditionally 3-4 DE's are eating up blocks (not rushing the passer) so their teammates are freed up. Maybe that is actually what they are asking him to do? I don't know - just a thought seeing how the coaches seem to believe he's doing what is asked.

The Jets have employed any number of coaches and GMs who definitely, absolutely, indisputably know less than people on the internet. Until and unless proven otherwise, appeal to authority doesn’t fly with this franchise.

[14 in Green]

29 minutes ago, RobR said:

What you will see is a guy that is slow as sh*t off of the snap, stands straight up, hand fights the Olineman, and then gets blocked out of the play.  

Sadly, I wouldn't see the things you do. You played the sport, and you played OL, you know what to look for. I didn't, and I find myself watching "the ball" most of the time. That's why I'm always peppering you with questions during games or draft discussions.

If this were a baseball thread, and we were watching or talking about a CF or any another OF, I'd know the same about his arm, his shading, and his break on the ball, etc, and judge his playing the position much easier then someone who never played it.

It's funny how we watch the sport we played differently then those we didn't. 

[Barry McCockinner]

8 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

The Jets have employed any number of coaches and GMs who definitely, absolutely, indisputably know less than people on the internet. Until and unless proven otherwise, appeal to authority doesn’t fly with this franchise.

I didn't appeal to authority. I stated facts about how the coaching staff knows what players are asked to do and fans don't. If you think that's an appeal to authority you're just plain wrong.

[JetPotato]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

Aside from the obvious "Get your popcorn, this is going to be a great thread" remark...

This just shows how very little most fans know about football and individual players, and how actual coaches and GMs evaluate them.

It's normal that we as fans have opinions about different teams and players, and it's fun coming to a place like this to talk about them. But at the end of the day, we rarely have a clue what we're talking about.

The coaches that know show much have this team at a grand total of zero wins. 

The fans are saying the Jets suck. Are they wrong?

[genot]

40 minutes ago, RobR said:

Do you want to bet another $100. We've only played four games and I'll set the line at 6.5. Just think how you can spend those 200 bucks when he hits 10.

 

[genot]

44 minutes ago, RobR said:

Do you want to bet another $100. We've only played four games and I'll set the line at 6.5. Just think how you can spend those 200 bucks when he hits 10.

I know when to cut my losses.

[dbatesman]

10 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

I didn't appeal to authority. I stated facts about how the coaching staff knows what players are asked to do and fans don't. If you think that's an appeal to authority you're just plain wrong.

oh wow