Jamal Adams Draft Position

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Ok, then there is more money to pay Jamal, no?

Again, just thinking out loud.  This team is hot garbage.  Very few talented players and to let arguably one of only real talents on the team walk (he's not getting traded) when you can easily fit him under the cap and have a ton more to spend, why wouldnt you?

I get SS is a luxury, that's not my argument.  I'm coming from more from the angle of, who else are you going to pay? And if they really do improve the talent level on D, he's no longer a luxury but a chess piece, no?    He's not going to mail it in Mo Wilk style, you in the very least know exactly what you're getting which is very good to great. 

 

 

The money we'd be spending on Jamal could easily be spent on 2 starting interior OL.  

OR, if a pass rusher/Corner/WR comes available that you DO like, you spend it there.

Basically spending on Adams takes away options to spend on premium positions.  I don't know WHO will be available in FA the next couple offseasons or how the draft plays out, but you just don't spend $14M per on Adams, who will never be more than the 4th most important player on the defense.  Build the defense around Mosley.  Spend money and heavy draft capital on offense.  

[FireTheJohnsons]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

Kind of a simplistic take. Getting lots of air time, having a large social media following and lots of jersey sales will impact perceived value most importantly in the mind of JA but also in the Johnsons and other no nothing owners. The NFL is a business.

 

Of course, and when the Johnsons get involved, we get Tim Tebow.

If we are going to put football value on social media following above football production, because the Johnsons have their hand that far up our GM's ass, we are debating a pointless topic. Thats because we will have no mechanism to ever become a good enough football team where the difference in paying Adams football value vs. business value vs. draft slot value, will ever mean anything.....

[Jetsfan80]

13 minutes ago, genot said:

Nobody knew that Brady was going to be as good as he is. That's why he was drafted where he was. Mahomes was a boom or bust prospect. Considering the QB's who would be available the following year, it would have been way too risky too draft Mahomes.

It's the job of a GM to sometimes take calculated risks.  Mike Maccagnan never did that.  He always went for the "safe" choice.  And now here we are.  

Even if you want to argue that Mahomes wasn't the pick, there's zero justification for passing on Watson too.  

[FireTheJohnsons]

1 hour ago, CTM said:

Have you ever been involved in a negotiation where you want a deal to happen but have a cap on what you are willing to pay? If so, you should understand what the person on the opposite side of the table perceives thier value to be has a huge impact on negotiations.

Actually, I am involved in those type of negotiations all the time. And what I am willing to pay, and my cap, has nothing to do with where the person came into my organization, but rather their current and future value..... 

For example, I just somewhat recently made a person who came into my company as an intern, one of the highest paid people in my company. It has nothing to do with them starting as an intern, and everything to do with how valuable they are to my business today. They evolved into that. On the counter side, I have a sales guy I heavily recruited 2 years ago, and paid a hefty premium to get him in to my company. We rolled out the red carpet, did press releases around hiring him, gave him a staff, a great office and a very large salary. He is not working out nearly as well as we hoped. He is not worthless, but he is not worth what we are paying him. I am currently working out a plan that he will have to take, or leave based on what I quantify his value to be, not the way in which he came in....

[shawn306]

50 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Mahomes plus the number 6 pick and three 2’s or Darnold and Adams?

 

I love Sam, come on man. 
 

We could have a whole offense built around Mahomes right now.

Bowles and Mac couldn't even build a defense and you want them to build an offense around Mahomes ? LOL

[genot]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's the job of a GM to sometimes take calculated risks.  Mike Maccagnan never did that.  He always went for the "safe" choice.  And now here we are.  

Even if you want to argue that Mahomes wasn't the pick, there's zero justification for passing on Watson too.  

That's a big time fart, my friend. He took a big risk drafting Hackenburg, and lost. No way he was going to do it again.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

Actually, I am involved in those type of negotiations all the time. And what I am willing to pay, and my cap, has nothing to do with where the person came into my organization, but rather their current and future value..... 

For example, I just somewhat recently made a person who came into my company as an intern, one of the highest paid people in my company. It has nothing to do with them starting as an intern, and everything to do with how valuable they are to my business today. They evolved into that. On the counter side, I have a sales guy I heavily recruited 2 years ago, and paid a hefty premium to get him in to my company. We rolled out the red carpet, did press releases around hiring him, gave him a staff, a great office and a very large salary. He is not working out nearly as well as we hoped. He is not worthless, but he is not worth what we are paying him. I am currently working out a plan that he will have to take, or leave based on what I quantify his value to be, not the way in which he came in....

 

Can you trade said employee for another one?  Because that's what I'd like the Jets to do here.  

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, genot said:

That's a big time fart, my friend. He took a big risk drafting Hackenburg, and lost. No way he was going to do it again.

lol.  So because Hackenberg was such a disaster, he wasn't going to take another QB?  Come on.  There's no comparison to be made between Hackenberg and Watson/Mahomes as prospects.  Hackenberg wasn't even draftable based on his college resume.  

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Can you trade said employee for another one?  Because that's what I'd like the Jets to do here.  

Trade Jamal for a one and get a big boy receiver receiver the draft. Cancel twitter.

[FireTheJohnsons]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Can you trade said employee for another one?  Because that's what I'd like the Jets to do here.  

You're trying way too hard to impress people on the interwebz that you don't even likely know outside of the message board..... Be true to yourself, everyone will respect you much more. Its much better to be respected, than liked. Thats free advice bud.

[Pac]

All I know is it's going to be awesome when Douglas makes Jamall Pro the highest paid S in the league.  Rightfully so.  The tears from the vocal minority will feel like a warm bath on a winter night.

[Stark]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'm happy with Sam too.  Not as happy as I'd be with Mahomes, but happy all the same.  I'll "move along" as soon as people stop getting heavily triggered whenever I have the audacity to suggest we should trade the great Jamal Adams.  

I get it. I understand your side and can see others side of it too, but man.... 

 

[genot]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.  So because Hackenberg was such a disaster, he wasn't going to take another QB?  Come on.  There's no comparison to be made between Hackenberg and Watson/Mahomes as prospects.  Hackenberg wasn't even draftable based on his college resume.  

He did take a QB. Sam Darnold. remember. To draft a QB, with as many question marks at the time, with what we had around him would have been too big a risk. We're talking the 6th pick in the draft. You want a sure thing at that slot. Your right about talent comparisons, but we're talking about a 2nd rounder vs a top 10 pick.

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

You're trying way too hard to impress people on the interwebz that you don't even likely know outside of the message board..... Be true to yourself, everyone will respect you much more. Its much better to be respected, than liked. Thats free advice bud.

Thanks for the analysis, but I was pointing out that your work-related example doesn't exactly line up with an NFL marketplace.  

[Pac]

Maccs parting gifts might have been drafting 2 hall of famers in Jamal and Darnold.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, genot said:

He did take a QB. Sam Darnold. remember. To draft a QB, with as many question marks at the time, with what we had around him would have been too big a risk. We're talking the 6th pick in the draft. You want a sure thing at that slot. Your right about talent comparisons, but we're talking about a 2nd rounder vs a top 10 pick.

Macc's plan A was Kirk Cousins.  His Plan B was whoever fell to us at 3.  That might not have been Darnold if it hadn't been for an extremely lucky set of circumstances.  There's zero chance Macc's plan was to pass on those QB's to take one the next year.  His plan was Christian Hackenberg.  

[The Crusher]

5 minutes ago, Pac said:

All I know is it's going to be awesome when Douglas makes Jamall Pro the highest paid S in the league.  Rightfully so.  The tears from the vocal minority will feel like a warm bath on a winter night.

Isn't that special?

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Pac said:

Maccs parting gifts might have been drafting 2 hall of famers in Jamal and Darnold.  

Not gonna put Quinnen in that category too?  Come on.  You've lost a step.  

[Pac]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Macc's plan A was Kirk Cousins.  His Plan B was whoever fell to us at 3.  That might not have been Darnold if it hadn't been for an extremely lucky set of circumstances.  There's zero chance Macc's plan was to pass on those QB's to take one the next year.  His plan was Christian Hackenberg.  

Absurd oversimplification.  His plan b was executed with aplomb.  The trade with the Colts was done before anyone knew what hit them knowing it was Mayfield or Darnold.  

[Pac]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Not gonna put Quinnen in that category too?  Come on.  You've lost a step.  

Early signs are promising 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Pac said:

Absurd oversimplification.  

Did he, or did he not, offer Kirk Cousins 34 million dollars a year?  That's not an oversimplification.  

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

You're trying way too hard to impress people on the interwebz that you don't even likely know outside of the message board..... Be true to yourself, everyone will respect you much more. Its much better to be respected, than liked. Thats free advice bud.

Funny you say that when you are the one that went on a lengthy post about how you handle these things all the time and the outlined your hiring and compensation decisions.

Your example to me didn't hold water because unless your guy that stated as an intern is always going to be an entry level intern but a really good one that you are going to pay it does not fit. 

Adams , a safety cannot become an olineman, a corner, a rusher, a QB.  All more valuable positions

Your intern can be super mart, work hard and become the president of the comany if he is good enough.

The way the Jets have drafted they have a lot of great top notch short order cooks but no servers, or buyers or managers.

Adams because of positional value is always going to be a short order cook and he may be the best one around but he is easily replaced.

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, Pac said:

Absurd oversimplification.  His plan b was executed with aplomb.  The trade with the Colts was done before anyone knew what hit them knowing it was Mayfield or Darnold.  

His drafting of mayfield was pure genius i tell ya!

We could have been looking at mayfield or josh  allen or even rosen for all we know if the two teams in front of us had not been stupid.

McCagnan traded up for a QB at 3.  They were stunned darnold was there for them.

[genot]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Macc's plan A was Kirk Cousins.  His Plan B was whoever fell to us at 3.  That might not have been Darnold if it hadn't been for an extremely lucky set of circumstances.  There's zero chance Macc's plan was to pass on those QB's to take one the next year.  His plan was Christian Hackenberg.  

Nah. he was talked into, foolishly into drafting that bust by the coach that was with the Jet's who was at Penn State. Big mistake. everybody knew he was a bust his 1st training camp. Remember all the quotes by coaches about his accuracy. Funny stuff,

[FireTheJohnsons]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Thanks for the analysis, but I was pointing out that your work-related example doesn't exactly line up with an NFL marketplace.  

I just answered a question my friend, did not say they correlate perfectly. That being said, the point is still 100% accurate, where a player is drafted has zero to do with their value moving forward, and any GM worth their weight in salt will offer a contract based on their current and future value, not where they were drafted. Douglas could give to sh*ts about where Adams was drafted, he didn't draft him. Just like he cut Polite before the season even started, almost unheard of for a 3rd round draft pick. You know why he did it? Because where someone was drafted doesn't matter, its your current and future value..... Your welcome, now drink some water.

[FireTheJohnsons]

7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Funny you say that when you are the one that went on a lengthy post about how you handle these things all the time and the outlined your hiring and compensation decisions.

Your example to me didn't hold water because unless your guy that stated as an intern is always going to be an entry level intern but a really good one that you are going to pay it does not fit. 

Adams , a safety cannot become an olineman, a corner, a rusher, a QB.  All more valuable positions

Your intern can be super mart, work hard and become the president of the comany if he is good enough.

The way the Jets have drafted they have a lot of great top notch short order cooks but no servers, or buyers or managers.

Adams because of positional value is always going to be a short order cook and he may be the best one around but he is easily replaced.

Again, I answered the other posters question.....

My example holds absolute perfect water, crystal clear, osmosis filtered, pure, delicious water.

Regardless of whether we are talking about business, or football, smart business, smart GM's make the best decisions based on current and future value.  if needed, I can spell out to you that the best janitor in the world, who cleans a mean bathroom, should not get the same perceived value for the company as a sales guy who moves the needle, or a great manager, or a great product guy..... A good GM, much like a good leader, understands the value he has in his employees relative to the overall good team or business. Every team or business has only so much resource to allocate. You quantify that value, and you stick to your guns. That value has absolutely nothing to do with where they were drafted, or what level they were when they came into your company, which was the original point that started all this good education. Your welcome.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, genot said:

Nah. he was talked into, foolishly into drafting that bust by the coach that was with the Jet's who was at Penn State. Big mistake. everybody knew he was a bust his 1st training camp. Remember all the quotes by coaches about his accuracy. Funny stuff,

Which is why doubling down on Hackenberg in the 2017 draft was so stupid.  Whether you admit it or not, there was zero justification for passing on Mahomes/Watson.  

[FireTheJohnsons]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Which is why doubling down on Hackenberg in the 2017 draft was so stupid.  Whether you admit it or not, there was zero justification for passing on Mahomes/Watson.  

What do we do next, do we go back to passing on Carr, Bridgewater and Garrapolo for Geno Smith? Maccagnan is thankfully gone, move on, he can't hurt you anymore moving forward. You are safe.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, FireTheJohnsons said:

What do we do next, do we go back to passing on Carr, Bridgewater and Garrapolo for Geno Smith? Maccagnan is thankfully gone, move on, he can't hurt you anymore moving forward. You are safe.

Well we weren't allowed to complain about it at the time, and now we're not allowed to complain about it in hindsight.  So.....

[genot]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Which is why doubling down on Hackenberg in the 2017 draft was so stupid.  Whether you admit it or not, there was zero justification for passing on Mahomes/Watson.  

All of the scouting reports were basically the same. You can't in hindsight bitch about not drafting him with the 6th pick. there we're a bunch of reasons why he wasn't. http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/patrick-mahomes?id=2558125

[#27TheDominator]

Another factor in his draft position is the 5th year option.  You get a 5th year option with 1st round picks.  Maye will have to be dealt with a year before Adams.  OTOH, since he was top 10, Adams option price is the transition tag (average of #1-#10 at his position).  Players drafted 11-32 get the average of #3-#25 at their position.  

[T0mShane]

30 minutes ago, Pac said:

warm bath on a winter night.

cc: @joewilly12

[BigRy56]

Not at all - especially when we drafted Sam the year after...

If we were drafting all over again without the knowledge that we were gonna draft Sam? Of course we'd take Mahomes or Watson over him... but now that everything is playing out, we drafted the two cornerstones of the team in back-to-back drafts. You can't argue with that.

[FireTheJohnsons]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well we weren't allowed to complain about it at the time, and now we're not allowed to complain about it in hindsight.  So.....

You weren't allowed to complain about it where, and according to who?? You are a confusing guy to follow bud.

[genot]

4 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

Not at all - especially when we drafted Sam the year after...

If we were drafting all over again without the knowledge that we were gonna draft Sam? Of course we'd take Mahomes or Watson over him... but now that everything is playing out, we drafted the two cornerstones of the team in back-to-back drafts. You can't argue with that.

Some people can. And will. Ad nauseam