Jamal Adams Draft Position

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, CTM said:

Why do some of you have this compulsion to distill a nuanced multivariate situation down to a binary.

Obviously if he was a bad player he wouldnt get a big contract based on draft position. I never suggested such a thing

What I did suggest is that hes a good to very good player who is going to want to get paid more than his on the field production is worth due to his burgeoning sports celebrity and existing 22M deal. Both of which were propelled by his draft position.

If Marcus Maye and Jamal Adam's grade out exactly the same over the next 26 games Adam's will expect and receive a much larger contract than Maye who is on a 4M deal. That is the point

Agree with first paragraph, everything is binary—that’s the lowest common denominator in everyday life.

However it also itches my goat when people start stressing that a Jets player is too good and we may have to pay him a lot. We have been so devoid of talent just enjoy it man. 

[DRJETS]

This is insane not another JA thread.  Why are so many posters beating themselves over and over is beyond me.  JA have nothing to do with the ineptitude dumb move by Macc wasting a top pick by drafting a box safety over Mahomes and Watson that alone will be enough to keep him away from getting another GM in the NFL.  That should be it.   This have been debated forever here and there have to be about 1000 threads.  If the moderators are kind enough to put all the threads into one so that poster will be less incentivize to open new one. 

[Skeet Ulrich]

19 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Then we would have never landed Darnold! Who is better than Watson. Jets fans are an embarrassment 

By what exact metric do you gauge that?

[UntouchableCrew]

Random note -- for those who are upset we took a safety at 6 and passed on Mahomes and Watson...

Imagine if you're a Bears fan. You have the third overall pick in that draft. You TRADE UP one spot to make sure you get your guy... And it's Mitch Trubisky!!!!!

At least Adams is a stud and we have Darnold now. The Bears have a loaded Super Bowl caliber team and are wasting it the way we wasted ours with Sanchez.

[JoJoTownsell1]

15 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Devin Smith is a draft mistake, so is hackenberg, or gholston, or coples, or dee Milner, or darron lee, or Dwayne Robertson.

drafting the best safety in football is not a “draft mistake”

Exactly. 

If you look through the history of top 10 picks you will find plenty of absolute busts or just not very good players including Trubisky, Solomon Thomas, Corey Davis, John Ross, Mike Williams. Jets fans should be happy that we didn't make those mistakes. 

[Jet Nut]

17 minutes ago, DRJETS said:

This is insane not another JA thread.  Why are so many posters beating themselves over and over is beyond me.  JA have nothing to do with the ineptitude dumb move by Macc wasting a top pick by drafting a box safety over Mahomes and Watson that alone will be enough to keep him away from getting another GM in the NFL.  That should be it.   This have been debated forever here and there have to be about 1000 threads.  If the moderators are kind enough to put all the threads into one so that poster will be less incentivize to open new one. 

Its not so many.

Its the same handful of fans of Mahomes or whoever and get over the fact we didnt take their guy.  Makes no difference that we got a really good, pro bowl player.  Not their guy.  So trash Adams

You know the give away is the ridiculous idea that we could just replace him with a scrub, Rontez Miles and it wouldnt make a difference.  

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Random note -- for those who are upset we took a safety at 6 and passed on Mahomes and Watson...

Imagine if you're a Bears fan. You have the third overall pick in that draft. You TRADE UP one spot to make sure you get your guy... And it's Mitch Trubisky!!!!!

At least Adams is a stud and we have Darnold now. The Bears have a loaded Super Bowl caliber team and are wasting it the way we wasted ours with Sanchez.

 

The Bears' failings do not make us look any smarter by comparison.  

The Bears also have Khalil Mack.  We had every opportunity to get him and didn't.  Darnold on one side + Mack on the other = Super Bowl contender in 2020.  

[prime21]

30 minutes ago, CTM said:

Why do some of you have this compulsion to distill a nuanced multivariate situation down to a binary.

 

[CTM]

30 minutes ago, jgb said:

Agree with first paragraph, everything is binary—that’s the lowest common denominator in everyday life.

However it also itches my goat when people start stressing that a Jets player is too good and we may have to pay him a lot. We have been so devoid of talent just enjoy it man. 

That's fine. Watching my team dump premium resources like high draft picks and big dollars into non premium positions itches my goat. My guess is that JA will get a 25% premium or more 

 

[Jetsfan80]

40 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

Devin Smith is a draft mistake, so is hackenberg, or gholston, or coples, or dee Milner, or darron lee, or Dwayne Robertson.

drafting the best safety in football is not a “draft mistake”

They're all mistakes, and Jamal Adams is not the best Safety in football.  Kevin Byard stakes a claim to that.  He has 3 INT this season and 15 INT over his 3+ year career.  Eddie Jackson has 0 INT this year but has 8 career INT as well as 5 FR's, 3 FF's and 2 TD's.  

And yeah, I know you're going to respond with "There's more to playing Safety than INT's!  We use Adams differently!"  Enough with that.  We're in 2019.  Defensive football is all about getting to the QB and/or causing turnovers.  If you aren't doing one of those 2 things with some consistency you're just not that important and/or just not that good.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, CTM said:

That's fine. Watching my team dump premium resources like high draft picks and big dollars into non premium positions itches my goat. My guess is that JA will get a 25% premium or more 

 

I get it but the past is gone. At least he’s playing well unlike Williams.

[Jetsfan80]

25 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Exactly. 

If you look through the history of top 10 picks you will find plenty of absolute busts or just not very good players including Trubisky, Solomon Thomas, Corey Davis, John Ross, Mike Williams. Jets fans should be happy that we didn't make those mistakes. 

At least those GM's had balls and tried to bring in players at premium positions.  Macc was an absolute pu$$y.  And where did all those "safe" picks get us?  The 2nd worst record in football during his tenure (behind the Browns).  

I'm not saying you always take risks in the 1st round.  But at the same time, safe picks don't move the needle for a franchise.  They just kick the can down the road at positions that actually matter.  

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

They're all mistakes, and Jamal Adams is not the best Safety in football.  Kevin Byard stakes a claim to that.  He has 3 INT this season and 15 INT over his 3+ year career.  Eddie Jackson has 0 INT this year but has 8 career INT as well as 5 FR's, 3 FF's and 2 TD's.  

And yeah, I know you're going to respond with "There's more to playing Safety than INT's!  We use Adams differently!"  Enough with that.  We're in 2019.  Defensive football is all about getting to the QB and/or causing turnovers.  If you aren't doing one of those 2 things with some consistency you're just not that important and/or just not that good.

They are all BUSTS. Jamal was a mistake. There is a difference but some prefer to conflate the two. 

[CTM]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

I get it but the past is gone. At least he’s playing well unlike Williams.

This will be a big topic of conversation next year when hes going for a new deal 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

They are all BUSTS. Jamal was a mistake. There is a difference but some prefer to conflate the two. 

You just summed up the argument in 2 sentences.  /EndThread

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

At least those GM's had balls and tried to bring in players at premium positions.  Macc was an absolute pu$$y.  And where did all those "safe" picks get us?  The 2nd worst record in football during his tenure (behind the Browns).  

I'm not saying you always take risks in the 1st round.  But at the same time, safe picks don't move the needle for a franchise.  They just kick the can down the road at positions that actually matter.  

Yeah, I am sure you would have cut Macc slack if he drafted a bust at 6. 

I mean  you guys cut him a ton of slack when he took a QB early in the 2nd. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Yeah, I am sure you would have cut Macc slack if he drafted a bust at 6. 

If it was an attempt to bring in a player at a position that matters, hell yeah I would have cut him some slack.  You have to take educated risks in this league if you want to build a perennial contender.  

It's why I give Tannenbaum and Mangini slack for the Gholston pick.  That was not nearly as awful/dumb a selection as history suggests it was.  Busts are never a "good thing" but we know they happen.  The "safe bets" at non-premium positions are what they are; OK picks that will never move the needle. 

I'd rather my GM take some big swings from time to time than constantly take guys who you know from the start won't move the needle.  

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Yeah, I am sure you would have cut Macc slack if he drafted a bust at 6. 

I mean  you guys cut him a ton of slack when he took a QB early in the 2nd. 

So you’re saying Macc is a victim of unreasonable expectations? 

[Jet Nut]

42 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'd rather my GM take some big swings from time to time than constantly take guys who you know from the start won't move the needle.  

Yeah as long as it works after the fact, right?

Macc takes a big swing with Hack, was hoping he would find what he had as the top recruit out of HS and Asmara a freshman at PSU.

Didnt work out in any way shape and form but we're  still killing him years later.  

Jump ahead and we're complaining he didn't take an even bigger risky swing with the 6th spot in the draft to take a QB that most had as a day two pick.  With a team that's had to get a return at 6.  

After seeing Mahomes has become thats all changed but it is funny these swings are acceptable when we know the outcome.  And when our asses aren't on the line.

Doesnt change the fact that we got a really good player and the complaints about Jamal are really pretty dumb

[UntouchableCrew]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

The Bears' failings do not make us look any smarter by comparison.  

 The Bears also have Khalil Mack.  We had every opportunity to get him and didn't.  Darnold on one side + Mack on the other = Super Bowl contender in 2020.  

It was just a joke. It could be way, way worse.

[BornJetsFan1983]

i dont know who said it on jetnation but I read someone else's comment and it basically was like Sam darnold just changed he whole damn team. 1 player. That is why you take QB in the 1st round and not a safety. 

How the hell do you argue that? Adams is great, i like him on the team but he sure as hell didn't win us any games. we miss on 1st rounders sure, but we need to be taking 1st rounders that either are QB - hit the qb or protect the qb. I m also ok whit RB - look as barkley. Anyway for what its it worth. I am completely changed on this position. I was all about Take Adams cause he was the best, but ultimately that is losing proposition. How our front office didn't know this is ridiculous. 

SO yeah adams glad you are here but lets now play. It was horrible pick. See 2019 NY Jets season games 2 - 4

[BornJetsFan1983]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah as long as it works after the fact, right?

Macc takes a big swing with Hack, was hoping he would find what he had as the top recruit out of HS and Asmara a freshman at PSU.

Didnt work out in any way shape and form but we're  still killing him years later.  

Jump ahead and we're complaining he didn't take an even bigger risky swing with the 6th spot in the draft to take a QB that most had as a day two pick.  With a team that's had to get a return at 6.  

After seeing Mahomes has become thats all changed but it is funny these swings are acceptable when we know the outcome.  And when our asses aren't on the line.

Doesnt change the fact that we got a really good player and the complaints about Jamal are really pretty dumb

what? how is it dumb. Adams cant win games by himself, cant lift the whole team. QB can. Citing hack? seriously? it was a second rounder right? but really he was really supposed to be a UDFA...anyway idk about your argument here. You can tell me Adams was a good pick when we just saw Darnold change the whole damn team. 

That is my criteria QB or someone how hits or protects them in the 1st round. Maybe a RB. That is it. Hell a WR ok Ill take that too. If we have all the other ones filled in..and even then I rather have depth..

[Barry McCockinner]

7 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

what? how is it dumb. Adams cant win games by himself, cant lift the whole team. QB can.

No QB has ever won a game by themselves. They need the center to snap them the ball, the o-line to block, the WR to get open & catch the ball, the defense to stop the other team from scoring, the special teams to kick points, punt, cover kicks, etc.

The idea that a QB wins a game by himself is just plain stupid.

[#27TheDominator]

4 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah as long as it works after the fact, right?

Macc takes a big swing with Hack, was hoping he would find what he had as the top recruit out of HS and Asmara a freshman at PSU.

Didnt work out in any way shape and form but we're  still killing him years later.  

Jump ahead and we're complaining he didn't take an even bigger risky swing with the 6th spot in the draft to take a QB that most had as a day two pick.  With a team that's had to get a return at 6.  

After seeing Mahomes has become thats all changed but it is funny these swings are acceptable when we know the outcome.  And when our asses aren't on the line.

Doesnt change the fact that we got a really good player and the complaints about Jamal are really pretty dumb

That's not particularly fair.  I haven't killed Maccagnan for his two horrific picks precisely for that reason.  I think he was very careful at the top of the draft, taking high floor players.  Any idiot could see that Williams, Adams and Williams would be solid NFL players. 

He swung wildly later on, taking a ton of smaller school guys (Cannon, Simon), older rookies (Shepherd and Donahue fit both) and guys with injury histories (Herndon, Clark, Cashman, Austin). Converted WR to play CB (Jones).  His two biggest risks were the worst combine in history in the 3rd and an undraftable QB with horrific accuracy in the 2nd. 

I don't kill him for those picks because I expect him to take some chances.  The problem is that he let Hackenberg being here influence his draft in 2017.  Mahomes was sort of a late riser, but Watson would not have been any kind of a reach.  I like Darnold, but the idea that waiting for 2018 was a stroke of genius is ridiculous.  If they were tanking and putting all their eggs in the 2018 basket, then how the **** did they end up picking 6th?  What the ****?  They are very lucky that the Colts made that trade or we'd be looking at choosing between Rosen and Allen.  As it was, we had every opportunity to miss out on the first two.  Then we'd be looking at Barkley, Allen or Rosen.

Adams is a nice player.  I'm still probably not going to want to pay him in 2021.  Hell, I probably won't want to pay him what he'll get in 2020.  It doesn't mean I don't like the player, but like Landon Collins, that is a ton of money.  Adams has been flying around this season and he has more range than Collins, but it's going to probably be up over $12M which is a ton for a safety.  

[CTM]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If it was an attempt to bring in a player at a position that matters, hell yeah I would have cut him some slack.

Yes but that's only 1/2 the picture, if he took a DE with low athleticism or a QB with poor accuracy I would not. Premiere position + solid #'s

[greenwichjetfan]

6 hours ago, CTM said:

My guess is that JA will get a 25% premium or more 

 

How significant is that though when the cap is going up annually? I don’t have the numbers, but I’d be interested to see what the top S are getting relative to the cap, and how much of a premium would be considered too much.

[jetgreen13]

20 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

WTF is the pro paying Adams argument?

How many different ways can some bitch about Adams?  Its Fing amazing to read.

that's easy, you don't pay box safeties super star money in a hard cap league.. 

unless he's going to somehow develop into a player maker in space in his rookie contract.. because at least that point you would be talking about holding onto a special ball player.. he's not that guy & he's already playing a non premium position.. who the hell builds a defense around a box safety?? 

 

 

[genot]

6 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

that's easy, you don't pay box safeties super star money in a hard cap league.. 

unless he's going to somehow develop into a player maker in space in his rookie contract.. because at least that point you would be talking about holding onto a special ball player.. he's not that guy & he's already playing a non premium position.. who the hell builds a defense around a box safety?? 

 

 

Get a clue dude. This mind you, is without a good pass rush.

 

[jetgreen13]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Get a clue dude. This mind you, is without a good pass rush.

 

well PFF says so, you got me..

[genot]

Just now, jetgreen13 said:

well PFF says so, you got me..

Everybody says so. National media. Analysts who actually played, and starred in the NFL, and all the players at last years pro bowl who watched Adams at LSU, and with the Jet's. You and other's are living in fantasy land.

[jetgreen13]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Everybody says so. National media. Analysts who actually played, and starred in the NFL, and all the players at last years pro bowl who watched Adams at LSU, and with the Jet's. You and other's are living in fantasy land.

any many of those same people had mayfield being by far the best QB in last year's daft.. 

[genot]

1 minute ago, jetgreen13 said:

any many of those same people had mayfield being by far the best QB in last year's daft.. 

Do you still believe the earth's flat???

[jetgreen13]

13 minutes ago, genot said:

Do you still believe the earth's flat???

that's great great man.. we'll see what douglas & gase believe when it comes time to pay the guy..

 

[Jet Nut]

45 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

that's easy, you don't pay box safeties super star money in a hard cap league.. 

unless he's going to somehow develop into a player maker in space in his rookie contract.. because at least that point you would be talking about holding onto a special ball player.. he's not that guy & he's already playing a non premium position.. who the hell builds a defense around a box safety?? 

 

 

It can't be that easy since only here is he a box safety.  

Just as only here is S a non premium position that shouldn't be paid the league minimum. 

Sorry, don't agree. 

[Jet Nut]

19 minutes ago, jetgreen13 said:

any many of those same people had mayfield being by far the best QB in last year's daft.. 

Actually that's not true.  

Explains why most were shocked that the Browns took him first over Darnold.  

Of course some isn't all and all think Adams is a star defensive player.  About 8 here will argue he's not in any thread Adams or a player who's name includes an A & D is in.