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2 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

He was murdered.  And nobody gave a sh*t because of where he was mentally at the time.  The guitar player Roy Buchan was probably murdered too under similar circumstances.  Great music, terrible tragedies.

Don't know where had a mental issue other than he was a drunk wandering around SFlo begging for free drinks or more often than not initiating fights.  He was beaten to a pulp  by a bar owner after starting trouble in the and had head trauma that led to a coma and then to his death.  

Shame, so young and so talented.  There's a great movie, caught it on Netflix don't know if it's still available called Jaco.  Produced by Metallicas Robert Trujillo.  

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17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Don't know where had a mental issue other than he was a drunk wandering around SFlo begging for free drinks or more often than not initiating fights.  He was beaten to a pulp  by a bar owner after starting trouble in the and had head trauma that led to a coma and then to his death.  

Shame, so young and so talented.  There's a great movie, caught it on Netflix don't know if it's still available called Jaco.  Produced by Metallicas Robert Trujillo.  

Pastorius was an undiagnosed schizophrenic.  It was pretty well known in the music community for years.  But Jaco's problems were only remembered  by harcore music fans or industry types before the documentary.  The music scene around that time was a bunch of ex-hippies and free drugs and little profession accountability. It was just a very different time.

Roy Buchanan was a similar artist who was most likely bipolar and self medicated with alcohol.  And then one day he disappeared into the night with his truck after a domestic dispute.  In the richest county in the country (Faurfax, Virginia) with a notorious redneck police department, so he predicatbly ended up dead.

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25 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Pastorius was an undiagnosed schizophrenic.  It was pretty well known in the music community for years.  But Jaco's problems were only remembered  by harcore music fans or industry types before the documentary.  The music scene around that time was a bunch of ex-hippies and free drugs and little profession accountability. It was just a very different time.

Roy Buchanan was a similar artist who was most likely bipolar and self medicated with alcohol.  And then one day he disappeared into the night with his truck after a domestic dispute.  In the richest county in the country (Faurfax, Virginia) with a notorious redneck police department, so he predicatbly ended up dead.

Two different generations.  Not all of us where unaware of Pastorius and his issues.  I met him a number of times.  I've heard more than a few stories from John McGlaughlin.  People knew about Jaco, it's why such a talent player was walking around Miami with album covers to prove he was "famous" so he could score free drinks and couldn't find a job playing over far less talented bassists.  

As I said, it was a shame.  He needed help on whatever level.

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7 hours ago, SAR I said:

Which one?  We're hosting 3 in a row from 2021-2023.

SAR I

Proud Of You Yes GIF

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17 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

So whats the weather going to be like tomorrow night at MetLife. 

rh.jpg

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54 degrees and dry.

Perfect hoodie weather.  This is my Jets hoodie collection.  Which way should I go?

SAR I

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27 minutes ago, SAR I said:

54 degrees and dry.

Perfect hoodie weather.  This is my Jets hoodie collection.  Which way should I go?

SAR I

Top right I would definitely wear something heavy underneath like a Nike therma-fit or something like the Heat-x base layer and pack a poncho. 

You know the Meadowlands always windy always colder than it really is. 

Enjoy. 

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20 minutes ago, SAR I said:

rh.jpg

rs.jpg

rx.jpg

54 degrees and dry.

Perfect hoodie weather.  This is my Jets hoodie collection.  Which way should I go?

SAR I

Gimme!  Damn.  I got to stop buying the DHgate stuff.  Bought a decent Wilkerson jersey a few years ago.  But they've ****ed everything up since then. 

See.  Now you guys know her cheap I am.  Gunna turn on me faster than Lebron!

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46 minutes ago, SAR I said:

rh.jpg

rs.jpg

rx.jpg

54 degrees and dry.

Perfect hoodie weather.  This is my Jets hoodie collection.  Which way should I go?

SAR I

A new one with the current logo. :) 

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42 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Top right I would definitely wear something heavy underneath like a Nike therma-fit or something like the Heat-x base layer and pack a poncho. 

You know the Meadowlands always windy always colder than it really is. 

Enjoy. 

Don't find Met Life to be windy or colder than it really is.  The old stadium, yes, Met Life?  No

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3 hours ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

I think everyone should just go shirtless for the game

@joewilly12 is that you?

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

rh.jpg

rs.jpg

rx.jpg

54 degrees and dry.

Perfect hoodie weather.  This is my Jets hoodie collection.  Which way should I go?

SAR I

You can tell he's 3 series rich bc he can get ladies' mediums customized to say xxl.

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6 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

I agree @SAR I nothing like sitting outdoors at a NY Jets game when its 20 degrees. but the down pouring rain like the NY Giants fans sat out in today you can keep it. 

Looked like most of them had left 

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On 10/19/2019 at 8:34 PM, SAR I said:

0476461-B-B003-4-E13-AE36-C7062-E905-D9-

Someone tell the OP that the game is Monday night, not Sunday. 

SAR I

What does "OP" stand for.   Im bad with acronyms

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1 hour ago, Jet hustle said:

What does "OP" stand for.   Im bad with acronyms

"Original Poster" aka the person who started the thread.

SAR I

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11 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

The most unebelieable bass player I've ever seen.  Jaco was amazing, fit in perfect with Joe Zawinal, Wayane Shorter and the rest 

What he did on the bass was legendary in it's time.  If you get a chance listen to his harmonics work on "Portrait of Tracy"  or his incredible rendition of Donna Lee. BOTH are now badges of honor and can be played by many young bassists BUT he was doing stuff on the bass that was simply first.

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9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Don't find Met Life to be windy or colder than it really is.  The old stadium, yes, Met Life?  No

Same location same results same crazy weather its always colder and windier at MetLife/Meadowlands in my OPINION. 

Do you tailgate or spend anytime in the parking lot. 

 

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11 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Same location same results same crazy weather its always colder and windier at MetLife/Meadowlands in my OPINION. 

Do you tailgate or spend anytime in the parking lot. 

 

What are you writing a book? 

@Maxman lol

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1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

What are you writing a book? 

@Maxman lol

No just discussing the weather at MetLife/Meadowlands.

@Max man ??????????????????

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37 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Same location same results same crazy weather its always colder and windier at MetLife/Meadowlands in my OPINION. 

Do you tailgate or spend anytime in the parking lot. 

 

Yes, for years.  But I thought we were talking inside the stadium.  Its definately less windy and in turn not as cold as it was in the older stadium IMO. 

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2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

What he did on the bass was legendary in it's time.  If you get a chance listen to his harmonics work on "Portrait of Tracy"  or his incredible rendition of Donna Lee. BOTH are now badges of honor and can be played by many young bassists BUT he was doing stuff on the bass that was simply first.

I have, he's an amazing player even by today's standards, way ahead of his time, made the bass a lead instrument.  

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10 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

You can tell he's 3 series rich bc he can get ladies' mediums customized to say xxl.

Because of the wealth I can get ladies to agree to anything.  PM me.

SAR I

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4 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Because of the wealth I can get ladies to agree to anything.  PM me.

SAR I

I don't know but I been told 2 dollars to a Turnpike Hooker is just like Gold.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Yes, for years.  But I thought we were talking inside the stadium.  Its definately less windy and in turn not as cold as it was in the older stadium IMO. 

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Agreed.  Something about the construction of the stadium-  probably the endzone openings between levels-  allows it to be far less windy.  In fact, I can't recall a game in MetLife where I was uncomfortable because of the winds and that happened often in Giants Stadium.

SAR I

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41 minutes ago, SAR I said:

4200b71fa258432cb0feb43fce19f0e5.jpg?wid

Agreed.  Something about the construction of the stadium-  probably the endzone openings between levels-  allows it to be far less windy.  In fact, I can't recall a game in MetLife where I was uncomfortable because of the winds and that happened often in Giants Stadium.

SAR I

Totally agree.  Doesn’t seem to get as bad as it used to get, don’t remember wind blowing like before. 

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44 minutes ago, SAR I said:

4200b71fa258432cb0feb43fce19f0e5.jpg?wid

Agreed.  Something about the construction of the stadium-  probably the endzone openings between levels-  allows it to be far less windy.  In fact, I can't recall a game in MetLife where I was uncomfortable because of the winds and that happened often in Giants Stadium.

SAR I

 

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Totally agree.  Doesn’t seem to get as bad as it used to get, don’t remember wind blowing like before. 

Minnesota Vikings game last year was brutal the wind never stopped and it was cold as hell. Sat LL EZ. 

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7 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

 

Minnesota Vikings game last year was brutal the wind never stopped and it was cold as hell. Sat LL EZ. 

Jeez, one game ?   I can remember games a lot colder and windier.  This stadium isn’t as windy as the old place.  

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Jeez, one game ?  This stadium isn’t as windy as the old place.  

So if it's not as windy how did it happen that  1 time?  Fluke?  No matter the stadium the wind blows ever go over to the horse track? Same winds blow. 

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Riddle of the Wind at New Meadowlands Stadium

By JOHN BRANCHNOV. 24, 2010

 
Photo
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Kyle Calhoon, the head groundskeeper at the New Meadowlands Stadium, tests winds on the field twice a day. CreditRichard Perry/The New York Times 

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. — A familiar wind blew across the Meadowlands from the north at about 25 miles an hour on a recent weekday afternoon. It kept flags snapped at full attention and knocked over metal barriers in the parking lot. It was the type of wind known to blow fiercely around the old football stadium and swirl unpredictably inside it, making the former home of the Giants and the Jets a notoriously difficult place to punt, pass and kick. At times, it was like playing inside a vacuum canister.

That stadium is gone. The wind is not. And now the teams are trying to decipher, through science and speculation, what kind of game-altering currents to expect in a different structure.

Inside New Meadowlands Stadium, the groundskeeper Kyle Calhoon held a pocket-size anemometer. As he does every afternoon at 1 and 4, the usual starting times for Sunday home games, Calhoon measured the wind at each corner of the field and at the 50-yard line. He logged the speed and direction. The data is shared with the Giants and the Jets, who try to make sense of it.

Good luck. On the field this day, the breeze was noticeable but not forceful. In the south end zone, it came from the south — opposite of what it was doing in the parking lot. In the north end zone, it came from the north. And in the middle of the field, pockets of stillness were interrupted by sideways gusts. If there was a pattern, it was a figure eight.

Jets punter Steve Weatherford and Giants punter Matt Dodge said that, so far, it felt as if the wind was at their back at both ends of the field. That is good for punters, bad for field-goal kickers.

 
 
Calhoon looked at his statistics.

“That would make sense,” he said.

The Giants (6-4) and the Jets (8-2) are desperate to spin something as capricious as wind into a home-field advantage with the cold, shifting winds of winter blowing in, and the possibility of home playoff games ahead.

“The next two months is when it really starts to show itself,” said Tom Quinn, special-teams coach for the Giants. They play the Jacksonville Jaguars at the new stadium on Sunday afternoon. The Jets play the Cincinnati Bengals there on Thursday night. It will probably be windy.

A Site Made for Wind

On a Tuesday afternoon, Dave Robinson stood in the near-empty parking lot, about where one end zone of the former stadium stood until a few months ago. As New Jersey’s state climatologist for the past 19 years and a Rutgers professor, Robinson knows weather.

“There is nothing more variable than the wind,” he said. It blew his hair in several directions.

The Meadowlands, a vast area of wetlands west of Manhattan, is not the windiest spot in the state. That honor is usually shared by ridgetops in the Poconos to the northwest and along the ocean shore to the southeast. But the air is rarely still.

“Look out that way,” Robinson said, facing the wind. “It’s flat. There are not a lot of tall structures. There are not a lot of trees. That’s the classic condition for wind.”

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Winds at the New Meadowlands Stadium are a bit different than the air currents at the old Giants Stadium, which made it such a confounding place to play.CreditRichard Perry/The New York Times 

He provided records showing that it picks up in consistency and intensity late in the year, particularly from the northwest.

“In the winter there are a lot larger thermal differences, a lot larger pressure differences,” Robinson said. “And that really gets the wind moving.”

Yet wind was an afterthought in the design of New Meadowlands Stadium. It might be what the players, coaches and fans worried about, but not the architects. No one asked Giants quarterback Eli Manning what he thought.

“We had a lot of other things that we were concerned about in building the building that took precedence over the wind — or something as variable as the wind,” said Bob Jordan, the stadium’s vice president for design and construction.

Wind’s effect on structural integrity, however, is always a concern for a large building. About the time construction began in 2007, a wind assessment study was conducted by RWDI, a Canadian engineering firm.

“Any time you have an obstacle that intercepts a wind flow, you create these kind of swirling events, where the wind becomes turbulent,” said Michael Soligo, RWDI’s chief executive. “They will create changes in pressure, they will create changes in velocity and changes of wind-flow direction.”

RWDI attached sensors to a scale model of the stadium and placed it in a wind tunnel. Of primary interest were tests from the Meadowlands’ three predominant wind directions — north, northwest and southwest.

(The stadium — and its field inside — is oriented 4 degrees from north, tilted slightly west. The old stadium was turned farther counterclockwise, pointing to about 10 o’clock. The change had nothing to do with wind, but with wedging the new stadium between the old one, the nearby racetrack and new rail lines.)

Air movement inside the stadium’s bowl was evaluated at three heights above the field: 4 feet, 12 feet and 38 feet — the height of the first concourse and a couple of feet below the top of the goalposts.

At the first concourse, behind the end zones between the large video boards, the stadium is open to the outside for about 50 vertical feet. A direct flow into the bowl is obstructed only by a few ramps and concessions stands, and by the tilted louvers that ring the stadium as a decorative flourish. (The slats, which look like gray window blinds, are stationary. The building cannot be shuttered in a storm.)

Those ventlike openings concern the Giants and the Jets. Does the wind howl through and exit on the other end? (Yes.) Does it dip and swirl? (Yes.) Does it depend on wind direction and temperature? (Yes.) Is it worth trying to keep balls below 38 feet? (Probably not.)

Photo
WIND-jumbo.jpg
 
Flags at the Meadowlands racetrack illustrate variable wind patterns at the site and how wind flow can be affected by structures. CreditRichard Perry/The New York Times 

“I look at those openings and I think the worst,” said Giants kicker Lawrence Tynes, who made 14 of 15 field goals last season at the old stadium but is 5 of 8 at the new one. “I can’t imagine it’s going to help.”

The tests did not prompt a single design change, Jordan said.

“The study said the wind is going to move through, that there are going to be some circular patterns on the field, but it was nothing that you would not expect,” he said.

Lore of the Open Doors

The old stadium was a concrete bowl of unexpected circular patterns. Wind screamed across the top and dropped inside. Streamers on the goalposts often pointed the opposite direction as flags atop the grandstands.

Home-team kickers knew that the west end, where the breeze usually moved left or right, was more predictable than the whirling chaos of the east end. They learned the clues and protected their secrets.

It was a mind game. Some opponents over the years believed that the Giants and Jets would open the stadium’s outer doors to create a sudden and strategic burst of wind through the tunnels leading to the field. (Wind and fluids, generally incompressible, squeeze through tighter channels at higher velocity, something called the Venturi effect, which is why wind whips between buildings in places like Manhattan.)

The home teams routinely denied such gamesmanship, but did not mind the speculation. Now the lore is buried in the parking lot, perhaps alongside Jimmy Hoffa.

Such purposefully timed gusts are not possible at the new stadium, Jordan said. The four roll-up doors leading to the field are closed during games, and doors to the outside of the entire stadium are not aligned the same way to create a wind-tunnel effect through the mazelike corridors.

Midway through its first season, the stadium is hardly familiar to the home teams. The Jets kickers practiced there last week for the first time. Kickers for the Giants, whose headquarters and practice fields are across the parking lot, go for about an hour on Fridays the week of home games.

“I know it does swirl,” Giants Coach Tom Coughlin said. “I know it is the crosswind. I can’t comment on the stronger part because I haven’t experienced that.”

On Oct. 31, the wind blew outside the stadium from the northwest at more than 20 miles an hour. Inside, quarterbacks for the Jets and the Green Bay Packers completed only 43 percent of their passes, and each team’s kicker missed a field-goal attempt. The Packers won, 9-0.

“It wasn’t too bad on the field,” Jets quarterback Mark Sanchez recalled. “Maybe that was a good thing. Maybe it’s not going to be as windy. We’ll know here in the next couple of weeks.”

Until then, there are no reliable conclusions.

“Nothing yet,” Sanchez said. “But it’s always windy in the Meadowlands.”

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4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

So if it's not as windy how did it happen that  1 time?  Fluke?  No matter the stadium the wind blows ever go over to the horse track? Same winds blow. 

WTF are you arguing?  And why?  
Yeah one cold game that was nowhere near as cold and windy as the worst in the old means nothing.  Bad argument

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6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

WTF are you arguing?  And why?  
Yeah one cold game that was nowhere near as cold and windy as the worst in the old means nothing.  Bad argument

Who's arguing? I thought we were having a discussion. 

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8 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Who's arguing? I thought we were having a discussion. 

Now, sitting in the stands, it’s not as bad as in the old place.  What it’s like on the field playing I obviously don’t know but overall doesn’t seem that bad given how games look like since it opened. 
 

Syracuse, NY – In four years of coaching with the New York Jets, Doug Marrone came to know well the tricky winds that swirled at the team’s former home field, Giants Stadium.

Marrone, now in his fourth year as head football coach at Syracuse University, said Tuesday that those fabled winds, which used to swirl so bad that the goal post streamers would sometimes blow toward one another from opposite ends of the field, aren’t nearly as bad in MetLife Stadium – the site of Saturday’s game between his Orange and No. 2 USC 

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