New England has ruined the NFL single-handedly

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

Someone denies it..... it’s @nyjunc ?

What? 

[sackdance]

38 minutes ago, PS17 said:

As long as Brady takes well under market value they’ll be at a significant advantage. 

As if he doesn't make it up somewhere else. 

Kraft might deserve as much credit as Brady & Belichick. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

27 minutes ago, CTM said:

Brady is going to retire soon and then they will find the sledding much more difficult

2007 Brady was irreplaceable. 2019 Brady isn't. They don't seem to be having much difficulty. The wait for him to retire and then everything is great plan seems like a pipe dream unless Belichick goes too.

[pdxgreen]

The NFL has only been interested in TV contracts and growing their international audience  over pretty much everything else.  They really have no transparency on anything and little interest wirh improving relationships with hardcore fans.  (We'll maybe convincing the parents of future potential players to sign those pee wee league permission slip.  But that's it.)  The NFL literally makes so much money that can afford to let owners be terrible and lack accountability in personnel. 

The NBA, by comparison, is hyper aware of quality control in every facet of their league because their fans constantly demand action and are social media junkies.  Lebron making a statement can literally cost them billions.  With the Pats still on top, all the time, the NFL still makes wads of cash.  With Cinci garbage, Washington a rotting cesspool and every owner cycling through "a hot candidate" every few years. That's if your local franchise doesn't take you to court and move to LA or Vegas.

The Patriots aren't the problem.  They are built for success and managed about as well as can be.  But the league needs to look at the overall "health" of its league... not just the top but the middle as well.  In the NBA: San Antomio, Toronto, the Clippers, Indiana, Portland, Utah, Miami, Houston, Boston, Memphis, Denver, Golden State... All the teams which consistently make good decisions and playoff pushes.  Nothing ever skips a beat because league policy and personnel are groomed at almost every level.  Big markets still dominate but the small markets are always well maintained.  Fromt offices can't afford to be lazy.  The "evil eye" in the organization all the time because if the players call their agents... it's all over. 

The NFL is a copycat league of nincompoops by comparison, always whining about the lack of good QBs and how college cant produce them any more.  Bill is who he is because he's a great coach but also he never let's ANYTHING slip.  No other NFL team is on that level.  Look at the league, not the Pat's.

 

[CTM]

7 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

2007 Brady was irreplaceable. 2019 Brady isn't. They don't seem to be having much difficulty. The wait for him to retire and then everything is great plan seems like a pipe dream unless Belichick goes too.

We'll see. I agree Brady has dropped off but hes still a top 10 guy and the Oats are feasting in the dregs of the NFL right now.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Just now, CTM said:

We'll see. I agree Brady has dropped off but hes still a top 10 guy and the Oats are feasting in the dregs of the NFL right now.

Nine other teams found top 10 guys. So can Belichick. And they get six games a year against the Jets, the Dolphins, and Josh Allen. The notion that what they're doing right now is unsustainable without Brady is super hopeful.

[FireTheJohnsons]

58 minutes ago, CTM said:

Brady is going to retire soon and then they will find the sledding much more difficult

Will they? As long as BB is there, I don’t think they miss a beat. Garapolo looks great, so does Brisett, the guy is two levels above the next best 

[Mike135]

We have visitors...

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[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

We have visitors...

https://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/threads/i-usually-dont-do-this-but.1150187/#post-5714600

JetNation 1000000000000000x better. 

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

JetNation 1000000000000000x better. 

*Edited 

Whoops misread your comment.

Yup you're right.

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Nine other teams found top 10 guys. So can Belichick. And they get six games a year against the Jets, the Dolphins, and Josh Allen. The notion that what they're doing right now is unsustainable without Brady is super hopeful.

Fair point on weak games against division going forward but I'm not even sure what they are doing right now. The defense seems like it's better than it's been in over a decade but until I see them play an NFL caliber offense I'm not ready for thier coronation. Not a lot of talent on offense either, slapping a guy like Teddy B (right around Brady in DVOA and DYAR) on that team and I think the offense looks a lot worse.

Offenses faced by DVOA:

#22

#31

#32

#23

#29

#26

#32

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 minutes ago, CTM said:

Fair point on weak games against division going forward but I'm not even sure what they are doing right now. The defense seems like it's better than it's been in over a decade but until I see them play an NFL caliber offense I'm not ready for thier coronation. Not a lot of talent on offense either, slapping a guy like Teddy B (right around Brady in DVOA and DYAR) on that team and I think the offense looks a lot worse.

Offenses faced by DVOA:

#22

#31

#32

#23

#29

#26

#32

You're making an argument about strength of schedule based on rankings in statistics that are ADJUSTED FOR SCHEDULE. Sweet ******* merciful crap this is good trolling.

[CTM]

5 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

You're making an argument about strength of schedule based on rankings in statistics that are ADJUSTED FOR SCHEDULE. Sweet ******* merciful crap this is good trolling.

I'm aware of what I'm quoting, my hypothesis is that because they've not played even a mediocre offense yet that DVOA doesn't know what to do with them. + I just read this at FO after my post. I'm not the only one questioning it.

 

Quote

When you combine the Patriots' near-record DVOA with their easy remaining schedule (they're 23rd in remaining schedule strength) and the overall weakness of the AFC, you get absurdly high Super Bowl odds. Our simulation has the Patriots winning the Super Bowl 44.7% of the time. That's much higher than the betting market, which currently has the Patriots around 2:1 odds (or 33%). I admit that I wonder if we're doing something wrong to have the Patriots so high. The problem is that I don't really have anything to compare them with. If you look at the table of the best teams in DVOA through seven games, you'll notice that most of them came before we founded Football Outsiders. There's only one time we've ever dealt with trying to figure out the odds related to a team that had a DVOA or DAVE rating this high. We did playoff odds in 2007, but a) I can't find an archive of our playoff odds from that year, and b) the 2007 team would definitely have lower Super Bowl odds because they had to compete with another historically good team, the Indianapolis Colts, that played in the same conference.

The only year that possibly allows for a comparison with the 2019 Patriots is 2014. That year, we listed Denver with a 30.3% chance of winning the Super Bowl after Week 8. The next team was Baltimore at 9.5%. The eventual champion, New England, was listed at only 3.2%.

Is the problem that DVOA simply overrates the 2019 Patriots? Maybe we just aren't adjusting enough for the fact they've had the easiest schedule in the league so far. Out of curiosity, I ran another simulation that gave the Patriots the same DAVE rating as the San Francisco 49ers, roughly 20 percentage points lower than what New England's rating actually is. The Patriots were still the Super Bowl favorite in those simulations, but only won the Super Bowl 23.3% of the time. (San Francisco was second, going up from 13.4% to 16.8%.) Those odds suggest that the market believes that the difference between the Patriots and the rest of the league is about half of what DVOA thinks it is.

 

[greenwichjetfan]

20 minutes ago, CTM said:

Fair point on weak games against division going forward but I'm not even sure what they are doing right now. The defense seems like it's better than it's been in over a decade but until I see them play an NFL caliber offense I'm not ready for thier coronation. Not a lot of talent on offense either, slapping a guy like Teddy B (right around Brady in DVOA and DYAR) on that team and I think the offense looks a lot worse.

Offenses faced by DVOA:

#22

#31

#32

#23

#29

#26

#32

What were the DVOA rankings of the chiefs and rams last year? 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

4 minutes ago, CTM said:

I'm aware of what I'm quoting, my hypothesis is that because they've not played even a mediocre offense yet that DVOA doesn't know what to do with them. + I just read this at FO after my post. I'm not the only one questioning it.

A gap between the Patriots and the rest of the league that is half of what DVOA thinks it is is still a gap between the Patriots and the rest of the league. Halve their pass defense and it's still 2009 Jets good. This is not like the Huard/Pennington thing as far as conflating the descriptive and predictive effects of turnover rates.

[CTM]

4 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

What were the DVOA rankings of the chiefs and rams last year? 

The chiefs hung 31 on the Pats despite Mahommes uncharacteristically missing some wide open big plays in the first half. The Rams were on thier way down by the time of the SB, their weighted DVOA had falled by over 25% at seasons end, Gurley was banged up or something and we've seen how this year has gone for them.

[CTM]

15 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

A gap between the Patriots and the rest of the league that is half of what DVOA thinks it is is still a gap between the Patriots and the rest of the league. Halve their pass defense and it's still 2009 Jets good. This is not like the Huard/Pennington thing as far as conflating the descriptive and predictive effects of turnover rates.

I've conceded several times that this is looking like the best Pats defense in over a decade, and that's even considering I'm more pessimistic about DVOA's ability to adjust for the crap they've faced.

Time will tell. I don't think they end up anywhere near the best of all time but we'll find out soon enough. I've given up hope that they aren't one of the best of this year.

 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Just now, CTM said:

I've conceded several times that this is looking like the best Pats defense in over a decade, and that'seven  considering I'm more pessimistic about DVOA's ability to adjust for the crap they've faced.

Time will tell. I don't think they end up anywhere near the best of all time but we'll find out soon enough. I've given up hope that they aren't one of the best of this year.

 

I don't think they're anywhere near the best of all time just like I don't think Brady is anywhere near peak Brady. Their dominance every bit as much a matter of everybody else being stupid as it is of them being smart. Which doesn't bode great for when Belichick leaves either.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I don't think they're anywhere near the best of all time

6 Super Bowl rings isn't enough to be considered greatest of all time in your book. 

[CTM]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

6 Super Bowl rings isn't enough to be considered greatest of all time in your book. 

good god joe

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

good god joe

I say we see where this goes.

[joewilly12]

7 minutes ago, CTM said:

good god joe

 

6 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

I say we see where this goes.

Seriously we cant change it. 6 Super Bowl rings isn't enough for you guys/gals to consider them best/greatest of all time. 

[Dunnie]

I really dont understand why its so difficult to replicate what they do. Seems like we were almost there until we hired Rex. At this point Belichick is dominating by such a wide margin its like he is the Babe Ruth if football.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

If we stuck with Mangini we might have actually fostered growth ... Hell Rex took his roster to the Playoffs.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[CTM]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

 

Seriously we cant change it. 6 Super Bowl rings isn't enough for you guys/gals to consider them best/greatest of all time. 

No. I have to admit if they get to 8 I'm willing to put them top 5 but 6 is easily attributed to a luck walk

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, CTM said:

No. I have to admit if they get to 8 I'm willing to put them top 5 but 6 is easily attributed to a luck walk

Who do you consider the greatest football team of all-time? 

QB? 

Head Coach? 

[funaz]

Until we hired Rex? The most successful coach in Jets history outside of weeb is where we went wrong?

I really dont understand why its so difficult to replicate what they do. Seems like we were almost there until we hired Rex. At this point Belichick is dominating by such a wide margin its like he is the Babe Ruth if football.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[CTM]

41 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Who do you consider the greatest football team of all-time? 

QB? 

Head Coach? 

2009 Jets

Sam Darnold

Rex Ryan

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, CTM said:

2009 Jets

Sam Darnold

Rex Ryan

I figured you had nothing. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

53 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Who do you consider the greatest football team of all-time? 

QB? 

Head Coach? 

one that doesn't cheat

mark sanchez

one that doesn't cheat

[joewilly12]

Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

one that doesn't cheat

mark sanchez

one that doesn't cheat

You have nothing either. 

[NYJ1]

NE hasn't ruined anything. The JETS, on the other hand, have destroyed their team over the last 8 seasons. The Jets used to be the team that gave the patsies the worst hell. In fact, the Jets were once considered around the 2010 time frame to be a BETTER team than the patsies. They just couldn't handle our dominance at the line of scrimmage.

Now we're so inferior that it's a joke and beating us is a mere formality for the patsies.

ALL of this is due to legendary screw ups. Moves, draftng, and hires that had 31 other teams laughing at us. Now we're in the unenviable position of having to start all over again. When does this vicious cycle end? When will this team unf*ck themselves and start experiencing some winning?

My point is this narrative being put forth about the patsies ruining the league wouldn't even be something we cared about or even talked about if we were still that team from 2009, 2010. Let's fix our own problems and stop giving a sh*t about others.

[usanyj]

5 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

I think EVERY fan wants that, as long as it's their team.  Everything else is just sour grapes.  

Said the same thing to my wife. I told her if the Jets had dominated for 20 years I’d be on top of the world. She then said, “I don’t know, that’s not fair.” I told her if that ever happens to the jets and you say this, I’m waking... we have a good time the wife and I 

[jeTMAC]

2 hours ago, ElBarrioJets said:

PARITY. 

Read a goddamn book. 

Something tells me that makes you feel really good.  Sorry I mispeled

[wizwor]

4 hours ago, CTM said:

Brady is going to retire soon and then they will find the sledding much more difficult

Probably not.  When BB replaced the franchise QB with a 6th round pick, he built a dominant defense and coached the QB not to lose.  Now that Brady is past his peak, Coach is focusing on defense again while looking for a QB who will not lose games.  Not sure that guy in on the roster (I think he is in SF), but that is the plan...again.

[wizwor]

1 hour ago, NYJ1 said:

The JETS, on the other hand, have destroyed their team over the last 8 seasons. The Jets used to be the team that gave the patsies the worst hell. In fact, the Jets were once considered around the 2010 time frame to be a BETTER team than the patsies. They just couldn't handle our dominance at the line of scrimmage.

My favorite Jet of all time is Joe Namath.  All he did was promise to win a championship and deliver.  Every team needs a guy like that.  The Jets should be sold to a management team that is at least represented by Namath.  He could recruit other winners.  That would be something.