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Darnold Is NOT the Problem


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2 hours ago, jgb said:

Here is the problem: it needs to be someone’s problem. Jets fans have worked themselves into a circular argument that it’s not Gase’s fault that he has bad talent and it’s not the players’ fault that they have bad coaching.

It is Gase’s fault the guy is beyond a fraud

 

Ryan Tannehill just played the game of his life — getting away from Adam Gase saved his career

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1 hour ago, carlito1171 said:

Ok....we know the protection schemes have been god awful this year....i don’t remember seeing this many free rushers and protection errors from a Jet team ever....even from previous terrible OLs.....You can’t put it all on Sam but he has to get some of the blame for Monday night. Like I said to Who fans....there are outcomes when you’re flustered that don’t include chucking the ball into the #1 defense. The other alarming part is how many of these picks came in or near the red zone. Just can’t happen...

Nobody is absolving him of how bad he has played.... He was bad... I was giving perspective on a few turnovers that he called something out and the players didn't listen causing a chain reaction such as a strip sack.... If Robby runs the route that Sam hot checked to that could be a TD... Or at least a 30 yard gain... Robby runs vertical and Sam has to hold too long. Result is a strip sack. 

I am simply combating that absurd narrative that all of a sudden now he is the worst QB in the league and amount to nothing crowd that popped up after this game. 

I realize that a lot of the reaction is from how embarrassing it is and posters are emotional about it. I am showing how it is not nearly as bad as it looks and gase was calling the correct plays at times and that darnold was doing everything right at times and because it seems his offense screwed him over repeatedly. 

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3 hours ago, jgb said:

Here is the problem: it needs to be someone’s problem. Jets fans have worked themselves into a circular argument that it’s not Gase’s fault that he has bad talent and it’s not the players’ fault that they have bad coaching.

It's everyone's issue... It was one player on this play... The next on this play.... A dumb play call here a bad throw there... Add a coach and defense that dares you not to screw up And then It becomes what you saw. The crowd around here that blame one person like darnold is all the problem, or extrapolates this into his whole career are idiotic. 

I think the coaches are mostly to blame because if everyone is having trouble understanding the offense it must be the teachers not explaining well enough or dumb students

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8 hours ago, daquix said:

You mean the game where he scored 21 points in the first half and then did literally nothing in the 2nd half when the Cowboys made adjustments and it nearly cost them the game when the Cowboys came back?

That game?

Fail. 

He was dicing up the Boys secondary well throughout the second half. Just because TDs were not scored does not mean he did "literally nothing". 

Did you even watch the game? Or just form your incorrect opinion based off the 2 minute Sportscenter highlight? 

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24 minutes ago, Skeptable said:

Nobody is absolving him of how bad he has played.... He was bad... I was giving perspective on a few turnovers that he called something out and the players didn't listen causing a chain reaction such as a strip sack.... If Robby runs the route that Sam hot checked to that could be a TD... Or at least a 30 yard gain... Robby runs vertical and Sam has to hold too long. Result is a strip sack. 

I am simply combating that absurd narrative that all of a sudden now he is the worst QB in the league and amount to nothing crowd that popped up after this game. 

I realize that a lot of the reaction is from how embarrassing it is and posters are emotional about it. I am showing how it is not nearly as bad as it looks and gase was calling the correct plays at times and that darnold was doing everything right at times and because it seems his offense screwed him over repeatedly. 

Yea. It’s like I said earlier in the week it’s sad we live in a overreactionary hot take society....Sam wasn’t getting inducted in Canton after the Dallas game....and he isn’t all of a sudden a bust after that terrible NE game....my stance is simply that we don’t know what Darnold is yet. You are what you produce consistently and through 16 NFL starts Darnold has been a mixed bag... 

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9 hours ago, daquix said:

FACT 2: Bad O-lines do not make bad QB’s.

Case in point - The Texans O-line has been the worst line in the league for 3 years. That’s why they gave up a TON to get Tunsil.

Despite having a terrible O-Line, Watson has been a Pro-Bowl QB.

Same thing for Andrew Luck. Pro Bowl QB behind a terrible O-line for the majority of his years there.

Same thing for Russel Wilson. Terrible O-line nearly every year. Russ don’t care. Pro Bowl after Pro Bowl.

For nearly all of Brady’s career, his stats against pressure were higher than in a clean pocket.

Again - Bad O lines don’t make bad QB’s.

Bad QB’s do.

Stop making excuses for Darnold sucking.

Along with your other comment, where do you form these opinions off of? Quick sportscenter blurbs? 30 second Stephen A Smith hot takes? 

Watson, Luck, and Wilson ALL had twice the college game experience before being drafted that Darnold has had and can be considered outlying talents, so comparing them is completely off base. You do realize even with college and NFL starts added together, Darnold has not started the same amount of college games any of those guys did? 

Russel has not had a "terrible O Line every year", In fact he had one of the best for at least half of his time there. A line that helped Beast mode do his thing and a few no name RBs look like pro bowlers. 

Luck had a bad O Line indeed, BUT that O Line got him KILLED every year and directly led to his retirement. He may have performed well at times, but he wasn't on the field for half his time due to that O Line. I have personally been at every Colts game he ever played in Indy because my girlfriend and my sister are both cheerleaders for the team, so I have seen his performances up close from. His best season performance....he had one of the top 3 O Lines in the league sooooo? And you clearly never saw Peyton Mannings first 16 games either. Terrible O Line, made a hall of fame QB look pedestrian. 

Brady comment is just wrong. It's well documented when pressure is applied to Brady that he loses composure. Our very own team has proven that in the past a few times, along with the Giants and Ravens.

I fully believe you dont watch any of these games that any of these players play in. Nothing you say can make me believe so at this point. Go back to forming your opinions off of Around the Horn. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, carlito1171 said:

Ok....we know the protection schemes have been god awful this year....i don’t remember seeing this many free rushers and protection errors from a Jet team ever....even from previous terrible OLs.....You can’t put it all on Sam but he has to get some of the blame for Monday night. Like I said to Who fans....there are outcomes when you’re flustered that don’t include chucking the ball into the #1 defense. The other alarming part is how many of these picks came in or near the red zone. Just can’t happen...

Yea - and those red zone picks were just complete nonsense throw up a prayer type of INT's. That was the worst part of his performance.

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11 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Curious what makes Darnold's skillset better than say... Matt Stafford?

Skill-set references the psychical tools to be great, Sam has it and so does Stafford.  - Different types of players.  Sam seems to be more accurate, Matt's arm is stronger...But Stafford does dumb things too often. 

Sam has shown both sides of that coin so far - we'll see if he can figure out the mind part of the game.

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11 hours ago, Skeptable said:

More that they don't listen or don't understand more then unprepared

Sorry, I'm not sure if you were kidding here or not.

But if you're not, it's the coaches job is to make sure they listen and understand.  If they don't understand then he needs to find a way to explain so he does....if they aren't listening, well that's even worse.

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1 hour ago, daquix said:

Nope, just facts. 

I know they're in short supply on this forum...

The experience argument is invalid.

Brady was winning his first super bowl in his 16th(?) game.

Roethlisberger won the SB in his 2nd season.

Russel Wilson won the SB in his 2nd season.

I could go on and on and on...

Wrong...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2579050-offensive-lines-in-crisis-why-the-seahawks-saints-and-others-are-in-trouble

Wrong...

Peyton didn't look pedestrian his rookie season.

He looked really, really, really good. 

He threw a lot of INT's because he was trying to make plays happen (gunslinging).
 

Wrong again...

https://clutchpoints.com/patriots-news-tom-brady-better-passer-rating-under-pressure-than-any-other-qb-has-overall/

Someone doesn't watch these games, but it's not me.

I just put a clinic on you.

Lmao in your own mind you did (especially self proclaiming you put a clinic on someone lol just proves how delusional you are) Anyone can get some select articles from select websites to support their arguments. That's extremely easy and I could easily spend the next hour doing the same to support anything I type in this box. 

So you argue half these QBs win their superbowls in their 2nd season , yet Sam has essentially played only 1 season. Not sure what your point is right there.

Brady came in to a team that already had about 10 Pro Bowl players on roster, and literally lucked into his first Superbowl with the most egregious blown call in football history. Not sure what your point is there. 

Russel Wilson came in to a team with arguably one of the greatest defense to ever play the game. Again, about a half dozen Pro Bowk players on the roster. Not sure what your point is there. 

Big Ben walks on to a Steeler roster with again, half a dozen Pro Bowlers and arguably a top 10 all time wideout, and double the game experience Darnold has. Not sure what your point is there. 

Peyton did not look "really really good" his rookie season. He looked average and people were still clamoring that Ryan Leaf may be better than him at the time. I grew up right across from the RCA Dome in Indy during all of this, I'm fully aware of how Peyton was perceived here. 

Sam Darnold drafted on to a team with 1 or 2 Pro Bowlers. Coaching change after rookie season. No Wideouts. No starting level offensive line. And you're comparing him to those other guys situations? 

You're insane. 

 

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5 hours ago, daquix said:

Nope, just facts. 

I know they're in short supply on this forum...

The experience argument is invalid.

Brady was winning his first super bowl in his 16th(?) game.

Roethlisberger won the SB in his 2nd season.

Russel Wilson won the SB in his 2nd season.

I could go on and on and on...

Wrong...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2579050-offensive-lines-in-crisis-why-the-seahawks-saints-and-others-are-in-trouble

Wrong...

Peyton didn't look pedestrian his rookie season.

He looked really, really, really good. 

He threw a lot of INT's because he was trying to make plays happen (gunslinging).
 

Wrong again...

https://clutchpoints.com/patriots-news-tom-brady-better-passer-rating-under-pressure-than-any-other-qb-has-overall/

Someone doesn't watch these games, but it's not me.

I just put a clinic on you.

I can break it down a little bit more so you can digest it better. 

 

First 3 seasons for each QB: Pro Bowlers/Team

 

Brady - 28 College Starts and a Senior: 

2001-  Troy Brown/Ty Law/Lawyer Milloy (3)

2002- Larry Izzo/Ty Law/Lawyer Milloy/Richard Seymour/Adam Vinateri/Damien Woody (6 with 1 on the O Line)

2003- Ty Law/Willie McGinest/Richard Seymour/Rodney Harrison/Tedy Brushci (5)

 

Rothlesburger - 38 College Starts and a Senior: 

2004- Alan Faneca/James Farrior/Jeff Hartings/Joey Porter/Aarom Smith/Marvel Smith/Hines Ward/Jerome Bettis/Troy Polamalu (9 with 3 on the O Line alone)

2005- Alan Faneca/Casey Hampton/Jeff Hartings/Joeu Porter/Troy Polamalu (5 with 2 on the O Line)

2006- Alan Faneca/Casey Hampton/Troy Polamalu/Santonio Holmes/Parker (5 with 2 on the O Line and a WR)

 

Wilson - 50 College Starts and a Senior: 

2012- Marshawn Lynch/Russell Okung/Earl Thomas/Max Ungar/Leon Washington/Richard Sherman (6 with 2 on the O line) 

2013- Kam Chancellor/Marshawn Lynch/Richard Sherman/Earl Thomas/Max Ungar (5 with 1 on the O Line) 

2014- Kam Chancellor/Marshawn Lynch/Richard Sherman/Earl Thomas/Max Ungar/Bobby Wagner (6 with 1 on the O Line) 

 

Now... the Jets for Darnold- 26 College Starts: 

2018- Jamal Adams/Jason Meyers/Andre Roberts (3 with 0 on the O Line and 2 are special teamers neither with the team now) 

 

Notice a trend? You probably dont but each team is loaded with talent and their QBs have pro bowl O Lines during their SB runs. 

 

So.... THATS how you want to compare their situations?

 

 

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21 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

You're unhinged, bro. Yeah, let's sh*t all over the only player of importance this clown shoes franchise has ever had, to defend that absolute dumpster fire we had at QB on Monday. LOL. 

 

The Cowboys? Now were hanging our hat on a double move in a DB that slipped on the play against a team that was completely looking past a crap team to a much more important game against a division rival the following week. LOL. 

 

I bet you were sh*tti g on Namath and sucking Genos dick back in '13 when he "won a shootout against the Bills" and looked.somewhat competent in garbage time of a lost season. 

 

Darnold has played well in 4 games out of the 16 he has now played. That's 25%. That's not "lame math", that's Math. On top of that, he has managed to embarrass this team several times now. Mono? LOL. Ghosts? This kid has managed Sanchez level embarrassment in 1/5 the time. 

 

Whatever. Go ahead and sling insults and get hyper defensive.  It won't change the fact that this team is a dumpster fire and the QB is regressing under its clueless Head Coach. 

 

 

It’s one game, BRO.  
 

Only a total fool gives up after one game.   It not worth even talking about.  It’s as stupid as this board has ever gotten.  You’re butt hurt like others because he had as bad a game as anyone could have against the wrong team.  I get it.  Now wake up, grow up and move on 

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22 hours ago, GuitarJet said:

True, but this also indicates that our young QB actually does gets it, can make the  right calls, and is not as clueless as NFL films, Rich Eisen, ESPN and the rest of the world think he is.  His learning curve is learn to throw the ball OOB or in the dirt like Brady and take the grounding penalty when his receivers and O-line spit the bit.  And FFS lets pray that this is the LAST time the Jets braintrust authorizes a mic'ed up 22 year old QB.    

You are 100% correct of course.  My silly comment was meant to be just that a silly comment :)  

You come out here making grown up points! The truth is Darnold will become the problem if the coaches can’t get the players around him to perform better.  Remember when his OC said a few weeks ago “Sam you have to trust your players”. Now. We know why Sam Darnold wasn’t trusting them and freelancing in his play because guys are not doing what the are supposed to do from the OL, TEs and WRs and it is scary that Darnold has to play like “is this the play that so and so will do what they are supposed to do”

I for one like Sam Darnold he never called anyone out for their sabotaging him and that also speaks volumes about his character.    

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On 10/23/2019 at 4:39 PM, JetsLife said:

Brady himself would admit he’s a also a product of a superior OC and superior game plan week in week out. I know because I know enough broadly and semi directly to know. 

You place Darnold in the Pats system and he would light it up. Obviously not to the GOAT’s level starting out - but he’d light it up over time if not within a few weeks  

If we wish to point fingers point then point every which way but young Sammy Darnold. The kid has the skills. He’s been thrust in to awful awful awful coaching above all. This offensive line deficiency talk has merit to it. But it is, has been and always will be about the acumen of your OC and broader operation to put your QB in a position to succeed. 

Please all you anti Darnold-ers: no QB ever or Usain Bolt would’ve escaped that Monday night. 

Wake up. It’s NOT Darnold. It’s everyone else BUT him. 

We know its the Ghosts

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Anyone with a brain knows that Sam Darnold is not the problem. The problems with this team are the following:

1) Roster - this is the largest part of the problem. This Mac roster makes you think he must have been working for the competition and sabotaging the Jets? NO ONE can put together this kind of complete sh*t roster without actually TRYING to f*ck things up. Besides a few players, this roster wouldn't even be good enough for other teams practice squad. It is completely sh*t from top to bottom.

2) Coaching STAFF - I'm not ready to give up on Gase and his staff, but put very simply.... He CANNOT work with this roster. There's a part of me that wants to defend him? He's working with the worst players. I still think we need to see Gase with a decent roster to get a real take on him.

When Sammy isn't facing a supremely more talented roster and coaching staff, he instantly becomes a much better player. That's the sign of a good player that hasn't learned how to beat those uber talented teams. I'm not sure with this roster he'll EVER be able to beat a good team? 

The bottom line is the problem we've been complaining about for years. The drafting is SH*T. Until that changes, the Jets are always going to be a laughingstock.

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On 10/23/2019 at 9:24 PM, ScarletKnight89 said:

Totally agree.

He played against a good Buffalo defense, the line did a bad job protecting him, and what did he do? He protected the football, completed a high percentage of short passes (took what the defense gave him), and had his team in a position to win the game. The defense and kicker blew it.

Sam had a solid performance in that game. Was he great? No, but if that's a bad performance from him I can certainly live with those types of games from time to time against good defenses. 

And lets not forget, with mono.

And compared to Brady and all the other good QBs the Bills have shut down, Sam was somehow better against that D than the those QBs.  

He comes back, has the impressive game against Dallas and fans are high fiving each other

Has a bad game, no matter how bad, against the wrong team to have a bad game against, especially while the OL anf WRs have an equally bad game and all hell breaks lose.

Its too predictable, know exactly whos going to come running and what theyre going to say things like he was only good 25% if the season or whatever 

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On 10/24/2019 at 12:18 AM, Philc1 said:

So when the spurs beat the Knicks tonight after the Knicks led with 8 minutes left in the game do the spurs only get credit for a good 8 minutes?

What the F does this mean?

WTF is saying this? 

Has nothing to do with what he said

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