How long will it take to fix the Jets Oline

[BettyBoop]

2 minutes ago, jetscrazey said:

Jets will have >80m in cap room.  Sometimes you gotta overpay for a culture change.  Scherff is the kind of guy who can turn a running game around and hold his own in the passing game. 

If there's one guy to overpay it's Scherff.

[TheClashFan]

At least two years, and that's only if the Jets nail two early round picks (LT and C?) in 2020.  Even good rookies have a bit of a learning curve and could take a year or two to emerge as quality starters.

Probably sign at least one good OL starter, but those guys are rarely available. Avoid Mac strategy of signing mediocre to bad vet castoffs from other teams.

2021, draft a couple more guys, and maybe another FA signing.

[TNJet]

It can be fixed in this years draft if we draft 3 of the best olinemen in the draft at Lt. C. And G.

[TheClashFan]

1 minute ago, BettyBoop said:

If there's one guy to overpay it's Scherff.

They should seriously consider him, esp. if they draft LT and C in upcoming draft.  You can overpay Scherff if you've got a couple of guys on rookie or bargain deals starting.  Maybe Lewis is a relatively cheap keeper at LG or Edoga at RT?

 

[Apache 51]

1 minute ago, TNJet said:

It can be fixed in this years draft if we draft 3 of the best olinemen in the draft at Lt. C. And G.

We know thats not gonna happen, plus take time to get used to big boy league and gel too.

[Sonny Werblin]

OMG!!!!! The Jets can certainly create and implement a plan to improve the O line, but PLEASE stop making it sound like it will be easy to convert the decade-long-in-the-making mess that is the O line into an above average crew. It is HARD! There is a reason that every team does not have an above average O line. That reason is that it often takes time for drafted O lineman to develop and it is not easy to hit on every draft pick. As to free agents, oftentimes when a free agent hits his big pay day, his "compete" level drops. It is human nature. i.e. you work really hard to get your big payday and when that day comes your main reason to work really hard no longer exists.

So, all of you gimokes who think building a successful O line see simply requires spending 2 draft picks on a C and LT and signing a free agent or two, please stop. You sound like Mac. It's not easy. It's hard. It will require many draft picks, and the signing of the the right free agent. It will require lots and lots of scouting and interviews and investigations and homework, and then after all of that it will also require good luck.

[Chrebetfan80]

depends the level of improvement youre looking for...

 

2 years to be a good to average offensive line.  Alex Lewis looks like he could hold down a guard spot, and i do believe chuma can be a good starter at one of the tackles spots.  If they're able to solve 2 of LT, C, G this year then they go from god awful to good/average.

Then the next year you put it all together and have a good line. 

[y2k8]

"Never draft for need," they say.  "Always draft best available player," they say.

Nonsense.

That mentality has led us to where we are today.

I expect no less than 3 OL drafted in the first 5 rounds in the next draft.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

"Never draft for need," they say.  "Always draft best available player," they say.

Nonsense.

That mentality has led us to where we are today.

The caveat is that you always draft the best available with position importance in mind.  

[Bomberjet]

54 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

To be fair, when TB was young they had a very talented O line group with all-pros. Now that TB is all world, he can look good without all-pros on his line, but make no mistake about it, the guys on his O line are good players. 

And more importantly, as evidence that it takes time and draft capital to build an O line, here is how the Pats spent draft capital on O linemen in the past 4 years:

2016 -  2nd and 6th round

2017 - 3rd and 6th round

2018 - 1st round

2019 - 3rd and 4th round

In that same time period, the Jets spend one draft pick on an O lineman. A 5th round pick (Shell) in 2016.

So, it takes time and draft capital to build a successful O line because you don't hit on every pick and it doesn't happen overnight. 

Well if you want to be fair,  those higher picks you've listed are TE's , which the Jets are fine with, imo.

There's been all screaming and hollering about the Guards and Tackles which most are concerned with. I don't think the Jets have issues with their TE's -

My argument is , screw the capitol , fix the coaching, at this point in time, Worry about the capitol or personnel during the off-season

[MicDrass1]

Get Matt Gono from Atlanta.  He graded out the highest on there team in the preseason while starting each preseason game.  6.5 330lb Monster that can run sub 5.0.  They are trying hard to hide him but just activated him.  He can play T and G 

[Sonny Werblin]

1 hour ago, Bomberjet said:

Well if you want to be fair,  those higher picks you've listed are TE's , which the Jets are fine with, imo.

There's been all screaming and hollering about the Guards and Tackles which most are concerned with. I don't think the Jets have issues with their TE's -

My argument is , screw the capitol , fix the coaching, at this point in time, Worry about the capitol or personnel during the off-season

TEs??? Not sure what you are talking about. Here are the Pats O line picks for the past 4 drafts.

1 first round pick; 3 Thirds; 1 fourth, and 2 sixths.

4 Tackles and 3 Guards. No Tight Ends.

2019    3    Yodny Cajuste    T

2019    4    Hjalte Froholdt   G

2018    1    Isaiah Wynn        T

2017    3    Antonio Garcia    T

2017    6    Conor McDermott    T

2016    3    Joe Thuney     G

2016    6    Ted Karras      G

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Only thing is there wasn’t a Quentin Nelson in last year’s draft.  Not even close. Colts got lucky the same year they trade down a generational Guard talent is there at 6 

 Itching worse than complying who is what, will whatever in October 

[jeremy2020]

Well, if you believe in PFF then the Bills line went from bad to good in one offseason. 

[MicDrass1]

Pats spent entire drsft one year drafting 3-4 ol 

[MicDrass1]

Or jets will End up like a pennington situation playing the franchise qb behind backup ol in preseason the year after his coming out party in the nfl.  Wrist done 

[bealeb319]

I honestly think this only has to take one season to fix. We are getting into position to have our pick of the top left tackle in the first. Centers usually fall to the early second or late first which we should be able to trade up and snag. It is not impossible to think we could walk out of the draft with the top lt and center prospects those are your foundations. We could and should look to grab a pair of guards and a right tackle in free agency then double tap at guard later in the draft. Guards and right tackle would be more or less a stop gap because you want to stagger the contracts of the linemen (you don't want to owe your entire offensive line a contract at once after they spent 4 years building chemistry). The final product of a very solid offensive line can easily be done in two drafts three at the most but you have to commit to it.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[phill1c]

10 hours ago, isired said:

20 hours ago, phill1c said:

An offseason.
It really only takes two reasonably better OL to compensate for the rest.
Harrisson upgrades the C position
I'd like to see a whole new left side.

I'd add some depth and half a season with the pieces in place, but agree it's not a 3 year plan.

nope, it's not a 3-year plan. For the Jets, it's a "forever" plan. For most teams, they never got as bad as our OL is...playing. I really don't know if the new LT can get better. I know we need to move on from Beachum. I know we need to move on from Kalil. I know--tho apparently others don't--we need to move on from Winters.

But do you need more than A year to get three new starters? Maybe you get one great on in the 1st or 2nd round. Then you let Harrison man the center spot. That leaves finding out if the rookie can cut it and finding Winters' replacement. That doesn't sound too difficult...

with effective coaching and additional targets on the outside.

like I said, for the Jets, a "forever"-year plan...

[phill1c]

6 hours ago, Bomberjet said:

IMO, it's all about the coaching. That would be the ideal quick fix to get the OL back into gear. The norm that everyone seems to over emphasize is that the Jets are lacking in talent. Well, I'm not so sure.

If you take a team like the Patriots, for example, year in , year out , their drafting has not been of the top tier yet they seem to still be winning the division , making it to the playoffs , winning superbowls, etc, etc. and with what?

Lets look at their OL personnel:

Marcus Cannon - OT - Drafted RD5     

Korey Cunningham - OT - Drafted RD7

Marshall Newhouse - OT - Drafted RD5

James Ferentz - C -  Rookie free agent - Texans

Ted Karras - C -  Drafted RD6

Jermaine Eluemunor - G  - Drafted RD5

Shaq Mason - G - Drafted RD4

Joe Thuney - G - Drafted - RD3

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that it doesn't require 1st, 2nd round picks to build a good line. Reason why is that Bill Bellicheck is taking a page  from Bill Parcells' Draft 101 guide book - don't reach for OL in the high rds.

The one factor of course is that Patriot management & scouts did their home work. But at the end of the day rounds 4-7 are still crap shoots.

With that said  the #1 on the Jets to-do list : FIRE the OL coach!!   Right now.  We know Gase isn't going  to be axed without first looking at the lower tier coaching staff.                                                                                                               

 

In theory, this is true. But most people are NOT Bill Belichek.

And, of course, the system is the same and there has been significant continuity and a guy named Brady who is always there.

Thing about the Jets has been--and hopefully Joe Douglas breaks this mold--THEY CAN'T ****!!N DRAFT!! They draft a OL in the 2nd round and bust. Not to mention other later round busts so bad I can't even remember their names. You could give previous Jets GMs the first pick in all the rounds and they would come away with ONE stud, two injured guys, and the rest out of the league in three years.

I think there is no one set way to build a team. But two things are necessary

• Recognizing and obtaining THE RIGHT talent, and
• Being able to develop it

That doesn't sound like ANY of the past three Jets HCs or GMs.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

It really doesn't take that much in terms of personnel. Nothing to Ferguson in 2006 and Beachum to Edoga this year took us from the bottom of the league in adjusted sack rate to the middle of the pack and back.

The question of how many resources we need to dump into the line to make Darnold look good probably has a different answer.

[Ron Rico]

It took Bill Parcells one season. 

[Embrace the Suck]

You can do it in one off-season and have them come together that season.  Draft and sign FAs like the Oline is a priority and it won't take long. You don't need generational prospects either, just hard working athletic enough starters with room to grow.

[isired]

You can do it in one off-season and have them come together that season.  Draft and sign FAs like the Oline is a priority and it won't take long. You don't need generational prospects either, just hard working athletic enough starters with room to grow.

Exactly. Look at the Patriots - for every Matt Light/Dan Koppen/Logan Mankins/Nate Solder there's a handful of Joe Andruzzi/Tom Ashworth/Steve Neal/Bryan Storks.

 

[sirlancemehlot]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The caveat is that you always draft the best available with position importance in mind.  

But what if you have three first rounders at a given position (DT) and the best available plays that position?  Then he doesn't help because you don't need him, whereas the next best or third best player available might fill a huge need.  So yeah, BAP when it suits, but otherwise need is the way to go.  Because you don't really know who the best players are until they suit up in the NFL anyway.

[Jets723]

Probably 2.  It’s obvious Douglas is getting a lot of extra picks and is gonna draft a lot of oline men.  

[Philc1]

1 hour ago, Coquito said:

It took Bill Parcells one season. 

Yup and he inherited an even bigger sh-tshow 

[Philc1]

10 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

It is a window into how dimly the coaching staff viewed Harrison. I'm not saying they were right about Harrison. It is hard to imagine that he would be worse than Kalil. But the signing of Kalil was a clear vote of no confidence in Harrison.

I don’t trust Gase’s personnel evaluation at all

[Jetsfan80]

But what if you have three first rounders at a given position (DT) and the best available plays that position?  Then he doesn't help because you don't need him, whereas the next best or third best player available might fill a huge need.  So yeah, BAP when it suits, but otherwise need is the way to go.  Because you don't really know who the best players are until they suit up in the NFL anyway.

 

DT’s who rush the passer are very different from standard DT’s. Leo is in the latter group. QW is as well.

 

Hence why I wanted Ed Oliver, who is a pure pass rushing DT with off the charts athleticism.

 

[Raideraholic]

On 10/27/2019 at 10:23 PM, jeTMAC said:

1 year 2 years or 3 years?

 

On 10/27/2019 at 10:23 PM, jeTMAC said:

1 year 2 years or 3 years?

Depends on how lucky the Jets are in the draft. The Jets find a franchise Lt , and he plays like it.( there are a lot of  supposed can’t misses Lt, that bust out)     Than that’s a big piece of building a quality offense line a lot faster .( team miss on that Lt, and it can set back a franchise for years). 
You sign the best right tackle in Fa , and suddenly you are in business.    You can get quality interior offense lineman 2-4 rounds that can come in an start from day one.

It wasn’t by accident the last time the Jets had a great offense line they drafted a top Lt prospect,( D Brickshaw Ferguson).     You find that cornerstone on the offense line , and suddenly things are looking up for building a top notch offense line. 

So it depends on how long it takes to find that Lt prospect.( one player can make a difference).

[Bomberjet]

20 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

TEs??? Not sure what you are talking about. Here are the Pats O line picks for the past 4 drafts.

1 first round pick; 3 Thirds; 1 fourth, and 2 sixths.

4 Tackles and 3 Guards. No Tight Ends.

2019    3    Yodny Cajuste    T

2019    4    Hjalte Froholdt   G

2018    1    Isaiah Wynn        T

2017    3    Antonio Garcia    T

2017    6    Conor McDermott    T

2016    3    Joe Thuney     G

2016    6    Ted Karras      G

I  looked at 2 2019 rosters including the one on the Pats site  and I don't see listing for Wynn, Froholdt or Cajuste. So maybe we can assume that they are injured?

[Bomberjet]

17 hours ago, phill1c said:

In theory, this is true. But most people are NOT Bill Belichek.

And, of course, the system is the same and there has been significant continuity and a guy named Brady who is always there.

Thing about the Jets has been--and hopefully Joe Douglas breaks this mold--THEY CAN'T ****!!N DRAFT!! They draft a OL in the 2nd round and bust. Not to mention other later round busts so bad I can't even remember their names. You could give previous Jets GMs the first pick in all the rounds and they would come away with ONE stud, two injured guys, and the rest out of the league in three years.

I think there is no one set way to build a team. But two things are necessary

• Recognizing and obtaining THE RIGHT talent, and
• Being able to develop it

That doesn't sound like ANY of the past three Jets HCs or GMs.

Very true that the question is if they are drafting the right talent and being able to develop it.

When you review the players they drafted just from their college achievements , it was hard to question 99% just based on that alone, ignoring for the fact they didn't pick a position of need. That tells me that the coaching wasn't there to refine their skills to fit the system. It's baffling to think otherwise why they've had bad drafts. 

Consider this:  the OL is considered a non-skilled position. Bill Parcells believes it to be a waste to pick those positions in the 1st 2 rounds. With all his success , I have to believe it's the coaching, and to a lesser degree, talent.

[ItsTheSameOldJets]

1 full year if we are lucky and focused 

[jetstream23]

On 10/27/2019 at 7:23 PM, jeTMAC said:

How long will it take to fix the Jets Oline

 

A little longer now that it seems they're keeping Jamal Adams.

[ChuckkieB]

On 10/27/2019 at 10:23 PM, jeTMAC said:

How long will it take to fix the Jets Oline

1 year 2 years or 3 years?

However long it takes to fire Gase. 

[Ex-Rex]

On 10/27/2019 at 10:23 PM, jeTMAC said:

1 year 2 years or 3 years?

Depends on if they keep Gase. He is running a zone blocking scheme with power blockers that don't have the agility to play that way. The Jets have an extra pick in the draft and I think Doulas is smart enough to build the line up. I think he takes a tackle and a center or guard with one of his top three picks.