ZachEY Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 The Hot Take Factories have been running overtime. My question is, if, at this point in his career, you still view Sam Darnold as unquestionably the answer at QB, what could change that? Seems to me, that right now, that opinion is pretty solidified, and Sam is great but is unable to play great because of the line, the WRs, and Gase. So, is there anything that can change that for you in Sam’s play, or does he get a pass until Gase is gone, the line is fixed, and we have better WRs? For context, he has 8 turnovers in 2 weeks, and has the 3rd most INTs despite missing 3 games, as well as the league leading INT% by a meaningful margin. So, again, anything that would make you change your opinion from “he’s being ruined,” to “he’s just not good?” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 pre-Gase, Sam was promising. With Gase Sam is not promising. The facts are that this team is pretty much the same team as last year + Lev Bell and Crowder on offense and we look worse. Yes Beachum is hurt but the offense has looked the same all year. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post The Voice of Reason Posted October 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2019 5 minutes ago, TeddEY said: The Hot Take Factories have been running overtime. My question is, if, at this point in his career, you still view Sam Darnold as unquestionably the answer at QB, what could change that? Seems to me, that right now, that opinion is pretty solidified, and Sam is great but is unable to play great because of the line, the WRs, and Gase. So, is there anything that can change that for you in Sam’s play, or does he get a pass until Gase is gone, the line is fixed, and we have better WRs? For context, he has 8 turnovers in 2 weeks, and has the 3rd most INTs despite missing 3 games, as well as the league leading INT% by a meaningful margin. So, again, anything that would make you change your opinion from “he’s being ruined,” to “he’s just not good?” If next year he has clean pockets and is still throwing more INTs then TDs... Until he has a decent OL, how can you really judge.... 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playtowinthegame Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Continue doing what he's doing for the rest of the season and I'm pretty sure everyone but @nico002 will think he's not good. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I’m hanging on to his red shirt freshman year his instincts that year made me believe he was the best prospect since Luck. unfortunately the 3 years since, he’s looked totally different 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FidelioJet Posted October 28, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2019 it's not the turnovers as much as is it the types of turnovers. That 2nd and 24, down 7 in the 4th - was a horrible throw - he made a bunch of them in the NE game. If he's going to keep just throwing the ball in the air, with no one open - then he's nothing more than a back-up in this league. If he can get that under control I still believe he's a FQB. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico002 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 You're going to lead the league in INTs after a once in a lifetime abysmal performance that was Monday night. Before the Dallas game, he had the longest active streak in the NFL for completions without a pick. I loved the way he responded on that first drive, and how he got the team back in the game in the fourth. Unfortunately Robby got held on the late deep ball, which was a great throw- that play could have catapulted the entire season forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Stark said: pre-Gase, Sam was promising. With Gase Sam is not promising. The facts are that this team is pretty much the same team as last year + Lev Bell and Crowder on offense and we look worse. Yes Beachum is hurt but the offense has looked the same all year. So, to be clear, as long as Adam Gase is here, your opinion of Darnold is unwavering, and, it would seem, predominantly based on 3 games last year? Put another way, there is nothing that can move you from the “ruined” category? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohhthepain Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 As you said, he get a pass until Gase is gone, the line is fixed, and we have NFL caliber WRs. I would put the most importance on the Oline though. He has all the fu**ing tools physically and mentally. The Jets in their infinite wisdom are doing everything in their power to fu*k him up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetstream23 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I can’t put a number on it....like “8 turnovers in two weeks,” but I think it’s one of those things where you know it when you see it. IF he was playing bad while in a clean pocket. If he was missing open WRs. If he wasn’t going through his progressions while not under duress, I’d really start to worry. THAT would be regression. If I watch last year’s Indy, Denver, Packers games and this year’s Dallas game I see 4 games that were lead by a guy who jumps off the screen as a franchise QB. And this is with a pretty damn poor supporting cast. I’m clearly in the camp that thinks this kid has “it.” What he doesn’t have is anything else around him, and it’s hard to develop like that. He’s played 17 NFL games. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico002 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, Stark said: pre-Gase, Sam was promising. With Gase Sam is not promising. The facts are that this team is pretty much the same team as last year + Lev Bell and Crowder on offense and we look worse. Yes Beachum is hurt but the offense has looked the same all year. That’s an insane take. He’s played 4 games 1. vs the #2 defense in the NFL with mono, he was better than Essentially any QB has been vs that D this year 2. he played his best game ever against Dallas- after the offense literally couldn’t gain a first down without him 3. he has the worst game of his career against the best defense ever through 8 games 4. he has a mediocre game against a tough jags defense that shut down deshaun Watson. Led two gutsy drives and was literally inches away from a 99 yard TD that would have blown the doors of the jags how about we let Sam play a little bit more before casting unfair judgment one way or the other? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I don't know if he is or isn't yet. Hot take or cold take, I think either side stating a definitive answer is doing so with insufficient data. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: If next year he has clean pockets and is still throwing more INTs then TDs... Until he has a decent OL, how can you really judge.... Is it concerning to you that some of his biggest mistakes yesterday came when he wasn’t under pressure? INT1: Under pressure, escapes, the correct play is to throw the ball away here, but he throws and awful pass to a covered WR. INT2: No pressure, throws a terribly off target deep pass. INT3: No pressure, throws to a well covered WR. Bonus: No pressure on the 4th down throw where he misses a wide open WR on a pitch-and-catch out. Turnover on downs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, nico002 said: You're going to lead the league in INTs after a once in a lifetime abysmal performance that was Monday night. Before the Dallas game, he had the longest active streak in the NFL for completions without a pick. I loved the way he responded on that first drive, and how he got the team back in the game in the fourth. Unfortunately Robby got held on the late deep ball, which was a great throw- that play could have catapulted the entire season forward. His “once in a lifetime” abysmal performance included one more INT than he threw the following week. Also, he played in 3 less games... as mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy2020 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, The Voice of Reason said: If next year he has clean pockets and is still throwing more INTs then TDs... Until he has a decent OL, how can you really judge.... Yea, geno didn't have receivers and people are still trying to judge him. The truth is we won't know about either of these guys unless they get great players around them. The idea that he can't be judged until xxxx is a fallacy because the "conditions" to judge him are not going to exist. The bottom line is he has to perform with what he's got. It may not be his fault( F*ck You Gase), but that's the reality of the NFL. You have to perform with what you got. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bealeb319 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Seeing darnold play bad behind a decent offensive line would change my opinion. Coming our of college one of his concerns were turnovers, him turning the ball over some as he grows is to be expected. Him turning the ball over when he has little time to make a play does not worry me. I know some would say he should throw the ball away but he can not do that when he is under pressure on every single play. He literally has to throw the ball for our team to have a chance to win. Darnolds bad play is not all on him obviously and yes he has made some poor decisions but when the offensive line has given up any qb will struggle period.Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 My opinion on Darnold hasn’t changed. A prospect with a lot of promise that we really don’t know much about. This team is derelict in putting him in a situation to be sufficiently-evaluated, much less succeed. All I really can say about him at this moment is that he is somewhere between Geno and Mahomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 21 minutes ago, TeddEY said: The Hot Take Factories have been running overtime. My question is, if, at this point in his career, you still view Sam Darnold as unquestionably the answer at QB, what could change that? Seems to me, that right now, that opinion is pretty solidified, and Sam is great but is unable to play great because of the line, the WRs, and Gase. So, is there anything that can change that for you in Sam’s play, or does he get a pass until Gase is gone, the line is fixed, and we have better WRs? For context, he has 8 turnovers in 2 weeks, and has the 3rd most INTs despite missing 3 games, as well as the league leading INT% by a meaningful margin. So, again, anything that would make you change your opinion from “he’s being ruined,” to “he’s just not good?” How long did it take with Pennington? There's still people who think he's elite if not for (insert favorite penningtologist excuse here) As for my answer, for context ,I have been a Darnold doubter since day 1. The QBase was poor, he took a downturn in year 2, turned the ball over too much and just wasnt a clean prospect in terms of a sufficient history of efficiently running an offense on schedule. I agree he flashes some great sand lot ability so I see why people are excited, but he also has a lot of the same issues that have been evident for 3 years now. The reality is that he's not a Manning type prospect who lived football for most of his life and would've been good anywhere he went, so I think being inserted into this mess here is hurting his development in tangible ways. The question is how much and for how long? Like everything, I don't think it's a black and white issue. Moreso than with the noodle arm, who had a strong team around him, I can understand the narrative that the Jets are killing Darnold's potential but also I think there's something to be said for the idea that if he was ever going to be great he should be able to weather a bad start to his career. Maybe I'm punting on the question a bit but I don't think it's an easy question to answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 As long as he doesn't get miss games to something silly like mono or starts seeing ghosts I'll stick with him. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico002 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, TeddEY said: His “once in a lifetime” abysmal performance included one more INT than he threw the following week. Also, he played in 3 less games... as mentioned. Yes 3 less games against trash defenses to pad the stats... like every other QB this year has had the benefit of doing. Give him a chance to play an even schedule. Any QB would struggle if 3/4 games were against the bills pats and jags on road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Accepting the premise that a guy is a franchise quarterback until he proves that he isn't is the whole problem. I don't really see the point of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawkeyeJet Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, TeddEY said: Is it concerning to you that some of his biggest mistakes yesterday came when he wasn’t under pressure? INT1: Under pressure, escapes, the correct play is to throw the ball away here, but he throws and awful pass to a covered WR. INT2: No pressure, throws a terribly off target deep pass. INT3: No pressure, throws to a well covered WR. Bonus: No pressure on the 4th down throw where he misses a wide open WR on a pitch-and-catch out. Turnover on downs. That is a hell of a presumption that the overall pressure he faces doesn't alter his decision time clock or have him feeling pressure when it's not there. Darnold does take some blame. Obviously. I find it extremely short sighted to say "well he didn't have pressure on this exact pass and threw an INT, that proves he sucks". How many throws has he made in his short career where he does have pressure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZachEY Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, Ohhthepain said: As you said, he get a pass until Gase is gone, the line is fixed, and we have NFL caliber WRs. I would put the most importance on the Oline though. He has all the fu**ing tools physically and mentally. The Jets in their infinite wisdom are doing everything in their power to fu*k him up. Since the process of fixing these things doesn’t begin until year three, you’re also prepared to give him a massive extension while still being given a pass, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomberjet Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Questioning Darnold's ability at this point is so inane it borders on the insanity. There's no clear cut answer to this with first addressing the needs to make him successful. Fix the OL!!! To say that , yeah he also makes bad throws without being under pressure - do you realize that if he's under pressure 80% of the time , he still has that burned into hi thought process when's he's got that ball in his hands? People have an agenda here to blame Darnold because he's not performing like a seasoned veteran. News for everyone : he's not a seasoned veteran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: Yea, geno didn't have receivers and people are still trying to judge him. The truth is we won't know about either of these guys unless they get great players around them. The idea that he can't be judged until xxxx is a fallacy because the "conditions" to judge him are not going to exist. The bottom line is he has to perform with what he's got. It may not be his fault( F*ck You Gase), but that's the reality of the NFL. You have to perform with what you got. Deshaun Watson without OL... Watson with a better line... Just an example... Watson without a line, looks terrible, can't win and throws picks.... now with improved line he looks like an MVP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voice of Reason Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 12 minutes ago, TeddEY said: Is it concerning to you that some of his biggest mistakes yesterday came when he wasn’t under pressure? INT1: Under pressure, escapes, the correct play is to throw the ball away here, but he throws and awful pass to a covered WR. INT2: No pressure, throws a terribly off target deep pass. INT3: No pressure, throws to a well covered WR. Bonus: No pressure on the 4th down throw where he misses a wide open WR on a pitch-and-catch out. Turnover on downs. I get it... he looks terrible... but after being sacked 7 times and running for his life on every other play he starts hearing footsteps... in the beginning of the game he was fine... Immature I agree, but ready to give up? No not yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freestater Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 At least 3 new, NFL caliber OL added to the line, and that's it. If you afford him the protection he needs,a franchise QB elevates the skill players around him. If the line is average to good, we should know who he is. Right now he's being asked to be Barry Sanders and Joe Montana rolled into one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Oh for ****s sake it’s ok to disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 He's the only reason to watch Jet games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baeton Manning Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Maybe we end up in a situation like the Bucs, where Good Jameis and Bad Jameis do battle for the soul of the city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleDown Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I'm giving him the rest of the season. How will he respond to the adversity? He's had two terrible games in a row, but he also had six decent games in a row before that going back to last season. He has shown moments of brilliance, and he's still a relatively inexperienced quarterback. The OL may be the worst line I have seen in my lifetime, and Gase's system is outdated, ineffective, and apparently very rigid. These factors DO make a big difference, and Darnold's head is spinning right now. The great players find a way to overcome the negatives. He needs to slow down, take a deep breath, and stop trying to force things when they simply aren't there. This is a bad team, and unfortunately, he's going to keep taking shots due to the ineptitude of the players in front of him and the inability of Gase to scheme his way to respectability. It's alot of pressure and he's going to have to do it himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTJet Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 "For context" lol If you want to go that route, it's important to include other things "for context" for the sake of argument like... O Line leading the league in sacks (34) and pressures allowed and also on pace to possibly break the all time single season record. If he continues to play bad after even an average O Line improvement, then yes, that would change everyone's mind. But until that point, he is getting David Carr'd right to irrelevance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stark Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 29 minutes ago, TeddEY said: So, to be clear, as long as Adam Gase is here, your opinion of Darnold is unwavering, and, it would seem, predominantly based on 3 games last year? Put another way, there is nothing that can move you from the “ruined” category? I didn't say anything about unwavering.. i said clearly he showed promise end of last year, Gase has it not looking good right now. Am I worried, a little bit. Thats where we are right now. it appears gase is ruining Sam as of today. still more games and i want to see him play well against a decent team not the dolphins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Let’s split up into teams! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UntouchableCrew Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 If he continues to look as bad as he's looked the last two games as we enter the soft part of the schedule I'm going to be extremely concerned. I'm expecting an uptick. We better see some "Cowboysesque" games from him. That said, I've seen enough games where I thought "wow, he looks like a big time QB" that it's tough for me to shake my inherent belief in him, and if ultimately he busts I will more than likely blame the organization for it's failure to support and develop him, which is something at this point they've totally failed at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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