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Leonard Williams traded to the Giants


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21 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Sure, but Leo was supposed to be as bust-proof as they come. Just kind funny/sad.

Still, this was 100% the right move, and I'm glad that Douglas had the wherewithal to set it up and pull the trigger, and I'm really glad that Gettleman was dumb enough to accept it.

Good trade. Bad situation.

/shrugs

Eh, think we’ve learned over the years it’s that no one is bust proof.  
Besides that was Reported  by others, most thought he would be good.  

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56 minutes ago, Dcat said:

It's a very good trade because of Leo's lack of production.

I would counter that we do not know if it is a good trade until:

1. We see who Douglas selects with his 3rd and 5th round picks.

2. We see how Leo performs for the Giants and if he resigns and for how much.

3. How much it will cost us to replace him, if anything, with new talent.

It was likely the only offer we were going to get, so on that front, it's fine.  Seems clear we were not resigning him.

56 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Crying about drafting him at #6 in the first place belongs in other threads.  Did you miss the plethora of those threads?  I guess you can make up for lost time in those threads right here.

Nope.  The forum has made it clear that the cost to acquire the traded asset is irrelevant to the trade, so ok, it's irrelevant.

 

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1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Tanking accomplishes nothing.  I'm rooting for us to win every game and all real jet fans should too.

It's not about this year anymore.  I want the Jets to protect Sam and show some promise.  I don't really see value in wins anymore at this point.

This team needs a high draft slot and then they need to trade down from it.  Of the 22 starters on O and D, the Jets need AT LEAST 13 new ones.  They also need to improve depth with something like 15 additional guys on the bottom half of the roster.

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48 minutes ago, Bomberjet said:

That may be true and in retrospect Williams  may have underachieved based on his draft position, but giving him away for a 3 and 5 - look at what the Jets have done with those picks in the past. 

It's not like he has under-performed in the fashion of a Blair Thomas or a  Gholston or a Richardson. He was a viable starting D Lineman. And only 25 years of age, to boot.

No question the Giants got the better deal.

Why do I give a **** how old he is?  He is not under contract for 2020.  He was already making $14.2M per.  Do you want to sign him as a free agent?  Guess what, you can still do that.  They just traded away 9 games of Leonard Williams for a 3rd and a 5th.  I'm glad he is young, but I don't really give a ****.  BTW, it's Robertson.  If you want to make fun of @bitonti you have to get the name right.

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22 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

Sure, but Leo was supposed to be as bust-proof as they come. Just kind funny/sad.

Still, this was 100% the right move, and I'm glad that Douglas had the wherewithal to set it up and pull the trigger, and I'm really glad that Gettleman was dumb enough to accept it.

Good trade. Bad situation.

/shrugs

Beasley was as bust-proof as they come and it still happened. Draft takes are generally moronic because things that come down to percentage points either way are discussed as though they're black and white.

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44 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

"No question"?  Did you miss the part where literally 30 other GM's in the NFL said "no thanks" when it came to Leo?

You do realize the Giants likely could  have picked him up in free agency without giving up a pick, don't you?

You weren't talking to me here but...

You've got to stop with this new angle where Connor Hughes, who didn't have a clue this trade was happening, suddenly tweeting that nobody else was offering anything is fact. Most likely someone in the Jets office fed him that, or he's talking out of his a**.

The odds that Connor Hughes is plugged in league wide when it comes to what other GMs are doing are slim to none, and you biting hook line and sinker on what this shill is selling isn't a good look for you.

The other thing you've got to stop is the "they could've got him in FA thing." The Jets are basically paying his salary for the rest of this year. That means the Giants are getting a free look, and if they decide he isn't a fit, they get a 3rd comp right back, so worst case it costs them a future 5th (which is basically a 6th, blah blah) to find out about him in their scheme. If they resign him, they know they have a 25 year old starter on their DL for years to come.

Nobody is saying the Jets got fleeced here. What people are saying is its not the time to be celebrating. Holding on to one of our biggest trade assets until it's value was at it's lowest doesn't mean Douglas made a great trade because he got something back at the last minute. Now if he turns around and gets a solid starter with that 3rd pick, then he's done well here.

Until then, the Giants didn't get fleeced here, They're the ones with the proven NFL commodity, and for a  no risk 3rd rounder and a 5th, Leo is certainly worth the look. 

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6 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

You bought a stock for $10. It is now worth $2. You get an offer to sell it for $5. You pass. Am I getting this right? Who helps you tie your shoes?

No, you're not getting it right.

I buy a stock for $1,000.

It is now worth $50.

I get an offer to sell it for $200.  I take that offer in a heartbeat.

I do NOT then get on a forum about stock trading and gloat about WHAT A GREAT TRADE I MADE, MY NEW STOCK BROKER IS A GENIUS .

If you don't understand the difference between what you said, and what I said.....let me simplify:

Little Trade good.  Big Situation bad.

I hope even you get that.

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13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I would counter that we do not know if it is a good trade until:

1. We see who Douglas selects with his 3rd and 5th round picks.

2. We see how Leo performs for the Giants and if he resigns and for how much.

3. How much it will cost us to replace him, if anything, with new talent.

It was likely the only offer we were going to get, so on that front, it's fine.  Seems clear we were not resigning him.

Nope.  The forum has made it clear that the cost to acquire the traded asset is irrelevant to the trade, so ok, it's irrelevant.

 

I disagree with you on every point, above. 

1. The receipt of 3rd and 4th/5th is the value.  It's up to the Jets to draft well.  But the trade itself is what gives the Jets the opportunity.  Whether or not Douglas sh*ts the bed with the picks, that's another issue.  Look at the trade on its own merits.  

2. Only relevant as far as whether we get the 2021 4th or 5th.  Completely irrelevant in every other respect.  

3. I think we already have our run stuffers. We drafted Q.  We already know the cost.

And the cost to acquire Leo back in 2015 has nothing to do with the value of this trade.  You are reaching.  Just stop.  Or start making sense.

 

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Just now, Warfish said:

No, you're not getting it right.

I buy a stock for $1,000.

It is not worth $50.

I get an offer to sell it for $200.  I take that offer.

I do not then get on a forum about stock trading and gloat about WHAT A GREAT TRADE I MADE, MY NEW STOCK BROKER IS A GENIUS .

If you don't understand the difference between what you said, and what I said.....let me simplify:

Little Trade good.  Big Situation bad.

I hope even you get that.

Except that's not what you've been saying this entire time.

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6 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

You bought a stock for $10. It is now worth $2. You get an offer to sell it for $5. You pass. Am I getting this right? Who helps you tie your shoes?

exactly.  He's just arguing to hear his w\own voice in this thread.  I recognize it, because I've done it too.  

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59 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This eliminates every player drafted in 2015 draft class.  Nice work by Maccagnan.   

Wow, I didn't even think about this, but that means literally not one single pick from the draft was deemed worthy to play out their entire rookie contract here, with Petty being the only other one who even broke the 2-year mark.  Holy crap is that pathetic.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I would counter that we do not know if it is a good trade until:

1. We see who Douglas selects with his 3rd and 5th round picks.

2. We see how Leo performs for the Giants and if he resigns and for how much.

3. How much it will cost us to replace him, if anything, with new talent.

It was likely the only offer we were going to get, so on that front, it's fine.  Seems clear we were not resigning him.

 

 

No idea about #1 or #2 yet, but #3 is the real Cost-Benefit analysis that will take place.  The Jets have the following personnel in place on the D-Line...

1. High draft pick Quinnen Williams - Have to hope he becomes a better version of Leo at both DT and DE in hybrid schemes.

2. Recently resigned (for 2020) Steve McClendon - Good veteran presence who needs to be replaced in the coming years with a late round, big-bodied NT.

3. Henry Anderson - Extended last year and onboard for a couple more seasons.  Good starter at 3-4 DE.

4. Phillips, Fatukasi, etc. are looking like decent depth guys.  We've had some pleasant surprises with the depth on the DLine with our 5, 6, 7 type guys.

 

All of the above is to say that the Jets are seemingly well-prepared to sustain the loss of Leo.  I'm glad they got something of value for him.  They weren't bringing him back I think even if he was a "relatively cheap" $10-12M per year or so.  The key will be what you stated in #1.....What do the Jets do with that 3rd and 5th?  Can we turn one into a starting Center or OG?  Can the other become a NT or a #4 WR type?  TBD.

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15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I would counter that we do not know if it is a good trade until:

1. We see who Douglas selects with his 3rd and 5th round picks.

2. We see how Leo performs for the Giants and if he resigns and for how much.

3. How much it will cost us to replace him, if anything, with new talent.

It was likely the only offer we were going to get, so on that front, it's fine.  Seems clear we were not resigning him.

Nope.  The forum has made it clear that the cost to acquire the traded asset is irrelevant to the trade, so ok, it's irrelevant.

 

Well obviously now we need a new DL in the first round...

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14 minutes ago, Dcat said:

I disagree woth you on every point, above.

That's ok, we agree to disagree then. 

If we take your evaluation method, then any compensation makes this a great trade.  When the costs before don't matter, and the player assets gained and performance after don't matter, there is literally no way to have a bad deal under such kind evaluation criteria.  If we got a 7th round conditional pick, your logic would still find it a great trade.  

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That's ok, we agree to disagree then. 

If we take your evaluation method, then any compensation makes this a great trade.  When the costs before don't matter, and the player assets gained don't matter, there is literally no way to have a bad deal under such kind evaluation criteria.  If we got a 7th round conditional pick, your logic would still find it a great trade.  

 

 

Some people just can’t criticize anything the team does until the decisionmaker is drummed out of town. Then they jump on the train and act like they’ve always been there.

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FYI - That 3rd round pick is currently the #6 pick in the Round.  That's a good spot and will be much better than the Compensatory pick (which comes at the end of Round 3) would have been, assuming the Jets would have even gotten a Comp pick following what happens in FA next year.

An early 3rd is a good spot to find a starting Center or OG possibly.  If that's what Leo turns into and the Jets didn't have to pay him a $70M contract....then I'm good with that.

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12 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Except that's not what you've been saying this entire time.

Sure it is.  Let me remind you of my first post in the thread:

Quote

 

Suck what? 

We just traded a #6 overall pick for a middling 3rd and a maybe 4th/5th some day.  And we're paying most of his salary.

There is nothing here to gloat or brag about.  A 3rd is what we'd expect as a baseline for a guy who performs to Leo's level.  We didn't fleece anyone here.  Looks like a fair deal for fair compensation.

 

A fair trade IMO.  Nothing to gloat or brag over.

I've been consistent all along.  I would have made this trade.  I would not have bragged about it.  

But as I said with Dcat, agree to disagree.  If you think we fleeced the Giants, or this is such a great trade that it's worthy of bravado by Jets Fans, great.  By all means, carry on.

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5 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Until then, the Giants didn't get fleeced here, They're the ones with the proven NFL commodity, and for a  no risk 3rd rounder and a 5th, Leo is certainly worth the look. 

People aren't chattel anymore. You don't trade players, you trade contracts. Yes, Williams is a proven NFL commodity, but all the Giants acquired was the exclusive rights to his services for the next eight games and to apply the franchise tag to get another season at like 15M. I don't know that they can feasibly tag him so there probably isn't anything stopping the Jets from signing him in the offseason like the Yankees did Chapman after trading him for Torres, assuming they were so inclined. This is something for very very close to nothing.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol so he just made it up?  

LOL right back. Use your head. Think about this for just a minute.

How do you think the guy who didn't have a clue the trade was coming down, found out what every other GM did or didn't offer, 20 minutes after the trade was announced?

I'll go with the answer I gave. Some lackey in the Jets FO fed him a line, and he went with it to look relevant.

There is no other possible explanation, except for one other, which is far less likely, that he made it up. But not as much as believing Hughes actually knew what offers other GMs made or didn't make.

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2 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

People aren't chattel anymore. You don't trade players, you trade contracts. Yes, Williams is a proven NFL commodity, but all the Giants acquired was the exclusive rights to his services for the next eight games and to apply the franchise tag to get another season at like 15M. I don't know that they can feasibly tag him so there probably isn't anything stopping the Jets from signing him in the offseason like the Yankees did Chapman after trading him for Torres, assuming they were so inclined. This is something for very very close to nothing.

This would be brilliant and devious... who do you think we are, the Patriots?

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15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No, you're not getting it right.

I buy a stock for $1,000.

It is now worth $50.

I get an offer to sell it for $200.  I take that offer in a heartbeat.

I do NOT then get on a forum about stock trading and gloat about WHAT A GREAT TRADE I MADE, MY NEW STOCK BROKER IS A GENIUS .

If you don't understand the difference between what you said, and what I said.....let me simplify:

Little Trade good.  Big Situation bad.

I hope even you get that.

Makes sense but you wouldn't you be happier knowing that you sold it for $200 before its worth zero?

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20 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No, you're not getting it right.

I buy a stock for $1,000.

It is now worth $50.

I get an offer to sell it for $200.  I take that offer in a heartbeat.

I do NOT then get on a forum about stock trading and gloat about WHAT A GREAT TRADE I MADE, MY NEW STOCK BROKER IS A GENIUS .

If you don't understand the difference between what you said, and what I said.....let me simplify:

Little Trade good.  Big Situation bad.

I hope even you get that.

If you possess something worth $50 and sell it for $200, you are in fact a genius negotiator.

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16 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

People aren't chattel anymore. You don't trade players, you trade contracts. Yes, Williams is a proven NFL commodity, but all the Giants acquired was the exclusive rights to his services for the next eight games and to apply the franchise tag to get another season at like 15M. I don't know that they can feasibly tag him so there probably isn't anything stopping the Jets from signing him in the offseason like the Yankees did Chapman after trading him for Torres, assuming they were so inclined. This is something for very very close to nothing.

I agree, the Jets got something for nothing here (they weren't resigning Leo), and the high 3rd round pick is nothing to sneeze at.

What I don't agree with is the idea the Giants got fleeced here.

I think both sides got a fair deal.

 

 

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

If you possess something worth $50 and sell it for $200, you are in fact a genius negotiator.

I agree.

Until/unless the $50 thing you traded away suddenly plays like a $800 thing.

And the $200 you got is traded for $100,000,000,000,000 in currency from Zimbabwe.

But as folks have said, to them, these after effects do not matter, in the same way the costs before hand do not matter.

So yes, as they see it, it's a great trade.  So cool.

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

If you want to spank the monkey over a 3rd round pick for a #6 pick player, be my guest.  It's amazing watching you people try and shine sh*t and call it gold.

Let me put this into perspective for you:  We just traded Leo, a #6 pick and "best player in the draft" i.e. another failed Jets DLineman.....for the equivalent of an ArDarius Stewart and a Chad Hanson to be named later.

Better than nothing, not nearly as good as having picked a guy who didn't suck in the first place.  Sure, be glad we got something, but gloating over this is like gloating at making a tackle when down 42-3.  

No is disputing that Leo was a wasted #3 pick and a huge indictment of the incompetence of Maccagnan.  However, we are 3 years down the road with a mediocre DT making an occasional tackle and being far outperformed by Kyle Phillips, an undrafted rookie FA.   The reality is he is not the dominant superstar that we all dreamed of when was drafted, he is just that mediocre DT.   Getting a 3rd and 5th is a pretty good deal for the player he is now and the only reason we got that much is precisely because he was the #6 pick and the Giants feel that they know something the Jets don't.  

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5 minutes ago, Green DNA said:

No is disputing that Leo was a wasted #3 pick and a huge indictment of the incompetence of Maccagnan.  However, we are 3 years down the road with a mediocre DT making an occasional tackle and being far outperformed by Kyle Phillips, an undrafted rookie FA.   The reality is he is not the dominant superstar that we all dreamed of when was drafted, he is just that mediocre DT.   

Agreed.

Quote

Getting a 3rd and 5th is a pretty good deal for the player he is now and the only reason we got that much is precisely because he was the #6 pick and the Giants feel that they know something the Jets don't.  

It is......if, like I said, he continues to play as poorly as he played here, and if we get something out of those picks we got.  

If Leo pulls an Abraham, or a Farrior, and goes on to a long a productive career for the Giants, and we, in turn, pick Chad Hanson II and ArDarius Stewart II, then I'm sorry, it would be very hard to see this as a "good trade".

We'll see.  Time and perspective will tell the tale.

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