Leonard Williams traded to the Giants

[slimjasi]

Are the Giants really interested in resigning this guy? I would think he'd have to have some significant production over the remainder of the season to warrant a new contract. 

[Embrace the Suck]

5 hours ago, Mo Lew said:

What if Leo gets 3 sacks next game? 

He'll get paid then disappear. He learned from Mo Wilk.

[Barton]

A 3rd this year will likely be a top 75 pick. Nice job, Joe D. 

[jetstream23]

39 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Winning means something, having players like Sam and Adams get that winning feeling back is much more important than draft position.  If we win a bunch and get to 7-9 it will help us much more than another crapshoot in the top 3 of the draft.  

I don't totally disagree with you.  I can't help myself but to root FOR the Jets.....but they need so much more talent added to this team.  Getting a Top 5 picks and trading down to accumulate more is something this team could really use.

[Viermoo]

4 hours ago, GumboBoat said:

How Jet like would it be for him to have multiple sacks against the Jets in a few weeks.

Now let's dump Anderson and get some real WR's on this team.

 

How do we even know Anderson is a bad receiver? He hasn’t had anyone good throwing to him. 

[slimjasi]

55 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I think Sheldon was a better player than Leonard Williams.

He was definitely more "dominant" and made for impact plays for us than Leo ever did. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

Why are you signaling me when I predicted this trade weeks ago?  Pretty sure I said a 3rd and a 5th right off the bat. 

A 3rd and 5th from a contending team is about 20 draft slots different from a 3rd and 5th (which could escalate to a 4th) from a bad team.  You absolutely did not predict this.  

[T0mShane]

43 minutes ago, Pac said:

and Joe Douglas begged Ryan Kalil for months to take 10 million dollars to come here and be one of the worst centers in the league.  If not THE worst.

All GM's make mistakes.

One of these things is not like the other 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, Viermoo said:

How do we even know Anderson is a bad receiver? He hasn’t had anyone good throwing to him. 

I don’t think they’d be getting rid of Anderson because he’s not talented. I think they’d be getting rid of Anderson because they’re terrified of what he’ll do when he has $30 million guaranteed.

[New York Mick]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, because you can't evaluate a trade based purely on what those picks turn into.  If Douglas drafts poorly, he's a poor drafter.  That doesn't make this a bad trade. 

If you trade a bad player for a 1st rounder, is that ever a bad trade for the team that got the 1st?  No way.  Draft capital is literally the most important factor in building a winner in this league.   

If Douglas sucks at drafting, we're screwed regardless of what we do.  So might as well hope he's good at it  and assume we'll get something decent out of this.  

Yes you can. If you get rid of someone for someone else (draft) and they’re not better it was a bad trade. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

Macc got more for Sheldon who had way more red flags. 

Sheldon was significantly more talented than Leonard Williams.  

FFS the one good move Macc made in his entire career and you praise him endlessly for it without giving a shred of credit to Douglas for today's move.  How do you always, always get things so wrong?

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Yes you can. If you get rid of someone for someone else (draft) and they’re not better it was a bad trade. 

That's now how this works.  We would have had to pay Leonard Williams something like $10-12M per to keep him here.  It's not just the picks, its also the fact that we don't have to spend that money to keep an underwhelming DT here.  We also didn't let him walk for nothing.  

Was your preference to re-sign him, let him walk for nothing, or trade him for as much as we could get?  Because those were our only 3 choices here.  

[New York Mick]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

That's now how this works.  We would have had to pay Leonard Williams something like $10-12M to keep him here.  It's not just the picks, its also clearing up some potential costs.  

Was your preference to re-sign him, let him walk for nothing, or trade him for as much as we could get?  

That’s how it works as far as I’m concerned. They either play better or they don’t. If the team is worse because of it it was a bad trade. If they draft a starting OL or WR then it was a good trade. I agree with the trade it was smart but we don’t know if it’s good or not. 

[Spoot-Face]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Eh, think we’ve learned over the years it’s that no one is bust proof.  
Besides that was Reported  by others, most thought he would be good.  

Either way, that pick ended up being a kick to the collective nuts/ladynuts to the franchise and fanbase, and while we can be grateful to JD for icing our balls/ladyballs for us, we can still acknowledge that they're pretty sore.

Goddamn Macc.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, New York Mick said:

That’s how it works as far as I’m concerned. They either play better or they don’t. If the team is worse because of it it was a bad trade. If they draft a starting OL or WR then it was a good trade. I agree with the trade it was smart but we don’t know if it’s good or not. 

So basically you're saying "What I say goes and I stubbornly refuse to listen to any good points."

That's pretty much been your MO lately.  Tell us again why Josh Allen would have been a bad pick at 3 also no matter how many sacks and QB hits he racks up.  That's a fun one.  

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, New York Mick said:

That’s how it works as far as I’m concerned. They either play better or they don’t. If the team is worse because of it it was a bad trade. If they draft a starting OL or WR then it was a good trade. I agree with the trade it was smart but we don’t know if it’s good or not. 

If you trade 1999 Kurt Warner for a sixth round pick and that pick turns out to be Tom Brady, that makes the trade good.

You cannot make this ******* sh*t up.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So basically you're saying "What I say goes and I stubbornly refuse to listen to any good points."

So basically you're saying you still don't know what 'proved wrong' means on the internet.

[New York Mick]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So basically you're saying "What I say goes and I stubbornly refuse to listen to any good points."

That's pretty much been your MO lately.  Tell us again why Josh Allen would have been a bad pick at 3 also no matter how many sacks and QB hits he racks up.  That's a fun one.  

He wouldn’t of been a bad pick but he wouldn’t of been a smart pick. They should of went offense. They definitely shouldn’t of drafted another DT.  He’s also overrated on this board. He’s a good situational passrusher but that’s it, he disappears in games and a good team will nullify him. 
 

What else you got? 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, New York Mick said:

He wouldn’t of been a bad pick but he wouldn’t of been a smart pick. 

Yes because this makes perfect sense.  

[New York Mick]

4 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

If you trade 1999 Kurt Warner for a sixth round pick and that pick turns out to be Tom Brady, that makes the trade good.

You cannot make this ******* sh*t up.

That would be an amazing trade. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, New York Mick said:

He wouldn’t of been a bad pick but he wouldn’t of been a smart pick. They should of went offense. They definitely shouldn’t of drafted another DT.  He’s also overrated on this board. He’s a good situational passrusher but that’s it, he disappears in games and a good team will nullify him. 
 

What else you got? 

The word 'have'

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, New York Mick said:

That would be an amazing trade. 

Wow.  

[New York Mick]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes because this makes perfect sense.  

It does. 

[LockeJET]

Don't feel like reading back. If they franchise him does it turn into a 4th? Or has to be a new contract?

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Eaton Beaver said:

Now, please do not stalk me, find something more productive to do.

Done.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

It does. 

Not really.  Because you're using those same words for the Leo trade.  It's a smart trade but might be a bad trade.  No, it would only be a bad trade if we'd failed to get the maximum value out of Leo that we could.  

Much in the same way, you're saying Josh Allen wouldn't have been a bad pick but he wouldn't have been the BEST pick at 3.  Perhaps, but that still would have made him a good pick.  A pass rusher is something we've needed for a long time.  Macc's failures to acquire any O-Line of significance would not have made Josh Allen a bad pick.  

Nothing you're saying is really making a lick of sense, but in your mind it makes perfect sense.  You're trying to encompass as many variables into the analysis as possible but that isn't "smart" analysis.  It's very simple.  We got as much as we could out of Leo, whose contract was set to expire.  That makes it a good trade.  Period.  We don't have to wait until next April to evaluate it.  

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

So people should be pleased with the move, but only the exact amount of pleased you deem permissible to have?  Seems reasonable.

Obviously.  

Or you can be a braggart, if you prefer.  Up to you, really.

1 hour ago, Bleedin Green said:

Of course, none of the so-called "bragging" is being done by Douglas nor anyone else involved with the Jets, but let's not have that reality get in the way of anything.

Now was my response aimed at Douglas or the Jets.  

[New York Mick]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Not really.  Because you're using those same words for the Leo trade.  It's a smart trade but might be a bad trade.  No, it would only be a bad trade if we'd failed to get the maximum value out of Leo that we could.  

Much in the same way, you're saying Josh Allen wouldn't have been a bad pick but he wouldn't have been the BEST pick at 3.  Perhaps, but that still would have made him a good pick.  A pass rusher is something we've needed for a long time.  Macc's failures to acquire any O-Line of significance would not have made Josh Allen a bad pick.  

Nothing you're saying is really making a lick of sense, but in your mind it makes perfect sense.

I said before the draft the oline was awful (I also said the same thing about Gase and the hobbit) and it needed to be fixed or it could ruin Darnold and they should only draft oline or at least offensive players to help Darnold. 
What did they do? They drafted a DT and a awful OLB. 
Even if they drafted Allen who is obviously much better then Q it wouldn’t of helped this team or Darnold. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

It’s not that people don’t understand that. It’s that the bad thing has already happened and isn’t changing.  This is lemonade out of lemons.  No reason you can’t be happy with that.

I am happy with that.  But no one read that part.  They were too busy being mad I didn't call the the trade of the century, and didn't buy in on the "past and future don't matter in trades" theorem.

It's all good, I learned alot today.  Some things are informative.

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

I think you’re exaggerating the gloating/bragging/dick waving.

Maybe.  Didn't seem so when I made my first post.  But you could be right.

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

We made a good trade today.  It’s a shame that it was a good trade, but it was.  So, I am happy about that.

Nope, nothing shameful about the trade itself.  You're right, we should all be happy.  It's literally the best thing that this franchise has done in 2019, on the field or off.  Enjoy the moment.  

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Good move, a deal that should have been done the second after the #3 card was turned in, such a waste of potential...  bowles really let him down

[Spoot-Face]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I would counter that we do not know if it is a good trade until:

Here is where I disagree with you.

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

1. We see who Douglas selects with his 3rd and 5th round picks.

No, because his drafting ability is a separate issue. Just giving us a chance to draft some players who can help out this team is a net positive. The simple fact is that Leonard Williams was not going to help this team moving forward. His leaving was a forgone conclusion. These two picks have a greater chance of positively impacting the team simply because we have them.

 

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

2. We see how Leo performs for the Giants and if he resigns and for how much.

No. Hypothetically, let's say Leo has a comeback year next with 10 sacks. What makes you think he'd have that same amount of production with us in 2020? What evidence is there that you've seen this year? Perhaps a change of scenery and lowered expectation will be good for him, but I think it's pretty clear he's done here. This season was supposed to be his "prove-me" year, and all he's proved was that he hasn't earned an extension. Period.

Unless, of course, you think the problem here is coaching, which in that case we'd have to fire Gregg Williams at the end of the season along with extending Leo. Or, let's say the problem is he's playing with inferior talent, in which case we'd have to invest yet another high-round pick into the D-line along with extending Leo.

But, neither of those things were going to, or should, happen, and any expectation that Leo was finally going to turn into the player we thought we drafted, as a New York Jet, was dead in the water. I don't care what he does or how much for he signs with another team. If he has a career year for the Giants, all it will prove is that he we've done a colossal failure of a job at putting him in position to succeed here, and I don't think there's any reason to believe that would change any time soon.

 

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

3. How much it will cost us to replace him, if anything, with new talent.

We already have. Literally any linemen on the roster at this point will match his production.

 

Other than all that, I agree with you that it's mighty sh*tty that the initial cost to draft Leo in the first place was so high, and we now have to give him away for less than half of what that was worth.

I'll clarify, though, that this is not a criticism of JD and the trade (which some people can't seem to understand). This was a good move for JD. A victory. Only because he doesn't have any ownership of the initial failure that turned out to be drafting Leo Williams at #6 overall.

But, it's 100% bad for the fanbase to constantly have to watch their team draft high and sell low. That is precisely why this team is in such a bad place right now. I feel like this has been your point all along that's been, weirdly, lost on folks in this thread.

[phill1c]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Suck it, Joe Douglas haters.  

There are Joe Douglas "haters"?!

You people live on hate...

[Spoot-Face]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

what would have gotten, two ones and a second? 

He would've been happy just with getting Macc back.

[Larz]

So since quinnen sucks does this mean we are drafting dline in the 1st round next year ?