Leonard Williams traded to the Giants

[14 in Green]

45 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Look Gettleman isn’t a bad talent evaluator. And Leo isn’t a bad player. He isn’t a sack guy but he can be a key guy and contributor. They played him more over Quinnen. 

Exactly, and getting Leo for a third and a future 4th isn't a bad deal at all. They pair him with Lawrence, who can actually play, and you have the base of a young talented DL for years to come.

On our side of it, we've traded a 6th pick in the draft. Were basically paying the rest of his salary this year, and we're hoping to get back someone who contributes as a 3rd rd player, and a future 4th which is basically something you hope turns into depth somewhere down the road.

To me, this was a no brainer for the Giants, and a case where we waited to long to unload a player we didn't plan on keeping. If Douglas had made this deal in June, I think he gets more back, so lets not get starry eyed about getting minimum comp back, and paying the other team $6 million to do it.

[Jet Nut]

26 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I came here to talk about the trade.

You, as usual, came here to talk about me.  

I don’t ever come here to talk about anyone.  

But just like the way you have not a clue about being a fan or that, yes trading a useless player who was going to be allowed to walk doesn’t need justification 3 years down the road, you have no idea this internet thing works.  Post and people may respond.  Like plenty of others have to you
Have an opinion today.  Isn’t hard to have an opinion after the fact

[#27TheDominator]

23 minutes ago, CTJetsFan said:

Shell was a 5th rounder Was a serviceable RT prior to this season

You're talking to the wrong guy.  I have never liked Shell at all. 

[choon328]

 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, 14 in Green said:

To me, this was a no brainer for the Giants

You're 2-6.  Your WR's are an aging Golden Tate and seemingly always injured/disappointing Sterling Shepard.  You're trotting out the worst LT in the league in Nate Solder to protect your franchise QB.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Giants fan.  Are you really happy reading that you gave up precious draft capital on a DT who can't pass rush and had 0 chance of getting a 2nd contract with the team that drafted him?  Especially when that DT was headed for free agency and possibly could have been had without giving up any picks at all?

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, choon328 said:

 

 

LOL

@Pac @Pac @Pac

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

I don’t ever come here to talk about anyone.  

But just like the way you have not a clue about being a fan or that, yes trading a useless player who was going to be allowed to walk doesn’t need justification 3 years down the road, you have no idea this internet thing works.  Post and people may respond.  
Grow a pair for once, you can do it, have an opinion today.  Isn’t hard to have an opinion after the fact

After Hockenson I think we'll happily be spared any more guesses for a while.

[Jetsfan80]

So the Giants could have gotten Leo for a lot less than they gave up OR just signed him in free agency.

Joe Douglas just clowned Dave Gettleman.  Awesome.  

[Ohhthepain]

Leo has to resign or Gettlemen should get his head checked. What's the point of trading a 3rd and a 5th for an underperforming player for a half year rental?

[TheClashFan]

We better hope Leo passes the physical.

 

[bigalbarracuda]

1 minute ago, choon328 said:

 

Best case scenario -- Leo plays well for the rest of the year, stops the runs, decent at getting pressure -- Jets still beat the Giants as Sam improves -- Giants resign Leo and we get a 4th in 2021 on top of the 3rd next year. 

[CTJetsFan]

8 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You're talking to the wrong guy.  I have never liked Shell at all. 

Fair enough. My point was more that you can get starting OTs beyond the 3rd round. I think Warfish made it sound like it wasn't likely. Too lazy to go back and do more draft research

 

Edit - I see you made the same point too re: Fabini. I think we've drafted other starting OTs (not many) mid/late since him.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, choon328 said:

 

Even better. Also somebody managed to get the Johnsons to pony up the 4 large it took to get this done which is pretty encouraging.

[Warfish]

Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

After Hockenson I think we'll happily be spared any more guesses for a while.

Eh.  We'll see who has a better career with more impact, Hockenson or Williams.  QW hasn't exactly set the league on fire so far.

I betcha Darnold wishes he had a healthy Hockenson right now.  

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

6 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You're talking to the wrong guy.  I have never liked Shell at all. 

In general or what we got for what we invested?

[BurnleyJet]

That’s a great deal, very happy with that.

Lets see if he deals anyone else..

[FireTheJohnsons]

19 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Kicker debacle, evidently.

Plus people are hating on him for Matt Kalil even though it wasn't his decision to thrust him out there, nor was it Douglas's decision to be so badly strapped at Center in the first place.  

Ugh, in the grand scheme of things neither of those things matter one bit. I'd like to see how he attacks the draft and FA for one season before hating or loving him.

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Exactly, and getting Leo for a third and a future 4th isn't a bad deal at all. They pair him with Lawrence, who can actually play, and you have the base of a young talented DL for years to come.

On our side of it, we've traded a 6th pick in the draft. Were basically paying the rest of his salary this year, and we're hoping to get back someone who contributes as a 3rd rd player, and a future 4th which is basically something you hope turns into depth somewhere down the road.

To me, this was a no brainer for the Giants, and a case where we waited to long to unload a player we didn't plan on keeping. If Douglas had made this deal in June, I think he gets more back, so lets not get starry eyed about getting minimum comp back, and paying the other team $6 million to do it.

So the Giants don’t need their 3rd?  Because Gettleman knows talent?  
Then he’pay money for a deal with an unproductive DL?  Add him and that’s the base of a young talented DL.  Didn’t work with him and anyone on the DL as proof?

Not getting how this makes a lot of sense.  Overpay for a limited player

[14 in Green]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You're 2-6.  Your WR's are an aging Golden Tate and seemingly always injured/disappointing Sterling Shepard.  You're trotting out the worst LT in the league in Nate Solder to protect your franchise QB.

Put yourself in the shoes of a Giants fan.  Are you really happy reading that you gave up precious draft capital on a DT who can't pass rush and had 0 chance of getting a 2nd contract with the team that drafted him?  Especially when that DT was headed for free agency and possibly could have been had without giving up any picks at all?

Assuming they sign him before he gets to FA, the Giants have a starter on their DL for the next, what? 7 years? 

I'd take that for a 3rd round and a future 4th, plus I got him salary free for half a year while I negotiate the deal.

Now if you can guarantee me we get one solid starter out of these 2 picks, I say we made a fair deal. Until we do that though, advantage Giants for getting a 25 year old who's a proven starter in this league.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Just now, Warfish said:

Eh.  We'll see who has a better career with more impact, Hockenson or Williams.  QW hasn't exactly set the league on fire so far.

I betcha Darnold wishes he had a healthy Hockenson right now.  

After one game: declare victory

After two months: we'll see

This whole thing where we're only supposed to ever talk about anything when the available information aligns with your feelings is incredibly tiresome.

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

If you want to spank the monkey over a 3rd round pick for a #6 pick player, be my guest.  It's amazing watching you people try and shine sh*t and call it gold.

Let me put this into perspective for you:  We just traded Leo, a #6 pick and "best player in the draft" i.e. another failed Jets DLineman.....for the equivalent of an ArDarius Stewart and a Chad Hanson to be named later.

Better than nothing, not nearly as good as having picked a guy who didn't suck in the first place.  Sure, be glad we got something, but gloating over this is like gloating at making a tackle when down 42-3.  

Sunk costs.  You gotta move forward.  Holding out for a first or even a second would get you nothing.  You are crying over spilled milk.

[The Voice of Reason]

DI LEONARD WILLIAMS

Williams earned 75.0-plus overall grades in each of his first four seasons in the NFL, including a 78.2 overall grade across 866 defensive snaps in 2018. His success, however, is rooted in his run defense rather than his pass-rushing ability. It wasn’t until last season that Williams earned a pass-rushing grade above 67.0, and he still earned just a 71.4 pass-rush grade across 541 pass-rushing snaps.

Of course, Williams is still one of the NFL’s dominant run defenders. He ranks inside the top-five in total run stops (97) among all at his position since 2016. He also owns an impressive 82.9 run-defense grade since entering the league in 2016, ranking 21st among the 40 interior defensive linemen with 800 or more run-defense snaps over the past four seasons (2016-19).

Gifting their East Rutherford rivals a third-round pick and conditional fifth-round pick for a run defender on an expiring contract is a bit a rich for PFF’s taste. Williams is a solid player, but he offers little value on passing downs in a league where throwing the ball effectively and stopping the pass is of the most importance.

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-instant-reactions-to-kenyan-drake-leonard-williams-trades

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Assuming they sign him before he gets to FA, the Giants have a starter on their DL for the next, what? 7 years? 

7 years of underwhelming play, I suppose?  Not great for a team that needs WR and OL, not interior DL. 

The Giants are a lot like us.  Would you make this trade in reverse?  Give up a 3rd and 4th/5th for Leo?  After all, we've been getting gashed on defense too.  

 

10 minutes ago, choon328 said:

 

 

^^^  Far from a "no-brainer" for Gettleman and the Giants.  He got schooled.  

[Warfish]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I don’t ever come here to talk about anyone.

And yet 50% of your posts are you obsessing over my posts.  

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

But just like the way you have not a clue about being a fan

I always love it when you tell us only acceptable "right" way to be a fan.  

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

or that, yes trading a useless player who was going to be allowed to walk doesn’t need justification 3 years down the road

As expected, you have no idea what you're talking about because you can't read and understand.

Let me say it slowly for your benefit:  The trade is fine.  Leo not working out is not fine.  The bad (Leo not working out) exceeds the good (the consolation prize of a mid-round pick).  I DO NOT CELEBRATE CONSOLATION PRICES LIKE SOME PATHETIC PAVLOV'S DOG.

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

, you have no idea this internet thing works.  Post and people may respond.

You certainly will, over and over and over, obsessively stalking my every post despite knowing I don;t care what you think and have no desire nor interest in an exchange with you.  

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Have an opinion today.  Isn’t hard to have an opinion after the fact

Yeah, because I'm famous for not having opinions and keeping them till after the fact.  GTFOH.  

[MS jets Fan]

As far as character goes he's been a good presence, but he never really fit the scheme for some reason.   Good luck Leo with the Giants.   Can't really say nothing bad about him.   Just from a logical stand point Joe D needed to get his players in here and get draft picks for that to happen.  

[Untouchable]

4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Assuming they sign him before he gets to FA, the Giants have a starter on their DL for the next, what? 7 years? 

I'd take that for a 3rd round and a future 4th, plus I got him salary free for half a year while I negotiate the deal.

Now if you can guarantee me we get one solid starter out of these 2 picks, I say we made a fair deal. Until we do that though, advantage Giants for getting a 25 year old who's a proven starter in this league.

Great...

A 7 year starter along the DL who will give you 4 sacks a season while being paid $12+ million a year.

Both a 6th rounder from a year ago and a rookie UDFA have been outperforming Leo this season.

He’s easily replaceable.

I’ll take the picks. Especially in what is shaping up to be a deep OL/WR draft class.

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

After one game: declare victory

After two months: we'll see

This whole thing where we're only supposed to ever talk about anything when the available information aligns with your feelings is incredibly tiresome.

You can talk about whatever you like Loneyhearts.  IMO Hockenson has been better than QW so far, albeit Hock got his bell royally rung and has missed time.  QW has been an effective non-entity so far, but we'll see how well he steps up now that Leo is gone.  My waiting is only a benefit to QW, who has failed to live up to his draft position so far.  But I've always said draft picks take > 1 year to evaluate, nothing new there.  

[Dcat]

42 minutes ago, Pac said:

As predicted people acting like the lowest return we should take was some kind of coup lol...  had to be done tho.

"Lowest return"?  LOL.  too funny,  Dude, Jets got way over-value for this JAG.  

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, LockeJET said:

 I know how it works and I know what d lineman get and he would have gotten enough believe it or not to get us the 3rd.

and you also know that Douglas was going to sign fewer UFAs than he would lose?  Wow.  You must be clairvoyant. 

[New York Mick]

Now he’s going to have to relocate  to NJ, oh wait. 
 

@nyjunc 

[Warfish]

5 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Sunk costs.  You gotta move forward.  Holding out for a first or even a second would get you nothing.  You are crying over spilled milk.

No, I'm evaluating the totality of the exchange.  

It's almost like folks don't understand that this could be the best deal we'd get (i.e. a good thing generally) and still represent an overall bad thing in totality (the #6 pick being another in a long line of busts, part of why we're sitting borderline talent-less at 1-6, and a #3 pick being good only if used right).

We'll see who we draft.  Lets hope it's a good one.  And lets hope Leo sucks as a Giant.  

[JustInFudge]

Really didnt see this happening...and it's absolutely pathetic we only got a 3rd and a 5th for the 6th overall pick but that's not Joe Douglas, that's because Leo is a JAG.

At least they got something...

[GumboBoat]

13 minutes ago, Ohhthepain said:

Leo has to resign or Gettlemen should get his head checked. What's the point of trading a 3rd and a 5th for an underperforming player for a half year rental?

I completely agree. I only benefit for the Giants is they can exclusively negotiate with Williams until free agency. I still don't think it's worth a 3 and 5. But what the hell do I know. 

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

So the trade comes with escalators.

We get more picks for every Darnold sack Leo makes in 2 weeks?  Damn.  I wish that meant we were getting something extra.  But... Leo..

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And yet 50% of your posts are you obsessing over my posts.  

I always love it when you tell us only acceptable "right" way to be a fan.  

As expected, you have no idea what you're talking about because you can't read and understand.

Let me say it slowly for your benefit:  The trade is fine.  Leo not working out is not fine.  The bad (Leo not working out) exceeds the good (the consolation prize of a mid-round pick).  I DO NOT CELEBRATE CONSOLATION PRICES LIKE SOME PATHETIC PAVLOV'S DOG.

You certainly will, over and over and over, obsessively stalking my every post despite knowing I don;t care what you think and have no desire nor interest in an exchange with you.  

Yeah, because I'm famous for not having opinions and keeping them till after the fact.  GTFOH.  

You take the time to breakdown my post into you boring usual style, then call me obsessed?  instead of ignoring one or two posts?  I have10,000 posts dealing with you?  Like when you tell people I’m on ignore and you life is better but here we are?  Whined you’re a mod for buttfumbling a dumb post??

Had to respond to someone you claim to proudly ignore?

But I’m obsessed?  GTFOH