Leonard Williams traded to the Giants

[joewilly12]

Good luck Leonard Williams. 

Realistically we can't grade or judge this trade until we see who we pick and how they work out for us. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No, I'm evaluating the totality of the exchange.  

It's almost like folks don't understand that this could be the best deal we'd get (i.e. a good thing generally) and still represent an overall bad thing in totality (the #6 pick being another in a long line of busts, part of why we're sitting borderline talent-less at 1-6, and a #3 pick being good only if used right).

We'll see who we draft.  Lets hope it's a good one.  And lets hope Leo sucks as a Giant.  

You're not evaluating the totality of the exchange. You're conflating what Williams cost with what he's worth. That is multiple exchanges. Should we trade Phillips for a 7th?

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

We get more picks for every Darnold sack Leo makes in 2 weeks?  Damn.  I wish that meant we were getting something extra.  But... Leo..

If he hits him hard at least five times I'd be willing to give the conditional pick back.

[Jet Nut]

14 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

After one game: declare victory

After two months: we'll see

This whole thing where we're only supposed to ever talk about anything when the available information aligns with your feelings is incredibly tiresome.

19 catches

From Stanford and a pass first O
 

 

 

[Warfish]

Just now, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

You're not evaluating the totality of the exchange. You're conflating what Williams cost with what he's worth. That is multiple exchanges. Should we trade Phillips for a 7th?

And you (and many) are completely ignoring that cost like it's meaningless. 

In which case ANY trade for ANY player at ANY value can be spun as "good", if you ignore their cost to acquire and the cost to replace.  

If you're happy, great, be happy.  

[JoJoTownsell1]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No, I'm evaluating the totality of the exchange.  

It's almost like folks don't understand that this could be the best deal we'd get (i.e. a good thing generally) and still represent an overall bad thing in totality (the #6 pick being another in a long line of busts, part of why we're sitting borderline talent-less at 1-6, and a #3 pick being good only if used right).

We'll see who we draft.  Lets hope it's a good one.  And lets hope Leo sucks as a Giant.  

Who cares where he was drafted 4 years ago? It is completely meaningless. 

The Bears took Kevin White the pick after Williams. White was let go last year for nothing.

Based on your logic the Bears should have been able to trade him for some picks because he was drafted high in 2015. 

[thebuzzardman]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Solid return for an underperforming player. At least Leo won’t have to uproot his whole life. 

That's good. He's probably too lazy to pack up his sh*t. 

[CTM]

3 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And you (and many) are completely ignoring that cost like it's meaningless. 

Because it is meaningless as it pertains to his value on October 28, 2019

Leo was a terrible draft pick and a good trade 

2 separate transactions

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

You're not getting a lynchpin RT with a 3rd round pick.  You're probably not getting a lynchpin Center that late either tbqh.  But it should get us a O-Line prospect, at least, if Douglas is as good a scout as we hear.

Just sad to see how many D Linemen we drafted ultra-high that wound up being nothing for us.  Makes it hard to see Q Williams as anything more than just the next Leo in line for shipping elsewhere or cutting loose.

 

Q Williams most likely will never get a 2nd contract from the Jets.  Meanwhile Josh Allen will be near the top of the league in Sacks for the next decade.  Which is why you don’t draft DTs or Safety’s that high

[#27TheDominator]

10 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

In general or what we got for what we invested?

In general I really don't like him starting.  I guess he is pretty solid for the investment, but I am still not a fan.  Tyreek Hill was picked later in that round - though I  understand why they might not have him on their board.  They had already traded their 5th for Clady, so they had to give up a 2017 4th which ended up being pretty high.  Mack Hollins, Carl Lawson and Tarik Cohen were there.  The Redskins ended up with Perrine.  Of course, I probably would have ended up with Nico Siragusa, so I can't complain much.

[JoJoTownsell1]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

And you (and many) are completely ignoring that cost like it's meaningless. 

In which case ANY trade for ANY player at ANY value can be spun as "good", if you ignore their cost to acquire and the cost to replace.  

If you're happy, great, be happy.  

You are living in the past and worrying about the effects of the 2015 draft. No other team in the NFL cares where we drafted Williams. His value is his value. 

The only think Douglas can is get as much value for him as possible. It seems as though he did a good job. That is all that matters today. 

 

[JimJaime]

1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

A 3rd and future 5th for an expiring player that wasn't going to be resigned?  That is a good haul.

They will probably get a 3rd back if they don’t resign him and end up losing position only in that round the. It’s just a 5th in 2021.. if he does well and they resign him Jets get a 4th in 2021 so let’s hope he is gangbusters and puts up pretty stats so they resign him

[Untouchable]

Just now, Warfish said:

And you (and many) are completely ignoring that cost like it's meaningless. 

In which case ANY trade for ANY player at ANY value can be spun as "good", if you ignore their cost to acquire and the cost to replace.  

If you're happy, great, be happy.  

What was the alternative?

Letting him ride out the last 9 games of a lost season in green & white and then watch as he walks in FA and we get nothing in return?

We were never even going to get a comp pick for Leo unless Douglas decided to just completely sit on his hands in FA, which is pretty much impossible with the holes we have at WR, OL, EDGE and CB.

We can complain about his initial value 5 years ago vs what we got in return for him all day, but it makes no difference.

The Jets got basically the same package for Leo that the Texans got for Clowney. And Clowney was a former #1 overall pick who has shown that he can actually get to the QB.

[rammagen]

I think the other item people are missing is this gives a choice to move it higher in the draft I would prefer to get more picks and hope they find players

[Bomberjet]

I told you people the Jets would get a 3 & a 5 - ?  

everyone here all were crying for just a 4th of 5th, LOL...

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

If you want to spank the monkey over a 3rd round pick for a #6 pick player, be my guest.  It's amazing watching you people try and shine sh*t and call it gold.

Let me put this into perspective for you:  We just traded Leo, a #6 pick and "best player in the draft" i.e. another failed Jets DLineman.....for the equivalent of an ArDarius Stewart and a Chad Hanson to be named later.

Better than nothing, not nearly as good as having picked a guy who didn't suck in the first place.  Sure, be glad we got something, but gloating over this is like gloating at making a tackle when down 42-3.  

You keep harping at the #6 draft spot.  That has nothing to do with the present front office, who did as good a job as they could getting value back for a nearly valueless player.  Whether or not the team itself made him valueless based on the prior administrations actions is wholly irrelevant. 

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, CTM said:

Because it is meaningless as it pertains to his value on October 28, 2019

Ok.  Enjoy the great trade then I guess.

[Jet Life]

1 hour ago, New York Mick said:

How many sacks and tackles will Leo have when the Giants and Jets play?

He can have 10 sacks and it would still be a great trade. He sucked here and that’s all that matters 

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Q Williams most likely will never get a 2nd contract from the Jets.  Meanwhile Josh Allen will be near the top of the league in Sacks for the next decade.  Which is why you don’t draft DTs or Safety’s that high

Doesn't matter apparently.  If QW busts out too, and we trade him for a 3rd, it'll be a great trade.  

[Eaton Beaver]

1 hour ago, Mo Lew said:

What if Leo gets 3 sacks next game? 

If he gets 3 sacks next game after getting 0 with us, it will only prove that he is a bigger piece of sh*t than what I thought of him. He did nothing for this team so who cares what he does now. He is on a contract year and still did nothing, good riddance. Time to send the useless players walking, no matter where they were drafted!!

[Spoot-Face]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

What a pity it got to this point. Consensus BAP for the win!

This is pretty much where I'm at.

I want to celebrate this, but... goddamn. A former #6 overall "best consensus player in teh draft" was just traded for a 3rd and 5th/maybe 4th two drafts later.

It's like buying a top-of-the-line Cessna, having it unexpectedly break down in the middle of a flight over the Pacific, crashing down an a deserted island, and then celebrating when a solitary old man in a row boat happens by to rescue you. I'm mean, sure you're getting rescued... sort of, but now you're gonna have to live with the shame of your colossal mistake.

[Creepy Lurker]

1 minute ago, Spoot-Face said:

This is pretty much where I'm at.

I want to celebrate this as a win, but... goddamn. A former #6 overall "best consensus player in teh draft" was just traded for a 3rd and 5th/maybe 4th two drafts later.

It's like buying a top-of-the-line Cessna, having it unexpectedly break down in the middle of a flight over the Pacific, crashing down an a deserted island, and then celebrating when a solitary old man in a row boat happens by to rescue you. I'm mean, sure you're getting rescued... sort of, but now you're gonna have to live with the shame of your colossal mistake.

Shame? The Jets have no shame. 

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Do whatever you like. 

IMO this is a "meh, ok, least we got something for our failure" moment, not a "WOW DOUGLAS IS SO SMART WE FLEECED THEM VAGIANTS GUD AREN'T WE GREAT" moment.

/shrug, I'll never understand this fanbase.

What don't you get?  Stop pretending to be dense, because you are not.  Douglas did a good job cleaning up a bad mess that he was saddled with.  That's all. Credit where credit is due.  You are just in the mood to criticize Jets fans for being pleased about that aspect of it.  It doesn't excuse the past terrible drafting.  But there is nothing we can do to change the past, so yes... this is a move that is worthy of praise.  IOW, lighten up Francis.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

In general I really don't like him starting.

I don't either but it means nothing in a vacuum. If you can draft a guy in the fifth round and get a tackle who is below average but by no means an Edogaesque turnstile for the entirety of his rookie contract that's unequivocally a win.

[Maxman]

We are where we are right now. Macc is gone, nothing we can do about the past. So this is a good deal, two picks and the Giants 3rd rounder is a decent pick. Grab an offensive lineman and hopefully Douglas hits a lot more than he misses.

[Jet Life]

15 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Good luck Leonard Williams. 

Realistically we can't grade or judge this trade until we see who we pick and how they work out for us. 

No we still can. It’s not in our control if Leo becomes good elsewhere. He sucked here period and the correct move is getting picks back for him because he’s done nothing to warrant a second contact from us 

[MaxAF]

9 minutes ago, thebuzzardman said:

That's good. He's probably too lazy to pack up his sh*t. 

He might be able to keep his locker and not move at all. Or maybe just down the hall. ?

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, Spoot-Face said:

This is pretty much where I'm at.

I want to celebrate this as a win, but... goddamn. A former #6 overall "best consensus player in teh draft" was just traded for a 3rd and 5th/maybe 4th two drafts later.

It's like buying a top-of-the-line Cessna, having it unexpectedly break down in the middle of a flight over the Pacific, crashing down an a deserted island, and then celebrating when a solitary old man in a row boat happens by to rescue you. I'm mean, sure you're getting rescued... sort of, but now you're gonna have to live with the shame of your colossal mistake.

Some players don’t develop, don’t take the next step.  Sucks

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

And you (and many) are completely ignoring that cost like it's meaningless. 

In which case ANY trade for ANY player at ANY value can be spun as "good", if you ignore their cost to acquire and the cost to replace.  

If you're happy, great, be happy.  

It is meaningless. We're not evaluating the 2015 draft. Well. You are. Nobody else is.

[Jetmech]

“Best player in his draft class” by so many talking heads = 3 and 5th(conditional?)+4 million of his salary! Cool story..

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, Dcat said:

You keep harping at the #6 draft spot.  That has nothing to do with the present front office, who did as good a job as they could getting value back for a nearly valueless player.  Whether or not the team itself made him valueless based on the prior administrations actions is wholly irrelevant. 

I wish I could be like so many of you, where a change in GM wipes clear the stench of every previous move we've ever made, and getting literally a bag of footballs for those former #1 picks is a "really great trade" we're supposed to celebrate like we won something. 

Busts, who cares, the past means nothing.  3rd round picks for a team who hasn't landed a good 3rd rounder in decades, who cares, new GM, 3rd are good as gold now.   

It must be great to always see nothing but positive and never see the costs paid, the time invested, the losses, any of the downside of things or care about the past, only the glorious future that is sure to come.  

5 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

What was the alternative?

There was no alternative.  The deal itself is fine.  Which is what I said a few times already, but no worries.  Best we could probably get. 

Clearly, the forum has spoken, this is a great trade.  If we eliminate what Leo cost us, the time we invested in him and the losses we suffered during his time here, we got a 3rd.  That's great.  

[Jet Life]

10 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Ok.  Enjoy the great trade then I guess.

Hey I think everyone understands that taking a player at 6 who busts is indeed bad. But living in the present, getting assets back for him when he was leaving in 2 months anyway is good. Hope you understand now, you seem to be having some trouble!

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Jet Life said:

Hey I think everyone understands that taking a player at 6 who busts is indeed bad. But living in the present, getting assets back for him when he was leaving in 2 months anyway is good. Hope you understand now, you seem to be having some trouble!

Nope, no trouble.  Great trade.  Can't wait to see who we pick.

[Bomberjet]

2 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Good thing we shipped him out of conference.  Wouldnt want those 0 sacks interfering with our future.

We'll be playing them in a couple weeks?

[Plen T]

32 minutes ago, Warfish said:

No, I'm evaluating the totality of the exchange.  

It's almost like folks don't understand that this could be the best deal we'd get (i.e. a good thing generally) and still represent an overall bad thing in totality (the #6 pick being another in a long line of busts, part of why we're sitting borderline talent-less at 1-6, and a #3 pick being good only if used right).

We'll see who we draft.  Lets hope it's a good one.  And lets hope Leo sucks as a Giant.  

sh*t is common sense they took a huge L drafting this bum

time to recoup and get as much back as you can