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Losmeister

darnold = major bust (as of Nov 4, 2019)

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8 hours ago, Losmeister said:

it's that simple.

thread title adjustment

 

I can't call Sam a bust yet.   This CS and OL have him fearing for his life and rightfully so.. Statistically the worst OL in the history of the NFL... Let that sink in.    Let's fix the OL.  First and foremost.

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On 11/4/2019 at 3:45 AM, TeddEY said:

Until we have a coach who’s good enough to make Darnold elite it will always be the coaches fault, and if that coach should arrive Darnold will then be elite, so obviously not a bust.

But seriously, if you watch this guy and see someone who’s anything but a good athlete with no understanding of the mechanics and mental aspect of the position, you’re deluding yourself.

His mechanics are bad because he has no time to set his feet.. The OL is awful.    the only INT he threw in which he wasn't forcing a throw due to a free runner in his face as he was trying to backup to by a 1/2 second to try and make a play was the 1 int he threw in the Cowboys game.

 

 

I think Sam has a lot to learn but the reality is if he had a serviceable OL this conversation isn't happening.   It's hilarious that people are calling him a bust and sayin Josh Allen is improving and looking better and on the upward swing and yet from a pure statistical standpoint, he is playing better, albeit I state this loosely, than Allen.  And the Bills have the 3rd best OL in football thru Week 9 according to PFF.  So Imagine what Darnold would look like if he was not playing behind the 31st ranked OL.

 

Calling him a bust an overreactions for sure.   Am I concerned? Yes   But he needs the OL to be fixed before we ruin him.

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9 hours ago, Losmeister said:

only sometimes.

he has bad technique in general. perfectly protected, still sh*t footwork.

image.png.12ba15d400033f14b8f55dbcafde2201.png

As I stated in another thread Sam is who he is.  He has always played this way... Same as Brett Favre, Phillip Rivers and Aaron Rodgers.  Though I think Rodgers and Rivers are freaks with how accurate they are and mitigating their TO's   You gotta live with the good and bad.  In games like the Cowboy game in which he threw off his back foot a lot with a clean pocket and not under pressure.  He looked great.   He had 2 passes last week off his back foot and they were money throws.   Under intense pressure and throwing off your back foot is where Sam makes his mistakes. With him under intense pressure 90-90% of his throws those mistakes amplify.  Give him an OL that cuts the pressure down to the NFL average and Sam will reduce those mistakes and increase the productivity of the offense.  

 

Josh Allen has 10 TD and 7 Ints and 5 FL  behind the 3rd best OL in the NFL

Sam has 6 TDs and 9 Ints and 1 FL  behind the 30th ranked OL in the NFL

 

So maybe you believe even with Sam behind a top flight NFL OL like the Bills he is a bust.   I disagree... I watched him in College and he is who he is.  You may not like it and I understand.  I just disagree and think give him an average OL and he will be very good.   It also helps to correct footwork when your QB can actually be in the pocket to work on his footwork.    But he doesn't have the option right now.

 

It's real simple get an NFL average OL or better and lets judge him after that.  Until then it's easy to say he's a bust because he has no chance to develop and be the QB he is. 

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4 hours ago, TeddEY said:

This is all wishful thinking, as there’s no body of work to suggest that when he has time to throw, his footwork and mechanics are good.

The guy is a linebacker turned QB who only played two college seasons.  Isn’t it possible that he just doesn’t have the fundamentals?  Isn’t it possible that he doesn’t understand what defenses are doing?

Or, is the only option that he’s really good but behind a bad offensive line?

Like i just said in another response.   Like Favre, Rivers and even Rodgers... Sam isn't the mechanically perfect QB.  He has always made plays even when he's throwing off his back foot in a clean pocket.   Give the kid an OL that doesn't have him under siege and you'll see what he can do.  Good or bad.   I watched him in college and I have seen enough of him on the pro level to know that with just a functional OL he will be very good.   But this OL is not functional.  I could probably grab any 5 guys off this board that are over 6'1 and 300lbs and field an OL that would give Sam the same protection.  That is how historically bad the OL is.    This isn't an excuse for Sam.  It's a simple fact that their may not be a QB in NFL history that would look ok behind this OL.   hard to call him a bust or anything till we fix that.  If that never gets fixed he'll go down as a bust because the CS and FO never set him up for anything but failure 

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40 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

btw, i'd like to see where this OL lines up againistg historically worst...

not being argumentative here, but seriously wondering.

That's literally me regurgitating a comment I heard Pat Kirwan make on NFL Radio last week LOL!!!  

And honestly in the 48 years of my life and dating back to my first memories of the 1980 Jets and what seemed like Todd throwing an INT every other pass to the Ken O'Brien years specifically 85 where he seemed to get saked 6-7 times a game.   I have literally never seen a QB with Less time, free runners and missed blocks on every damn play then I have this year.  And we are only halfway thru the year.  

 

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11 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I actually think Sam is quite a bit like Brett Favre.  The problem is that Favre has an all-time arm to compensate for some of his mental and mechanical shortcomings.  Sam's arm - I believe it may be generous to call it average by NFL standards.

His arm is better than average but even with that said all the more reason to make sure the OL is fixed.  And arm strength is overrated sometimes.   Every play is designed to work within a certain time frame.   The QB needs to anticipate and throw the WR open.   Take Chad Pennington.   Darnolds arm is way better than Chad's.   Yet Chad threw one of the best deep balls in NFL history.   Randy Moss even said Chan never under threw him. Why?  Because Chad knew when to throw the ball in perfect timing with the WR and the route.   Also a trait Montana had. 

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33 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

i was just combing thru pre-draft stuff...   i am not implying that i believe his dude as legit...

but the crits i see? they say, baiscally, the same things and they have played out in his first 2 seasons to date.

whether he can course correct is to be seen...    as of now, looks like we got shafted in all we gave up for him

 

 

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100% his mechanics need work.  100% can be turnover prone, like I stated already, when he is under intense pressure and feels like he needs to make things happen he will turnover the ball.   Wildly inconsistent?  No. Inconsistent at times when the pocket breaks down quickly?  Yes   

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7 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Our Qb is 22 years old.

Here is a QB who played very little in his first year as a 22 year old (27 passing attempts) and then here are his 2nd and 3rd years as a 23 and then 24 year old.

23 years old: 17 tds, 16 ints, 205 yds per game, 60.8 comp %

24 years old: 11 tds, 15 ints, 192 yds per game,  58% comp %

Wonder who this Qb is?

If you are trying to make an argument that a Qb can take a few years to develop. You must have got lost and forgot what fan base you are talking too.   Lets give a young promising QB a few years to develop and lets help that kid develop by building a solid OL and some explosive weapons around him in that process, is the absolute stupidest thing ever mentioned.. Don't bring that logic and common sense to this board.  :sarc:

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1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

concise.

also, if you dont see giant alarming red flags. then ur fuggin blind.

to date? a bust. future? we'll see.

I think you and I define the word bust differently.  A bust to me is he didn't pan out and his career is over.   To date he's been inconsistent.

 

so far he's played 5 games.

2 bad games (NE and JAX)

1 Very good game (Dal)

2 good games (Buffalo and Miami)

Mia- Outside of the goal line pass he was very good with what he had to work with.  But a bone head play like that pisses people off I get it. But judging him solely on 1 play. One in which the OL blew their blocks and he had 2 free runners is silly IMO

Buff - One of the best Defenses in the NFL and him playing with Mono. Can't complain about his performance.  
 

2018 13 Games

5 bad games (Both Mia games, Chi,Cle and MIn)

4 very good games ( Den, Indy, GB, and Hou)

2 Good games ( Det and Buf)

2 average games ( NWE, Jax)

 

I can't use the word bust.   That to me is the final determination of Sam and his performances right now says the Jury is still out and with this OL I am not sure the blame falls on him alone for his performances yet.   we don't fix the OL Sam will be done after next year. We fix the OL and Sam may still be done after next year.  If the OL is improved I 100% believe Darnold will be much better. Now that's not saying he will be the franchise QB but put it this way if the OL is improved I would say Sam would have won the Buffalo game, the Miami game and the Jacksonville game.  And If the OL is improved and he consistently plays poorly still and loses games like that, then I will say he's a bust and it's time to move on

 

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10 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

ok. i can get with that.

howbout i say it like this. "midterm grade is a D."

I can get with that LOL

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