darnold = major bust (as of Nov 4, 2019)

[JustInFudge]

12 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

That was a bad look. Kids spirit is broken. Oh well. 

Broken or frustrated.  EIther or, it's bad because he just looked over it and immediately started yelling at Winters.

[Matt39]

From Jeremiah, who the Jets tried to hire:

 

 

[Losmeister]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

he just looked over .....and immediately started yelling at Winters.

swhat i do every time i see a run play blown up

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

There is truth to everyone saying he's only 18 games deep, 22 years old, terrible OL, terrible coaching, mediocre weapons, no run game/defense. 

There is also truth to he's not very good and might not be very good.  

It's probably true based on what we've seen he doesnt learn from his mistakes and he doesnt seem to have the next level competitive fire that sets the average apart from the best. 

The unfortunate truth is he's the least impressive starter in the entire NFL right now.

Didn't the NY Jets beat the Favre led Packers 42-17 & then whip the Payton Manning led Colts 41-0 in 2002?

You guys are going over the top now declaring Darnold a bust with the sh*t is playing with right now. He's hearing footsteps on every drop back & they are usually 280LB DEs, 300LB DTs, and 210 LB Safeties trying to knock his head clean off his body! Brady threw the ball away like 7 times last night like a pussy (a smart pussy), Sam is 22 & driving drunk (playing stupid football) on the field with very little help & supposed friends (Oline) that will all be out of the league next year or maybe a couple back ups. Give the kid the break for god sakes. 

[TxJetfan]

I think it's ridiculous and way too premature to label Sam Darnold as a bust.  This kid has talent, and he can play the position.  He'd look like a much different QB with even an average or slightly above average O-line. If there's a clear cut bust on this team, it's the HC and the O-line coach.  I would understand if they were running the ball successfully, or if there was more often than not, time for Sam to get through his progressions but that simply isn't the case. Successful teams are built from the line back on both sides of the ball, and with the Jets this isn't the case.  On the offensive side, whether it's the players or the scheme, they can't open holes or pass protect.  On the defensive side, they haven't done a good job of pressuring the QB, or stopping the run.  CB's are getting torched (granted that the CB position doesn't possess much talent) but perhaps if we were generating pressure consistently it would help on the back end.  I've been a Jets fan since 1966 ...Yes, 1966! ...I've been down this road way too many times to count, but talk of trading Darnold is just crazy...Think Steve Young from his Tampa Bay days, and the difference when he went to SF...Or Dallas, with that O-line which made DeMarcus Murray, and Zeke Elliot rushing champs..In all the years I've followed this game, I've seen tons of QB's come and go, and from what I see of Sam's natural ability he's legit....he just needs help, both from the guys in front of him, and some quality coaching, of which he has neither.

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Didn't the NY Jets beat the Favre led Packers 42-17 & then whip the Payton Manning led Colts 41-0 in 2002?

You guys are going over the top now declaring Darnold a bust with the sh*t is playing with right now. He's hearing footsteps on every drop back & they are usually 280LB DEs, 300LB DTs, and 210 LB Safeties trying to knock his head clean off his body! Brady threw the ball away like 7 times last night like a pussy (a smart pussy), Sam is 22 & driving drunk (playing stupid football) on the field with very little help & supposed friends (Oline) that will all be out of the league next year or maybe a couple back ups. Give the kid the break for god sakes. 

What does 2002 have to do with anything? 

And what changes if I give him this break you're asking for? 

[Jetster]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

What does 2002 have to do with anything? 

And what changes if I give him this break you're asking for? 

My point is those were BEATDOWNS! And obviously the QBs had to play like sh*t to lose that badly. Sam is getting his azz kicked on a weekly basis with zero help from anyone. Is he playing like sh*t? Yes, but he's got zero structure around him. He's literally trying to win games on his own. Its pretty sad really. 

[nyjets1969]

5 hours ago, J-Diddy said:

Agreed. He is awful. Sammy is not a special player at all. He’s not the answer. Gase and Douglass didn’t pick this scrub and they shouldn’t be responsible for his ineptitude.  The jets will move on in 2020. Gase will draft his own guy.  
 

Darnold is an epic bust.  

If Darnold is going Gase has to be fired no way are you letting him ruin another QB. If the Jets draft Tua your bringing a new coach with him.

[nyjets1969]

People seem to forget the only QB Gase was responsible in developing was Brock Osweiler all you have to do is see what he did with Osweiler and then you understand why Sam sucks. I dont blame Sam I blame Gase. 

[The Crusher]

37 minutes ago, JiF said:

Broken or frustrated.  EIther or, it's bad because he just looked over it and immediately started yelling at Winters.

Yep. Freaking boogie boarders!

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

Now Gannon is a comp?

Settle down Francis. I just mentioned his name in passing.

This is why it's almost impossible to have a conversation on here. Every  thought and sentence is nitpicked and a narrative is created, If I say Adams had a good/bad/neutral game, out come the snarky "best safety tandems don't win games. We should have drafted Mahomes."

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

laughable equating Sam with a Ferrari. A Ferrari is a finished product that purs.

Sam is a baby who plays like a long term loser with his terrible mechanics and brain dead errors.

That crap INT vs Dallas almost lost the game.

And the 92 yder he managed to sail aloft for so long the safety to ran 20 yds and almost gets his hands on it,

 

Okay dude, I am trying to have a reasonable conversation, but this is just getting dumb now.

I get you're pissed off, but there wasn't a franchise in the NFL that didn't want this kid.  He is 22 years old and has played 18 games.

If you want to have a reasonable conversation with the other posters, have one, but seriously.....

 

[Skeet Ulrich]

If Joe Burrow is available when the Jets pick, you have to take him. Way better talent coming out of college. More games, higher competition.

 

 

[The Crusher]

Just now, Skeet Ulrich said:

If Joe Burrow is available when the Jets pick, you have to take him. Way better talent coming out of college. More games, higher competition.

 

 

Is he so good he doesn't need any O lineman blocking? Because if he is that guy then you do everything you can to get him. If not you trade down, draft O line and hold the course with Sam until we have an O line. 

[Losmeister]

13 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Okay dude, I am trying to have a reasonable conversation, but this is just getting dumb now.

I get you're pissed off, but there wasn't a franchise in the NFL that didn't want this kid.  He is 22 years old and has played 18 games.

If you want to have a reasonable conversation with the other posters, have one, but seriously.....

 

how do you seriously call this kid a Ferrari?

[Raideraholic]

4 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Yep, Sam’s a bust. Damn it!

You missed what I was trying to say.   You can’t judge him till you rectify the offense line.   Some young QBs get ruined by putting them behind a porous offense line.   The danger of keep playing him now  behind a garbage offense line is that you develop bad habits( throwing off your back foot) and the internal clock in your head is sped up( if it’s real or not).  
Many young promising QBs were ruined by that.

[Losmeister]

2 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

You missed what I was trying to say.   You can’t judge him till you rectify the offense line.   Some young QBs get ruined by putting them behind a porous offense line.   The danger of keep playing him now  behind a garbage offense line is that you develop bad habits( throwing off your back foot) and the internal clock in your head is sped up( if it’s real or not).  
Many young promising QBs were ruined by that.

i dont believe in this ruined business...   i think real talent survives bad lines long enough

to get a shot SOMEWHERE to prove that you belong at this level.

predraft-

"Footwork can be sloppy and sketchy — not always square when delivering the ball. Arm talent isn’t special enough for him to get away with some of his poor-mechanic throws. Doesn’t throw as well rolling to his left. Can rifle easy passes too hard. Puts too many balls up for grabs — makes a few heart-attack throws per game. Twenty interceptions in his final 20 starts."

in the pros he is in the greater than 1 int/game catgegory. which is loser football.

[UntouchableCrew]

I am significantly less optimistic about his prospects now than I was at the end of last season.... But frankly that has more to do with the inept nature of how he's been handled by this organization than anything. We're in the processing of ruining him -- we're literally watching the process of a talented, promising young QB being destroyed by a bad organization. 

It's hard to blame the Elway's and Eli's of the world who knew they were better off away from a bad organization. Why would any young QB want to go to a franchise that has shown zero ability to develop or support them?

[Pac]

58 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

 

 

 

Pretty accurate.  He's shell shocked and Gase isn't helping him at all.  Yesterday I noticed guys open underneath and Darnold kept launching it long looking for the 14pt play.  They have to get him away from Gase pronto.

And they should have re signed Josh who everyone kept telling me had no impact on Darnold.

[Losmeister]

6 hours ago, Losmeister said:

what qb are you buttboys watching? you have nothing to say but neg rep, cos you are speechless that his footwork is so bad. throws up that INT in the redzone??  thats bush league.

ten neg reps and no one can explain/defend why his shoddy footwork is so shoddy.

JokeNation in full effect.

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, Jetster said:

My point is those were BEATDOWNS! And obviously the QBs had to play like sh*t to lose that badly. Sam is getting his azz kicked on a weekly basis with zero help from anyone. Is he playing like sh*t? Yes, but he's got zero structure around him. He's literally trying to win games on his own. Its pretty sad really. 

Trying to win games on his own? Is that what you're seeing? He looks like he's trying to lose them!!!

He looks lost out there. I'd love to have been a fly on the wall who heard the conversations on the field between him and Winters yesterday. I've got a feeling (as bad as the OL is) Winters and a lot of vets on this team are getting sick of what Darnold is bringing to the dance this year. From the mono to the ghosts, the turnovers, back foot throws and then just standing around watching the ball roll around on the safety play, he's become a laughing stock.

You keep making excuses for the kid, but he's got to get his head outta his a**. This isn't USC, and he doesn't have @HelenOfTroy around waving pom poms for him anymore.

It's time for this kid to man up, and start looking like he has a clue out there.

[Losmeister]

Can revert to bad muscle memory with flaws in the heat of the moment, especially when pressure is caving in from the middle.

Watch this play from the first meeting vs. Stanford (a game in which Darnold made a few plays like this), where he just throws one up for grabs. It’s 2nd-and-8, USC has an 11-point lead early in the second half, and they’re just outside field-goal range. Want to be aggressive here? No problem with that. But this just isn’t a great idea, throwing the ball (with poor mechanics) almost 40 yards in the air against a vertical bracket coverage with a safety over the top and the corner lurking underneath. It would have taken a near-perfect throw to avoid this interception:

 

[CanadaSteve]

2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

At this point, its the best thing. In fact I started a thread about it weeks ago.

I said yesterday I thought there was no way BOTH Gase and Sam would be back next year. I just didn't know who, and given the cold blooded back room dealer Gase is, I wouldn't sell him short.

The odds of Darnold turning this around before he gets completely broken here are getting worse each passing week.

OH, I remember the thread, at least I think it was this one.

I got RAKED over the coals for agreeing and suggesting that if a team calls about Sam, you listen.  It then turned into me being the dumbest poster and why would I give away a franchise QB for nothing.

I will reiterate what I actually said, in case you missed it. 

1) IF we had the number one pick and we could take Tua

2) Teams call about #1 pick and Sam, we get a ridiculous offer for Sam

3) It resets the QB rookie contract to year 1, with multiple picks to protect Tua and build around him

I am not convinced Sam is a bust.  He is off to a rough start, but thanks to the incompetence YET AGAIN of ownership and Mac, his climb went from a small hill the way he looked initially to that of a mountain expedition. 

[Skeet Ulrich]

21 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Is he so good he doesn't need any O lineman blocking? Because if he is that guy then you do everything you can to get him. If not you trade down, draft O line and hold the course with Sam until we have an O line. 

Of course any QB needs the infrastructure but I think we're dealing with different levels of player. I think Burrow can be a special QB. I don't think Darnold can develop into one(this isn't to say I'd think he'd be bad, just not special)

 

[Raideraholic]

15 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

i dont believe in this ruined business...   i think real talent survives bad lines long enough

to get a shot SOMEWHERE to prove that you belong at this level.

predraft-

"Footwork can be sloppy and sketchy — not always square when delivering the ball. Arm talent isn’t special enough for him to get away with some of his poor-mechanic throws. Doesn’t throw as well rolling to his left. Can rifle easy passes too hard. Puts too many balls up for grabs — makes a few heart-attack throws per game. Twenty interceptions in his final 20 starts."

in the pros he is in the greater than 1 int/game catgegory. which is loser football.

Go look at Derek Carr brother David  who was ruined for good  playing behind a offense line like the Jets.     Do you see him on the NFL Network when they bring in the top NFL QBs , he constantly is way more accurate than these top QBs.   ( now subject him to pressure, and you see a guy who was battered constantly .
 

No QB likes to take a hit , you hit a QBs enough times, and the greatest Qb is going to fold like a cheap suit .    Some of you Jet fans expectations weren’t realistic .   Sam Darnold is so great he doesn’t need a top offense line to be effective.   Rubbish .   You hit Brady enough now, and he’s going to look as bad as Darnold. ( when you hit forty it hurts like hell getting hit.

Jmo I wouldn’t play Darnold anymore till you fixed this offense line - to at least average.   Only thing you’re doing is creating mental and physical damage , he might never recover from.
All you need to look at history of QBs drafted with lousy offense lines , and how many busted.    

[CanadaSteve]

17 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

how do you seriously call this kid a Ferrari?

When he came out of college, he was one of the most touted QB prospects in years. 

Sorry, you don't like Ferrari?  How about a Beamer than.  Is that better?

The point is, he was HIGHLY sought after, and we got him.  But what did we do?  Draft defense the next two years, ignoring the OL, RB, and WR market for a total of 5-7 years.  So there is that.

His footwork is a little sloppy.  IT was well stated.  But that is what proper COACHING is to fix.  The kid might as well be out there running the Offense himself.  Great players didn't get there on there own.  It was silly to call him Andrew Luck.  Luck was a generational player.  Darnold never was.  But Darnold would/could still be a top 10 QB in this league if there was actually some help coming his way. 

 

[funaz]

There are lot of excuses for Sam in this thread. We've ALL used these EXACT SAME excuses in the past for either Geno, Sanchez, Pennington, even Fitzpatrick. You can reference these once in history exception to how Sam is playing right now and try to give yourself hope. 

 

The truth is he doesn't have it. Might not have ever had, but he certainly doesn't have it now and I don't see anyway he turns it around. The Pats game gave the blueprint on how to beat him, and it is iron clad and every team we played since is now copying it. You blitz him he folds. We can waste 2 more years and lots more excuses on this or we can just accept it and move on. 

Sam is one of the biggest problems of the 2019 Jets, not one of the pieces to build the future on. I'm not saying take our high pick and draft another qb, We have to fix a lot, but once we do it will be another QB who gets to benefit becuase Sam isn't it. 

 

[southtown24th]

major bust? 

Absolutely not.

heading south? surely.

[lounap23]

8 hours ago, Losmeister said:

it's that simple.

thread title adjustment

 

I can't call Sam a bust yet.   This CS and OL have him fearing for his life and rightfully so.. Statistically the worst OL in the history of the NFL... Let that sink in.    Let's fix the OL.  First and foremost.

[Losmeister]

3 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

Go look at Derek Carr brother David  who was ruined for good  playing behind a offense line like the Jets.    

David Carr was not secretly inwardly great. not even close. he was a bust.

[Losmeister]

3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

When he came out of college, he was one of the most touted QB prospects in years. 

he had a really short resume.

every year, regardless how bad the group is will still have Qb prospects rated 1, 2 and 3, right?

doesnt mean they are legit. or else, why so many busts? Joey Harrington. Marcus Mariota. Jameis.

Read the predraft flaws. Still there.

 

 

[DoubleDown]

I am a big Sam Darnold supporter, but as of today, he is a bust.  Does this mean he can't or won't turn things around?  No, but the fact remains he is not performing up to standards and needs to make big improvements to turn things around.  The costly turnovers need to stop.

The supporting cast around him is terrible, and the coaching is not putting him in a position to succeed.  However, the great players overcome the negatives.  Right now, Darnold is not seeing the field well, he's missing throws, and his mechanics have regressed from passable to downright poor.  He needs to pull himself out of this rut, and it's going to have to come from him.  Nobody else is going to do it for him.

[14 in Green]

1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

Settle down Francis. I just mentioned his name in passing.

This is why it's almost impossible to have a conversation on here. Every  thought and sentence is nitpicked and a narrative is created, If I say Adams had a good/bad/neutral game, out come the snarky "best safety tandems don't win games. We should have drafted Mahomes."

Sorry that touched a nerve. It wasn't intended to. I think you're the guy who needs to settle down Mary. Nobody brought your name into it. Part of having  "conversations" can be mentioning things brought up in prior posts, no?

Don't look to take things personal that aren't.

[Raideraholic]

Just now, Losmeister said:

David Carr was not secretly inwardly great. not even close. he was a bust.

I’m not going even argue about David Carr because you have no clue what you’re talking about.

People who don’t understand football label all young players who struggle out of the gate busts.   That isn’t the case as not all players mature at the same pace.    Some positions Rb, and Wr the transition from college  to the pro’s are pretty easy to make.    
 

Other positions like defense line, and QBs are much harder to make the transition.( takes more time)    In college playing for USC there talent was better that a lot of schools.  Most of the time there was considerable  separation from the Cb’s.    In the pro’s it’s so much faster game that there are much tighter windows a QBs has to throw to. ( sees much more complex defenses each week).

[DMan77]

Everyone calm down.

 

Sam is a 22 year old kid who is still learning. He'll be fine.