To the Darnold Bashers

[lounap23]

44 minutes ago, King P said:

I like Darnold, but I'm amazed at the emotional investment this board has in him, to the point where they have to go to crazy lengths to defend him. You say anything negative, and they swoop in ready to defend him from even the smallest of criticism. Surprising, considering damn near all the other QBs we drafted never had this long of a leash with the fans.

It's ok to acknowledge he himself hasn't been good. We can hope for the best, but not go crazy trying to make all these excuses for him and coddle him

I have no emotional investment in him.  I just don't want to be having the same Convo with the next great young franchise QB we draft because we don't have a CS that has a clue and an OL that is the worst ever.

I have said on a few threads already.   Sam is and has always been a guy that makes mistakes under extreme duress situations. That was his knock coming out of college.  The problem is he is under extreme duress almost every play.   Not 3 or 4 times a game like normal.   And I am not talking about pressure and pokets collapsing .  I am talking missed OL blocks and free runners coming at him.  I am talking about an OL that gets beat around 80% of the time in their blocks.  League average is about 47% of time.  

 

You can't call him a bust till you see what he can do with an NFL OL.   He gets one more year in my book.   FIX the OL at all costs this Offseason

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, JetsLife said:

But to categorically say he's a bust 1.5 seasons in to his NFL career amid nightmarish offensive coaching and supporting casts, is way premature.

i did amend the thread title. to AS OF TODAY, as in, so far, he's a bust.

he's played well less than 1/3 of the time.

that's not worth a 6th in the first and 2 2nds. not by a longshot.

[King P]

45 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Sanchez was here for 6 years and Geno 4. They had too much leash. Both ended up doing nothing after the Jets. Jets fans are headed down that path with Darnold now too. Were 1.5 years in and he has more bad games than good or even decent. How much longer can you give him? What's wrong with making the decision earlier? Criticism from the media? Who cares anymore. The likelihood of Darnold becoming a top 10 QB is basically gone.

They didn't have too much leash with the fans. Sanchez was tolerated for the first 2 years because we were a playoff team. We put up with him and his inconsistencies. By year 3, people already soured on him and wanted him gone. Geno was already down in our eyes by Year 2.

We're in Darnold's 2nd year and while he's had good stretches, he's had alot of poor moments as well but yet the fans keep coddling him and making excuses for him, when in the past those same people used to mockingly talk about "WeApOnZ LoLz!"

[prime21]

Between getting hit often by the defense and WR's that are constantly covered well (blame the scheme), any young QB will struggle.  He knows he doesn't have much time to throw and that messes with his confidence and probably trust in the plays that are called.  He has skills.  He needs someone to harness those skills and the GM needs to fix the line.

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

[kmnj]

I am about as negative and pessimistic as the come related to jets-sam is the only guy I think should be treated with kid gloves and given time. I think coaching actually does matter. I think talent around the qb actually does matter and I think the play calling actually does matter. I think Sam has been put in a terrible position especially at his age. It first starts with his coach who might be the worst hire in franchise history. He does not call plays to help sam succeed. His line is bad and badly coached. His Wrs are terrible as well. I am not sure why some folks were so excited by the arrival of Crowder or having Robby as our WR and lets not forget the big "playmaker in ty) has he even been on the field?

The jets need to fire gase now or sit sam the rest of the season so gase does not tannyhill him.

Hire  a proven QB coach and a proven guy to run the offense. The jets will do what the jets do best-they will ignore the offense in the draft defense and positions that dont have major impact. I still remember people talking about how smart it was to draft Adams then Maye trying to somehow compare it to the Hawks legion of boom that already have skill guys all over.

 

[Joe W. Namath]

Sam Darnold doesnt really need to be discussed anymore.  Its pretty apparent what the course is with him moving forward.  

We will trade our top 3 pick this year and get him offensive lineman and playmakers.  We will bring in a coach who has a plan to improve the qb.  

He gets all of next year to prove he is any good.  if hes not, we take a qb at the top of the 2021 draft.  Maybe trevor lawrence.

We are on the Mitch Trubisky plan with darnold.  See the bears for how this will be handled.

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, King P said:

We can hope for the best, but not go crazy trying to make all these excuses for him and coddle him

 

[Losmeister]

still no one believs he will get a 2:1 td/int ratio...   hmm

that's some slap-dick support

[Apache 51]

LB turned QB then to SC, he showed so much promise. What the hell is going on?

[funaz]

43 minutes ago, lounap23 said:

This may hold true for some.   But the reality is the OL is the worst in the history of the NFL.   NO QB has had more free runs on them according to NextGen stats then the Jets this year.   NO OL has missed or blown more block assignments then this Jets OL.   Pro Footaball focus has only given 2 Jets players a fair grade in any one game.  Edoga at RT against the Cowboys having the highest grade.  Overall the have the highest beat % of any OL and it's not even close.   So No I am not defending Sam's mistakes but the one thing I knew about Sam when he was drafted is when he is under extreme duress he makes mistakes. 

 1.  CS needs to coach that out of him and they aren't.  Coaching Staff is lifeless and can't make any adjustments on any level. Let alone in game adjustments.

 2.  The amount of duress he has been under is 10 times more than it should be. Look at the stats average time for a pass rush to a QB is 2.9 seconds.  Sam is 2.63.   Average time to throw is 2.8  Sam, you guessed it, it is 2.63.  Pockets are collapsing on QBs usually at 2.5ish.   With the Jets it's collapsing at 2.25ish.  He has no chance to get past his first read. 

3.  Again I am not defending Sam but get a functional barely decent OL around him and then lets see what he does.

4. Drafting another QB high in Rd 1 and not a LT isn't gonna help that new young franchise QB.  He will look like sh*t too

 

 

You literally just proved my point about the excuses. 

Do you really think the CS is NOT trying to couch him out of those horrible mechanics. Those mechanics weren't there in preseason, they come out when he is under pressure, and the pressure he is under he is making worse because of his second guessing and bad mechanics. 

No where have i said we should draft a QB high in rd1. There are lots of problems with the team, however Darnold is one of those major problems, not one of the pieces to build on

[lauderdale jet]

i was on the "no way you trade darnold" bandwagon if you will.....but after losing all these games, him playing like a worse version of neil oddonell, - and just a few min ago watching highlights of tua, who looks like russel wilson meets lamar jackson. i say trade darnold for a 2 - trade leveon and, adams  for 2 and a 3 respectfully.

build around tua. hes going to be a bonafide star

IF WE GET THE FIRST PICK I ONLY DO THIS SINCE TUA IS GETTING TAKEN FIRST

[Losmeister]

4 minutes ago, lauderdale jet said:

- and just a few min ago watching highlights of tua, who looks like russel wilson meets lamar jackson. i say trade darnold for a 2 - trade leveon and, adams  for 2 and a 3 respectfully.

build around tua. hes going to be a bonafide star

i just see him getting injured. not being argumentative w/ ya. just my take. gotta bad feeling.

that may be cos i started follwoing Bama as soon as i leraned Joe namath was from there...  77ish.

and recently so many Jet bama picks have been flopmonsters.

[Losmeister]

also, Sam has made absolutely zero plays with his legs.

[lauderdale jet]

3 hours ago, Losmeister said:

i just see him getting injured. not being argumentative w/ ya. just my take. gotta bad feeling.

that may be cos i started follwoing Bama as soon as i leraned Joe namath was from there...  77ish.

and recently so many Jet bama picks have been flopmonsters.

i get what you mean..i do

but i take my chances, hes that good

of course if we dont get the first pick this conversation means nothing

[Jet_Engine1]

[lounap23]

2 hours ago, funaz said:

You literally just proved my point about the excuses. 

Do you really think the CS is NOT trying to couch him out of those horrible mechanics. Those mechanics weren't there in preseason, they come out when he is under pressure, and the pressure he is under he is making worse because of his second guessing and bad mechanics. 

No where have i said we should draft a QB high in rd1. There are lots of problems with the team, however Darnold is one of those major problems, not one of the pieces to build on

I truly believe this coaching staff is about as incompetent as the worst HS coaching staff their is in the nation.  Nothing Gase says comes across as him coaching up Darnold. name one great QB that would look at least average with this staff, OL and WR's group.

I am not making excuses.  You clearly have a comprehension problem.  Sam has a problem he needs to fix.   A problem well documented leading up to the draft....  Still considered the #1 QB with that problem going into the draft.    But we are not helping fix, mask or mitigate that problem.  This CS and OL magnify that problem.    

I don't know if Sam is a bust or not. I do know he i s part of the problem.  I do not think he is a major problem, yet.     

I want a better CS and better OL before I say he is part of the problem or the major problem. 

My order of offensive problems

1. OL - Major Problem 

2. Receivers - Big Problem

3. Game Plan - Big Problem

4. Darnold - Problem

5. In game Adjustments - Small Problem

Hell I may have made an argument here to Keep Gase LOL
 

[MichaelScott]

I'm very concerned about the possible long term damage Gase is doing to Sam. 

I'm not sure Sam's biggest strength is mental toughness. I'm worried the negative play and growing criticism is going to snowball. We all joked about McCown as a 10mil mentor, but I genuinely think his absence is being felt by Sam big time. Think about it, with Gase being the disconnected useless clown that he is, who is Sam turning to after games like these?

Josh would be a tremendous help right now. 

[Joejet]

3 hours ago, lauderdale jet said:

i was on the "no way you trade darnold" bandwagon if you will.....but after losing all these games, him playing like a worse version of neil oddonell, - and just a few min ago watching highlights of tua, who looks like russel wilson meets lamar jackson. i say trade darnold for a 2 - trade leveon and, adams  for 2 and a 3 respectfully.

build around tua. hes going to be a bonafide star

IF WE GET THE FIRST PICK I ONLY DO THIS SINCE TUA IS GETTING TAKEN FIRST

He’s played two years of college football and has been injured both years.  What makes you think he can stay healthy in the nfl?

[FireTheJohnsons]

5 hours ago, King P said:

I like Darnold, but I'm amazed at the emotional investment this board has in him, to the point where they have to go to crazy lengths to defend him. You say anything negative, and they swoop in ready to defend him from even the smallest of criticism. Surprising, considering damn near all the other QBs we drafted never had this long of a leash with the fans.

It's ok to acknowledge he himself hasn't been good. We can hope for the best, but not go crazy trying to make all these excuses for him and coddle him

There’s also equally many people here who are rooting against him and bashing him for everything.

i find that even weirder. It’s in the Jets best interest to have Darnold be the guy

[FireTheJohnsons]

QB is the most important position on the field, but not the only one. And very, very few historically are able to overcome an atrocious line. He’s been bad, but I fail to see who would be anything but bad with this sh*t fest he is playing with. 

[playtowinthegame]

3 hours ago, Losmeister said:

also, Sam has made absolutely zero plays with his legs.

But but he looked like Fran Tarkenton for one play in Buffalo last year...oh and that cost us Bosa. 

[Aussie Jet]

5 hours ago, JetsLife said:

Yesterday during the game CBS put up a graphic illustrating Peyton, Steve Young, and other great QBs had WORSE starts to their careers than Darnold.

Yes, Sam could be a bust. But to categorically say he's a bust 1.5 seasons in to his NFL career amid nightmarish offensive coaching and supporting casts, is way premature.

 

I remember the same excuses being made for Sanchez.

I like Darnold and he is not being done any favours by his moron head coach, but he has issues he needs to fix and quickly in order to be a top 12 quarterback in this league.

[RonaldJet]

4 hours ago, King P said:

They didn't have too much leash with the fans. Sanchez was tolerated for the first 2 years because we were a playoff team. We put up with him and his inconsistencies. By year 3, people already soured on him and wanted him gone. Geno was already down in our eyes by Year 2.

We're in Darnold's 2nd year and while he's had good stretches, he's had alot of poor moments as well but yet the fans keep coddling him and making excuses for him, when in the past those same people used to mockingly talk about "WeApOnZ LoLz!"

The organization invested a sh*t ton in Darnold. He’s getting every chance to turn it around like it or not. 
 

[King P]

Just now, RonaldJet said:

The organization invested a sh*t ton in Darnold. He’s getting every chance to turn it around like it or not. 
 

I'm fine with that. I like Darnold and want him to succeed. I'm simply pointing out the inconsistencies of fans between the Darnold and QBs we've had in the past

[Joe W. Namath]

10 minutes ago, Aussie Jet said:

I remember the same excuses being made for Sanchez.

I like Darnold and he is not being done any favours by his moron head coach, but he has issues he needs to fix and quickly in order to be a top 12 quarterback in this league.

Correct.  Jet fans are full of excuses.  Its one of the reasons our fanbase is known as the worst in football.

Darnold sucks.  Gase sucks too but darnold sucks just as much.

He will have one more year next year to prove hes not mitch trubisky.  

[Sammybighead]

5 hours ago, King P said:

I like Darnold, but I'm amazed at the emotional investment this board has in him, to the point where they have to go to crazy lengths to defend him. You say anything negative, and they swoop in ready to defend him from even the smallest of criticism. Surprising, considering damn near all the other QBs we drafted never had this long of a leash with the fans.

It's ok to acknowledge he himself hasn't been good. We can hope for the best, but not go crazy trying to make all these excuses for him and coddle him

I think people defend him cause he's been giving nothing and the world has been expected of him. If he had everything Sanchez had in 2009/2010 and was still playing terrible, I'd be right there booing him as well. But people are already looking to move on. Are you kidding me? Draft another qb without knowing for certain what you got with Sam? It is a FACT that you can't possibly know what he is yet. He has no line, to running game, no consistent WR threat. So let's pump the brakes and try building around him first. If he's a bust, that truth will come out but you need to be in a position to actually make a fair judgement first.

[Jet_Engine1]

42 minutes ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

There’s also equally many people here who are rooting against him and bashing him for everything.

i find that even weirder. It’s in the Jets best interest to have Darnold be the guy

You are entirely missing the point (at least mine). April 2018, Sam Darnold was talented, gifted potential Franchise Quarterback, who was very young, and still very raw.

The New York Jets found themselves in the fortunate position (after having to spend a lot of draft capital) to be able to draft him, and did.

They then spent 3 of their next 4 picks in the draft on Defense, knowing they had a problematic O line and marginal skill players (this was after giving a massive contract to a has been CB with zero work ethic).

They entrusted his development to Todd Bowles, Bates, a guy best known for fleeing society and living in the mountains, and an elderly journeyman QB.

After an up and down rookie season where the kid played behind the worst Center and Guards in the league, the team fired Bowles and Bates and hired a guy who had just been Fired from a division rival for losing the locker room, putting up a losing record, and failing to develop a young, highly drafted, raw QB.

Gase also refused to bring in a QB coach, and instead decided that Darnold could be developed by himself and his fat idiot buddy.

During the offseason, the team then  made a MASSIVE FA DEAL....for an ILB! Yeah, ok, they also brought in Crowder, a reliable slot receiver.

After failing to upgrade the O line at all, beyond getting an injured and recently benched OG for a nickel, the Jets drafted.....a DT, an abject failure at OLB, an undersized and physically limited OT, and a bunch of brokedick nobodies.

THEN they fired the GM. LOL.

Center? They brought in a broken, retired Ryan Kalil. Then injuries and mono. Then more failure at O line, where the replacements (aside from Lewis) all show why they were on the bench.

The head coach has zero answers. The line is terrible. The organization is trash. And the QB looks like playing Football is a prison sentence.

Darnold being shot isn't Darnolds fault. LOL. It's the Jets. As usual. And by the time they get this sh*t sorted out, and IF hes salvageable, Darnold will be looking to get the **** away from this cursed, amateur, dumpster Fire of an organization.

Darnold is broken, the Jets broke him, and the Jets do not have the ability to "fix" him, much less develop him.

[Kevin L]

47 minutes ago, FireTheJohnsons said:

QB is the most important position on the field, but not the only one. And very, very few historically are able to overcome an atrocious line. He’s been bad, but I fail to see who would be anything but bad with this sh*t fest he is playing with. 

It's literally that simple. 

Name one HOF QB who would look good on this team.. Just one.

[Joe W. Namath]

Sam Darnold was fools gold from the start.  The only difference btwn him and mitch trubisky is a rose bowl game.  But jet fans have been desparte for a qb for 40 plus years.  They emotionally cant handle another bust qb so they are clinging real tight.

I get where the darnold fsnboys are coming from. But they should have paid more attention to who he really was as a college qb outside of the rose bowl game.

[CanadaSteve]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

It takes you five full years?

 

 

You asked my man! 

In all seriousness, I would give him two more years.  Douglas has a CRAP ton of work to do.  Do we really think Douglas can get five new starters on the OLine plus depth, two more WR's, a TE, and another RB all in one season?

 

[CanadaSteve]

10 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Sam Darnold was fools gold from the start.  The only difference btwn him and mitch trubisky is a rose bowl game.  But jet fans have been desparte for a qb for 40 plus years.  They emotionally cant handle another bust qb so they are clinging real tight.

I get where the darnold fsnboys are coming from. But they should have paid more attention to who he really was as a college qb outside of the rose bowl game.

YAWN.....

[Jet_Engine1]

15 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Sam Darnold was fools gold from the start.  The only difference btwn him and mitch trubisky is a rose bowl game.  But jet fans have been desparte for a qb for 40 plus years.  They emotionally cant handle another bust qb so they are clinging real tight.

I get where the darnold fsnboys are coming from. But they should have paid more attention to who he really was as a college qb outside of the rose bowl game.

¡Yo soy Desparte!

 

@14 in Green

[Jet_Engine1]

 

[ZachEY]

I'm curious - is it the bad offensive line, or the WRs that make him throw off of his back foot to no one?