Turning a franchise around

[rbstern]

I live in Atlanta.  I'm a fair-weather Falcons fan.  Or, more accurately: The worse the Jets are, the more I'll watch the Falcons.  Unless the Falcons are a train wreck of the same magnitude at the Jets, which is currently the case.

I watched the Falcons under the Smith family ownership.  Inept.  Bad drafts, mostly bad coaching hires (Dan Reeves being the exception).  Very questionable ability to evaluate talent (they traded away rookie Brett Favre).  One or two minor shining moments, aside, they produced pretty bad football teams, year in, year out.  Not a franchise with a winning culture,

And then Arthur Blank comes along and buys the team.  As a Home Depot founder, Blank is Atlanta business royalty, with a reputation as a savvy businessman.  He's part of the 1990s Atlanta metro resugence story He expects to compete.  He expects to give the people he hires what they need to compete.  He's used to winning in the world, and right away he sets a tone of expecting to win.  He spends time learning what he needs to learn about owning an NFL franchise.  After some fits and starts, probably the most imporant lesson he learns is you need a very capable general manager, and you need to let that guy do his job.  In 2008, he hires Thomas Dmitroff, who is, first and foremost, a scout.  Over the years, Blank is involved and visible, but it is absolutely Dimitroff runing the show.  Dimitroff's first draft?  A franchise QB and a franchise left tackle.  The two most important and difficult to replace building blocks of an NFL franchise.  The Falcons have been decent at drafts and signing valuable free agents to complete their roster under Dimitroff's guidance.

The Falcons have won 3 division titles and been to the playoffs 6 times since Dimitroff took the reigns.  Yes, they are bad this, year.  Surprisingly, very bad.  That looks to be a Dan Quinn issue, more than anything else, because the team has enough talent to be competitive.

Point is, they went from a wobegonefranchise franchise, to competitive in most years that Dimitroff has been at the helm, playing winning football more often than not.  They expect to win, and people are surprised when they don't, which is a characteristic of a winning culture.

So, the Jets questions is:  Is Joe Douglas that guy?  He's a scout.  Philly developed a lot of very good talent with him running the personnel side of things.  I don't think there's any choice, and we won't know for another two, three, maybe four years whether he's Dimitroff or Maccagnan.

Bottom line:  It takes a lot of turn around a franchise.  A lot.  Can it be done with the same ownership?  I honestly don't know.  If they let Douglas do his job, and he's good, the Jets will eventually be good.  If they don't let him do his job, or he's not good, they'll be bad for another decade.

[Rexorcism]

I live in Atlanta.  I'm a fair-weather Falcons fan.  Or, more accurately: The worse the Jets are, the more I'll watch the Falcons.  Unless the Falcons are a train wreck of the same magnitude at the Jets, which is currently the case.

I watched the Falcons under the Smith family ownership.  Inept.  Bad drafts, mostly bad coaching hires (Dan Reeves being the exception).  Very questionable ability to evaluate talent (they traded away rookie Brett Favre).  One or two minor shining moments, aside, they produced pretty bad football teams, year in, year out.  Not a franchise with a winning culture,

And then Arthur Blank comes along and buys the team.  As a Home Depot founder, Blank is Atlanta business royalty, with a reputation as a savvy businessman.  He's part of the 1990s Atlanta metro resugence story He expects to compete.  He expects to give the people he hires what they need to compete.  He's used to winning in the world, and right away he sets a tone of expecting to win.  He spends time learning what he needs to learn about owning an NFL franchise.  After some fits and starts, probably the most imporant lesson he learns is you need a very capable general manager, and you need to let that guy do his job.  In 2008, he hires Thomas Dmitroff, who is, first and foremost, a scout.  Over the years, Blank is involved and visible, but it is absolutely Dimitroff runing the show.  Dimitroff's first draft?  A franchise QB and a franchise left tackle.  The two most important and difficult to replace building blocks of an NFL franchise.  The Falcons have been decent at drafts and signing valuable free agents to complete their roster under Dimitroff's guidance.

The Falcons have won 3 division titles and been to the playoffs 6 times since Dimitroff took the reigns.  Yes, they are bad this, year.  Surprisingly, very bad.  That looks to be a Dan Quinn issue, more than anything else, because the team has enough talent to be competitive.

Point is, they went from a wobegonefranchise franchise, to competitive in most years that Dimitroff has been at the helm, playing winning football more often than not.  They expect to win, and people are surprised when they don't, which is a characteristic of a winning culture.

So, the Jets questions is:  Is Joe Douglas that guy?  He's a scout.  Philly developed a lot of very good talent with him running the personnel side of things.  I don't think there's any choice, and we won't know for another two, three, maybe four years whether he's Dimitroff or Maccagnan.

Bottom line:  It takes a lot of turn around a franchise.  A lot.  Can it be done with the same ownership?  I honestly don't know.  If they let Douglas do his job, and he's good, the Jets will eventually be good.  If they don't let him do his job, or he's not good, they'll be bad for another decade.

 

 

 

 

Falcons have sucked since they choked away a virtually unblowable lead in the Super Bowl and handed Belichick another Lombardi. They are still just as Jetsy as the Jets. Bad analogy

 

 

 

[rbstern]

2 hours ago, Rexorcism said:

Falcons have sucked since they choked away a virtually unblowable lead in the Super Bowl and handed Belichick another Lombardi. They are still just as Jetsy as the Jets. Bad analogy

Remind me:  What were the Jets doing while the Falcons were in the Superbowl?

[Jet_Engine1]

1 minute ago, rbstern said:

Remind me:  What were the Jets doing while the Falcons were in the Superbowl?

I remember you!! RBStern!

[Jetscode1]

2 hours ago, rbstern said:

I live in Atlanta.  I'm a fair-weather Falcons fan.  Or, more accurately: The worse the Jets are, the more I'll watch the Falcons.  Unless the Falcons are a train wreck of the same magnitude at the Jets, which is currently the case.

I watched the Falcons under the Smith family ownership.  Inept.  Bad drafts, mostly bad coaching hires (Dan Reeves being the exception).  Very questionable ability to evaluate talent (they traded away rookie Brett Favre).  One or two minor shining moments, aside, they produced pretty bad football teams, year in, year out.  Not a franchise with a winning culture,

And then Arthur Blank comes along and buys the team.  As a Home Depot founder, Blank is Atlanta business royalty, with a reputation as a savvy businessman.  He's part of the 1990s Atlanta metro resugence story He expects to compete.  He expects to give the people he hires what they need to compete.  He's used to winning in the world, and right away he sets a tone of expecting to win.  He spends time learning what he needs to learn about owning an NFL franchise.  After some fits and starts, probably the most imporant lesson he learns is you need a very capable general manager, and you need to let that guy do his job.  In 2008, he hires Thomas Dmitroff, who is, first and foremost, a scout.  Over the years, Blank is involved and visible, but it is absolutely Dimitroff runing the show.  Dimitroff's first draft?  A franchise QB and a franchise left tackle.  The two most important and difficult to replace building blocks of an NFL franchise.  The Falcons have been decent at drafts and signing valuable free agents to complete their roster under Dimitroff's guidance.

The Falcons have won 3 division titles and been to the playoffs 6 times since Dimitroff took the reigns.  Yes, they are bad this, year.  Surprisingly, very bad.  That looks to be a Dan Quinn issue, more than anything else, because the team has enough talent to be competitive.

Point is, they went from a wobegonefranchise franchise, to competitive in most years that Dimitroff has been at the helm, playing winning football more often than not.  They expect to win, and people are surprised when they don't, which is a characteristic of a winning culture.

So, the Jets questions is:  Is Joe Douglas that guy?  He's a scout.  Philly developed a lot of very good talent with him running the personnel side of things.  I don't think there's any choice, and we won't know for another two, three, maybe four years whether he's Dimitroff or Maccagnan.

Bottom line:  It takes a lot of turn around a franchise.  A lot.  Can it be done with the same ownership?  I honestly don't know.  If they let Douglas do his job, and he's good, the Jets will eventually be good.  If they don't let him do his job, or he's not good, they'll be bad for another decade.

Good perspective.  A lot riding on Joe Douglas for this franchise.  I hope he's the real deal.

[southparkcpa]

4 minutes ago, rbstern said:

Remind me:  What were the Jets doing while the Falcons were in the Superbowl?

Decent write up but something is missing from the Falcons too. Jets and Falcons last 10 years I imagine have similar records...give or take.    I’m a fan of Arthur Blanc but WTF in that super bowl. 

[maury77]

In today's NFL, the 3 most important things you need to win consistently are a good GM, good coach and a good QB. I'm still a believer in Douglas and Darnold, but Gase has to go. 

[Pac]

The Chris Johnson hate is a little out of control.  His players like him, doesn't shy away from spending money, and he genuinely seems to care about the team and fans.

I know everyone is only talking about Douglas but CJ opened up the checkbook to make this a formidable front office.  Phil Savage, Chad Alexander, and Rex Hogan are well respected and highly capable additions.  I have a lot of confidence that they will attack the offseason with aplomb.

There are pieces here and despite the drama and despair this could be a VERY quick turnaround.  Simply getting healthy will do wonders.

And yes, 80.  This was a #playoff roster in August and I see no reason why it won't be next year as well.

 

[jetstream23]

24 minutes ago, maury77 said:

In today's NFL, the 3 most important things you need to win consistently are a good GM, good coach and a good QB. I'm still a believer in Douglas and Darnold, but Gase has to go. 

Great post. Those ARE the three things.

I think Darnold is the guy. I’m hopeful on Douglas and have lost all confidence in Gase. 

[Freemanm]

Maccagnan’s philosophy was that your team can be successful with a patchwork offensive line. JD knows that the line is the foundation of the offense. Give JD two seasons to fix this.

[peebag]

1 hour ago, Pac said:

The Chris Johnson hate is a little out of control.  His players like him, doesn't shy away from spending money, and he genuinely seems to care about the team and fans.

I know everyone is only talking about Douglas but CJ opened up the checkbook to make this a formidable front office.  Phil Savage, Chad Alexander, and Rex Hogan are well respected and highly capable additions.  I have a lot of confidence that they will attack the offseason with aplomb.

There are pieces here and despite the drama and despair this could be a VERY quick turnaround.  Simply getting healthy will do wonders.

And yes, 80.  This was a #playoff roster in August and I see no reason why it won't be next year as well.

 

This was not a playoff team this year, far from it.  Too many people had green colored glasses on

[CanadienJetsFan]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

In today's NFL, the 3 most important things you need to win consistently are a good GM, good coach and a good QB. I'm still a believer in Douglas and Darnold, but Gase has to go. 

I think it’s good owner, good coach, good QB.

since most billionaire owners don’t know jack squat about football, a good owner hires a competent GM to pick the coach and ultimately drafts or buys via free agency, the QB.

The Jets aren’t structured this way. We have an incompetent owner who continues to “marry” a GM and a coach thinking that’s the right recipe for success.

It hasn’t worked Johnson brothers.Has it ever worked?

If Giants do smash us next week, I too believe that Gase gets the axe. But if CJ  comes out saying that he and he alone will choose the next coach, we’re back at square one.

Until this team’s organizational structure is changed, this team will never get better.

[Pac]

2 minutes ago, peebag said:

This was not a playoff team this year, far from it.  Too many people had green colored glasses on

That's your opinion and that's cool but what about the other stuff in the post?  What you think about CJ and the FO that's been assembled?

[JetFaninMI]

[Rexorcism]

Remind me:  What were the Jets doing while the Falcons were in the Superbowl?

Doesnt matter. Your Falcons are 1-7 facing changes just like us. They finally got to the SB a few years ago, were kicking the Patriots’ asses with a huge, commanding lead and they blew it. The Jets almost got to the SB those 2 years in a row with Rex and if they got there and choked like the Falcons did, we all would’ve said “ Same Old Jets.” So I don’t buy your narrative that we’re supposed to follow the Falcons lead, they’re a mess right now just like us.

[jgb]

9 hours ago, Rexorcism said:

 

 

 

 

Falcons have sucked since they choked away a virtually unblowable lead in the Super Bowl and handed Belichick another Lombardi. They are still just as Jetsy as the Jets. Bad analogy

 

 

 

That’s funny a Jets fan saying another team is a joke for not beating the Pats in the SB.

[NYJ1]

It's always an exercise in blind faith? You always have to TRUST Woody or Chris finally made the right choice. The fact is, they've NEVER made a decent hire. We hope that he got it right this time.

[Rexorcism]

That’s funny a Jets fan saying another team is a joke for not beating the Pats in the SB.

Oh, excuse me, please lay your Jets fan expertise on me about how we’re supposed to model ourselves after another 1-7 team that choked away a SB a couple years ago. Enlighten me, genius.
They were kicking their ass and impossibly choked it away and they’re 1-7 just like us.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

Oh, excuse me, please lay your Jets fan expertise on me about how we’re supposed to model ourselves after another 1-7 team that choked away a SB a couple years ago. Enlighten me, genius.
They were kicking their ass and impossibly choked it away and they’re 1-7 just like us.

I said it was a funny joke, that’s a compliment. But I can see you’re not in a laughing mood. I think you’re taking this all far too seriously.

[Rexorcism]

Falcons reeling, Quinn’s job status muddied at bye
BY GEORGE HENRY ASSOCIATED PRESS OCTOBER 31, 2019 07:09 PM
Atlanta Falcons running back Devonta Freeman (24) fumbles at the Seattle Seahawks one-yard line with Seahawks linebacker Bobby Wagner recovering the ball during the fourth quarter of an NFL football game on Sunday, Oct. 27, 2019, in Atlanta.
ATLANTA

The Atlanta Falcons never thought they'd be 1-7 at the halfway point of the season.

But here they are at the bye, tied for the NFC's worst record and looking even worse than last year's disappointing team.

A six-game losing streak has caused Falcons owner Arthur Blank to spend this week evaluating coach Dan Quinn, general manager Thomas Dimitroff and the football operations.


Blank was noncommittal on the future of both men when asked after last week's loss to Seattle. The Falcons are 4-12 since Week 9 last year, and attendance has never been worse in three seasons at Mercedes-Benz Stadium.

"It's very painful," Blank said. "I understand that. I've always been here. I'm going to be in my seat. Hopefully, the great majority of our fans will as well. I think they understand our ownership has been committed for almost 20 years now in doing the right things for the franchise. I look at our record over that period of time compared to the prior 36 years, and it's extraordinarily good."

The Falcons have won more consistently under Blank's ownership than they did with the Smith family from 1966-2001, but Blank kept holding out hope that the likable Quinn would engineer a big turnaround this year.


"The one key thing I think you need to keep in mind, it's not a reason or another, but it is a fact — the players — they love Dan Quinn," Blank said. "They're playing hard for him. The results aren't there, and I understand that, and they understand that as well."


Quinn made big changes to his staff after last season, firing all three coordinators and naming himself defensive coordinator. The Falcons reinvested in Julio Jones, Grady Jarrett and Deion Jones. They drafted two offensive linemen in the first round to help protect quarterback Matt Ryan and generate a consistent running game.

But the season has been sideways from the start. The Falcons trailed 28-0 in the third quarter of the opener at Minnesota and probably would have lost to Philadelphia the following week if not for a dropped pass.

They haven't won since. The defense ranks at or near the bottom in nearly every statistical category. The offense has been unable to score consistently, and the team has employed four kickers and three punters since August.


Last week's trade of veteran receiver Mohamed Sanu was the first sign that changes are coming even though Blank hasn't fired a head coach in midseason since Dan Reeves was let go in December 2003.

"We'll continue to look at everything we can and make the right decisions when we have to make them," Blank said. "I'm not bashful about making those decisions."

Players and coaches have said all season that effort isn't lacking, but the team begins most games looking poorly prepared. No number has been worse than the aggregate deficit in first halves, a differential of 94 points that's given Atlanta little hope of rallying after intermission.

Quinn said he was more frustrated than ever as he watched his team fall behind 24-0 in the first half last week .


"What's it been like? You really want to know that? It makes you mad as hell because we're not hitting the mark that you want to that we're capable of," Quinn said. "That's why you want to push like hell. As a coach, when there's a problem, you want to solve the problem. Each week you're trying to find the space to get yourself being more consistent. When you have that happen, yeah, you're upset about it."

Atlanta has issues at nearly every position.

Ryan missed his first game since 2009 when he was sacked for the fifth time two weeks ago and suffered a sprained ankle. Right guard Chris Lindstrom has been sidelined most of the season with an injury. Defensive ends Vic Beasley and Takk McKinley, both former first-round picks, lead a pass rush that ranks last in sacks. Strong safety Keanu Neal is injured for the second straight season, and Isaiah Oliver, a second-round pick last year, has struggled as a starting cornerback.

Quinn, though, still hopes for the best.


"For whatever reason, this is a good team that has a bad record," he said, "and we have not had that kind of chemistry to play all complementary football together."

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

Good perspective.  A lot riding on Joe Douglas for this franchise.  I hope he's the real deal.

Douglas is just Gase’s puppet

 

If you fire Gase you also have to fire Douglas who btw all his moves so far have stunk

 

[Philc1]

27 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

Doesnt matter. Your Falcons are 1-7 facing changes just like us. They finally got to the SB a few years ago, were kicking the Patriots’ asses with a huge, commanding lead and they blew it. The Jets almost got to the SB those 2 years in a row with Rex and if they got there and choked like the Falcons did, we all would’ve said “ Same Old Jets.” So I don’t buy your narrative that we’re supposed to follow the Falcons lead, they’re a mess right now just like us.

There is a difference between being 1-7 and competitive in games and 1-7 and getting blown out by the dolphins every week

[BurnleyJet]

Being trolled by Falcon fans, how bad has it gotten ?

[rangerous]

10 hours ago, Pac said:

The Chris Johnson hate is a little out of control.  His players like him, doesn't shy away from spending money, and he genuinely seems to care about the team and fans.

I know everyone is only talking about Douglas but CJ opened up the checkbook to make this a formidable front office.  Phil Savage, Chad Alexander, and Rex Hogan are well respected and highly capable additions.  I have a lot of confidence that they will attack the offseason with aplomb.

There are pieces here and despite the drama and despair this could be a VERY quick turnaround.  Simply getting healthy will do wonders.

And yes, 80.  This was a #playoff roster in August and I see no reason why it won't be next year as well.

 

good points about the johnsons.  they do spend a ton on the team and the players underperform.  there's only so much the team owner can do.  at this point all we do is watch gase take his lumps and, as long as he doesn't lose the locker room, he should be able to do much better next season.

i disagree about this team being a playoff team in august.  i thought so at the time but it's pretty obvious the oline is just not performing very well.  they are worse than last year and it can't all be because of injuries.

[Philc1]

7 minutes ago, rangerous said:

good points about the johnsons.  they do spend a ton on the team and the players underperform.  there's only so much the team owner can do.  at this point all we do is watch gase take his lumps and, as long as he doesn't lose the locker room, he should be able to do much better next season.

i disagree about this team being a playoff team in august.  i thought so at the time but it's pretty obvious the oline is just not performing very well.  they are worse than last year and it can't all be because of injuries.

Before the season started 7-8 wins was realistic

 

It was even realistic before 2018

 

It’s the coaching that’s the problem

 

[Losmeister]

13 hours ago, rbstern said:

Bottom line:  It takes a lot of turn around a franchise.  A lot.  Can it be done with the same ownership?  I honestly don't know.  If they let Douglas do his job, and he's good, the Jets will eventually be good.  If they don't let him do his job, or he's not good, they'll be bad for another decade.

solid.

[Losmeister]

3 hours ago, Rexorcism said:

hey finally got to the SB a few years ago, were kicking the Patriots’ asses with a huge, commanding lead and they blew it

and the OC is now the HC in SF where they are doing well....

but his first 2 yrs he was well under .500 ......10-22

we're the fuggin NY Jesters but we wanna instant turnaround and should fire the new HC now.

( I was nonplussed when we hired Gase. Then looked at is resume and was, "meh." and " Well who knows?"

obviously the OL is a train wreck, was last year too...preGase/Douglas)...

So...  ?????    what does it mean?   Hard to say,,.  i certainly dont have a crystal ball.....

[Rexorcism]

I said it was a funny joke, that’s a compliment. But I can see you’re not in a laughing mood. I think you’re taking this all far too seriously.

Sorry, took that one the wrong way I guess. Im used to the typical know it all Jet fans condescending comments.

[ASH1962]

On 11/4/2019 at 8:52 PM, maury77 said:

In today's NFL, the 3 most important things you need to win consistently are a good GM, good coach and a good QB. I'm still a believer in Douglas and Darnold, but Gase has to go. 

Excellent point, but what makes you believe so much in Douglas so far? I have seen nothing to this point that would make me believe he is even conscious, let alone possessing the ability to turn spam into Filet Mignon.

[Joe W. Namath]

On 11/5/2019 at 4:42 AM, Philc1 said:

Douglas is just Gase’s puppet

 

If you fire Gase you also have to fire Douglas who btw all his moves so far have stunk

 

I agree and disagree.  He is Gase's puppet.  And I dont believe these moves are on him.  Gase is the puppet master.  he is making all of these moves.

Get rid of Gase and let Douglas have a chance to run the show.  He cant do anything with gase barking orders at him.  Remember, gase hired him so right now he has to be his b!tch.

Joe Douglas can do this.  He just need gase to be gone and be given full control of the organization.

[TuscanyTile2]

On 11/4/2019 at 6:26 PM, rbstern said:

I live in Atlanta.  I'm a fair-weather Falcons fan.  Or, more accurately: The worse the Jets are, the more I'll watch the Falcons.  Unless the Falcons are a train wreck of the same magnitude at the Jets, which is currently the case.

I watched the Falcons under the Smith family ownership.  Inept.  Bad drafts, mostly bad coaching hires (Dan Reeves being the exception).  Very questionable ability to evaluate talent (they traded away rookie Brett Favre).  One or two minor shining moments, aside, they produced pretty bad football teams, year in, year out.  Not a franchise with a winning culture,

And then Arthur Blank comes along and buys the team.  As a Home Depot founder, Blank is Atlanta business royalty, with a reputation as a savvy businessman.  He's part of the 1990s Atlanta metro resugence story He expects to compete.  He expects to give the people he hires what they need to compete.  He's used to winning in the world, and right away he sets a tone of expecting to win.  He spends time learning what he needs to learn about owning an NFL franchise.  After some fits and starts, probably the most imporant lesson he learns is you need a very capable general manager, and you need to let that guy do his job.  In 2008, he hires Thomas Dmitroff, who is, first and foremost, a scout.  Over the years, Blank is involved and visible, but it is absolutely Dimitroff runing the show.  Dimitroff's first draft?  A franchise QB and a franchise left tackle.  The two most important and difficult to replace building blocks of an NFL franchise.  The Falcons have been decent at drafts and signing valuable free agents to complete their roster under Dimitroff's guidance.

The Falcons have won 3 division titles and been to the playoffs 6 times since Dimitroff took the reigns.  Yes, they are bad this, year.  Surprisingly, very bad.  That looks to be a Dan Quinn issue, more than anything else, because the team has enough talent to be competitive.

Point is, they went from a wobegonefranchise franchise, to competitive in most years that Dimitroff has been at the helm, playing winning football more often than not.  They expect to win, and people are surprised when they don't, which is a characteristic of a winning culture.

So, the Jets questions is:  Is Joe Douglas that guy?  He's a scout.  Philly developed a lot of very good talent with him running the personnel side of things.  I don't think there's any choice, and we won't know for another two, three, maybe four years whether he's Dimitroff or Maccagnan.

Bottom line:  It takes a lot of turn around a franchise.  A lot.  Can it be done with the same ownership?  I honestly don't know.  If they let Douglas do his job, and he's good, the Jets will eventually be good.  If they don't let him do his job, or he's not good, they'll be bad for another decade.

Arthur Blank is probably my favorite owner in all of the major 4 sports (he's certainly up there).  

I have to ask, though, would you rather the Falcons have lost the Superbowl the way they did or would you have preferred to not even make the Superbowl (a la the Jets)?  As a Jet fan I'd honestly rather not have made the Superbowl than lose it the way Atlanta did.  I think I'd stop being able to root for my team at that point.  Mind you, it's difficult enough to root for the Jets as it is.  But to have that piano fall your head might knock me out of the box as a football fan permanently.

[maury77]

Excellent point, but what makes you believe so much in Douglas so far? I have seen nothing to this point that would make me believe he is even conscious, let alone possessing the ability to turn spam into Filet Mignon.

Mostly blind faith as he has not had much time to do anything significant thus far. That being said, he did come to the job with an impressive resume, the Khalil signing has been a bust, however, the Lewis and Hairston trades have been solid moves.


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