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Did We Ruin Sam ?

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I've been seeing this narrative over and over so here's my take. Keep in mind, I'm the guy who is always optimistic about QB's I was about Sanchez and I was about Penny thinking Sanchez would finally 
"get it" and Penny would overcome his injuries> I was wrong.

Sure :rolleyes: we ruined the guy who consistently throws off his back foot, sees ghosts, and throws Ints to the other team with no Jets within 10 yards of the Int. If that was not bad enough he's starting to fumble again, not at an alarming rate but he does not seem to have that timer in his head as to when to just throw the ball away.

I really never liked Sam but I changed my entire outlook when we drafted him hoping I was wrong about him even though I saw red flags in his mechanics in college along with his propensity for turnovers. I figured, as I always do, give the kid a chance see what he's got .... Turns out My initial opinion was correct. I even figured since he seemed to throw good on the run that might be a thing and it was early on but now it seems he can't even do that well anymore.

Once again this could come down to the question that's always brought up about QB's does he have the brain cells to process information at a very fast pace and make the proper decision's ? It's a very rare ability found in ELITE QB's and athleticism does not factor into that equation. Great arm, great feet, big , tall, big hands all mean nothing when it comes to the ability to process information. He's going to go out vs scrub teams that don't pressure him and give every damn one of you false hope just like Sanchez and Smith then play a defense that gives him a little trouble and promptly sh*t the bed. Has Sam had a tough fought game winning drive ? A game he got beat shreds but sucked it up to bring us back ? Nah he's not Tom Brady, Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers and he will never come close to that. Some teams actually most teams don't see a QB like that in their entire existences and you know deep down that's what you want.

Even if this kid turns it around and figures it out how much do you think he could actually be ? Maybe a middle of the road QB maybe a Andy Dalton ? Forget franchise QB or elite QB, remember you can be a franchise QB for a dumb franchise thats gives you too much time but that does not make you elite by any stretch. 

I may very well get ripped for this thread but go ahead and change my mind if you can. Me? I'm going with my first instinct with these QB's I don't care if Sam is 22 hes been in this league and alreadt beginning to regress and I'm sorry but great QB's which once again is what we all want NEVER regress, they may have their struggles but regression is not an option.

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He's not ruined. He's just regressing. That's definitely a concern. The previous GM has ruined the infrastructure of the team (O-Line) and the present coach isn't very good at his job. It's a combination of coaching, and poor talent. I still think Darnold is fine in the long run but this is a critical off season coming up.

Darnold was improving steadily under Bowles lol. That shows how bad Gase has been.

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The Jets have not helped him, that's for sure, Bowles should not have been his coach to start (he had a history of going with the old vet) and not investing in Offensive Line before and after making that investment in a QB draft pick is criminal

Feels like Gase needs players to fit his scheme to be any good and I don't think Sam can wait that long - Jeremy Bates had better results after hiking in the woods for a few years

 

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If I'm honest I wanted Rosen .. but was thrilled with the Darnold selection assuming with good coaching his bad habits from college could be fixed. He was so young I thought it was a great selection.

 

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To me, he’s been one of the most talented QB’s to come out of college in the last decade. He’s in the same talent group as Luck and Wentz. 

We are dangerously close to ruining him. When a QB gets shell shocked and their brain automatically fears the rush from so much early abuse as a young QB, its all over. I’ve yet to see a QB recover from that...once they get there.

This is not all OL. Dan Orlovsky went over it in great detail how Gase’s play designs and calling are predictable and leaving Darnold out to dry, under a bad OL. Gase isn’t adapting.

NO QB under this situation could succeed. Darnold isn’t completely shot yet, but he’s definitely getting there. At the end of last year he had good footwork, pocket presence, confidence, fixed the turn overs, the whole package.

I even suggested keeping Bates as his QB coach after last year because he did such a great job with Darnold’s mechanics. He just wasn’t cut out to be a play caller. I said the mere presence of Loggains will be a detriment to Sam. I was told he had no influence and Gase would have it all covered. Regardless of how good the HC or OC is you still need good position coaches, especially with a young QB. But...oh by the way our HC/OC SUCKS.

Another year of this and we might as well just draft a new QB, because Darnold will be shot...

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At the end of last season, after four games, he was a savior. After three bad games, he's a loser. 

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4 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

To me, he’s been one of the most talented QB’s to come out of college in the last decade. He’s in the same talent group as Luck and Wentz.

Only jet fans think this.  This is 100% false.

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Did We Ruin Sam ?

UH YES!!

We brought him back to early from his MONO illness 

WITH //   awful LINE AND RECEIVERS

Oops 

I forgot the coach is 

Way over his HEAD.

 

DUH

 

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Not yet 

the footwork has to get better and the decisions have to get better 

it has to be eliminated before it becomes permanent 

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I get a laugh from the guys who went from anointing Sam as a savior to "the Jets are ruining him". This is who he was all along. The "he's only 21" and "only played QB a few years" comments were hysterical to me. Those weren't positives, they were obstacles he had to overcome. He came out before he was ready, and he is woefully lacking the fundamentals needed to be an elite QB. 

If you took emotion out of it from the start, you could see before the first Miami game last year he was exactly the same guy he was at USC. Poor mechanics , bad decision making and turnover prone with the occasional flash of talent.

That first Miami game confirmed it for me, and although I was the first here to say it, and took hell for it, a lot more people are starting to now see what I saw. The difference is they're still making excuses for him, and their heart won't let them admit what they're eyes are seeing. 

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Who knows.  Bottom line, Darnold BLOWS ....  but, when he has an average to below average game today against the attrocious giants D, i can almost guarentee all the apologists will be parading around this message board 

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10 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

I get a laugh from the guys who went from anointing Sam as a savior to "the Jets are ruining him". This is who he was all along. The "he's only 21" and "only played QB a few years" comments were hysterical to me. Those weren't positives, they were obstacles he had to overcome. He came out before he was ready, and he is woefully lacking the fundamentals needed to be an elite QB. 

If you took emotion out of it from the start, you could see before the first Miami game last year he was exactly the same guy he was at USC. Poor mechanics , bad decision making and turnover prone with the occasional flash of talent.

That first Miami game confirmed it for me, and although I was the first here to say it, and took hell for it, a lot more people are starting to now see what I saw. The difference is they're still making excuses for him, and their heart won't let them admit what they're eyes are seeing. 

Yup.  I remember watching his first game the year after the rose bowl.  Was pumped w/ anticipation that the jets might get this guy.

After a few drives, you could tell he wasnt a big time talent.  

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19 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Only jet fans think this.  This is 100% false.

Definitely not only Jets fans. And this is an opinion, making something “false” to be completely irrelevant to the topic.

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5 minutes ago, Jet hustle said:

Who knows.  Bottom line, Darnold BLOWS ....  but, when he has an average to below average game today against the attrocious giants D, i can almost guarentee all the apologists will be parading around this message board 

So are you setting yourself up an in-house excuse for a good game if he has one today?

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4 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Yup.  I remember watching his first game the year after the rose bowl.  Was pumped w/ anticipation that the jets might get this guy.

After a few drives, you could tell he wasnt a big time talent.  

Anyone that bases any opinion of any football player, at any position, based on a "couple of drives", ought to really consider whether they are qualified to comment on football players talent at all.

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4 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

So are you setting yourself up an in-house excuse for a good game if he has one today?

please god please.

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22 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

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Nope.

In Jets Land, there are two options for two scenarios.

Wins/Losses:

1) Jets Win

2) Jets came out flat/unprepared
 

Talent:

1) Very Good/Elite

2) Ruined by coaching

You see, the Jets have never really been beaten, nor made a bad draft pick.

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This place is insane

Its been THREE games since he returned vs Dallas and looked like the MVP

In 2 of those 3 games he’s completed 70% of his passes and thrown for 250+ yards

you are letting a media narrative of “regression” cloud what is actually happening 

you are letting one play cloud an entire body of work. Darnold threw the ball 39 times and completed 70%, had 2 TDs but one was incorrectly overturned which led to a dumb pick as he was trying to throw it away (by the way a blind side free rusher caused the pick). 

In mean it’s unbelievable how fickle some of you are. 

We’ve got a 22 year old QB, who just came back from mono, trying to pull this entire franchise from the grave. We all agree that this the WORST OL we have EVER seen... Did you not see how this team “functioned” with Falk/Simien? The fact that the Jets are competitive is proof positive that Darnold is a special player. 

If you exclude the NE game and extrapolate his performance through 16 a games.. Darnold season looks Ike:

4000 yards

70% comp

24 TDs 20 Ints

90 rating 

With THIS ******* team around him? That’s borderline miraculous 

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I swear, some people just sit and pray that our players fail so they can say "I TOLD YOU SO!!!" 

It is the strangest thing

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1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Nope.

In Jets Land, there are two options for two scenarios.

Wins/Losses:

1) Jets Win

2) Jets came out flat/unprepared
 

Talent:

1) Very Good/Elite

2) Ruined by coaching

You see, the Jets have never really been beaten, nor made a bad draft pick.

Jets fans want to have a franchise QB incredibly badly. There is a lot of blind faith with Sam the same way there was with Sanchez and even Geno. Heck! I knew some fans who were sold at one point on Bryce Petty. 
 

The book has not closed on Sams Jet career yet, but over the past three weeks I’ve come to grips with the reality that he’s probably not going to be the solution. 

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1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

So are you setting yourself up an in-house excuse for a good game if he has one today?

You weren't talking to me here, but I think this is the perfect opportunity for Darnold to get a good game under his belt. I predicted in the game thread he'd have a 300+ yard 3 TD day. That's how beat up and bad the Giants defense is.

I predicted a 34-27 Jets win, but with two teams as bad as these, that's just throwing darts. Who knows? The one thing I think we can safely assume is both these young QBs should be able to put up some big numbers against undermanned defenses.

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53 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

He's not ruined. He's just regressing. That's definitely a concern. The previous GM has ruined the infrastructure of the team (O-Line) and the present coach isn't very good at his job. It's a combination of coaching, and poor talent. I still think Darnold is fine in the long run but this is a critical off season coming up.

Darnold was improving steadily under Bowles lol. That shows how bad Gase has been.

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. If he is as strong mentally as he appears to be he will overcome this and persevere. That goes for all of us in any profession. 

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Take your pick of any young qb you wish, go ahead take your pick.

Put him behind this oline with our so so Wrs with a coach who is as utterly terrible as this one and he will be labelled a bust.

I mean his 1st year he had a guy who literally could not snap the football.  The center they get this year is garbage.  Guys come free 2/3 of the pass plays untouched due to awful personnel or gross formations or play calls.

No, far too early to write him off but Douglas better have a miraculous next off season.

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