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Smashmouth

Did We Ruin Sam ?

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1 hour ago, Y3k said:

This place is insane

Its been THREE games since he returned vs Dallas and looked like the MVP

In 2/3 games he’s completed 70% of his passes and thrown for 250+ yards

you are letting a media narrative of “regression” cloud what is actually happening 

We’ve got a 22 year old QB, who just came back from mono, trying to pull this entire franchise from the grave. We all agree that this the WORST OL we have EVER seen... Did you not see how this team “functioned” with Falk/Simien? The fact that the Jets are competitive is proof positive that Darnold is a special player. 

Okay nico. Welcome back.

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4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

You weren't talking to me here, but I think this is the perfect opportunity for Darnold to get a good game under his belt. I predicted in the game thread he'd have a 300+ yard 3 TD day. That's how beat up and bad the Giants defense is.

I predicted a 34-27 Jets win, but with two teams as bad as these, that's just throwing darts. Who knows? The one thing I think we can safely assume is both these young QBs should be able to put up some big numbers against undermanned defenses.

I think this is the game that the Jets play well and win. just a weird feeling. We’ll go to 2-7 and ruin draft position lol. Sam will go stupid out there and throw 280-300 yards 2 TD’s and get everyone wondering if he has the goods again. Idk what Sam will turn out to be. I’ve seen good. I’ve seen bad. I’ve seen great and i’ve flat out UGLY. I’m trying my hardest to reserve permanent judgement but I really like Burrow and Burrow has been my guy since last year. I usually stamp my amateur scouting name on a QB or two each year. I love Burrow.

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I don't think Sams been ruined and I don't think he is a bust. He is going through the process of becoming or not becoming an NFL QB. He is looking pretty bad right now but the whole team is as well. You can see he is pressing but the talent is there. Can the the Jets staff bring it out and correct his flaws? That I'm not so sure about. Darnold needs to relax and just play. Don't worry about what an insane fan base has to say, or the talking heads on the radio, or what the scorned print writer who will soon be unemployed writes. Can he block all that out and just play? He will have to if he is going to succeed here. Hopefully he can, but with insane chuckle-heads flying banners over the City and The Daily News Douche writing hit pieces and poison tweets every few hours its going to be tough. Hopefully the kid can weather the storm and come out of it stronger and tougher. Otherwise its back to the drawing board once again.

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I think we did a solid job of getting as little out of him as possible so far. Like I said, I’m sure we will do better with the next QB we draft. 

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Just now, The Crusher said:

I think we did a solid job of getting as little out of him as possible so far. Like I said, I’m sure we will do better with the next QB we draft. 

Burrow or Tua?

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1 hour ago, jetspenguin said:

dab357439cd68e689b9b310ce3b78b6f.gif

Maybe it's because I'm Italian, but this is my all time favorite comedy. No matter how many times I watch it, I still laugh like crazy.

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6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Maybe it's because I'm Italian, but this is my all time favorite comedy. No matter how many times I watch it, I still laugh like crazy.

Maybe 

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1 hour ago, Smashmouth said:

I've been seeing this narrative over and over so here's my take. Keep in mind, I'm the guy who is always optimistic about QB's I was about Sanchez and I was about Penny thinking Sanchez would finally 
"get it" and Penny would overcome his injuries> I was wrong.

Sure :rolleyes: we ruined the guy who consistently throws off his back foot, sees ghosts, and throws Ints to the other team with no Jets within 10 yards of the Int. If that was not bad enough he's starting to fumble again, not at an alarming rate but he does not seem to have that timer in his head as to when to just throw the ball away.

I really never liked Sam but I changed my entire outlook when we drafted him hoping I was wrong about him even though I saw red flags in his mechanics in college along with his propensity for turnovers. I figured, as I always do, give the kid a chance see what he's got .... Turns out My initial opinion was correct. I even figured since he seemed to throw good on the run that might be a thing and it was early on but now it seems he can't even do that well anymore.

Once again this could come down to the question that's always brought up about QB's does he have the brain cells to process information at a very fast pace and make the proper decision's ? It's a very rare ability found in ELITE QB's and athleticism does not factor into that equation. Great arm, great feet, big , tall, big hands all mean nothing when it comes to the ability to process information. He's going to go out vs scrub teams that don't pressure him and give every damn one of you false hope just like Sanchez and Smith then play a defense that gives him a little trouble and promptly sh*t the bed. Has Sam had a tough fought game winning drive ? A game he got beat shreds but sucked it up to bring us back ? Nah he's not Tom Brady, Drew Brees or Aaron Rodgers and he will never come close to that. Some teams actually most teams don't see a QB like that in their entire existences and you know deep down that's what you want.

Even if this kid turns it around and figures it out how much do you think he could actually be ? Maybe a middle of the road QB maybe a Andy Dalton ? Forget franchise QB or elite QB, remember you can be a franchise QB for a dumb franchise thats gives you too much time but that does not make you elite by any stretch. 

I may very well get ripped for this thread but go ahead and change my mind if you can. Me? I'm going with my first instinct with these QB's I don't care if Sam is 22 hes been in this league and alreadt beginning to regress and I'm sorry but great QB's which once again is what we all want NEVER regress, they may have their struggles but regression is not an option.

no.  i don't think darnold is ruined ala david carr just yet.  he can fix a lot of what he's doing even this season.  the whole point is will gase give him the instruction necessary.  i get the feeling, after listening to gase's comments after dallas, that he wasn't concerned about darnold's mechanics.  his idea is whatever it takes.  well maybe he's got to sit darnold down and get his mechanics right.  and this should reduce the turnovers.

i remember back when todd was qb.  he did pretty well with walton being oc and also the guy todd could get advice from.  all that changed when walton became hc.  those guys basically feuded on the sideline.  walton didn't hire a qb coach which is exactly what a guy like todd needed.  the word coddled comes to mind.  i think the same thing is needed with darnold.  i'm plenty tired of hearing about gase being a qb/offensive guru.  gase is the head coach.  he needs to lay those responsibilities on loggins or whoever is supposed to be calling the plays.

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15 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Maybe it's because I'm Italian, but this is my all time favorite comedy. No matter how many times I watch it, I still laugh like crazy.

I gotta tell you man, she is/was one hot babe....love, love, LOVED her in that movie

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outside of that stupid throw away pick, what exactly did you QB gurus see vs Miami that would tell you that Darnold has regressed or is “broken”?

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1 hour ago, jetspenguin said:

I gotta tell you man, she is/was one hot babe....love, love, LOVED her in that movie

She is, I agree, and the scene where she's testifying is a classic. But everyone in that movie was great weren't they?

 

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1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Maybe 

I always say my family could be on one of those reality shows. They talk exactly the way Peschi and Tomei did in that movie, and I never realized it until I moved down south, but apparently I do also.

When Everyone loves Raymond first aired, we thought his mother Marie was based on my mom. My sisters and my daughter "jokingly" call me Raymond and my mom Marie when we're all together.

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Just now, 14 in Green said:

I always say my family could be on one of those reality shows. They talk exactly the way Peschi and Tomei did in that movie, and I never realized it until I moved down south, but apparently I do also.

When Everyone loves Raymond first aired, we thought his mother Marie was based on my mom. My sisters and my daughter "jokingly" call me Raymond and my mom Marie when we're all together.

I moved to Virginia when Sopranos was popular and almost everyone I met asked  me if ever saw it.  I get it. 

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Maybe we did.  Or maybe sam is any good anymore.  Or maybe sam will look better with a better oline.

All these questions are valid.  The answer is that we simply do not know.  There is so much bad around him (OLine, WRs, coaching) that it's hard to tell how good or bad this young QB is.

It's like putting Mario Andretti in a Yugo for a car race and then saying he sucks because he came in last by 27 laps.  Should Andretti have been able to overcome the limitations around him?  What about the fact that his pit crew upgraded the tires on that Yugo halfway through the race?

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1 minute ago, jetstream23 said:

All these questions are valid.  The answer is that we simply do not know.  There is so much bad around him (OLine, WRs, coaching) that it's hard to tell how good or bad this young QB is.

It's like putting Mario Andretti in a Yugo for a car race and then saying he sucks because he came in last by 27 laps.  Should Andretti have been able to overcome the limitations around him?  What about the fact that his pit crew upgraded the tires on that Yugo halfway through the race?

Oh come on. Sam would even fit in a Yugo. Mayfield? “ Like a glove!!”. 

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2 hours ago, Ken Shroy said:

More I told you all so. Lmao

Ken I can go look up the post but this was not supposed to be an I told you so more of a dissapointment 

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I think the coaching staff could very well be ruining Sam PERMANENTLY as we speak.

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45 minutes ago, Y3k said:

outside of that stupid throw away pick, what exactly did you QB gurus see vs Miami that would tell you that Darnold has regressed or is “broken”?

The fact that he couldn’t move the ball down the field consistently against that defense is alarming.

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39 minutes ago, Y3k said:

outside of that stupid throw away pick, what exactly did you QB gurus see vs Miami that would tell you that Darnold has regressed or is “broken”?

Can't just judge it on one game. So far this year he's had 1 good game against a pretty good Dallas Defense so if it can happen in one game vs a good defense why not in other games vs lesser defenses ? 

If the O-line can't block and they suck so bad then throw the ball away every time your under pressure and force the issue to get the OL replaced which I think Joe Douglas is going to do. More than this being an OL problem I think it's more scheme, since most of our issues have been free rushers at the QB that someone missed. They are not getting physically beat they are getting out schemed and it seems obvious to me someone whether it be the coaches the OL or the QB sh*ts not getting done. Honestly in this case we really have no way of knowing because we don't know the play that's called and if its being executed correctly from the start.

All that being said Sam is making bad choices at this stage and contrary to what he has said he is making the same mistakes over and over.

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4 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I think the coaching staff could very well be ruining Sam PERMANENTLY as we speak.

you very well may be correct but this is the Jets MO for the past 18 years so are we just ****ed once again ? I felt a defensive minded HC ruined Sanchez early in his career not crazy to think our Offensive minded HC just sucks

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48 minutes ago, Y3k said:

outside of that stupid throw away pick, what exactly did you QB gurus see vs Miami that would tell you that Darnold has regressed or is “broken”?

What a foolish thing to actually ask. That stupid throw away pick is EXACTLY why he has regressed. You don't get to separate him from his mistakes and act as if it didn't happen.

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1 minute ago, Smashmouth said:

you very well may be correct but this is the Jets MO for the past 18 years so are we just ****ed once again ? I felt a defensive minded HC ruined Sanchez early in his career not crazy to think our Offensive minded HC just sucks

Very true Sir.... We are POWERLESS to prevent the damage this coaching staff that you and I wouldn't even trust to clean our toilets is doing right now as we speak in real time.

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2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

I get a laugh from the guys who went from anointing Sam as a savior to "the Jets are ruining him". This is who he was all along. The "he's only 21" and "only played QB a few years" comments were hysterical to me. Those weren't positives, they were obstacles he had to overcome. He came out before he was ready, and he is woefully lacking the fundamentals needed to be an elite QB. 

If you took emotion out of it from the start, you could see before the first Miami game last year he was exactly the same guy he was at USC. Poor mechanics , bad decision making and turnover prone with the occasional flash of talent.

That first Miami game confirmed it for me, and although I was the first here to say it, and took hell for it, a lot more people are starting to now see what I saw. The difference is they're still making excuses for him, and their heart won't let them admit what they're eyes are seeing. 

Agreed

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If he keeps playing the way he has since the Cowboys game, then yes. We all wanted him to take that next step, but he is going backwards.

Firing Gase will mean he has his 4th coordinator in 4 years, a sure fire bet to stunt his development even further. At this point it will be a near miracle if he turns out to be the guy we thought he might be during the final 4 games last year

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3 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Sure :rolleyes: we ruined the guy who consistently throws off his back foot, sees ghosts, and throws Ints to the other team with no Jets within 10 yards of the Int. If that was not bad enough he's starting to fumble again, not at an alarming rate but he does not seem to have that timer in his head as to when to just throw the ball away.

in one of these many threads i admitted that JokeNation overly influenced me.

after he blew the 1st game v Bills by missing a wide open Robby for the win...and i looked at his mechanics on that throw...    that internal " WTF?" that I had about some of his horrible 1st year INTs  rang like a fire alarm. then i went back and looked at pre-draft stuff. and that was that. his mechanics are broken. they've always been poor. 

he'll make a number of good to excellent throws that make you go, "wow!" and you start to believe that the bad stuff is anomalous. its not. 

he needs ALOTTA improvement. I threw the name Alex Smith out there. who struggled mightily for years.

Smash just named Dalton. We'll see, we'll see. As of now...  it's FUGLY.

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I gotta tell you man, she is/was one hot babe....love, love, LOVED her in that movie
Marissa Tomei
Or
Amy Adams

Deep Thoughts

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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He isn’t ruined...the talent is obvious. We are hurting him though. His first two years he has had to deal with horrendous olines and coaching.  This coming draft and offseason they need to focus entirely on the oline and secondary

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1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

Marissa Tomei
Or
Amy Adams

emoji848.png Deep Thoughts

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 

Marissa Tomei is so hot. I've long had a thing for her, and she has aged so well....

Oh yeah, Darnold NOT already ruined.

 

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2 minutes ago, TheClashFan said:

Marissa Tomei is so hot. I've long had a thing for her, and she has aged so well....

Oh yeah, Darnold NOT already ruined.

 

Marisa Tomei is insane.  Watch the movie, “Befor the Devil knows you are dead”. Killer body she had lol.  I agree about Sam he will be fine as long as we build correctly around him

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