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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So because Macc sucked at his job, tanking for a higher pick is bad?  Joe Douglas is the GM now.  I'd prefer to assume he's good at his job and give him as many picks as possible, with the highest pick slot possible, in an otherwise lost season.  

First off, players do not tank.  we are just discussing whether it would be beneficial for the Jets to get a higher pick, or get Sam some more progression/wins.  Players are basically personal contractors; if they "tank" it shows, and their value decreases, and their next contract will suffer as a result.  Now when an organization (like the Dolphins) sells all your good pieces, that is a group trying to tank.  but watch those fins last week and this week:  they are trying to win!!

I got off subject here:  I thinking tanking/discussing tanking at / before week 10 is absolutely ludicrous!!  I was on board with tanking last year after the Houston game.  Sam came back to be the youngest QB in NFL history to lead a 4th Qtr comeback win against the Bills, and then played extremely well in a loss to Houston.  At that point, the wins didn't matter as much as him playing well and Jets losing.

But now?  the Pats absolutely destroyed his confidence IMHO.  He has gotten better and better each week since.  a little mind you, but still he is getting better.  I think he must be feeling much more confident after yesterday.  Go and beat the skins and it will continue.

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Lol. Danny Dimes—who everyone was mocking a week ago—hangs 4 TDs on us with a chance to tie at the end and suddenly we are going to go on a run. The more likely scenario is we don’t win two straight this season.

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22 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Because nobody wanted to move up for Quinnen Williams.  There were no QB's people wanted.  If we had the # 1 pick, you can be sure we would have been fielding calls from the Cardinals to get Kyler Murray.  

This year's upcoming QB class appears to have several guys worth taking early in the 1st.  I'd like to be in a position to trade to a QB-needy team with a top QB still on the board.  Just once, I'd like to be that team multiple teams are calling to acquire our pick.  

And the idea of tanking by losing to shltty teams is wrong because think that in April there could be a trade.

Teams don’t trade so that they can move up and draft a QB but we should tank to possibly trade to someone who may need one and likes who’s available 

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15 minutes ago, Legend Killa7 said:

First off, players do not tank.  we are just discussing whether it would be beneficial for the Jets to get a higher pick, or get Sam some more progression/wins.  Players are basically personal contractors; if they "tank" it shows, and their value decreases, and their next contract will suffer as a result.  Now when an organization (like the Dolphins) sells all your good pieces, that is a group trying to tank.  but watch those fins last week and this week:  they are trying to win!!

I got off subject here:  I thinking tanking/discussing tanking at / before week 10 is absolutely ludicrous!!  I was on board with tanking last year after the Houston game.  Sam came back to be the youngest QB in NFL history to lead a 4th Qtr comeback win against the Bills, and then played extremely well in a loss to Houston.  At that point, the wins didn't matter as much as him playing well and Jets losing.

But now?  the Pats absolutely destroyed his confidence IMHO.  He has gotten better and better each week since.  a little mind you, but still he is getting better.  I think he must be feeling much more confident after yesterday.  Go and beat the skins and it will continue.

 

Yes, I'm well aware tanks are front office-driven.  There's really nothing Joe Douglas could do to get this team to tank.  He had his chance at the trade deadline.  Trading away Jamal Adams, Robby Anderson, and/or Le'Veon would have cemented a tank effort.

The Dolphins did their best to tank by moving as many players as possible.  But then Fitzmagic happened.  

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18 minutes ago, DoubleDown said:

It doesn't matter where you draft.  It matters who you pick.  

Sometimes it does.  If you pick 1-2 and a QB is sitting there that teams want, you can get three first rounders out of that.  If you pick 3rd in a 2-QB draft, you're out of luck.  

Picking 1st rather than picking 3rd could have impacted our fortunes greatly last draft.

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1 hour ago, Bruce Harper said:

Not everyone will agree but I would rather have Darnold finish strong and have a 6-10 or 7-9 record than lose out and get the number one pick.  I need to see progress and confirmation that we have our guy at QB.  Don't need a top five pick to get a stud olineman.

This right here is how I feel after yesterday’s win. Had we lost, I’d wanna lose out bitch at 2-7 and showing signs of life even against a sh*t Giants team, we won’t be losing out unless Sam goes down. And I’d rather win 7 than 3. 

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You can also tank for a high pick so you can trade down to a QB-needy team for three first rounders.  I like that option.

My ideal scenario is Darnold playing great but we lose a lot of shootouts.    

Thats ideal for us fans.  Players need to win.  Playing awesome and not finishing will be more detrimental to players.  Winning is important to fans for hope.

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18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Sometimes it does.  If you pick 1-2 and a QB is sitting there that teams want, you can get three first rounders out of that.  If you pick 3rd in a 2-QB draft, you're out of luck.  

Picking 1st rather than picking 3rd could have impacted our fortunes greatly last draft.

We were never ever gonna get the top pick. Our second half schedule is way too soft no matter how bad we have played

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12 minutes ago, DJF71 said:

Thats ideal for us fans.  Players need to win.  Playing awesome and not finishing will be more detrimental to players.  Winning is important to fans for hope.

A lot of these players won't be here next season, regardless.  I don't care much about that.  The only virtual locks to be on the team in 2020 are the following:

  • Sam Darnold
  • CJ Mosley
  • Quinnen Williams
  • Jordan Jenkins (IF we re-sign him, which I expect we will)
  • Marcus Maye
  • Henry Anderson
  • Jamison Crowder
  • Chris Herndon
  • Nathan Shepherd
  • Chuma Edoga (NOT as a starter)
  • Nate Hairston (based on draft capital we used to acquire him)
  • Blessuan Austin
  • Blake Cashman

 

That's it.  13 players.  We will have as many as 40 new players on next year's roster.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A lot of these players won't be here next season, regardless.  I don't care much about that.  The only virtual locks to be on the team in 2020 are the following:

  • Sam Darnold
  • CJ Mosley
  • Quinnen Williams
  • Jordan Jenkins (IF we re-sign him, which I expect we will)
  • Marcus Maye
  • Henry Anderson
  • Jamison Crowder
  • Chris Herndon
  • Nathan Shepherd
  • Chuma Edoga (NOT as a starter)
  • Nate Hairston (based on draft capital we used to acquire him)
  • Blessuan Austin
  • Blake Cashman

 

That's it.  13 players.  We will have as many as 40 new players on next year's roster.

JD is that you or is this AG. 

No way in hell the NY Jets bring in 40 new players. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

So we've reached that point in the season already, where the debate between meaningless trash wins vs. future draft capital starts. 

9 games in, barely halfway thru the season, and here we are.  What bad option is best is now our main topic.

I'd like two things:

1. To see Darnold play well.

2. To see Gase get fired at seasons end.

Whatever outcome gets us these two things is what I want.

 

Unfortunately, I don't see how both are possible.   Darnold playing well will translate into a few wins, and based on their soft schedule, if the Jets end up with a 4-4 second half of the season, the dopey owners will think that Gase has the answers.  

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This team has two wins and one of them is against another team with two wins who lost by one TD with three second string OL. I enjoyed the win yesterday but let's be real here. 

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5 hours ago, Warfish said:

So we've reached that point in the season already, where the debate between meaningless trash wins vs. future draft capital starts. 

9 games in, barely halfway thru the season, and here we are.  What bad option is best is now our main topic.

I'd like two things:

1. To see Darnold play well.

2. To see Gase get fired at seasons end.

Whatever outcome gets us these two things is what I want.

I don't put a lot of value in trash-time, no-pressure, already-eliminated-in-all-realistic-ways, wins.  Always nice, as a fan, to win.  Doesn't do much for the team's future, but more fun to watch.  With that said, I don;t want our stupid owners thinking Gase is great and should be retained for beating teams just as horrible as us.

I lean to wins, but I am truly sick of having to think this way this early every year, and will hate watching Gase the next four years because he went 6-10 instead of 2-14.  /shrug.

Only issue is unless there is a clear cut great coach for a replacement, we can't keep pulling the rug out from Darnold's feet with a new HC and offensive direction/system. It is affecting his growth and we cannot afford it. he is now in the last 3 years run 3 different offenses in the last year at USC, last year with Bates, and this year with Gase. What do we want a 4th offensive system for him that is new next year?. He is the most important part of this team right now. I am sorry, outside of the ungodly amount of injuries(which has also contributed greatly to most of the losses), Gase is not showing he can't run the team as HC. I agree with CJohnson that Gase should come back next year less of the entire rest of this season every game showing bad execution by Sammy and utterly bad losses.

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There's not a dogs ass chance in hell we make the Postseason. We'd have to win out and thats only 9-7. Usually in the afc you must have atleast 10 wins. Pats swept us and Miami and Bills have already beat us once. They might sweep us as well. Just don't see us beating Baltimore or Pitt either. Hell, even Oakland should whip us.

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7 minutes ago, TNJet said:

There's not a dogs ass chance in hell we make the Postseason. We'd have to win out and thats only 9-7. Usually in the afc you must have atleast 10 wins. Pats swept us and Miami and Bills have already beat us once. They might sweep us as well. Just don't see us beating Baltimore or Pitt either. Hell, even Oakland should whip us.

I remember the Browns making the playoffs one season with Bernie Kosar with an 8-8 record.

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3 minutes ago, Jet Fan RI said:

I remember the Browns making the playoffs one season with Bernie Kosar with an 8-8 record.

We can probably win the NFC East that way, but I doubt we go to playoffs in the AFC without 10-6 record. Probably 11-5 with our 0-6 AFC record.

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24 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

Only issue is unless there is a clear cut great coach for a replacement, we can't keep pulling the rug out from Darnold's feet with a new HC and offensive direction/system. It is affecting his growth and we cannot afford it. he is now in the last 3 years run 3 different offenses in the last year at USC, last year with Bates, and this year with Gase. What do we want a 4th offensive system for him that is new next year?.

i.e. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I do not believe in Gase.  Therefore Darnold, IMO, is better off under "Theoretical HC/OC #4" than under Gase.

But your point has merit.  Just not enough merit, IMO, to want to retain Gase.

24 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

He is the most important part of this team right now. I am sorry, outside of the ungodly amount of injuries(which has also contributed greatly to most of the losses), Gase is not showing he can't run the team as HC.

Agree to disagree, I've seen absolutely nothing of worth from Gase in 2019.  Not a single thing.

24 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

I agree with CJohnson that Gase should come back next year less of the entire rest of this season every game showing bad execution by Sammy and utterly bad losses.

I expect that is what will happen.  Not just 2020, but 2021 as well.  I don't like it, but such is life.

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42 minutes ago, Jet Fan RI said:

I remember the Browns making the playoffs one season with Bernie Kosar with an 8-8 record.

30 years ago yeah. 10 wins minimum the last decade.

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15 minutes ago, TNJet said:

30 years ago yeah. 10 wins minimum the last decade.

The browns won their division with an 8-8 record, Seattle won their division with a 7-9 record. It's harder to do for a WC.  I believe only the 91 Jets and 06 Giants won WCs at 8-8.

 

As far as "10 wins minimum" goes with WC teams- Tennessee and Buffalo made it 2 years ago with 9 wins, 

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A lot of these players won't be here next season, regardless.  I don't care much about that.  The only virtual locks to be on the team in 2020 are the following:

  • Sam Darnold
  • CJ Mosley
  • Quinnen Williams
  • Jordan Jenkins (IF we re-sign him, which I expect we will)
  • Marcus Maye
  • Henry Anderson
  • Jamison Crowder
  • Chris Herndon
  • Nathan Shepherd
  • Chuma Edoga (NOT as a starter)
  • Nate Hairston (based on draft capital we used to acquire him)
  • Blessuan Austin
  • Blake Cashman

 

That's it.  13 players.  We will have as many as 40 new players on next year's roster.

No Foley Fat? 

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Just now, TNJet said:

No Foley Fat? 

I only listed guys I view to be "locks".  There's quite a few role players who might be back next year but they're far from locks.  

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

I only listed guys I view to be "locks".  There's quite a few role players who might be back next year but they're far from locks.  

Fatukasi and Phillips have been our best Defensive line guys.

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6 minutes ago, TNJet said:

Fatukasi and Phillips have been our best Defensive line guys.

Yes they have been.  That doesn't make them locks to be back, even if they're under contract thru 2021.  Douglas may want to bring in some DL from the Ravens or Eagles.  

The point wasn't to hash out next year's roster down to the nitty gritty.  The point was to suggest this roster is going to have a ton of turnover, whether 13 of the current players come back or 30.  So I wouldn't get invested emotionally in this squad "learning to win".  

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6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

A lot of these players won't be here next season, regardless.  I don't care much about that.  The only virtual locks to be on the team in 2020 are the following:

  • Sam Darnold
  • CJ Mosley
  • Quinnen Williams
  • Jordan Jenkins (IF we re-sign him, which I expect we will)
  • Marcus Maye
  • Henry Anderson
  • Jamison Crowder
  • Chris Herndon
  • Nathan Shepherd
  • Chuma Edoga (NOT as a starter)
  • Nate Hairston (based on draft capital we used to acquire him)
  • Blessuan Austin
  • Blake Cashman

 

That's it.  13 players.  We will have as many as 40 new players on next year's roster.

40?!  I think that's stretching the limits of what's possible from a player personnel stand point.  We already blew our was in FA last year.

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40?!  I think that's stretching the limits of what's possible from a player personnel stand point.  We already blew our was in FA last year.



Tell me which of those 40 players we’d actually miss?

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 


Tell me which of those 40 players we’d actually miss?

 

 

7 players in the draft.  3 or so in UDFA (if we are lucky)  maybe another 4 to 6 in FA and trades.... and that's before camp.  How the hell are we supposed to pick up 40?  I'm just bring logical.  That much turnover only happens when you hold like tryouts.

.  

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7 players in the draft.  3 or so in UDFA (if we are lucky)  maybe another 4 to 6 in FA and trades.... and that's before camp.  How the hell are we supposed to pick up 40?  I'm just bring logical.  That much turnover only happens when you hold like tryouts.
.  


UDFA’s.

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That stick?  Wow.  It must be a real good year in CFB.


I’m having some fun with you. I don’t expect 40 new players. I’m saying there are 40 players on this roster that are not locks to be back.

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


I’m having some fun with you. I don’t expect 40 new players. I’m saying there are 40 players on this roster that are not locks to be back.

 

I think we have some bad players and sh*t depth.  But our coaching staff is terrible.  I dont expect Edoga too take his head away from a bongo when he has to listen to Pollack try developing him as a player.  

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