The non-controversial, not-the-place-to-snowflake, Jets are doing their due diligence on Kaepernick thread

[kevinc855]

11 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

Do I agree that he dropped the ball with his opportunity to address the problem that caused him to take a knee? Absolutely. Honestly, he probably didnt expect the degree of backlash that he received. I think do a degree he underestimated how things are actually working. However, most of what I hear folks say surrounding Kaep is nothing more than world view construct and not reality. It's not like he controls the media, the articles, journalist or reporters.

The highlighted above at a glance are valid questions. It's not like Colin is out in the hood. I'll ignore the curing cancer bit. The bottomline is this. Colin isnt in the hood, but he seemed to show concern and compassion for things that was going on in these neighborhood's which is pervasive and systematic. Here is where the problem comes in. 

Folks who either arent Colin or have no adequate or deep connection to these type of neighborhood's generally based their view on these areas based on what they've been taught...their understanding of these areas and the people who live there from a distance. This is where people's world social-view come into play. 

There was a comment that @Jet_Engine1 made in the first Kaep thread, that on the surface would make sense if you're dealing with world views and not one's reality, which could be different from yours. He mentioned the dangers of being a police officer, which generally is an absolute fact. But then he went on to say something that shows the difference in world view and where the lack of understanding reality comes into play. He said "They deal with a populace that has a large percent that is trained to hate them". It's clear that he couldnt be talking about the overall populace, because if that was the fact than folks wouldnt have gotten so upset over Colin's socks, since they would be trained to hate them. However, on a deeper level, what Engine never mentioned was the reason behind such training. That would force one to deal with both sides of the reality, not just one. But in order to justify the continuous treatment of a group, you can never view that group as equals or human. That's been a useful tool for centuries. Back to this in a moment. 

 

See, in that same thread @DRJETS made a statement saying "Don’t be surprised, there are still people who value this country more than anything". And I believe that to also be fact, but like Engine's statement, neither are a reflection of those who grew up in these neighborhood's given that their reality and history isnt the same as those who's reality would make such statements. 

The problem isnt the reality of Engine or DrJets, the problem is accepting their reality while ignoring others, and instead accept a world view of these folks that these folks arent narrating. What do I mean? Engine made this statement "But the discussion will NEVER be serious unless BOTH sides take accountability for their actions, it cant be a one way street. And the Police (Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, or whatever) WILL treat a 19 year old black kid with dreads and saggy pants driving an unregistered car a certain way as long as that specific demographic is far and away the most prevalent, statistically and real-world, Violent Criminal in the City." The problem with this statement is this. It's impossible to know if the kid driving the car even has his pants sagging since he's sitting down in a car driving. This proves my point about "folks world view". What Engine is showing is that what police anticipate when they see a kid in a car are saggy pants probably driving an unregistered car. And though neither of those acts (saggy pants, unregistered vehicle) are even violent, noticed how he concluded with "This is how police will treat this person based on him fitting a statistic as being the most violent criminal in the city" though in reality, it's probably a 19 year old kid driving a car maybe with some saggy pants. This very statement presented by Engine explains why folks like myself and others have been approached with such high end aggression in our own neighborhood's by police, who in their minds are anticipating the most violent criminal in the city...when all I did was head home after work, for example...not even with saggy pants. And I dont even have to mention the history of this nation to see how ridiculous it would be for some 19 year old kid who's a descendant of the captivity to be considered the most "violent person" in any city in the US, given it's history. That world view is revisionist, at best...which again shows that though he starts off as "both sides having to take accountability for their actions", it usually ends with the 19 year old being the most violent person in the city, yet the assumed most violent person in the city always seems to get his ass handed to him the the police. The narrative never changes, just the generation.

See, I grew up in these type of ghetto's and seen how things really get down. Not just some world view or philosophy in order to justify actions, but the reality from the other side. Are there criminals in neighborhood's like mine? Yes. Violent? yes. Police should deal with them accordingly. However, there's alot of sh*t that goes down in these neighborhood's that aren't based on antagonizing officers and there are no cameras around to catch it, but only the word of some 19 year old black inner-city kid with dreads vs the Cops that did some sh*t they werent supposed to do. When folks speak out about that, The folks who proclaim to love their country and their countrymen dont come looking to get to the bottom of things for their countrymen. What we get are puppets on strings such as Sharpton or Jackson looking to sell some more race tickets in order to further encourage the division which is why the US is in the situation that it is. 

 

The bottomline, what folks need to consider outside of their world view, is that though there are alot of people who value their country more than anything, there are a ton of people who simply and unfortunately have to tolerate that country. And the only reason why they're an American is because that's where their captivity placed them. That's the real. So when folks talk about a large percentage of folks trained to hate their overseers, it's not personal. It's not the "person", it's the history of the system that is being constantly ignored, and when folks bring light to it folks get pissed that folks dont love their oppression (while we're taught to empathize with others oppression, which is fine, yet that same society couldnt care less about ours which is current and ongoing), and they use their world views about a people that they usually have no experience with on a human level, or if there were any sort of contact it was either watching football for entertainment or probably being an officer locking up some criminals with saggy pants, and then that view is somehow generally spread upon an entire group of people. So when one from this group is falsely injured, "spin city" then occurs. Example: The news will never say "police shoots unarmed American" , but instead you'll hear "police shoots unarmed black kid or african american". It's all word magic. How? Folks who dont associate as being african american wont associate themselves with the victim. It reinforces the division. Furthermore, if you only view them as some 19 year hold saggy pants wearing kid with dread in an unregistered car who are the most violent people in your city, it reinforces that division and removes the empathy. Once that happens, there is no talking to folks who arent listening, especially when there's oppression happening but their too busy looking at those oppressed as a group as the criminal.

What I've grown to learn is that the world isn't a dictionary, but a thesaurus, and the more you can muddy the water with words the more you can confuse. The world is ran on manufactured world view or perspective, and the views of the dominating class will always prevail because we live in an evolution-based society, and the philosophy is "only the strongest survive". In a society like this, I dont expect folks overseeing to empathize, because they see these humans the way a human would see a roach or an ant. It's not that we hate roaches and ants, they're just pest to humans and we have no qualms about stepping on one and killing it. Wont lose any sleep at all. This is the indoctrination in a nutshell. 

I know that this isn't worth arguing over given that this is all prophecy anyway (I know philosophy of evolution is ridiculous. The oppression proves it), but I write this for those who come from similar neighborhood's, having similar backgrounds or connections to those backgrounds, know that the trouble and the issues that plague these areas isn't just some unfortunate underprivileged happenstance. There are a few here that clearly understand and see the difference, which further shows that racism and racial hatred isnt even real, just an idea just like "black" is an idea. With that said, folks generally should not expect anyone that have these sorts of world views to empathize. To a degree its not their fault, because they've gone through the culture training that we've all gone through who were raised in the States, we're just on different sides. The world has been taught not to value our life, and we received the same training, which is why many of my brothers and sisters dont value their own life (gang life etc). This is taught though your society. Everyone is being oppressed through the manufacturing folks world view, as well as manufacturing culture ("black" people) in order to promote division in order to keep our eyes off of The Adversary. 

I will say that if genuine, I do appreciate Colin for trying to provide a voice for folks who the country either ignores or makes their plight into a racial thing by making compromised race baiters the leaders over these neighborhood's in order to always keep it as a black/white thing and NEVER a fellow countrymen thing. That fact right there is why folks of different realities view the country differently, because it is different. The realities are not the same. At the same time, folks with the wisdom and the ability to understand need not to get caught up in the reactions of folks expressing their world view. They're simply expressing their learnt understanding, and not your reality based on what you're experiencing. Instead, start working on yourself in order to unlearn alot of the garbage that we've learned, such as every "ism", but start learning how things are being played. Especially us who are the descendants of the diaspora. You want things to change? stop calling yourself black or even african american, negro, colored or any other byword I havent mentioned and find out where you're from. And when you find out, hold tight to it and follow the directions. Bunny Wailer and Bob Marley told you for 40 something years, but I understand. We've learned not to respect ourselves, so why would we take our own words as some sort of authority? 

 

 

Triggered......

[nyjunc]

This is all about Chris Johnson trying to get in good with the players.  Same thing as 2-3 years ago.  There's a better chance we don't lose a game for the next 5 years than the Jets signing Colin Kaepernick.

[Bruce Harper]

I’m not a hater but I can see all the non-sports articles on “why are they not playing this hero over that young guy who is making all these mistakes?” Double the national press for every game. No thanks.


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[CTM]

46 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

6 percent of the population commits 50 percent of the murders. 62 percent of African American children grow up in a single parent household. Don't really need to grow up in the hood to see this is a problem. God FORBID someone should take a sexy sexy knee about this. 

 

43 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Twice as many white people are killed by cops than black people. That's a fact. The idea that there are bands of racist cops hunting for blacks is disgusting and ignorant. Colin Kaepernick is an idiot, a liar and a sh*tty QB.

The problem with this stuff is theres a long history of inequity driving it and it's hard to discuss any of it without it getting heated. There are without a doubt a significant number of  racist cops though, I hope nobody would argue otherwise (not all or even most but enough that it certainly has a noticable impact) . Even if you remove race completely and talk about economic reasons for crime you still can't get away from the fact that more AA grow up in poverty and that's directly related to this countries history even if you just look at it solely from generational wealth perspective. (Families tend to do better and acquire familial wealth over generations)

The breakdown of the family is a large issue though,in all communities. 50 years ago the caucasian single parent rate was in the single digits where as AA rate was in the low 20's I believe. Both groups have skyrocketed since(3x increase) and the reality is that many negative life outcomes correlate well with being raised in a single parent household (lifetime earnings, education level, substance abuse rates, incarceration rates, life expectancy (I think), etc) . Its too hard for 1 person to work and raise children + last I looked theres significant evidence to suggest male and female approaches to parenthood compliment one another in rounding out a child. This is a huge shift we've seen in society that occured very rapidly that we are seeing the impact of now.

Even this however gets heated as what % of responsibility does social change vs the growth of government vs the entire economic system play into these changes? They all contribute. We also cant ignore theres been positives. I.e. its certainly better for women to have more options today and not be expected to be a stay at home mom who is then trapped by economics and culture into staying married and raising kids. Maybe its also true that the older construct was better for kids rather than letting TV/internet and government raise them like we have so much of today but I dont think that warrants regressing. Most things arent all good or all bad and its unfortunate we as a society seem to be finding ourselves debating from these extremes more and more frequently. (Even worse both sides are well armed with statistics and talking points much of which are shallow, contextually inaccurate or just plain wrong)

 

[Gastineau Lives]

9 minutes ago, CTM said:

 

The problem with this stuff is theres a long history of inequity driving it and it's hard to discuss any of it without it getting heated so I'm sure Max will appreciate it if we dont try. There are without a doubt a significant number of  racist cops though, I hope nobody would argue otherwise (not all or even most but enough that it certainly has a noticable impact) . Even if you remove race completely and talk about economic reasons for crime you still can't get away from the fact that more AA grow up in poverty and that's directly related to this countries history even if you just look at it soleky from generational wealth perspective. (Families tend to do better and acquire familial wealth over generations)

The breakdown of the family is a large problem though,in all communities. 50 years ago the caucasian single parent rate was in the single digits where as AA rate was in the low 20's I believe. Both groups have skyrocketed since(3x increase) and the reality is that many negative life outcomes correlate well with being raised in a single parent household (lifetime earnings, education level, substance abuse rates, incarceration rates, life expectancy (I think), etc) . Its too hard for 1 person to work and raise children + last I looked theres significant evidence to suggest male and female approaches to parenthood compliment one another in rounding out a child. This is a huge shift we've seen in society that occured very rapidly that we are seeing the impact of now.

Even this however gets heated as what % of responsibility does social change vs the growth of government vs the entire economic system play into these changes? They all contribute. We also cant ignore theres been positives. I.e. its certainly better for women to have more options today and not be expected to be a stay at home mom who is then trapped by economics and culture into staying married and raising kids. Maybe its also true that the older construct was better for kids rather than letting TV/internet and government raise them like we have so much of today but I dont think that warrants regressing. Most things arent all good or all bad and its unfortunate we as a society seem to be finding ourselves debating from these extremes more and more frequently. (Even worse both sides are well armed with statistics and talking points much of which are shallow, contextually inaccurate or just plain wrong)

 

For me the crux of the problem is the resentment bred by the idea that complex issues can be dealt with in racist/not racist terms and therefore fixed easily and instantly. It does no one any good.

[CTM]

5 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

For me the crux of the problem is the resentment bred by the idea that complex issues can be dealt with in racist/not racist terms and therefore fixed easily. It does no one any good.

Sure but its equally shallow to just bark out some stats like they are an ace in the hole like you did, no?  Both things can be and likely are true. These are hugely complicated issues being debated loudly by people who likely have a very surface level understanding of them

[Gastineau Lives]

5 minutes ago, CTM said:

Sure but its equally shallow to just bark out some stats like they are an ace in the hole like you did, no?  Both things can be and likely are true. These are hugely complicated issues being debated loudly by people who likely have a very surface level understanding of them

It's only shallow if unaddressed. Getting on one knee is a shallow gesture, no? It's kind of like tying your shoe except, what, holy?

I've got other things I'd rather do than post a thesis paper/passion play about what's ailing modern American society.

[jeremy2020]

20 hours ago, section314 said:

For what it's worth, Stephen A. Smith had an interesting take on all this. He believes that Kaep doesn't want to play, he just wants to be a martyr.

Stephen Smith has never had an interesting take on anything. Ever.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

57 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Twice as many white people are killed by cops than black people. That's a fact.

Black people are less than 15% of the population. That is also a fact. You're throwing these numbers out without the faintest idea that they completely contradict your argument. Is it any wonder that the other side needs to resort to hysterics to get its point across?

[Scott Dierking]

Well, it was fun while it lasted.

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I've got other things I'd rather do than post a thesis paper/passion play about what's ailing modern American society.

See, but not everyone has the ability to just go right back into their bubble.  Meanwhile my wife has woken up terrified at 2 AM some nights worried about her older brother (both black) and what could happen at a traffic stop or getting pulled over on a moving violation.  Not trying to pull the "I have a black friend" card here, just saying that this is something I don't have to worry much about in terms of my own personal safety while others do.  

[Gastineau Lives]

3 minutes ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Black people are less than 15% of the population. That is also a fact. You're throwing these numbers out without the faintest idea that they completely contradict your argument. Is it any wonder that the other side needs to resort to hysterics to get its point across?

You're smarter than this. Lmao unless you're not.

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

See, but not everyone has the ability to just go right back into their bubble.  Meanwhile my wife has woken up terrified at 2 AM some nights worried about her older brother (both black) and what could happen at a traffic stop or getting pulled over on a moving violation.  Not trying to pull the "I have a black friend" card here, just saying that this is something I don't have to worry much about in terms of my own personal safety while others do.  

And where does that blame rest? Ol' Whitey, I bet.

[Philc1]

9 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Stephen Smith has never had an interesting take on anything. Ever.

His life partner Max Kellerman is even dumber

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

You're smarter than this. Lmao unless you're not.

Ask an adult.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

And where does that blame rest? Ol' Whitey, I bet.

Black cops treat black kids they arrest poorly in many cases as well.  So no.  

[Gastineau Lives]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

See, but not everyone has the ability to just go right back into their bubble.  Meanwhile my wife has woken up terrified at 2 AM some nights worried about her older brother (both black) and what could happen at a traffic stop or getting pulled over on a moving violation.  Not trying to pull the "I have a black friend" card here, just saying that this is something I don't have to worry much about in terms of my own personal safety while others do.  

And your wife's fear is based on what, facts?

[Philc1]

16 hours ago, August said:

Kaepernick>>David Fales 

And probably 2/3 of the league’s backups 

 

same coulda been said for Tim Tebow about 6 years ago

 

The NFL is entertainment.  Do you want to be an entertainer or do you want to be an activist?

 

That said, would I have rather had Kaepernick than Falk from weeks 2-4?  Sure

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

And your wife's fear is based on what, facts?

Absolutely.  

 

 In an analysis of national police-­shootings data from 2011–14, for example, Cody T. Ross, a doctoral student in anthropology at the University of California, Davis, concluded there is "evidence of a significant bias in the killing of unarmed black Americans relative to unarmed white Americans." The probability of being black, unarmed and shot by police is about 3.5 times the probability of being white, unarmed and shot by police, he found (PLOS One, 2015). 

 

Fryer did, however, find that black civilians are more likely to experience other types of force, including being handcuffed without arrest, ­pepper-sprayed or pushed to the ground by an officer (National Bureau of Economic Research, 2016).

 

Other data show that black people are also more likely to be stopped by police. Stanford University social psychologist Jennifer Eberhardt, PhD, and colleagues analyzed data from the police department in Oakland, California, and found that while black residents make up 28 percent of the Oakland population, they accounted for 60 percent of police stops. What's more, black men were four times more likely than white men to be searched during a traffic stop, even though officers were no more likely to recover contraband when searching black suspects (Stanford SPARQ, 2016).

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Ask an adult.

Yup, and police interactions and the nature of them are all proportionate, correct?

[The Crusher]

It’s too far gone and I refuse to read this shit to find Who started the political talk. Yet, interesting enough the little bit I read I can pretty much guess what the person would say after I read their screen name. I’ve decided not to ban anyone. Just take a break from it for a bit.