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Patriot Killa

Sam Darnold isn’t broken.

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5 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Couple of reasons. You're right, he hasn't played well this season, but I think he will finish strong (like Sam) do to an easier schedule.

First, he played really well last year, despite going through an in season coaching change. He played like a vet, not a rookie, and came one final red zone conversion from making the playoffs.

Second. As I said he hasn't been the same this year, but the move to Kitchens/Monken hasn' been a good call. The OBJ trade and the drama he brings is the last thing a young QB needs. He wasn't dealt as good a hand this year as people thought.

Third. He's a true gunslinger. Even his mistakes are usually from being overly aggressive, ala the young Favre people like to compare Darnold to. Baker has a great arm, and excellent mechanics.

Fourth. I think he became the leader of that team day one. He's always the guy setting the tone in a pre or post game presser. Perfect example was this Thursday night. He sat there and answered every question about that brawl perfectly. A ten year vet couldn't have handled it better.

Finally, you know he's the guy I wanted here, it wasn't meant to be though. I like a QB with an edge to him. A lot of guys don't, but his "woke up feeling dangerous today" comment, flag planting, etc are the personality traits I like in a leader. I can't stand the wishy washy bland personality type QB. Give me a Namath, Stabler guy with an edge to him. 

Teams figured out Baker.  He will pad his stats vs bad teams like he did last year.  His physical limitations will always be there.  He did handle the Garrett situation well after the game, but just 3 weeks ago he walked off  because he didn't like the question. Still immature. 

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8 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Because it does seem that you hate him.

Even your username seems to have been designed in an ironic way.

Even when Darnold has a good game, it’s chalked up to him playing a sh*t organization and you tell everyone to check their expectations. 

When a guy like Baker has a good game against a less than stellar organization to say the least, I hear zero mention of these aspects from you or a guy like @Villain The Foe.

When Mayfield throws an egregious interception, it always bounced off a WR’s hands, the receiver quit on his route, Baker just happened to wake up on the wrong side of the bed that morning, etc.

I can’t help but think that if Darnold grabbed his dick and talked smack to the opposing team or took shirtless GQ photos next to a Mercedes and a bengal tiger...you guys would love him.

Am I wrong?

Baker is better.

I don't have to hate on Sam for that to be true.

 

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The amount of people just desperate for him to fail is so amusing. That interception seemed to bring forth the apocalypse in the game thread. It was a horrible play but he had been playing a decent game to that point and went on to play well. Thankfully Sam moved on quicker than most fans and killed the game before the half superbly.

He’s one of the youngest QB’s in the league in an objectively awful situation. First paragraph of the PFF notes he “was excellent when given a clean pocket to work from” – How often has that been the case this season? 

There’s enough with Sam to believe he’s the guy – We need to give him a real chance with a competent group around him before declaring he’s a dud, which some are all so quick to do with every setback. He has some bad habits he needs to kick, he will probably never be the best manager of the ball but so long as he can outscore the opponents it’s enough. He’s not broken, despite Maccagnan’s best efforts. We need to finally invest in the line and see what he can do when the circumstances are better than god f*cking awful. 

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Better at what?
Excuse making? Trash talking? 
The Browns have arguably the most talented supporting cast on offense in the entire league and were supposed to compete for a Superbowl this year.
Instead, they have one whole extra win than the Jets (one of which was against the Siemian/Falk led Jets on Monday night) and Mayfield has been a bottom 5 starting QB the entire season.

Can you imagine the weekly sh!t show if Baker played in the NY market? It would be like Rex on roids.


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1 minute ago, maury77 said:


Can you imagine the weekly sh!t show if Baker played in the NY market? It would be like Rex on roids.


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This kid can’t even take the jabs from guys like Colin Cowherd and the local Cleveland beat reporters.

Could you imagine guys like Manish and Cimini poking and prodding at him daily?

He’d probably already have at least one Ryan Leaf moment in the locker room.

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Darnold like most rookie QB's is going to have his up's and downs. 

There are some things in place for him. WR's, RB's but things won't completely fall into place until the OL is upgraded significantly.

I am glad though that this board is full of QB whisperer's. Maybe you should send your resumes to Joe Douglas

 

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15 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

He can look bad at times, he can look very good at times. Even though QB’s take year two leaps, the kid is 22, has been playing QB for like 5 years, he was still a raw prospect albeit a very highly regarded one...this was always going to take time. We are still in the middle of the trials and tribulations of the youngest starting QB since the merger. He shot out 4 touchdowns and looked comfortable. He looked comfortable last week too. We just need to stack more and more games like these. I know the Redskins aren’t very good but they have a decent defense in place. Most importantly, Gase is finally putting Darnold on designed roll outs and the play calling aside from one or two head scratchers was solid today.

Gase needs to continue to make the TE’s a part of the passing game because it helped Sam out a lot to have a in-line blocker as well as a receiving option in the same formation.

he still doesn't have good form when throwing the ball.  maybe that's overrated but it looks like he's so sure he can make those off balance throws he frequently throws ints.  better oline pass blocking will help as will running more play action.

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4 hours ago, DJF71 said:

Teams figured out Baker.  He will pad his stats vs bad teams like he did last year.  His physical limitations will always be there.  He did handle the Garrett situation well after the game, but just 3 weeks ago he walked off  because he didn't like the question. Still immature. 

Right on all counts

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7 minutes ago, JiF said:

Omg the Mayfield cock suckers just can’t help themselves.  

Bizarre 

They were quiet for about 6 weeks now that Baker has some cupcakes to game manage they are back on the bandwagon calling everyone retards

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26 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

 

In the last 4 weeks, I’ve been tagged 3 times in threads by villain in which Sam has a bad game or makes a bad play. The reason? Because he’s butthurt about me calling out Baker for proving to be what we always knew he’d be. Has nothing to do with Sam. I wasn’t even a Sam fanboy during the draft, nor have I been one since the draft, but my rightful critiques of baker’s suckiness has got baker folks allll up in their feelz. 

Meanwhile, in this little 2 game win streak the browns have finally pieced together with all of the undeniable talent on their roster, Baker’s best AY/A is still a full yard below Sam’s worst AY/A over the same span. And now we got baker fans talking sh*t in this thread as well. Fun times at JN. 

Baker Fiedler

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13 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

To follow your logic, you’ll concede that Daniel Jones, who is the same age and plays behind as bad an OL, has less talent at WR on his team, is at the very least Darnold’s equal, correct?

He’s thrown 4 td passes without an int TWICE in his last three games, and even though he’s a rookie, he leads Darnold in every statistical category, I believe.

What do you predict for him going forward?

Jones should lead Sam in a lot of categories, hes played more games.  

And his offensive line is better than the Jets.  Seem to be better in pass protection and run blocking is much better.  

You watched the Jets Giants game and came away thinking the Giants had less talent at WR than the Jets?  Did you watch?  Jones threw little passes, one 2 yards short of the OL, one a yard off the OL and both went the for big gains.  Padded his stats and points.

I've watched Jones and I dont see a QB with the talent of Darnold.  Doesnt have the arm talent, isnt as accurate.  He'll be decent but has limitations.  

 

 

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16 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

When Sam has time to throw and steps into it I have a lot of confidence he's completing the pass. A lot. I am concerned about the fact that he seems to have a lot of dumbass in him. Just terrible decisions at the worst times. I know, he's 22.

Jury is still out. We need to protect him.

I agree about all. However the "dumbass" decisions, often arise when a QB does not trust his OL and tries to do too much by himself.  I am hopeful that given a real OL, we should see those diminish by a lot. 

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4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Baker is better.

I don't have to hate on Sam for that to be true.

 

Baker’s TD-INT is 11/12. His highest rated QBR this season? 105.2 ... With Kareem Hunt, Nick Chubb, OBJ, Landry, Njoku and the same offensive system he went into the season with last year. (Of course with some added vertical routes from Todd Monken)

Sam Darnold’s TD/INT ratio is 11/10 in less played games with his highest QBR being 121.4 and his second highest QBR(113.8) is still higher than Baker’s season best. Like I said, he’s done it in less games played with less to work with, worst OL in the league and several game plans where L Bell and Robby A don’t even get included in the offense. Darnold is throwing to a 78 year old DT and Jameson Crowder. 

 

please explain to me how in tf he is better. Baker hasn’t even throw 3 touchdowns in the same game this year. He definitely takes a back seat to Sam this season even with all the franchise turmoil, injuries and mono.

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17 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

He can look bad at times, he can look very good at times. Even though QB’s take year two leaps, the kid is 22, has been playing QB for like 5 years, he was still a raw prospect albeit a very highly regarded one...this was always going to take time. We are still in the middle of the trials and tribulations of the youngest starting QB since the merger. He shot out 4 touchdowns and looked comfortable. He looked comfortable last week too. We just need to stack more and more games like these. I know the Redskins aren’t very good but they have a decent defense in place. Most importantly, Gase is finally putting Darnold on designed roll outs and the play calling aside from one or two head scratchers was solid today.

Gase needs to continue to make the TE’s a part of the passing game because it helped Sam out a lot to have a in-line blocker as well as a receiving option in the same formation.

very well said - as usual.

But I agree with 90% of the people on this board, especially after events this past weekend:  Jets should just get rid of Darnold and continue "tanking for Tua".

[obvious sarcasm]

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Sam is going to be just fine. He's still building up his foundation and learning.

Maybe that's not what everyone wanted. It's completely normal to want a QB who steps right out of college and lights up the world. Of course everyone wants that.

But Sam is still getting there. He's shown so many positive traits and taken so many positive steps. It's just that the negative plays or games ALWAYS show up more than the things someone does well. 

He's going to keep getting better... Now it's on the front office and the rest of the organization to put the right pieces around (and in front) of him.

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22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Jones should lead Sam in a lot of categories, hes played more games.  

And his offensive line is better than the Jets.  Seem to be better in pass protection and run blocking is much better.  

You watched the Jets Giants game and came away thinking the Giants had less talent at WR than the Jets?  Did you watch?  Jones threw little passes, one 2 yards short of the OL, one a yard off the OL and both went the for big gains.  Padded his stats and points.

I've watched Jones and I dont see a QB with the talent of Darnold.  Doesnt have the arm talent, isnt as accurate.  He'll be decent but has limitations.  

 

 

100% agree.  how anyone can watch jones and think anything positive is beyond crazy.  somebody touches this kid and he fumbles!  it's crazy!!  and you said it perfectly:  one TD pass was 2 yards in backfield, and Tate did the rest (Jones gets credit), another our "wonderful" CB fell down and he had to dump off a 6 yard pass to a WIDE OPEN RECEIVER for a TD.  a 3rd one, vagiants were goal to go distance and he had 5 seconds (FIVE SECONDS)!!) to throw a TD pass.  but yeah their O-line is worse than ours!!!  Please.  before the Jets game, their o-line was ranked #5 in the NFL!!!  guess where the Jets o-line was ranked?

the Jets sold out to stop Barkley. and they did.  they let Jones dump off rinkey dinkey passes all day.  thier WRs did the rest.  but wehn it came down to crunch time (last 20 minutes of the game) jones looked simply awful!!!  like he does every week!  the fact that the vagiants punted on 4th down WITH NO TIMEOUTS at the end of the game says a lot about jones IMHO.

and let's be honest:  based on what I see on this board week in and week out with Sam, if jones was the Jets QB, he would be getting absolutely CRUCIFIED on this board!!!  

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15 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

Baker’s TD-INT is 11/12. His highest rated QBR this season? 105.2 ... With Kareem Hunt, Nick Chubb, OBJ, Landry, Njoku and the same offensive system he went into the season with last year. (Of course with some added vertical routes from Todd Monken)

Sam Darnold’s TD/INT ratio is 11/10 in less played games with his highest QBR being 121.4 and his second highest QBR(113.8) is still higher than Baker’s season best. Like I said, he’s done it in less games played with less to work with, worst OL in the league and several game plans where L Bell and Robby A don’t even get included in the offense. Darnold is throwing to a 78 year old DT and Jameson Crowder. 

 

please explain to me how in tf he is better. Baker hasn’t even throw 3 touchdowns in the same game this year. He definitely takes a back seat to Sam this season even with all the franchise turmoil, injuries and mono.

listen I am not one of these Jets fans who has to hate on baker to make Sam seem better, but even the biggest Sam basher/Baker lover has to admit:  Baker has MUCH better weapons, o-line, RB etc.  Yes, I said RB.  if Bell was actually playing like he did in Pitt, I can confidently say Sam would be so much better.  and I'm not saying it's Bell's fault - our o-line is flat out bad!!  

for people who think Sam is bad, and it's not our line, ask yourself this:  is Bell bad?  is it typical for him to go 10 games w/o a 100 yard rushing performance?  NO!  I do believe he has been hurt the past few weeks, but come on; that o-line is bad!!

we have our QB; now let's get the necessary pieces around him, starting with the line.

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4 minutes ago, Legend Killa7 said:

100% agree.  how anyone can watch jones and think anything positive is beyond crazy.  somebody touches this kid and he fumbles!  it's crazy!!  and you said it perfectly:  one TD pass was 2 yards in backfield, and Tate did the rest (Jones gets credit), another our "wonderful" CB fell down and he had to dump off a 6 yard pass to a WIDE OPEN RECEIVER for a TD.  a 3rd one, vagiants were goal to go distance and he had 5 seconds (FIVE SECONDS)!!) to throw a TD pass.  but yeah their O-line is worse than ours!!!  Please.  before the Jets game, their o-line was ranked #5 in the NFL!!!  guess where the Jets o-line was ranked?

the Jets sold out to stop Barkley. and they did.  they let Jones dump off rinkey dinkey passes all day.  thier WRs did the rest.  but wehn it came down to crunch time (last 20 minutes of the game) jones looked simply awful!!!  like he does every week!  the fact that the vagiants punted on 4th down WITH NO TIMEOUTS at the end of the game says a lot about jones IMHO.

and let's be honest:  based on what I see on this board week in and week out with Sam, if jones was the Jets QB, he would be getting absolutely CRUCIFIED on this board!!!  

And he gets a ton of credit because he's not Eli.  

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

Omg the Mayfield cock suckers just can’t help themselves.  

Bizarre 

It really is bizarre.  These people need help. 

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

And he gets a ton of credit because he's not Eli.  

yes that, and the fact that it's the vagiants!  I mean the Jets sneeze and they get criticized for doing it wrong.  the giants get all the excuses.  drives me crazy!  if I had to listen one more time last week about how their o-line was missing two guys, and then three, and how their WR and TE were out.....

please.  Jets started with three o-line men out (then 4 when winters went down), our #1 WR (Enunwa) has been out forever, and Herndon is done for the year after playing like 12 snaps.  unbelievable.

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Sam Darnold will be the Jets QB for at least the next three years.
   
I can’t predict how his extension goes, but if he is much better next year than this year it could happen after year 4.

 
If the Johnsons make him play under his fifth year option, that would be a bad sign.

 
He basically can be a good QB in this league, and for so long as he is the QB the Jets will not be bad enough to pick at the top of the draft.

I don’t see Gase being creative enough to pick a Watson, Mahomes or Jackson.  They at least used to go lower in the first round.  Maybe not anymore. 
 

We should embrace Darnold and build a team around him until it absolutely fails.  Then it gets completely rebuilt.  

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6 hours ago, DJF71 said:

Teams figured out Baker.  He will pad his stats vs bad teams like he did last year.  

The jets fan says in a thread crowing about Sam Darnold, just after padding his stats vs two bottom 5 teams 

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1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

Baker’s TD-INT is 11/12. His highest rated QBR this season? 105.2 ... With Kareem Hunt, Nick Chubb, OBJ, Landry, Njoku and the same offensive system he went into the season with last year. (Of course with some added vertical routes from Todd Monken)

Sam Darnold’s TD/INT ratio is 11/10 in less played games with his highest QBR being 121.4 and his second highest QBR(113.8) is still higher than Baker’s season best. Like I said, he’s done it in less games played with less to work with, worst OL in the league and several game plans where L Bell and Robby A don’t even get included in the offense. Darnold is throwing to a 78 year old DT and Jameson Crowder. 

 

please explain to me how in tf he is better. Baker hasn’t even throw 3 touchdowns in the same game this year. He definitely takes a back seat to Sam this season even with all the franchise turmoil, injuries and mono.

Check their career stats. 

 

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31 minutes ago, varjet said:

I don’t see Gase being creative enough to pick a Watson, Mahomes or Jackson.  They at least used to go lower in the first round.  Maybe not anymore.

A brief history:

Jackson was the fifth quarterback off the board. Watson and Mahomes went behind Mitchell Trubisky. Prescott and Brissett went behind Christian Hackenberg. Bridgewater went behind Blake Bortles and Johnny Football. Russell Wilson was a third round pick.

If I had to bet i would think that it will be a while before black quarterbacks cease to be systemically undervalued in the draft.

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4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Check their career stats. 

 

Baker had a good season last year. Nice. This year Is absolutely inexcusable with the kind of supporting cast he has right now. He’s regressed and collectively as whole looked much worse than Darnold has looked this season. Last year’s stats do not add any value to this point.

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24 minutes ago, CTM said:

The jets fan says in a thread crowing about Sam Darnold, just after padding his stats vs two bottom 5 teams 

I don’t see the two as comparable.

Darnold was making some big throws into tight windows yesterday and while under duress on many of them.

It seems like damn near every time I watch Mayfield make a big play in the passing game, it’s some little 6-8 yard slant that someone like Beckham, Landry or Higgins takes for a big gain.

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Sam Darnold is current ranked:

-41st in the NFL in completion percentage (63.2%)

-24th in Yards Per Game (228.6)

-22nd in TD's (11)

-Third Worst in INT's (10)

-In games he started the team record is 3-4

Thus far, in his second year, he has (IMO) shown the same thing he did his first year:  flashes of good play surrounded by mostly poor and slightly sub-average play.  He has not, IMO, shown anything to indicate he is a legit Franchise QB yet, but he is behind a poor O-line (and/or poor O-line coaching/scheme).  IMO he has not yet shown he can make the players around him better (yet).  

Going into his third year, he will have to make material strides in upping his performance, specifically his metrics of production, no matter who blocks for him or catches his passes.  He needs to add +6-8% to his completion percentage.  He needs to produce 4,000 yards passing.  He needs to halve his INT rate or more.  And he needs to show, clearly and without question, the ability to play 16 games, start to finish.  He needs to show he can take whomever he plays with, and make them better by his play alone.  That is what a Franchise QB does.

Like Gase, Darnold will get a full pass on 2019.  Is what it is.  But he will very much be on the proverbial "hot seat" in 2020.  Not of being cut (he won't be cut till the end of his fifth year, I'm confidant) but that he is, legitimately, a Franchise QB worth investing in.

Sadly, the dream of competing for a title while Sam was on his cheap rookie contract appears to be fading.  Before you know it, we'll have to make a decision on Sam, a very costly one one way or the other.  

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Just now, Warfish said:

Sam Darnold is current ranked:

-41st in the NFL in completion percentage (63.2%)

-24th in Yards Per Game (228.6)

 -22nd in TD's (11)

-Third Worst in INT's (10)

 Thus far, in his second year, he has (IMO) shown the same thing he did his first year:  flashes of good play surrounded by mostly poor and slightly sub-average play.  He has not, IMO, shown anything to indicate he is a legit Franchise QB yet.  IMO he does not make the players around him better (yet).  

Going into his third year, he will have to make material strides in upping his performance, no matter who blocks for him or catches his passes.  He needs to add 6-8% to his completion percentage.  He needs to halve him INT rate.  And he needs to show, clearly and without question, the ability to play 16 games, start to finish.  He needs to show he can take whomever he plays with, and make them better by his play alone.

Like Gase, Darnold will get a full pass on 2019.  Is what it is.  But he will very much be on the proverbial "hot seat" in 2020.  Not of being cut (he won't be cut till the end of his fifth year, I'm confidant) but that he is, legitimately, a Franchise QB worth investing in.

 Sadly, the dream of competing while Sam was on his cheap rookie contract appears to be fading.  Before you know it, we'll have to make a decision on Sam, a very costly one one way or the other.  

The scary thing about that 3rd worst INTs, is that it comes with 3 less games than the rest.

What should concern Jets fans more is that he's #2 in INT%, with 4.3%.  Number 1 is Winston with 4.4%.  #3 is Mayfield with 3.5%, which is a pretty meaningful difference between 2 and 3.

I'm glad that he's played two solid games against the Giants and Redskins, but maybe we should look at those for what they are... two solid games against the Giants and Redskins.

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15 minutes ago, Untouchable said:

I don’t see the two as comparable.

Darnold was making some big throws into tight windows yesterday and while under duress on many of them.

It seems like damn near every time I watch Mayfield make a big play in the passing game, it’s some little 6-8 yard slant that someone like Beckham, Landry or Higgins takes for a big gain.

You don't find it funny that a Jet fan is critisizing Baker for stat padding against bad teams in a thread celebrating Darnold who just stat padded against 2 bad teams?

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