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Patriot Killa

Sam Darnold isn’t broken.

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8 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Darnold has yet to have a "good year". 

 

Relax. 

This still doesn’t necessarily make Baker a better QB for what he has shown now lol 

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16 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Darnold throws 4 TD’s and Jet fans are examining interception rates to prove how bad he is. With one proclaiming that he’ll be on the hot seat next year. Too funny. 

exactly.  I have a real hard time dealing with stupid people.  I need to work on that; it's why I visit this forum.....

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26 minutes ago, sackdance said:

Please name the QB that doesn't have a very poor year with the 2019 Jets?  

Why bother?  It's all fantasy either way. 

I argue X guy would have been fine, you counter he wouldn't have, neither of us can prove it, so what's the point.

If you think no one could have won with this team, fine, we agree to disagree.  I think a number of the top QB's would have won (materially more) with this team.  For starters, most of them wouldn't have gotten Mono, lol.

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45 minutes ago, rldev said:

Quarterbacks throw picks and make dangerous throws every week. Even great ones. Is anyone talking about Garopollo's two picks yesterday? No. 4tds trump a single pick no matter how you slice it. Throw more tds then picks, that's the qb game(hopefully 3-1:). Was it a dangerous throw, sure. If Montgomery actually puts his hands up, it's probably not a pick. While I would like to see less picks, I also don't want a game manager either. You have to learn what you can and can't do. It takes time. There is certainly enough to build around. 

QBs throw picks and make dangerous throws every week.  Sam Darnold does it the 2nd most, and by a wide margin.  Why are you okay ignoring this?

Garopollo does it at 3.2% to Darnolds 4.3%, a significant difference.

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1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

What excuses this week though? He threw an ugly pick. Terrible throw. Dumb decision. Needs to learn when the play is dead. He threw it away two times afterwards. 4 touchdowns is cool too.

Brett Favre made a career throwing ugly picks. 

Would I prefer Darnold make less mistakes? ABSOLUTELY. 

Just to put into perspective. Chad Pennington, who was considered a smart, reliable, game manager-esque QB at age 27:

Comp Pct 63pct with 13/12 TD to INT ratio. 

Chad at age 30:

Comp Pct 64pct with 17/16 TD to INT Ratio. 

 

Darnold this year at 22 with a garbage Oline and 1 disaster game against the Pats:

Comp Pct 63pct with a 11/10 TD to INT Ratio. 

 

I think some here just need to realize that Darnold is still the same age as Joe Burrow and Daniel Jones. And it's not like Darnold came into the NFL with a ton of College Experience. 

If Darnold is putting up the same type of production next year and the year after I will start to get worried. 

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58 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Let's call a spade a spade here, and let's call Darnold what he is at this point. And that is incomplete. Like the majority of qbs that have only competed in 20 games in their career.

The last 2 weeks have shown what he can do well. He can thread a ball through an intermediate and short window. He can both those things with touch and velocity. He can roll out well and throw the ball on the move. He can elude a rush and make a play when a play breaks down.

These weeks, and others have also shown where he needs to improve. His deep ball accuracy still leaves a lot to be desired. Gase does not dial up many of those plays, I assume for both a lack of time and the Jets do not have a big-bodied WR that can outmuscle a DB. Darnold still has the proclivity to try to extend a play or to try and force the ball when the play is not there. He needs to cut his losses and play for the next down. he is certainly somewhat spooked by the rush. Understandably so, as he has been under pressure a lot. 

The good news is that the physical tools all seem to be there. There does seem to be a progression of understanding  the offense more and he is not looking for the first option as much as he did last year. The progressions are there. Also, hopefully the immaturity of trying to do too much will pass. Or, it won't.

I have no idea if he will ever have the NFL deep ball accuracy. The arm strength seems to be there. Also, just don't know how much the aforementioned big-bodied receive may help him in that regard.

From my perspective, he is the most intriguing young qb the Jets have had since Chad Pennington. And we should feel good about that alone.

Again, incomplete is the grade from me.

Agreed. Maybe the deep ball accuracy improves when he has a bit more time to make the throw. It might be even just a second of half of second but to be honest I just don't see how you can throw a deep ball when you have basically less than 2.5 seconds to make the throw.

Gotta cut down on the bad turnovers and learn to throw the ball away occasionally. 

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1 hour ago, Patriot Killa said:

This still doesn’t necessarily make Baker a better QB for what he has shown now lol 

What does this even mean? Is there anything that you could point to that would show that Sam Darnold is better? 

Baker played all 10 games this season and thrown 11 picks. That's terrible. Sam has played 7 games and has thrown 10 picks. Thats not better my dude. 

Folks love the narrative of "Baker has thrown more INT's than anyone since starting". Well, Mayfield has played in 24 games and has thrown 26 INT's. Sam has played in 20 games and has thrown 25 INT's. 

Sam has missed time due to injury and sickness. Mayfield has missed no games since starting. 

Taking their career stats, wins, TD's, INT's, Yards, division wins, charting, PFF or Pro Football Reference value charts...there is nothing that I've seen that supports that Sam is a better QB or has played better football than Baker in an individual season. 

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4 minutes ago, sackdance said:

ONE MORE TIME: There isn't a QB in the league who can prosper behind an offensive line that L'Veon Bell is averaging 3.2 yards a carry behind.

Bold it all you like, it's still wrong as I see it.

4 minutes ago, sackdance said:

If I'm wrong - just tell me who this materially superior QB that could elevate the Jets offense is ... Lamar? Rodgers? Mahomes? 

Why?  You clearly won't agree regardless of who I name, so why not just agree to disagree?

Pretend I said Tom Brady.  Now go ahead, tear that idea down, get frothy!  Enjoy yourself!

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

What does this even mean? Is there anything that you could point to that would show that Sam Darnold is better? 

Baker played all 10 games this season and thrown 11 picks. That's terrible. Sam has played 7 games and has thrown 10 picks. Thats not better my dude. 

Folks love the narrative of "Baker has thrown more INT's than anyone since starting". Well, Mayfield has played in 24 games and has thrown 26 INT's. Sam has played in 20 games and has thrown 25 INT's. 

Sam has missed time due to injury and sickness. Mayfield has missed no games since starting. 

Taking their career stats, wins, TD's, INT's, Yards, division wins, charting, PFF or Pro Football Reference value charts...there is nothing that I've seen that supports that Sam is a better QB or has played better football than Baker in an individual season. 

the whose more underwhelming thread?

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Sam Darnold is the 25th ranked QB by QBR.

call it what you will. 

bottom tier to this point.

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18 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You clearly won't agree regardless of who I name, so why not just agree to disagree? 

Of course not, because it's preposterous to think anybody could properly execute an adequate NFL offense behind this line.  

What you should be hoping for is that Darnold gets tough as sh*te and remains in one piece playing behind this line - instead of putting it out there that there's a QB that could have led this team anywhere else but the loss column this season.

Oh - and speaking of, how high was your opinion of the Jets before the season started? Were you spouting off that a postseason awaited this team - if only we had an elite QB? I seriously doubt you were. 

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3 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

Sam Darnold is the 25th ranked QB by QBR.

call it what you will. 

 bottom tier to this point.

The last 2 weeks he was ranked 8th and 10th. 

Maybe a 22 year old QB needs some time and will get better....

Maybe he will get even better with improved Oline play. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

Sam Darnold is the 25th ranked QB by QBR.

call it what you will. 

bottom tier to this point.

 

Ok - so what's his ceiling?

 

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4 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The last 2 weeks he was ranked 8th and 10th. 

Maybe a 22 year old QB needs some time and will get better....

Maybe he will get even better with improved Oline play. 

 

Maybe he just needs to only play against horrible defenses and he'll look like a 10 QB all the time. 

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9 minutes ago, sackdance said:

Of course not, because it's preposterous to think anybody could properly execute an adequate NFL offense behind this line.  

I think I've made it clear I don't think anything I offer would suffice for you, and you've now made it very clear that nothing anyone could offer would suffice.  So ok, you think no human being could do well on the jets at QB. 

Such an opinion is the same old homer excuse making Jets Fans always engage in over poor young drafted QB play.  It's verbatim what people said about Geno Smith too.  And Sanchez.  And Pennington too for that matter.  "Just need time, and weaponz".  Got it.

9 minutes ago, sackdance said:

What you should be hoping for is that Darnold gets tough as sh*te and remains in one piece playing behind this line - instead of putting it out there that there's a QB that could have led this team anywhere else but the loss column this season.

What difference does what I think make?  

9 minutes ago, sackdance said:

Oh - and speaking of, how high was your opinion of the Jets before the season started? Were you spouting off that a postseason awaited this team - if only we had an elite QB? I seriously doubt you were. 

I fully expected a competitive, potentially playoff contending team, I believe I said 10-6 to 8-8 was a reasonable expectation.

And it would have been, with franchise-level QB play for all 16 games, not a month of lol Mono, and half of the other games played being played horribly.

Opening day vs. the Bills was absolutely winnable with better QB play and coaching.  The Browns was winnable with better QB play and coaching.  The Jaguars was winnable with better QB play and coaching.  The Dolphins was winnable with better QB play and coaching. 

That's 4 winnable games against mostly pretty bad teams we blew, mostly due to poor performance from the QB and poor coaching.   Flip those games, we're 7-3 today, and facing a host of winnable/weak games.  Flip any 3 and we're 6-4 and every bit a contender in the season.  Even flip two (Bills and Phins) and we're still a competitive 5-5, alive in the East, facing a mostly losing group of teams down the stretch.

If you don't think any of the top franchise QB's in the league couldn't have beat the Bills and Dolphins, well.......

Yes, our O-line was mismanaged by Gase and worse than expected.  Yes, we suffered injuries like all teams do.  Yes, Bell is completely miscast behind this O-line (just look how good other RB's who don't wait behind the line are doing).  And yes, if we had a legit mature franchise-level QB performing at an average franchise-QB level, we're a playoff contender today.

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18 minutes ago, funaz said:

Maybe he just needs to only play against horrible defenses and he'll look like a 10 QB all the time. 

brady's made a career out of it. 

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28 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The last 2 weeks he was ranked 8th and 10th. 

Maybe a 22 year old QB needs some time and will get better....

Maybe he will get even better with improved Oline play. 

 

so , only count the good games vs bad teams? no thanks. you count them all.

in the end, we have no choice in this.... so maybe he will get better? sure.

maybe not, also.

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27 minutes ago, sackdance said:

Ok - so what's his ceiling?

Thats unknown. We'd hope top 10 routinely, but he's a long way from there at this point.

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2 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

so , only count the good games vs bad teams? no thanks. you count them all.

in the end, we have no choice in this.... so maybe he will get better? sure.

maybe not, also.

The point is that he has gotten better the last 2 weeks. 

Of course if you are a SOJF you only remember the Patriot/Jags games. 

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24 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The point is that he has gotten better the last 2 weeks. 

Of course if you are a SOJF you only remember the Patriot/Jags games. 

no. i remember all games.

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On 11/18/2019 at 3:39 PM, Losmeister said:

Sam Darnold is the 25th ranked QB by QBR.

call it what you will. 

bottom tier to this point.

Jimmy G didn’t even play last year after looking meh 

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On 11/18/2019 at 4:17 PM, JoJoTownsell1 said:

The point is that he has gotten better the last 2 weeks. 

Of course if you are a SOJF you only remember the Patriot/Jags games. 

Only Baker Mayfield is allowed to struggle as a young qb

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On 11/18/2019 at 3:50 PM, funaz said:

Maybe he just needs to only play against horrible defenses and he'll look like a 10 QB all the time. 

Or maybe instead taking the simplistic view that he can only beat the bad teams we can look deeper and realize he's looked good when he hasn't been either on his ass or harassed the entire game.  

And stop with cliches like he only looks good against horrible defenses.  Wash and Dallas aren't horrible defenses.  

Hell, one QB expert here went on about he doesn't have the arm to make sideline passes.  Like the ones he mad last week on just about every TD?  About as dumb an assessment as there is about a QB with a big arm.

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I am excited about sams future.  Sure he has had a few rough games but overall I like what I see, a lot.

Make a list of all the things around him that he has going for him externally that helps him be a better QB.  I can think of 1 thing, Bell being in the backfield will bring more defenders into the box.  What else is there? the line, the system(1st year), WRs?

Then you can make a list of external things that keep him from being successful. just too many to list.

So against all odds imo, he still shows glipses of a very young QB that can go through progressions and has situational awareness, and throws an accurate ball on the short to intermediate passes. I agree that he has missed on a few long balls that were there for him but I believe he can make those with more comfort from his line.

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I do think that Darnold would fare much better behind an even average OL, but I also think he should be playing better even given the existing circumstances. Some of these picks he has thrown are just bad, and result from him trying to do too much. He needs to learn that simply not putting your team in a bad spot is probably the most important aspect of playing QB.

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On 11/18/2019 at 1:03 PM, Apache 51 said:

He needs lots help on O, he be fine.

He will indeed be fine.  The only thing he needs is an upgraded line.  A big WR would be great, but Darnold would make average WR better than average IF HE HAD TIME TO THROW.

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On 11/18/2019 at 1:39 PM, Losmeister said:

Sam Darnold is the 25th ranked QB by QBR.

call it what you will. 

bottom tier to this point.

What’s his rating if you take out that New England game where his OL totally didn’t show up as opposed to only showing up 1/4 to 1/2 the time?

Probably 15th?  Someone did the math.  You take that game out of the equation his QBR is at 100.

Also, he’s playing on an Offense with a level of talent overall that you would see a Pennington or a Sanchez have a difficult time putting a single TD up over the entire season.

I’m not making excuses for him.  I’m confident he’ll be well on his way to being one of the top QBs in the game starting next year.

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On 11/18/2019 at 1:00 PM, Patriot Killa said:

This still doesn’t necessarily make Baker a better QB for what he has shown now lol 

Based on Villain’s logic RG3 is better than Sam

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why dont we also eliminate his BEST game, leave the WORST, and then re-calculate?

 

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15 hours ago, Losmeister said:

why dont we also eliminate his BEST game, leave the WORST, and then re-calculate?

 

Why not fail to get the point and continue with this line of complaining where no one should be complaining this hard given the circumstances 

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I'm all over the place with Sam, I know. A few weeks ago, it really looked to me like Sam was damaged goods. But I'm trying to keep it in context. 22 year old kid, sh*t O line, a pretty shallow WR group,  and a new HC/OC. 

 

Next year (yeah, yeah, I know....) he'll be a 23 year old QB, around the "normal" age QBs get drafted, and will have 2 years of NFL experience,  and a second year in the same system,  hopefully with a better o line and a legit #1 WR to throw to. 

 

I'm holding off until then to give the guy a grade. 

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On 11/18/2019 at 2:15 PM, Villain The Foe said:

What does this even mean? Is there anything that you could point to that would show that Sam Darnold is better? 

Baker played all 10 games this season and thrown 11 picks. That's terrible. Sam has played 7 games and has thrown 10 picks. Thats not better my dude. 

Folks love the narrative of "Baker has thrown more INT's than anyone since starting". Well, Mayfield has played in 24 games and has thrown 26 INT's. Sam has played in 20 games and has thrown 25 INT's. 

Sam has missed time due to injury and sickness. Mayfield has missed no games since starting. 

Taking their career stats, wins, TD's, INT's, Yards, division wins, charting, PFF or Pro Football Reference value charts...there is nothing that I've seen that supports that Sam is a better QB or has played better football than Baker in an individual season. 

You do realize that Mayfield is throwing to a 4x Pro Bowler, a 2x all pro, and has a better line to play behind....right?

 

He BETTER have superior stats to a guy who's "best" WR was an UDFA and plays behind a line that has featured Brian Winters, Chuma Edoga, and at times, a complete void at Center. LOL

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