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Sam Darnold isn’t broken.

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47 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

You do realize that Mayfield is throwing to a 4x Pro Bowler, a 2x all pro, and has a better line to play behind....right?

 

He BETTER have superior stats to a guy who's "best" WR was an UDFA and plays behind a line that has featured Brian Winters, Chuma Edoga, and at times, a complete void at Center. LOL

Then do me a favor and please remind those making any direct or loose suggestions that Darnold has shown to be better than Mayfield.

On no level is it true. 

 

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1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then do me a favor and please remind those making any direct or loose suggestions that Darnold has shown to be better than Mayfield.

On no level is it true. 

 

If you put Mayfield with the same exact personnel that Darnold unfortunately has surrounding him....I think Mayfield lags Darnold...across the board.

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2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then do me a favor and please remind those making any direct or loose suggestions that Darnold has shown to be better than Mayfield.

On no level is it true. 

 

They're both young, inconsistent QBs. One has a better supporting cast, the other is a better natural athlete.  

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17 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

If you put Mayfield with the same exact personnel that Darnold unfortunately has surrounding him....I think Mayfield lags Darnold...across the board.

That's alot of personal opinion.

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18 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

They're both young, inconsistent QBs. One has a better supporting cast, the other is a better natural athlete.  

Mayfield has a stronger arm and is a better player outside of the pocket whether it's running or throwing on the run.

Mayfield was underrated based on his size while folks ignored his production while in college. Meanwhile Darnold was overrated based on his 2016 Rosebowl performance and his comparison to Andrew Luck, while ignoring his regression in 2017.

This isnt new, Mayfield was always a better QB no matter the level. 

 

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On 11/17/2019 at 4:36 PM, Barry McCockinner said:

When Sam has time to throw and steps into it I have a lot of confidence he's completing the pass. A lot. I am concerned about the fact that he seems to have a lot of dumbass in him. Just terrible decisions at the worst times. I know, he's 22.

Jury is still out. We need to protect him.

In that respect he plays like Favre who also did a lot of dumbass things and throws he made. But, Favre and we see also with Sammy are much more good than bad. The other alternative is usually QBs with low INT totals that take no chances but never amount to much like Tyrod Taylor.

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35 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

They're both young, inconsistent QBs. One has a better supporting cast, the other is a better natural athlete.  

This is a very fair summary

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52 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then do me a favor and please remind those making any direct or loose suggestions that Darnold has shown to be better than Mayfield.

On no level is it true. 

 

It's foolish to say one if better than the other right now. Both are getting knocked around a ton, but Baker's weapons still trump Sam's. 

Darnold: 81.1 rating, 63.2 CMP, 4.7 TD % 4.3 Int % 6.8 Y/A

Mayfield: 76.8 rating, 59.2 CMP, 3.2 TD %, 3.5 Int %, 7 Y/A

Darnold has slightly better numbers, but nothing to draw any conclusions on.

 

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On 11/18/2019 at 11:31 AM, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Brett Favre made a career throwing ugly picks. 

Would I prefer Darnold make less mistakes? ABSOLUTELY. 

Just to put into perspective. Chad Pennington, who was considered a smart, reliable, game manager-esque QB at age 27:

Comp Pct 63pct with 13/12 TD to INT ratio. 

Chad at age 30:

Comp Pct 64pct with 17/16 TD to INT Ratio. 

 

Darnold this year at 22 with a garbage Oline and 1 disaster game against the Pats:

Comp Pct 63pct with a 11/10 TD to INT Ratio. 

 

I think some here just need to realize that Darnold is still the same age as Joe Burrow and Daniel Jones. And it's not like Darnold came into the NFL with a ton of College Experience. 

If Darnold is putting up the same type of production next year and the year after I will start to get worried. 

Also, with Chad Pennington you’d never get a “3 plays 80 yard TD drive”, everything would have to go perfectly.

Put aside Darnold’s competition this year, he’s 3-4 and put up 30+ points in all 3 wins.

Did Pennington ever have an entire year where he had 3....30+ point games?  His entire career?

Thats why I’ll take a Gunslinger over a game manager any day of the week.  There will be more picks and mistakes in total but there will also be mountains of more points scored.

And in the current NFL that’s the only way you can win....LOTS of points. 

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56 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

That's alot of personal opinion.

You’re using the same when you back Mayfield.

Being objective as possible from what I’ve seen potential wise, and that’s really the only way you can try to get a grade on Darnold with the garbage that surrounds him...I’d take Darnold over Mayfield every day of the week.

Just wait until the day Darnold has a team hopefully somewhat close to what Mayfield is blessed with playing now (not very impressive with what Mayfield has done so far).  If Douglas is able to provide that the Jets will perennially be making deep playoff runs.

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1 hour ago, Grandy said:

It's foolish to say one if better than the other right now. Both are getting knocked around a ton, but Baker's weapons still trump Sam's. 

Darnold: 81.1 rating, 63.2 CMP, 4.7 TD % 4.3 Int % 6.8 Y/A

Mayfield: 76.8 rating, 59.2 CMP, 3.2 TD %, 3.5 Int %, 7 Y/A

Darnold has slightly better numbers, but nothing to draw any conclusions on.

 

Are these career numbers? 

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1 hour ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

You’re using the same when you back Mayfield.

Being objective as possible from what I’ve seen potential wise, and that’s really the only way you can try to get a grade on Darnold with the garbage that surrounds him...I’d take Darnold over Mayfield every day of the week.

Just wait until the day Darnold has a team hopefully somewhat close to what Mayfield is blessed with playing now (not very impressive with what Mayfield has done so far).  If Douglas is able to provide that the Jets will perennially be making deep playoff runs.

Actually, im not. Example. Here are all my comments in this thread. Everything below can be backed with career stats, whether college or pro level. 

All of this "race to the bottom talk" (he's better but he has no weapons so it doesnt show) is opinion and not based on anything substantial. You prefer Darnold, that doesnt make Darnold better. My response has been based on things that I can show. 

 

On 11/18/2019 at 10:51 AM, Villain The Foe said:

Baker is better.

I don't have to hate on Sam for that to be true.

 

 

On 11/18/2019 at 4:48 PM, Villain The Foe said:

Check their career stats. 

 

 

On 11/18/2019 at 6:52 PM, Villain The Foe said:

Darnold has yet to have a "good year". 

 

Relax. 

 

On 11/18/2019 at 8:15 PM, Villain The Foe said:

What does this even mean? Is there anything that you could point to that would show that Sam Darnold is better? 

Baker played all 10 games this season and thrown 11 picks. That's terrible. Sam has played 7 games and has thrown 10 picks. Thats not better my dude. 

Folks love the narrative of "Baker has thrown more INT's than anyone since starting". Well, Mayfield has played in 24 games and has thrown 26 INT's. Sam has played in 20 games and has thrown 25 INT's. 

Sam has missed time due to injury and sickness. Mayfield has missed no games since starting. 

Taking their career stats, wins, TD's, INT's, Yards, division wins, charting, PFF or Pro Football Reference value charts...there is nothing that I've seen that supports that Sam is a better QB or has played better football than Baker in an individual season. 

 

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Mayfield has a stronger arm and is a better player outside of the pocket whether it's running or throwing on the run.

Mayfield was underrated based on his size while folks ignored his production while in college. Meanwhile Darnold was overrated based on his 2016 Rosebowl performance and his comparison to Andrew Luck, while ignoring his regression in 2017.

This isnt new, Mayfield was always a better QB no matter the level. 

 

 

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Guys, Sam Darnold can be good without any other QB needing to be bad, especially from that draft class. More importantly, the comparisons need to end because if anything, most of us got it wrong as Lamar Jackson is looking MVP worthy. 

I keep hearing about the talent around Mayfield. Well, the biggest problem has been coaching for both Darnold and Mayfield. Something that Lamar has.

 

That's what happens when you're drafted 1st and 3rd overall and your GM isnt Ozzie or your coach Harbaugh

Darnold isnt broken, he's in a sh*tty situation. Can we stop comparing and acting like the Browns are some juggernaut franchise? They have more talent, but they actually have a worse coaching staff. 

Both franchises have a long way to go.

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1 hour ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

You’re using the same when you back Mayfield.

Being objective as possible from what I’ve seen potential wise, and that’s really the only way you can try to get a grade on Darnold with the garbage that surrounds him...I’d take Darnold over Mayfield every day of the week.

Just wait until the day Darnold has a team hopefully somewhat close to what Mayfield is blessed with playing now (not very impressive with what Mayfield has done so far).  If Douglas is able to provide that the Jets will perennially be making deep playoff runs.

This

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33 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Actually, im not. Example. Here are all my comments in this thread. Everything below can be backed with career stats, whether college or pro level. 

All of this "race to the bottom talk" (he's better but he has no weapons so it doesnt show) is opinion and not based on anything substantial. You prefer Darnold, that doesnt make Darnold better. My response has been based on things that I can show. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mayfield...stacked teams surrounding him virtually all the time....Darnold 1 year at USC was his team stacked...both years with the Jets?  Roster built by Mike Maccagnan..enough said.

Mayfield 4 years playing QB coming into the league.

Lets see how Darnold is playing when he is Mayfield’s age RIGHT NOW..I think he is what 2 or maybe even 3 years Older than Darnold?

Playing on stacked teams does nothing to add to Mayfield’s gaudy stats when he puts them up?  You want to talk “regression”?  Please see 2019 Mayfield, Baker (with Odell Beckham thrown into the mix to help him).

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1 hour ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Mayfield...stacked teams surrounding him virtually all the time....Darnold 1 year at USC was his team stacked...both years with the Jets?  Roster built by Mike Maccagnan..enough said.

Mayfield 4 years playing QB coming into the league.

Lets see how Darnold is playing when he is Mayfield’s age RIGHT NOW..I think he is what 2 or maybe even 3 years Older than Darnold?

Playing on stacked teams does nothing to add to Mayfield’s gaudy stats when he puts them up?  You want to talk “regression”?  Please see 2019 Mayfield, Baker (with Odell Beckham thrown into the mix to help him).

Then what I suggest is that you WAIT until Darnold is that age. 

The problem with this statement is the same everytime someone says it. 

It's not like Darnold is going to continue to develop and Mayfield is just going to stop. 

Look, come back when you have something a bit more tangible.

Do I have a problem with you preferring Darnold? No. Its not like he's terrible. But you guys need to quit the comparison's with the only argument being talent around the QB. Guess what? That's what you're supposed to do. Also, you said that Sam had a stacked team his freshman year. Was he a Heisman finalist? 

 

Exactly.

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47 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then what I suggest is that you WAIT until Darnold is that age. 

The problem with this statement is the same everytime someone says it. 

It's not like Darnold is going to continue to develop and Mayfield is just going to stop. 

Look, come back when you have something a bit more tangible.

Do I have a problem with you preferring Darnold? No. Its not like he's terrible. But you guys need to quit the comparison's with the only argument being talent around the QB. Guess what? That's what you're supposed to do. Also, you said that Sam had a stacked team his freshman year. Was he a Heisman finalist? 

 

Exactly.

All Freshman who play QB and who actually were LBs part of the time in high school have a good shot at the Heisman...are you kidding me?

Mayfield has played WAY WAY more QB than Darnold.

Time will tell, but how do you explain Mayfield’s regression this year with personnel surrounding him that are so much better than what Darnold has to work with that you couldn’t come close quantifying the difference?

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1 hour ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

All Freshman who play QB and who actually were LBs part of the time in high school have a good shot at the Heisman...are you kidding me?

So all 2-time walk on's end up being 2-time Heisman finalist, a Heisman semi-finalist as well as a heisman winner while setting the highest efficiency rate in FBS history? Walk-on's are doing that every season huh? 

Excuses. 

Oh, and before you mention how "Mayfield's teams was staked with talent", let me quickly kill that by stating that during his last season when OU went to the College playoff, every team in the playoff had a top 10 defense...except Oklahoma. Do you know what that defense ranked? 68th in the nation. In otherwords, Baker and that offense carried that entire team into the college playoff.

Quote

Mayfield has played WAY WAY more QB than Darnold.

So there should be no surprise that he's better. What's exactly the problem here? 

Quote

Time will tell, but how do you explain Mayfield’s regression this year with personnel surrounding him that are so much better than what Darnold has to work with that you couldn’t come close quantifying the difference?

Mayfield's regression is not hard to explain. 

Let me quickly kill this overrated notion that "personnel is everything". Mayfield has had 3 head coaches and 3 offensive coordinators in less than 2 years. His current Head coach which was his OC for part of the season last year never held an OC job or HC for an entire season prior to being thrown into both positions within a 12 month span. 

Cleveland has arguably the worst Tackles in the league, along with the Jets. The Browns OC Todd Monkin has been lack luster creating the plays. So horrible in fact that the Mayfield ran one of the best redzone offenses in the league last year and this year it's the worst. On top of having some of the worst Tackles in the league, John Dorsey goes ahead and trades one of his better Oline players in Guard Kevin Zeitler for Oliver Vernon. So Baker mayfield is playing with 3 suspect players at both tackle spots and at the guard spot, along with Bitonio and Tretter. 

If you watched any of the games You'd noticed that the same rotation of the tackles that the Jets are doing the Browns were doing the same thing, except in the case of the Browns, they actually traded away a good Guard for a pass rusher that they didnt need to trade for when the most important thing is to keep Mayfield protected and within the pocket. 

The Browns coaching staff is by far the worst between the two teams. That negates the personnel since the personnel is only as good as the coaching staff and how they use the personnel. 

 

And the Browns had just as many injuries as well. The Browns lost both their starting CB for weeks, lost their TE for the season, their #3 WR was cut, Myles Garrett is now done for the season, Ogunjobi is suspended for weeks, Oliver Vernon is out with injuries, their Safety Eric Murray is out with injuries, their starting OLB Kirksey was on IR the entire season and they replaced him with a 5th round rookie...etc. 

 

You need coaching in order for personnel to mean anything. You need coaching to develop a QB and to put the offense in the best position to succeed. That's not the case when the Browns are a better scoring team outside of the redzone than when it's 1st and goal at the 1 yard line. 

When your offensive coaches cant dial up plays to get a handful of yards in order to get 7 points then this is how you lose games. Im not sure if you're watching the games, but I watch the Browns and Jets and I clearly see the problems on both teams. Neither problem are directly on the QB, however, it is the job of the QB to keep things together the best they can. You go look at both QB's play against the Patriots and you see two players handle adversity quite differently. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

So all 2-time walk on's end up being 2-time Heisman finalist, a Heisman semi-finalist as well as a heisman winner while setting the highest efficiency rate in FBS history? Walk-on's are doing that every season huh? 

Excuses. 

Oh, and before you mention how "Mayfield's teams was staked with talent", let me quickly kill that by stating that during his last season when OU went to the College playoff, every team in the playoff had a top 10 defense...except Oklahoma. Do you know what that defense ranked? 68th in the nation. In otherwords, Baker and that offense carried that entire team into the college playoff.

So there should be no surprise that he's better. What's exactly the problem here? 

Mayfield's regression is not hard to explain. 

Let me quickly kill this overrated notion that "personnel is everything". Mayfield has had 3 head coaches and 3 offensive coordinators in less than 2 years. His current Head coach which was his OC for part of the season last year never held an OC job or HC for an entire season prior to being thrown into both positions within a 12 month span. 

Cleveland has arguably the worst Tackles in the league, along with the Jets. The Browns OC Todd Monkin has been lack luster creating the plays. So horrible in fact that the Mayfield ran one of the best redzone offenses in the league last year and this year it's the worst. On top of having some of the worst Tackles in the league, John Dorsey goes ahead and trades one of his better Oline players in Guard Kevin Zeitler for Oliver Vernon. So Baker mayfield is playing with 3 suspect players at both tackle spots and at the guard spot, along with Bitonio and Tretter. 

If you watched any of the games You'd noticed that the same rotation of the tackles that the Jets are doing the Browns were doing the same thing, except in the case of the Browns, they actually traded away a good Guard for a pass rusher that they didnt need to trade for when the most important thing is to keep Mayfield protected and within the pocket. 

The Browns coaching staff is by far the worst between the two teams. That negates the personnel since the personnel is only as good as the coaching staff and how they use the personnel. 

 

And the Browns had just as many injuries as well. The Browns lost both their starting CB for weeks, lost their TE for the season, their #3 WR was cut, Myles Garrett is now done for the season, Ogunjobi is suspended for weeks, Oliver Vernon is out with injuries, their Safety Eric Murray is out with injuries, their starting OLB Kirksey was on IR the entire season and they replaced him with a 5th round rookie...etc. 

 

You need coaching in order for personnel to mean anything. You need coaching to develop a QB and to put the offense in the best position to succeed. That's not the case when the Browns are a better scoring team outside of the redzone than when it's 1st and goal at the 1 yard line. 

When your offensive coaches cant dial up plays to get a handful of yards in order to get 7 points then this is how you lose games. Im not sure if you're watching the games, but I watch the Browns and Jets and I clearly see the problems on both teams. Neither problem are directly on the QB, however, it is the job of the QB to keep things together the best they can. You go look at both QB's play against the Patriots and you see two players handle adversity quite differently. 

 

 

Ok...I’ll defer to you in that you know a million times more about Cleveland football than I do.  

Also, personnel and coaching go a long long way in helping a QBs success or lack thereof as you acknowledge.  Which has affected both players.

With regard to New England being some kind of bellwether as to how each handle “adversity”, there is a difference between “adversity” and “criminal negligence”, if you watched what happened to Darnold that night there were suggestions that his parents just take him home until either the team is sold, Gase is fired, or he is traded.  It has truly been a beyond awful situation for Darnold so far.  There is no way Mayfield’s situation can compare, although after what you just wrote I don’t doubt that it has been tough at times also. 

Again, time will tell who the better QB is.  But I’m happy with Darnold.

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7 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

If you put Mayfield with the same exact personnel that Darnold unfortunately has surrounding him....I think Mayfield lags Darnold...across the board.

Absolutely 

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5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Actually, im not. Example. Here are all my comments in this thread. Everything below can be backed with career stats, whether college or pro level. 

All of this "race to the bottom talk" (he's better but he has no weapons so it doesnt show) is opinion and not based on anything substantial. You prefer Darnold, that doesnt make Darnold better. My response has been based on things that I can show. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn’t be gloating about Mayfield if I was you he’s mostly been awful this year and in the games they have won he’s game managed like Jay Fiedler 

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9 hours ago, Philc1 said:

I wouldn’t be gloating about Mayfield if I was you he’s mostly been awful this year and in the games they have won he’s game managed like Jay Fiedler 

Instead of misrepresenting what I've been saying, maybe you should go damage control all of that "Quinnen Williams" talk by you this offseason. 

That was almost as bad as your "the offense is good to go" nonsense. 

😋

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13 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

 

With regard to New England being some kind of bellwether as to how each handle “adversity”, there is a difference between “adversity” and “criminal negligence”, if you watched what happened to Darnold that night there were suggestions that his parents just take him home until either the team is sold, Gase is fired, or he is traded.  It has truly been a beyond awful situation for Darnold so far.  There is no way Mayfield’s situation can compare, although after what you just wrote I don’t doubt that it has been tough at times also. 

 

Look, at the end of the day they played many of the same teams. You have an excuse for the Pats game? Cool. Go look at their performances vs Buffalo. You dont want to use that game? Cool. Today the Browns play the Dolphins. If you have an excuse for that game, cool. In a couple weeks the Jets play the Ravens and then compare performances there. If you dont want to use the Ravens, then weeks 13 and 14 the Jets and Browns both play the Bengals....a week apart. Use that game. 

 

My point is this, there's always excuses for Darnold, while at the same time claiming that he's better. How does that work? They are both in bad situations. You're making it seem as if Mayfield isnt. You know who isnt in a bad situation? Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen. You know who are in bad situations? Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold and Baker Mayfield. 

Either you guys are comparing or you're not. It seems like folks compare and then use excuses for every comparison. They both play a ton of the same teams this year. Just go check out the performance from any of the games. 

 

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Again, time will tell who the better QB is.  But I’m happy with Darnold.

Im also happy with Darnold. I wouldnt have been happy with Allen or Rosen. Our conversation really began based on this. You have a personal preference which is cool. But you can prefer Darnold without making it seem like Mayfield is underperforming while in a fantastic situation. He's not. 

Darnold doesnt have to be trash in order for Mayfield to be awesome nor the other way around. The comparisons need to stop, especially if comparisons are made with built-in excuses like with the Patriots. We'll see today how Mayfield plays against Miami. 

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18 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Then what I suggest is that you WAIT until Darnold is that age. 

The problem with this statement is the same everytime someone says it. 

It's not like Darnold is going to continue to develop and Mayfield is just going to stop. 

Look, come back when you have something a bit more tangible.

Do I have a problem with you preferring Darnold? No. Its not like he's terrible. But you guys need to quit the comparison's with the only argument being talent around the QB. Guess what? That's what you're supposed to do. Also, you said that Sam had a stacked team his freshman year. Was he a Heisman finalist? 

 

Exactly.

your suggestion is noted.  We all watch the jets games so we are allowed to speculate on what we have and what we don't have.  I get that Mayfield doesn't have to be bad for darnold to be good.  but I have to agree with JW that if the situations were reversed, Darnold would be having a much better year.  I wanted Mayfield for that draft but that is only because I thought it was a foregone conclusion that darnold was going #1 overall.  Given a redo, I would gladly take darnold over Mayfield at this point. age or not, darnold is going to be a franchise qb.  that is my speculation from what I have seen so far.

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On 11/23/2019 at 12:05 PM, Villain The Foe said:

Mayfield has a stronger arm and is a better player outside of the pocket whether it's running or throwing on the run.

Mayfield was underrated based on his size while folks ignored his production while in college. Meanwhile Darnold was overrated based on his 2016 Rosebowl performance and his comparison to Andrew Luck, while ignoring his regression in 2017.

This isnt new, Mayfield was always a better QB no matter the level. 

 

Hey Dawg, there's no law that says you can't root for the Browns. Woof!  

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On 11/17/2019 at 4:36 PM, Barry McCockinner said:

When Sam has time to throw and steps into it I have a lot of confidence he's completing the pass. A lot. I am concerned about the fact that he seems to have a lot of dumbass in him. Just terrible decisions at the worst times. I know, he's 22.

Jury is still out. We need to protect him.

Just one reason why some of the most encouraging plays in this game are the ones where Sam just threw the ball into the dirt or out to the sidelines. He didn't try to force anything, just gave up on the play and came back the next town, or, in one case, let the field goal unit come out

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2 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Just one reason why some of the most encouraging plays in this game are the ones where Sam just threw the ball into the dirt or out to the sidelines. He didn't try to force anything, just gave up on the play and came back the next town, or, in one case, let the field goal unit come out

He’s learning not to try and win the game on every play. I did note that too.

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6 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Just one reason why some of the most encouraging plays in this game are the ones where Sam just threw the ball into the dirt or out to the sidelines. He didn't try to force anything, just gave up on the play and came back the next town, or, in one case, let the field goal unit come out

Yup, I was very pleased with how smart he played today.

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23 minutes ago, sackdance said:

Hey Dawg, there's no law that says you can't root for the Browns. Woof!  

I had the Browns on the big screen, the Jets on the laptop in order to talk with folks on JN. 

 

It was a great Sunday watching both QB's demolish the competition. 

 

Both Sam and Bakery had arguably the 2 craziest passes today as well. 

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Instead of misrepresenting what I've been saying, maybe you should go damage control all of that "Quinnen Williams" talk by you this offseason. 
That was almost as bad as your "the offense is good to go" nonsense. 


Villain on fire! I picture you like Clark Griswold screaming at the end of Christmas Vacation. “Where’s the Tylenol?” LOL


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app
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2 hours ago, Grandy said:

 

Sam has only had 2 bad games this year every other game he’s been decent to very good

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