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4 minutes ago, RobR said:

One was a third round pick, one was a 6th round pick, the other was the third overall pick in the draft. Big difference. 

So why can’t his play jump next season just like theirs has? 

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15 minutes ago, RobR said:

I sure hope it does but you have to take into account how much you spent on that player. If you get picked third overall you should be making a difference right away just like the players drafted right around his slot.

I can still hold out hope for QW and admit he's having a crap rookie season. He needs to step up the rest of the way and start creating some havoc.

Was Adams playing like he is this season during his rookie yr? 

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11 minutes ago, RobR said:

He was playing a hell of a lot better than QW. QW is being outplayed by an udfa rookie we picked up this year. When is it OK to be concerned?

Concerned?  Seriously?!?  
Sure as hell not 10 games into his rookie yr. How’s 2021. We’ll just agree to disagree.  I just can’t. 

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12 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

QW was a horrible pick. Major bust 

So you’re putting your name on the Jets releasing him today?

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17 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

Don't be silly. He should be traded. He is a rookie so he still has value to other teams that had a high draft grade on him. If jets could get a first rounder for him in the off-season I would do it in a heartbeat. 

The fact is the Jets could have taken anyone in the draft outside of Kyler Murray, and Bosa. A top 3 pick needs to be on the field and performing from day 1. That's the expectation. His 11 tackles is a complete waste of a top 5 pick

Are you happy with his performance thus far?  I'm not impressed at all. I never liked the prospect. Never understood the hype around him as "best player in the draft" and so far he has done nothing to justify his selection.

I’m fine with him. He’s far from a finished product. That was known all along.

If the reports were true of teams calling about him at the deadline and the Jets saying no it sure seems the likelihood of him being traded this offseason is slim. 

Would people be happy if his career mirrored Gerald McCoy? 

McCoy was the #3 pick and he didn’t light it up early in his career

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McCoGe99.htm

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Dennis Waszak Jr. (@DWAZ73)

11/20/19, 11:11 AM

Gase isn’t concerned about Quinnen Williams’ lack of big plays that show up in the stats. Says he’s a young player just a few games into his career who’s still developing. “He’ll find his way to being an impactful player. It just hasn’t happened yet.” #Jets

 

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19 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Boom, I said this earlier in the thread. If he’s not rocking it first year, don’t take him third overall. Josh Allen was the pick here or trade out.

See Gerald McCoys rookie yr. also a #3 pick

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5 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Two wrongs don’t make a right, don’t pick run stuffers #3 overall. 

I didn’t know a DL with close to 60 career sacks in 130 career games is labeled as a run stuffer. But knock yourself out.

By comparison in 110 career games Damon Harrison has 11 career sacks. 

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6 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

Still predominantly a run stuffer, who can rush the passer. He’s joint 28th on the active list, and has taken him 10 years to reach 58.5 sacks.

Look at the Real edge rushers on that list. They have almost double that production. Do I think Q is Gerald McCoy Noooo! 

Even given the fake comparison you set up, comparing him to a far superior player like McCoy. I’d take the Edge every time.

The real comparison is the player we should have Drafted, Josh Allen. Let’s come back over time and compare how they’re doing. Last I looked Josh Allen already has 8 sacks.

Moral don’t take the Run stuffer #3 overall.  

F516B37E-BBDC-4837-9CD2-6F7DC0D3860D.jpeg

QW isn’t an edge rusher. No, you can’t compare him to an edge rusher. 

You can disagree they took the wrong position but you can’t expect him to perform as an edge rusher because he isn’t. 

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10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

There's such a thing as a pass-rushing DT.  And they're highly valuable, because the position is closer in proximity to the QB, thus disrupting the short passing attack.  

If you're going to take a DT/3-4 DE at # 3, he'd better be an incredible athlete.  Aaron Donald, JJ Watt, Fletcher Cox....those are the types of comparisons a DT needs to draw.  

Quinnen Williams is more like a poor man's Gerald McCoy.  Probably a nice all-around DT but certainly not worth taking at 3.  

How do we know 1/2 way through his rookie yr? 

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7 hours ago, BurnleyJet said:

You made my point, we have three good DT’s on this team now, even after trading Leonard Williams, and not counting QW.

Why the hell draft him:-

Lessons learnt Zero:-

Mo Wilkerson.

Quentin Coples.

Sheldon Richardson.

Leonard Williams.

Quinnen Williams. (Really..)

Last Edge Rusher Drafted by the Jets Bryan Thomas (2002!).

Last good one John Abraham (2000!).

QC, SR and Mo Wilk don’t have a thing to do w/the decision maker at that time. 

Sure fans will live in the past all day long. What the hell does QW have to do w/QC?  Nobody in the FO was here when QC was picked. 

who are the three good DTs on the team now? 

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5 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

How can you not?

He isn't suddenly going to become an extraordinarily better athlete any time soon. He just doesn't stand out the way the elite guys do. 

Mo, Sheldon and LW all had more standout moments of dominance in their rookie years where you could see why they were highly rated. Not a single such moment from QW yet - He's clearly not exceptionally athletic for the position or you'd have seen it, even if just in glimpses. 

You can already tell he's a high floor, low ceiling player. A coward's pick. 

LOL.  I bet you knew last yr FF and Shepherd would be playing this well this season. 

ahhh what does Gil Brandt know...

 

Marked his first year as a starter in 2018. He has very good height (6-foot-3) and speed (4.83-second 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine) and boasts great explosion and strength. He should be a very good pass rusher as a tackle. He will overpower you. Athletic and tough, Williams may end up being the best player in the draft. There are lots of Pro Bowland All-Pro honors in his future.

 

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9 minutes ago, RonaldJet said:

I agree, and it’s also why I think lumping in Mo Wilkerson with Sheldon Richardson and Leonard Williams isn’t fair. Say what you want about Wilkerson, but the guy was a legit pass rusher as an interior guy (36 sacks in his first 5 years in the NFL). Too bad he mailed it in once he got paid. 

 

3 sacks in 16 games his rookie yr...

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12 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

The 3rd overall pick in the draft should have more than 11 tackles halfway thru the season. Don't you think? Or is this the production that you envisioned getting from the 3rd pick in the draft? Remember you could have taken anyone outside of Murray and Bosa. 

How's the return on the investment so far? 11 tackles.  You could get more from an undrafted DT. And actually, we have! Kyle Phillips has 18 tackles. So an undrafted player is doing better than the kid we drafted 3rd overall. Sweet.

What makes you think Q is going to be a stud? Because he's shown absolutely nothing so far. 

It’s his rookie yr! Maybe he develops, maybe doesn’t. 

ah screw it. Just cut the loser..freakin waste of a pick. The very first snap he took I knew he was going to be a bust. 

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9 minutes ago, Bomberjet said:

Amazing  - this kid is only 21 years old - Aaron Donald had 2 years on him when he was drafted in 2014 - 13th - so are the 12 other teams fans who passed on him crying the blues like this fan base?

You don't draft a 21 yo kid and expect to be able to push around NFL lineman right overnight.  Geesh, just let the kid grow up a little with experience  and get into the weight room.

I would like anyone to recall a DT drafted so young make it into the pro-bowl their 1st year, like it seems this negative fan base is wanting. 

Go ahead, I'm waiting.....

But he was drafted 3rd overall. He should be beating triple teams, make every tackle and blocking every pass. Bust! 

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3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Measuring up wasn’t the question.  If that’s all you use to judge a player. Competition, or lack of has to be looked at.  Or that either 8 or 9, the response was to he wasn’t a pass rusher. 
 

I wanted Allen but get why Q was drafted, kind of 

Wasn’t Allen a Sr and QW was a redshirt Soph? 

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1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

If this is true, you shouldn’t draft 21 year olds this high.  You hold his rights for 5 years, and then you have to make an expensive choice.  Better to take someone who can make an impact early, and get value out of the less expensive years.  If I wait until he’s 23 to evaluate him, I’m doing so in year 3 of a 5yr deal.  That’s just bad management.

Then the Jets shouldn’t have drafted Darnold and instead drafted Luke Falk

Where are these rules prohibiting who to draft and when?

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What’s wrong with Jets’ Quinnen Williams? For starters, he’s been ‘handicapped’ by Gregg Williams’ defense

Today 6:15 AM 

By Matt Stypulkoski | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Is Quinnen Williams just Leonard Williams 2.0?

That question, or some variation of it, has been haunting Jets fans for the past 11 weeks. For four-plus years, this franchise watched a top-end draft pick struggle to generate the pass rush pressure that was promised. 

For Leonard Williams, those unmet expectations ended with a trade to the Giants last month.

Obviously, Quinnen Williams’ future is far less certain. But so far, the Jets have watched their new, highly-touted rookie defensive tackle limp to just 1.5 sacks through his first eight games. 

So what’s wrong? Why aren’t the numbers coming? Is this already a sign that the rookie isn’t all he was billed to be?

“I really don’t look at that, man," Quinnen said. “I just make sure I do my job. If every day I come in knowing I did my job, knowing I did the everything to the best of my ability in the scheme and the execution of that scheme, I’m good with that.”

That’s all well and good; it’s probably for the best that Quinnen isn’t feeling the mounting pressure of his lagging statistics. Long term, that mentality can only benefit him, especially in the New York incubator.

But let’s be honest: Production matters. Sacks matter. Tackles for loss matter. And right now, Quinnen – who was touted as an interior wrecking ball during the pre-draft process – simply isn’t getting them.

“What’s he have, 1.5 sacks?" NFL Network analyst Brian Baldinger said. “Those aren’t good numbers. Nobody would think that’s what you draft a guy No. 3 for.”

So why, exactly, hasn’t Quinnen found statistical success yet?

For starters, it’s probably worth examining what the No. 3 overall pick is doing – and how that affects what he isn’t.

“They’re the No. 1 rushing defense in football and he’s the reason why," Raiders head coach Jon Gruden said. 

That, first and foremost, is what the Jets are asking Quinnen to do inside defensive coordinator Gregg Williams’ system.

“They play in the 3-4," said Chuck Smith, who tallied 58.5 sacks in nine NFL seasons and now teaches current players via Chuck Smith Training Systems. “So he’s holding up blocks and I’m sure they turn him loose sometimes, but look around the league. The teams that get a lot of sacks are running a four-man front.”

Smith and Baldinger both believe that Quinnen’s skillset would best shine through as part of a four-man front.

Instead, Smith effectively argues, Quinnen is being sacrificed for the greater good within the Jets’ current scheme. Quinnen’s been effective in his given role – eating up offensive linemen, often taking on two blockers to help free up teammates. Indeed, the Jets are holding opponents to less than 3 yards per carry this season, so Quinnen’s big body sure seems to be helping the cause.

But Smith also believes it’d be near impossible for Quinnen to achieve much more that he is under the Jets’ current setup. 

“I know that Jets fans and maybe even the organization doesn’t want to hear it, but it’s a fact,” Smith said. “Quinnen is handicapped, in my opinion, by the defense. You put him in Philly, he’s Fletcher Cox."

It’s not just the basics of the scheme holding Quinnen back, either; how he’s being used within it is affecting him, too.

“He plays on the nose, he plays over the guard, he plays three-technique, he plays defensive end,” Baldinger said. "He’s playing in a variety of spots and I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. It’s really about the team defense versus individuals right now.”

In fact, while that positional flexibility can be a strength, it also “works against the development of Quinnen,” Baldinger said.

Why, then, is Gregg Williams moving Quinnen around the field if it isn’t helping his long-term growth?

Well, because the Jets don’t have the necessary talent to simply line up and rush the passer traditionally. Only two Jets have more than two sacks – outside linebacker Jordan Jenkins (five) and safety Jamal Adams (six). As a result, they have to get creative in order to gin up some pressure.

“Let’s just say they had a Vonn Miller … or Whitney Mercilus or somebody (on the edge),” Baldinger said. "You could really count on him to push the pocket inside and get off like he did at Alabama. You could push it from the outside and you could push it from the inside and make life difficult for the quarterback. But they don’t have that.”

That said, Quinnen’s ails are not all about the scheme and defensive talent. 

There’s another major difference between the Jets and the Crimson Tide: One of them is a dominant force that plays with the lead every single week. The other has three wins in 10 games.

At Alabama, where Quinnen was in the national-championship hunt, he recorded 19.5 sacks last season. This year, on a struggling team, he’s totaled just four quarterback hits this season – one each of the past four weeks – to go with those 1.5 sacks.

That’s probably not a coincidence.

“Opportunity sometimes is about winning on first down on defense and putting people in predictable situations and having the ability to tee off," FOX analyst Howie Long said. “The other factor in having more opportunities to rush the quarterback and tee off is having an offense that puts up big points. Obviously, (the Jets have) an offense that’s finding its way with a young quarterback."

The Jets spent zero time in the lead during two of Quinnen’s eight games this season. In two others – against the Jaguars and Dolphins – the Jets led for a grand total of 13:27. 

There were, however, four games in which the Jets led quite a bit. 

The held an edge for 52:35 against the Bills, but Quinnen played just 35 percent of the defensive snaps in that game, which was his NFL debut. They led the Cowboys for 56:30, which Quinnen turned into a career-high six tackles. They led for 31:59 against the Giants and 57:02 against the Redskins; Quinnen recorded just one total tackle, but did notch two quarterback hits.

That obviously pales in comparison to the Jets’ 12 combined sacks during those two recent victories, but it’s something.

“They’re not exactly up 40 where Quinnen gets to rush the passer,” Smith said. “If Jordan Jenkins was playing with the 49ers, he’d have 10 sacks by now. It’s not as much about Quinnen. To me, the defensive front on the Jets is completely affected by what’s happening in the games. So you can’t evaluate Quinnen Williams or anyone, truly, with the Jets because they’re not playing with the same deck as the other teams.”

So, yes, Quinnen has in large measure fallen victim to circumstance.

But that doesn’t mean his lagging production can be completely washed away. The 21-year-old still bears some responsibility for this underwhelming rookie campaign, too.

“He looks like a kid," Baldinger said. "So you go, ‘Alright, let’s see what he looks like two years from now, with a weight program and learning what nutrition is all about and let’s see this kid transform.’ I’ve seen that happen to other players. He’s far from being a finished product.”

Long compares an NFL player’s career to a pair of elevators. One represents the player’s mental game, the other his physical skills. As a rookie, the physical elevator near the top floor. Sure, as Baldinger points out, it may not be all the way at the penthouse. But youthful energy is a wonderful thing. The other elevator, though, starts in the basement – and can take a year or two to really start rising. 

If you ask Smith, there have already been signs that Quinnen’s mental game is making the climbing.

“He’s recognizing blocks better than he did in the beginning, which is normal," Smith said. “He’s not as hesitant. He’s getting off the ball a lot quicker and he’s more effective.”

That’s a good start. But there’s still plenty left to master.

“I do think he needs an offseason to really work with (Jets defensive line coach) Andre Carter ... on learning how to rush the passer," Baldinger said. "I don’t think he knows how to do it. I think he’s just been so quick off the ball and powerful that he was just able to get to the quarterback like that. You see signs of it, but he’s not going to make a living doing that in this business.”

Easier said than done, obviously. But so long as Quinnen keeps working to speed up that mental elevator, Long still believes as strongly in his potential now as he did before the draft. 

“You have to look at it and say, ‘It’s either real or it’s a mirage,'” Long said. "And there’s no question in my mind that he’s real.”

That was the consensus takeaway from all three analysts: Be patient and the numbers will come.

“Jets fans, cool out,” Smith said. "This cat is young, he’s showing flashes.”

Matt Stypulkoski

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