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Way too early to write him off but it's absolutely fair to point out that he simply hasn't been an impact player this far as a rookie. Considering his level of play in 2018 at Alabama against good competition it's a bit alarming he hasn't been more productive thus far.

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12 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

Quinnen will be better next year after an offseason program. He literally a baby right now but we’ll just let the whining crew whine their eyes out 

He could be better next year. He could also just be a bust. Why are we cry babies for trying to have an intelligent debate about it. He has 11 tackles halfway through his first season. Are you impressed? What makes you think he will be a stud? 

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14 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

Quinnen will be better next year after an offseason program. He literally a baby right now but we’ll just let the whining crew whine their eyes out 

Literally?

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1 hour ago, Joe W. Namath said:

If we knew we were not resigning Leonard Williams, then it is not the worst possible pick.

Should we have gone oline or an offensive player?  Sure.  But being they had no plans to resign Williams, it is not a terrible pick.

I respect your opinion, but really disagree. The move was to try to trade down and if not possible, take Josh Allen.

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Quinnen Williams is exactly who I suspected he would be.  A slow, non-impactful, running stuffing DT who plays a role that can easily be filled by a mid or late rounder.  In fact, he is being outplayed by several mid and late round picks currently on the team.

Can he improve over the next few years?  Sure, but I highly doubt he'll ever come close to reaching the impact a 3rd overall pick should have on a team.

Josh Allen was always the pick to be made here, and it's frustrating that so many amateur fans on a public forum could make the right pick over a so-called expert making millions of dollars and running a professional team.

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QW was not my choice.  He is proving to be JAG.  KP is better and he was a UDFA.  But keep on with the needs time crappola.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

He could be better next year. He could also just be a bust. Why are we cry babies for trying to have an intelligent debate about it. He has 11 tackles halfway through his first season. Are you impressed? What makes you think he will be a stud? 

You’re right. He could be a bust. But it’s like every time someone has a rough rookie season to some they are automatically a bust. Not everyone who has a horrible rookie year is destined for a terrible career. Some ppl actually improve in the following years....and some don’t. How about we just wait and see...

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1 hour ago, DoubleDown said:

making millions of dollars and RUINING a professional team.

better

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14 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

You’re right. He could be a bust. But it’s like every time someone has a rough rookie season to some they are automatically a bust. Not everyone who has a horrible rookie year is destined for a terrible career. Some ppl actually improve in the following years....and some don’t. How about we just wait and see...

Coulda shouda IS

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For the Jets, it was a fourth down from the Buffalo Bills' 1-yard line last Dec. 6. If running back Elijah McGuire hadn't scored with 77 seconds remaining, lifting the Jets to a 27-23 victory, they would have finished 3-13 instead of 4-12. They would've leapfrogged the Arizona Cardinals and 49ers in the 2019 draft order, based on a weaker schedule. With the first pick, they probably would've taken Bosa, who is crushing it.

Williams' job is to make people not wish McGuire hadn't scored.

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14 hours ago, Bomberjet said:

Amazing  - this kid is only 21 years old - Aaron Donald had 2 years on him when he was drafted in 2014 - 13th - so are the 12 other teams fans who passed on him crying the blues like this fan base?

You don't draft a 21 yo kid and expect to be able to push around NFL lineman right overnight.  Geesh, just let the kid grow up a little with experience  and get into the weight room.

I would like anyone to recall a DT drafted so young make it into the pro-bowl their 1st year, like it seems this negative fan base is wanting. 

Go ahead, I'm waiting.....

If this is true, you shouldn’t draft 21 year olds this high.  You hold his rights for 5 years, and then you have to make an expensive choice.  Better to take someone who can make an impact early, and get value out of the less expensive years.  If I wait until he’s 23 to evaluate him, I’m doing so in year 3 of a 5yr deal.  That’s just bad management.

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Too early to write Quinnen off as a disappointment. He does show flashes and the Jets are the #1 team against the rush. That said for the third pick in the draft he has to develop into something special.

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On 11/22/2019 at 11:41 AM, chirorob said:

The problem with drafting someone that high in the draft who needs time to contribute, is he is being paid a significant salary.

His cap hit for this year is almost 6 million, next year it's over 7.  If you are paying a premium draft pick, you need them to contribute rather quickly.  

I'm pretty sure the Jets and just about every other NFL teams don't have a mindset to say ' well we better not draft "X" player because we;re going to pay him too much, don't you think?  Talking about a cap hit for a 1st year rookie is a bit reaching 🙄

 

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from ESPN, as was above..

His pass rush win rate (10.3) ranks 12th among defensive tackles, according to NFL Next Gen Stats. 

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9 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said:

The weight room thing is a little silly

they don’t lift at Bama?

the big jump is your freshman year at college with a real strength program.

hell the Bama strength and conditioning coach makes more than most NFL assistants for a reason

Conditioning is always a key for a rookie - not only lifting but stamina - no one really knows how much Q applied himself in the weight room if he has college grades to worry about - I think the chances are good that he'll focus more on his physical aspects with the Jets.

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14 hours ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

You don't think the 3rd overall pick in the draft should be making an impact year 1? Who cares about his age.  That's completely erroneous. Bosa and Allen are a half year older. I'm sure those 150 extra days or so make them so much more physically mature. Lol.

 

If you want to  make the case that you'd rather have drafted Bosa or Allen, fine - but to make an argument of comparing a DT to DE/OLBs?  C'mon seriously?  The last I checked the Jets are #1 in the league in rushing D. 

This kid IS making an impact.

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1 minute ago, Bomberjet said:

 C'mon seriously?  The last I checked the Jets are #1 in the league in rushing D. 

This means a lot

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22 minutes ago, Bomberjet said:

I'm pretty sure the Jets and just about every other NFL teams don't have a mindset to day ' well we better not draft "X" layer because we;re going to pay him too much, don't you think?  Talking about a cap hit for a 1st year rookie is a bit reaching 🙄

 

If you are paying a player 6+ million a year, dont you think he should be contributing on the field?

Yes, drafting a player top 5 or 6, position should play into it.  Salary is done by draft slot, by year 4 they are making premium dollars.  14 million for a pass rusher is moneyvwell spent, 14 for a run stuffing defensive end, less so.

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15 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Warren Sapp.  22 y/o at draft

N. Suh 23 y/o at draft

Newly drafted defensive lineman can and should make an immediate impact if they are all that they were cracked up to be.  

My bar is 21 yo DT -

Sapp had 3 sacks and 22 total tackles his rookie year - Suh had 10 sacks but he was still 2 years older and had more experience as a DLineman  in college.

So the Jets are near or are at #1 int NFL in rushing D - Q HAS made an impact. 

My point is:

Forget about who they could have drafted - everyone reach for the crying towel , it is what it  is.  He's 21 and wet behind the ears - give him that

It's ludicrous to compare stats at this stage - he's had some tough injuries - and did I mention 1 year college exp. at his position?

Dam this is just an argument that goes to deaf ears, lol....

whatever....

 

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3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Measuring up wasn’t the question.  If that’s all you use to judge a player. Competition, or lack of has to be looked at.  Or that either 8 or 9, the response was to he wasn’t a pass rusher. 
 

I wanted Allen but get why Q was drafted, kind of 

Wasn’t Allen a Sr and QW was a redshirt Soph? 

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1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

If this is true, you shouldn’t draft 21 year olds this high.  You hold his rights for 5 years, and then you have to make an expensive choice.  Better to take someone who can make an impact early, and get value out of the less expensive years.  If I wait until he’s 23 to evaluate him, I’m doing so in year 3 of a 5yr deal.  That’s just bad management.

Then the Jets shouldn’t have drafted Darnold and instead drafted Luke Falk

Where are these rules prohibiting who to draft and when?

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6 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Then the Jets shouldn’t have drafted Darnold and instead drafted Luke Falk

Where are these rules prohibiting who to draft and when?

There aren't rules.  The point being, if you don't expect a guy to perform until year three of a contract, because he's too young, then you should probably aim for guys old enough to perform.

The Darnold/Luke Falk comparison is absurd, as you already know, but there is a problem inherent with Darnold and age/lack of experience.  Darnold is 22 now, young, obviously, and after almost 2 full years, we're no closer to knowing if we should be writing him a 100M check, which, is only now 3 seasons away.  If you say Darnold is too young to be judged, then we have a real problem coming up.

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1 hour ago, Losmeister said:

from ESPN, as was above..

His pass rush win rate (10.3) ranks 12th among defensive tackles, according to NFL Next Gen Stats. 

Not bad for a rookie.

QW is getting more reps in Gregg Williams' defense.  I don't think Gregg would be doing that if he wasn't seeing improvement.  Gregg Williams WANTS Quinnen out there in the trenches!

From Week 11...

Quinnen was on the field for 2 out of every 3 defensive snaps, the most of any Jets DLineman....

1361538060_ScreenShot2019-11-22at10_41_09AM.thumb.png.ef9379570f88bcfb3593d51d43bbbf2b.png

 

 

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4 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Sacks not the big expectation for an interior defensive lineman.  When Suh and Sapp first took the field they were clearly aggressive and very disruptive.  I thought Suh was trying to dismember people. 

Sometimes decapitate as well!  Remember him stomping on some heads.

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On 11/19/2019 at 1:43 PM, ChuckkieB said:

The #3 pick needs to be an impact player in year 1. If you're picking the "best" player at a position at the top of the draft and he doesn't perform at a high level at all in year 1, how can this be viewed as anything but a disappointment? 

You are 100% correct.  Gettleman was made fun of when he said it but really when you have one of the top 3 picks you really should be taking a gold jacket guy.

Here is the issue I see.  Darnold needs a line and number 1 receiver.  These were glaring needs that everyone knew about.  Instead of trading down and drafting players to help develop Darnold they took Quinnen Williams at 3.  If under these circumstances the Jets take a player at 3, he had better immediately produce or it has been a bust or failure.

When you give up what they did to get Darnold you do not take a guy at number 3 the following year who is a project or needs additional time to develop.  This is what people do not get- the Jets, with Darnold and without the picks it cost to obtain him, were not in the position to draft a DT as a "project" and wait for him to develop.  Under these circumstances you needed players to compliment Darnold or a player that will make an immediate impact.

This was a bad pick and for all we know this could be what ultimately led to Maccagnan losing his job.  This is not about being negative, this is about stating the truth and right now based on the state of the team it was a mistake to take Williams at 3.

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28 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

There aren't rules.  The point being, if you don't expect a guy to perform until year three of a contract, because he's too young, then you should probably aim for guys old enough to perform.

The Darnold/Luke Falk comparison is absurd, as you already know, but there is a problem inherent with Darnold and age/lack of experience.  Darnold is 22 now, young, obviously, and after almost 2 full years, we're no closer to knowing if we should be writing him a 100M check, which, is only now 3 seasons away.  If you say Darnold is too young to be judged, then we have a real problem coming up.

To me you sum up why  Q. Williams was such a bad pick.  Based on what you mention it is clear the focus of this past draft should have been obtaining young OL and a receiver so as to allow Darnold to develop.  

The Jets should have traded down to recoup the second rounder they gave up and then used both their first  and second rounder on OL.  They should have forgone the Polite and Wesco picks and taken another OL and receiver or two receivers.

The Jets were not in a situation where they could spend the number 3 pick in the draft on a player that needed time to develop- especially a DT.

Think about it- think of the two OL they could have had if they traded down and they had the 15th pick in the first and second rounds.  Keep Edoga, but use the Polite and Wesco picks on two receivers.  Under these circumstances how much more would we know about Darnold's development?

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3 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

Quinnen Williams is exactly who I suspected he would be.  A slow, non-impactful, running stuffing DT who plays a role that can easily be filled by a mid or late rounder.  In fact, he is being outplayed by several mid and late round picks currently on the team.

Can he improve over the next few years?  Sure, but I highly doubt he'll ever come close to reaching the impact a 3rd overall pick should have on a team.

Josh Allen was always the pick to be made here, and it's frustrating that so many amateur fans on a public forum could make the right pick over a so-called expert making millions of dollars and running a professional team.

I think the move to make was to trade down.  They had no second round pick and should have traded down to get one.

That said I think Allen, Jonah Williams (you  don't know if he still gets injured), Lindstrom or Bradberry would all have made the Jets a  better football team.  Look at the names I mentioned and where they were drafted- the Jets  had no second round pick- based on their needs it was crazy they didn't trade down.

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4 hours ago, JetsFanatic said:

Too early to write Quinnen off as a disappointment. He does show flashes and the Jets are the #1 team against the rush. That said for the third pick in the draft he has to develop into something special.

This

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I don’t think it’s fair to label a draft a mistake within half a season UNLESS they are utterly terrible.  I understand Williams doesn’t have the big sack number  people wanted to see but he has shown good flashes and obviously had made a difference against the run.  I do agree that he needs to turn into a big impact player that’s fair.  However we gotta show some patience. I understand we want instant gratification like Bosa or Allen but that doesn’t mean Williams was the wrong pick. He has also dealt with injuries which I’m sure has had an effect similar to Sam.  My point is let’s give the kid some time before making a decision on him one way or another that’s all

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On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 9:16 PM, Philc1 said:

It was between QW and Josh Allen

 

QW was perceived as the safe pick.  Allen “had no moves” or so I was told you can look up the thread I started pre draft about Allen and got called a retard because I wanted to draft him

 

 

Btw I still think QW will be a stud

I think it also has to do with fit on the team. A pass rusher without inside presence wastes it because the defense would rarely be in obvious passing downs. That's why I would pick a DT vs. an OLB at that spot if I'm the GM. I advocate building from the inside out, building both lines first and foremost. Good DTs help stop the run and the pass by keeping offenses one-dimensional.

Now, if it's a choice between a OLB and a CB, well, that's another hard choice because I think you get better value from a pro-bowl CB than you do a OLB. But that's a tough choice. I'd probably take the CB because if I have a good DL and average LBs my defense would probably benefit greater from enhanced coverage.

I also feel that I can get pass rushing from scheme and blitz. I can do that if I have a great secondary even without an edge rusher. In general, I wouldn't take an edge rusher at #3 unless I had most of the other pieces already.

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What’s wrong with Jets’ Quinnen Williams? For starters, he’s been ‘handicapped’ by Gregg Williams’ defense

Today 6:15 AM 

By Matt Stypulkoski | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com

Is Quinnen Williams just Leonard Williams 2.0?

That question, or some variation of it, has been haunting Jets fans for the past 11 weeks. For four-plus years, this franchise watched a top-end draft pick struggle to generate the pass rush pressure that was promised. 

For Leonard Williams, those unmet expectations ended with a trade to the Giants last month.

Obviously, Quinnen Williams’ future is far less certain. But so far, the Jets have watched their new, highly-touted rookie defensive tackle limp to just 1.5 sacks through his first eight games. 

So what’s wrong? Why aren’t the numbers coming? Is this already a sign that the rookie isn’t all he was billed to be?

“I really don’t look at that, man," Quinnen said. “I just make sure I do my job. If every day I come in knowing I did my job, knowing I did the everything to the best of my ability in the scheme and the execution of that scheme, I’m good with that.”

That’s all well and good; it’s probably for the best that Quinnen isn’t feeling the mounting pressure of his lagging statistics. Long term, that mentality can only benefit him, especially in the New York incubator.

But let’s be honest: Production matters. Sacks matter. Tackles for loss matter. And right now, Quinnen – who was touted as an interior wrecking ball during the pre-draft process – simply isn’t getting them.

“What’s he have, 1.5 sacks?" NFL Network analyst Brian Baldinger said. “Those aren’t good numbers. Nobody would think that’s what you draft a guy No. 3 for.”

So why, exactly, hasn’t Quinnen found statistical success yet?

For starters, it’s probably worth examining what the No. 3 overall pick is doing – and how that affects what he isn’t.

“They’re the No. 1 rushing defense in football and he’s the reason why," Raiders head coach Jon Gruden said. 

That, first and foremost, is what the Jets are asking Quinnen to do inside defensive coordinator Gregg Williams’ system.

“They play in the 3-4," said Chuck Smith, who tallied 58.5 sacks in nine NFL seasons and now teaches current players via Chuck Smith Training Systems. “So he’s holding up blocks and I’m sure they turn him loose sometimes, but look around the league. The teams that get a lot of sacks are running a four-man front.”

Smith and Baldinger both believe that Quinnen’s skillset would best shine through as part of a four-man front.

Instead, Smith effectively argues, Quinnen is being sacrificed for the greater good within the Jets’ current scheme. Quinnen’s been effective in his given role – eating up offensive linemen, often taking on two blockers to help free up teammates. Indeed, the Jets are holding opponents to less than 3 yards per carry this season, so Quinnen’s big body sure seems to be helping the cause.

But Smith also believes it’d be near impossible for Quinnen to achieve much more that he is under the Jets’ current setup. 

“I know that Jets fans and maybe even the organization doesn’t want to hear it, but it’s a fact,” Smith said. “Quinnen is handicapped, in my opinion, by the defense. You put him in Philly, he’s Fletcher Cox."

It’s not just the basics of the scheme holding Quinnen back, either; how he’s being used within it is affecting him, too.

“He plays on the nose, he plays over the guard, he plays three-technique, he plays defensive end,” Baldinger said. "He’s playing in a variety of spots and I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. It’s really about the team defense versus individuals right now.”

In fact, while that positional flexibility can be a strength, it also “works against the development of Quinnen,” Baldinger said.

Why, then, is Gregg Williams moving Quinnen around the field if it isn’t helping his long-term growth?

Well, because the Jets don’t have the necessary talent to simply line up and rush the passer traditionally. Only two Jets have more than two sacks – outside linebacker Jordan Jenkins (five) and safety Jamal Adams (six). As a result, they have to get creative in order to gin up some pressure.

“Let’s just say they had a Vonn Miller … or Whitney Mercilus or somebody (on the edge),” Baldinger said. "You could really count on him to push the pocket inside and get off like he did at Alabama. You could push it from the outside and you could push it from the inside and make life difficult for the quarterback. But they don’t have that.”

That said, Quinnen’s ails are not all about the scheme and defensive talent. 

There’s another major difference between the Jets and the Crimson Tide: One of them is a dominant force that plays with the lead every single week. The other has three wins in 10 games.

At Alabama, where Quinnen was in the national-championship hunt, he recorded 19.5 sacks last season. This year, on a struggling team, he’s totaled just four quarterback hits this season – one each of the past four weeks – to go with those 1.5 sacks.

That’s probably not a coincidence.

“Opportunity sometimes is about winning on first down on defense and putting people in predictable situations and having the ability to tee off," FOX analyst Howie Long said. “The other factor in having more opportunities to rush the quarterback and tee off is having an offense that puts up big points. Obviously, (the Jets have) an offense that’s finding its way with a young quarterback."

The Jets spent zero time in the lead during two of Quinnen’s eight games this season. In two others – against the Jaguars and Dolphins – the Jets led for a grand total of 13:27. 

There were, however, four games in which the Jets led quite a bit. 

The held an edge for 52:35 against the Bills, but Quinnen played just 35 percent of the defensive snaps in that game, which was his NFL debut. They led the Cowboys for 56:30, which Quinnen turned into a career-high six tackles. They led for 31:59 against the Giants and 57:02 against the Redskins; Quinnen recorded just one total tackle, but did notch two quarterback hits.

That obviously pales in comparison to the Jets’ 12 combined sacks during those two recent victories, but it’s something.

“They’re not exactly up 40 where Quinnen gets to rush the passer,” Smith said. “If Jordan Jenkins was playing with the 49ers, he’d have 10 sacks by now. It’s not as much about Quinnen. To me, the defensive front on the Jets is completely affected by what’s happening in the games. So you can’t evaluate Quinnen Williams or anyone, truly, with the Jets because they’re not playing with the same deck as the other teams.”

So, yes, Quinnen has in large measure fallen victim to circumstance.

But that doesn’t mean his lagging production can be completely washed away. The 21-year-old still bears some responsibility for this underwhelming rookie campaign, too.

“He looks like a kid," Baldinger said. "So you go, ‘Alright, let’s see what he looks like two years from now, with a weight program and learning what nutrition is all about and let’s see this kid transform.’ I’ve seen that happen to other players. He’s far from being a finished product.”

Long compares an NFL player’s career to a pair of elevators. One represents the player’s mental game, the other his physical skills. As a rookie, the physical elevator near the top floor. Sure, as Baldinger points out, it may not be all the way at the penthouse. But youthful energy is a wonderful thing. The other elevator, though, starts in the basement – and can take a year or two to really start rising. 

If you ask Smith, there have already been signs that Quinnen’s mental game is making the climbing.

“He’s recognizing blocks better than he did in the beginning, which is normal," Smith said. “He’s not as hesitant. He’s getting off the ball a lot quicker and he’s more effective.”

That’s a good start. But there’s still plenty left to master.

“I do think he needs an offseason to really work with (Jets defensive line coach) Andre Carter ... on learning how to rush the passer," Baldinger said. "I don’t think he knows how to do it. I think he’s just been so quick off the ball and powerful that he was just able to get to the quarterback like that. You see signs of it, but he’s not going to make a living doing that in this business.”

Easier said than done, obviously. But so long as Quinnen keeps working to speed up that mental elevator, Long still believes as strongly in his potential now as he did before the draft. 

“You have to look at it and say, ‘It’s either real or it’s a mirage,'” Long said. "And there’s no question in my mind that he’s real.”

That was the consensus takeaway from all three analysts: Be patient and the numbers will come.

“Jets fans, cool out,” Smith said. "This cat is young, he’s showing flashes.”

Matt Stypulkoski

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We drafted a 4-3 3 technique and are playing him in every spot on the line In a 3-4. Why does this team do this lol 

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I'm a homer sometimes.

But, if the defense is playing well, the rush defense is like a wall and the pass rush is meh instead of putrid, I'm ok with the selection.

IMO, I thought he was drafted as NT/DT. What was anyone realistically expecting from an inside defensive lineman? I expected pressure. I expected the odd play every once in awhile based on his physical talent. And that's exactly what he's done

And let's not forget the entire defense is new to everyone. So, it's not like we plugged him into the Sack Exchange. The whole defense is starting to play very well. Who cares if it's Jamal Adams or Q Williams getting the sacks?

Look, I'm not suggesting that I wouldn't want better numbers. but I'm willing to let a couple of seasons occur before I bury the guy, especially when we see Shepherd finally showing signs.

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just like Sam, he's a really good kid. Hope it pnas out. Its legit to worry.

But.. we dont make the transactions...   in the end we hope for the best... ( except for Darron Lee, but that is just me and my own little thang)

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