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Per PFF the top grades OL on the NYJ


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15 hours ago, rangerous said:

not surprised by the grading.  about the only good thing to say is if each player has enough talent they will get better as a group as they play more together.  thus far this oline has been musical chairs.  another thing is putting edoga at Lt was just not putting him at his best position to succeed.  

Remember Adrian Clark and Anthony Clement ??? That was probably the worst line or at least in contention for one of the worst.

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9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In a way even the better/best ones in this group are inflated because they're all subpar. 

Take a particular play where Beachum would have given up a sack after 2.8 seconds. Except he had the benefit, on that play, of Kalil giving up a sack - or causing Darnold to get flushed out wide right - after just 1.5 seconds. In terms of getting graded on that play, Beachum comes out with a better (if not an outright good/perfect) grade not because he did or would have done well, but rather because someone else was even worse. He didn't give up QB pressure on that play (let alone an outright sack). 

When you have a couple of train wrecks like Kalil & Edoga, it indirectly benefits the PFF grades of everyone else on the line not named Kalil or Edoga. Put Beachum on a line with 4 good starters and his grade would necessarily drop even if his level of play is unchanged. 

Edoga is a disaster area on the outside.  No feet.  They should try him out on the interior.   

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10 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Remember Adrian Clark and Anthony Clement ??? That was probably the worst line or at least in contention for one of the worst.

i also remenber some guy road grader white(i think).  nickname by boomer.  he got run over repeatedly.  i think it may have been in a raider game.

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10 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Remember Adrian Clark and Anthony Clement ??? That was probably the worst line or at least in contention for one of the worst.

Clarke was one of the worst players to ever play in the NFL.

Faneca and Woody transformed that line from one of the worst to arguably the best. Incredible. 

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20 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In a way even the better/best ones in this group are inflated because they're all subpar. 

Take a particular play where Beachum would have given up a sack after 2.8 seconds. Except he had the benefit, on that play, of Kalil giving up a sack - or causing Darnold to get flushed out wide right - after just 1.5 seconds. In terms of getting graded on that play, Beachum comes out with a better (if not an outright good/perfect) grade not because he did or would have done well, but rather because someone else was even worse. He didn't give up QB pressure on that play (let alone an outright sack). 

When you have a couple of train wrecks like Kalil & Edoga, it indirectly benefits the PFF grades of everyone else on the line not named Kalil or Edoga. Put Beachum on a line with 4 good starters and his grade would necessarily drop even if his level of play is unchanged. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

How much worse can he be there, right? Except if the goal is going to be lots of zone blocking he kind of needs feet on the inside as well, no?

Feet are always good to have.  A man blocking scheme usually calls for more athletic guys up front.  In "zone", it works pretty much they way it sounds.  A given lineman has a zone assignment and he blocks who ever comes into his zone.  In "man" the lineman's assignment is a specific guy.  He has to take on that defender even if he twists/shifts/stunts so he'll have to do more moving around.   Though, in either a man or zone blocking scheme, you see some of both. 

There are a few players that come to mind that were drafted with the expectation of playing OT and they did poorly, BUT they moved inside and made a good contribution.

Most everyone remembers Tony Mandarich.  He is seen as one of the biggest busts of all time, but he played for 8+ years and he did a decent job when he moved inside.  

The Raiders also drafted the 6' 7" Robert Gallery to play on the outside.  He didn't do too well there, but he made a decent go of it when they moved him inside...

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On 11/20/2019 at 8:54 PM, Philc1 said:

That’s the league now there are very few pure pocket passers left plus offensive line play quality has decreased on all teams not just the jets 

 

The gimmick air raid offenses in college have hurt OL development 

So, I live out here in Texas, huge HS football town, which has won state multiple times.

From 1st grade through HS, every team runs the same offense, out of the shotgun.   The lineman have never blocked from anything other than a shotgun.  Then these kids go to college, play in the same type of offense, again only using shotgun.

When they get to the pros, they are limited in what they are able to do.   Couple that with the fact they now have very limited practices per year where they are allowed contact, plus all time freak athletes playing defense, and you have O Line Play going down hill fast.

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2 hours ago, rangerous said:

i also remenber some guy road grader white(i think).  nickname by boomer.  he got run over repeatedly.  i think it may have been in a raider game.

Dwayne White.

Good on rookie contract.   Signed extension for nice money.  IMMEDIATELY got real fat, and became terrible.   It was like he used his entire signing bonus on the buffet line.

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16 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Feet are always good to have.  A man blocking scheme usually calls for more athletic guys up front.  In "zone", it works pretty much they way it sounds.  A given lineman has a zone assignment and he blocks who ever comes into his zone.  In "man" the lineman's assignment is a specific guy.  He has to take on that defender even if he twists/shifts/stunts so he'll have to do more moving around.   Though, in either a man or zone blocking scheme, you see some of both. 

There are a few players that come to mind that were drafted with the expectation of playing OT and they did poorly, BUT they moved inside and made a good contribution.

Most everyone remembers Tony Mandarich.  He is seen as one of the biggest busts of all time, but he played for 8+ years and he did a decent job when he moved inside.  

The Raiders also drafted the 6' 7" Robert Gallery to play on the outside.  He didn't do too well there, but he made a decent go of it when they moved him inside...

I know what zone blocking is. I'm saying he can't just engage his big body, and latch onto someone and not let go. Like Carpenter was able to do when he was manning up on someone, but was useless in zone blocking before and after. My point was that he needs feet more if he's got to play an area and react more to a pass rusher coming into his area. No feet = someone runs right by him, and that goes for blocking the edge or inside. In other words, it may fix nothing. 

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16 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Dwayne White.

Good on rookie contract.   Signed extension for nice money.  IMMEDIATELY got real fat, and became terrible.   It was like he used his entire signing bonus on the buffet line.

Yeah wasn't he playing at 330lbs at one point?

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16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I know what zone blocking is. I'm saying he can't just engage his big body, and latch onto someone and not let go. Like Carpenter was able to do when he was manning up on someone, but was useless in zone blocking before and after. My point was that he needs feet more if he's got to play an area and react more to a pass rusher coming into his area. No feet = someone runs right by him, and that goes for blocking the edge or inside. In other words, it may fix nothing. 

I dig.  It always helps to have good feet.  Man or zone.  

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On 11/21/2019 at 9:17 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

We need 5 new starting Offensive Linemen.  5.  

We were talking about this at the last home game. I can't remember ever watching a team that actually needs five new starters next year.

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Agree Jets need 5 new starting OL, though maybe Edoga might work out down the line; he's likely been rushed into starting way too early this year and maybe will benefit from offseason condtioning. It'll probably take 2-3 years to fully rebuild the line.

For sure, 3 new starters for next year, at least 2 via the draft.  Ideally, I'd draft LT in round 1 and C in round 2 or 3, and count on both to start.  Then, draft a developmental OL in round 4 or 5.  Maybe that guy can start in a year, or at least be a decent, inexpensive backup.

For sure, draft an OL in round 1. Trade down if the top two OT (Thomas and Wirfs, probably) are gone. Adding another 1st round pick either via trade down or trading away a vet player would be really nice.  Work in a WR, CB, or edge in rounds 2-3 also.

Hopefully add a guy in free agency, too, most likely a G or RT.  But probably 2 guys on the current roster will be starting next year.  Resigning Beachum (for RT) for a year or two would be okay as a stopgap, but as bad as he's looked so far, I'm hoping that Edoga can improve enough to start at RT or RG next year.

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