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Jets defensive scheme holding Q Williams back

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9 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Copy/paste the same article and replace Quinnen Williams with Mohammad Wilkerson, Quienten Coples, Sheldon Richardson, Leonard Williams. It's always the same.

yup, we have been drafting and signing 4-3 players for a decade when we play a 3-4 all that time.  Just lunacy by the GMS and also the D coaching as well.

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12 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Copy/paste the same article and replace Quinnen Williams with Mohammad Wilkerson, Quienten Coples, Sheldon Richardson, Leonard Williams. It's always the same.

It’s like they’re trying to make up for missing on Sapp. 

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Ya just cannot win!

What happened to BPA?

 

(at #3 overall, Q just might have been)

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Granted he’s not suited for a 3-4. That’s on Macc drafting him. He’s a nice guy but like I keep saying, Josh Allen was the pick.

Premium positions. QB, Edge, Corner, Left Tackle, Wide receiver.

 

 

 

 

 

Every other position...

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1 minute ago, LRJets said:

Ya just cannot win!

What happened to BPA?

 

(at #3 overall, Q just might have been)

Josh Allen was, and still is. BPA is ok when you’ve filled the premium positions.

An average QB, Edge, Corner, LT is worth more than another position.

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https://www.sny.tv/jets/news/nfl-draft-scouting-report-how-quinnen-williams-fits-with-jets/306597010

"Gregg Williams normally runs a 3-4 scheme, but he noted earlier this offseason that he won't necessarily deploy a set scheme this season. It could be a hybrid that sees a 4-3 setup as well. That won't matter for Quinnen Williams, though. With his dual threat in the run game and pass rush, Williams should be able to adapt to any defense he is put in. "

 

So is it the scheme Holding him back. Or not? He supposed to be able to play in any scheme.

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4 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

https://www.sny.tv/jets/news/nfl-draft-scouting-report-how-quinnen-williams-fits-with-jets/306597010

"Gregg Williams normally runs a 3-4 scheme, but he noted earlier this offseason that he won't necessarily deploy a set scheme this season. It could be a hybrid that sees a 4-3 setup as well. That won't matter for Quinnen Williams, though. With his dual threat in the run game and pass rush, Williams should be able to adapt to any defense he is put in. "

 

So is it the scheme Holding him back. Or not? He supposed to be able to play in any scheme.

We run just as much 4-3 schemes if not more than the 3-4. I wish people would look at our formations before the snap instead of spouting off that we are a 3-4 team. Utter nonsense.

This is just another article giving QW excuses for playing like crap.

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QW's upside is what's alluring because he's only 21.  Not many his age playing as a starter on DL , many just sit or are in the practice squad. Like Baldinger says, give him time to work on his strength and stamina and refine his diet - the more he plays the better he'll be.

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57 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

Copy/paste the same article and replace Quinnen Williams with Mohammad Wilkerson, Quienten Coples, Sheldon Richardson, Leonard Williams. It's always the same.

Couldn't be more right. 

I don't care what position you're in - We would see explosive plays here and there - plays where you say - Wow, this guy can be dominant.  Where he completely blows someone up...He doesn't have it - at least I haven't seen it

Sheldon flashed some of that - but he was just a knucklehead.

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1 hour ago, Freemanm said:
  1. JETS

What’s wrong with Jets’ Quinnen Williams? For starters, he’s been ‘handicapped’ by Gregg Williams’ defense

Today 6:15 AM
Quinnen Williams

AP Photo/Steve Luciano

New York Jets defensive tackle Quinnen Williams has gotten off to a slow start, statistically speaking, this season. But why?

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Is Quinnen Williams just Leonard Williams 2.0?

That question, or some variation of it, has been haunting Jets fans for the past 11 weeks. For four-plus years, this franchise watched a top-end draft pick struggle to generate the pass rush pressure that was promised.

 

For Leonard Williams, those unmet expectations ended with a trade to the Giants last month.

Obviously, Quinnen Williams’ future is far less certain. But so far, the Jets have watched their new, highly-touted rookie defensive tackle limp to just 1.5 sacks through his first eight games.

So what’s wrong? Why aren’t the numbers coming? Is this already a sign that the rookie isn’t all he was billed to be?

“I really don’t look at that, man," Quinnen said. “I just make sure I do my job. If every day I come in knowing I did my job, knowing I did the everything to the best of my ability in the scheme and the execution of that scheme, I’m good with that.”

 

That’s all well and good; it’s probably for the best that Quinnen isn’t feeling the mounting pressure of his lagging statistics. Long term, that mentality can only benefit him, especially in the New York incubator.

But let’s be honest: Production matters. Sacks matter. Tackles for loss matter. And right now, Quinnen – who was touted as an interior wrecking ball during the pre-draft process – simply isn’t getting them.

“What’s he have, 1.5 sacks?" NFL Network analyst Brian Baldinger said. “Those aren’t good numbers. Nobody would think that’s what you draft a guy No. 3 for.”

So why, exactly, hasn’t Quinnen found statistical success yet?

For starters, it’s probably worth examining what the No. 3 overall pick is doing – and how that affects what he isn’t.

“They’re the No. 1 rushing defense in football and he’s the reason why," Raiders head coach Jon Gruden said.

That, first and foremost, is what the Jets are asking Quinnen to do inside defensive coordinator Gregg Williams’ system.

 

“They play in the 3-4," said Chuck Smith, who tallied 58.5 sacks in nine NFL seasons and now teaches current players via Chuck Smith Training Systems. “So he’s holding up blocks and I’m sure they turn him loose sometimes, but look around the league. The teams that get a lot of sacks are running a four-man front.”

Smith and Baldinger both believe that Quinnen’s skillset would best shine through as part of a four-man front.

Instead, Smith effectively argues, Quinnen is being sacrificed for the greater good within the Jets’ current scheme. Quinnen’s been effective in his given role – eating up offensive linemen, often taking on two blockers to help free up teammates. Indeed, the Jets are holding opponents to less than 3 yards per carry this season, so Quinnen’s big body sure seems to be helping the cause.

But Smith also believes it’d be near impossible for Quinnen to achieve much more that he is under the Jets’ current setup.

“I know that Jets fans and maybe even the organization doesn’t want to hear it, but it’s a fact,” Smith said. “Quinnen is handicapped, in my opinion, by the defense. You put him in Philly, he’s Fletcher Cox."

 

It’s not just the basics of the scheme holding Quinnen back, either; how he’s being used within it is affecting him, too.

“He plays on the nose, he plays over the guard, he plays three-technique, he plays defensive end,” Baldinger said. "He’s playing in a variety of spots and I don’t know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing. It’s really about the team defense versus individuals right now.”

In fact, while that positional flexibility can be a strength, it also “works against the development of Quinnen,” Baldinger said.

Why, then, is Gregg Williams moving Quinnen around the field if it isn’t helping his long-term growth?

Well, because the Jets don’t have the necessary talent to simply line up and rush the passer traditionally. Only two Jets have more than two sacks – outside linebacker Jordan Jenkins (five) and safety Jamal Adams (six). As a result, they have to get creative in order to gin up some pressure.

 

“Let’s just say they had a Vonn Miller … or Whitney Mercilus or somebody (on the edge),” Baldinger said. "You could really count on him to push the pocket inside and get off like he did at Alabama. You could push it from the outside and you could push it from the inside and make life difficult for the quarterback. But they don’t have that.”

That said, Quinnen’s ails are not all about the scheme and defensive talent.

There’s another major difference between the Jets and the Crimson Tide: One of them is a dominant force that plays with the lead every single week. The other has three wins in 10 games.

At Alabama, where Quinnen was in the national-championship hunt, he recorded 19.5 sacks last season. This year, on a struggling team, he’s totaled just four quarterback hits this season – one each of the past four weeks – to go with those 1.5 sacks.

That’s probably not a coincidence.

“Opportunity sometimes is about winning on first down on defense and putting people in predictable situations and having the ability to tee off," FOX analyst Howie Long said. “The other factor in having more opportunities to rush the quarterback and tee off is having an offense that puts up big points. Obviously, (the Jets have) an offense that’s finding its way with a young quarterback."

 

The Jets spent zero time in the lead during two of Quinnen’s eight games this season. In two others – against the Jaguars and Dolphins – the Jets led for a grand total of 13:27.

There were, however, four games in which the Jets led quite a bit.

The held an edge for 52:35 against the Bills, but Quinnen played just 35 percent of the defensive snaps in that game, which was his NFL debut. They led the Cowboys for 56:30, which Quinnen turned into a career-high six tackles. They led for 31:59 against the Giants and 57:02 against the Redskins; Quinnen recorded just one total tackle, but did notch two quarterback hits.

That obviously pales in comparison to the Jets’ 12 combined sacks during those two recent victories, but it’s something.

“They’re not exactly up 40 where Quinnen gets to rush the passer,” Smith said. “If Jordan Jenkins was playing with the 49ers, he’d have 10 sacks by now. It’s not as much about Quinnen. To me, the defensive front on the Jets is completely affected by what’s happening in the games. So you can’t evaluate Quinnen Williams or anyone, truly, with the Jets because they’re not playing with the same deck as the other teams.”

 

So, yes, Quinnen has in large measure fallen victim to circumstance.

But that doesn’t mean his lagging production can be completely washed away. The 21-year-old still bears some responsibility for this underwhelming rookie campaign, too.

“He looks like a kid," Baldinger said. "So you go, ‘Alright, let’s see what he looks like two years from now, with a weight program and learning what nutrition is all about and let’s see this kid transform.’ I’ve seen that happen to other players. He’s far from being a finished product.”

Long compares an NFL player’s career to a pair of elevators. One represents the player’s mental game, the other his physical skills. As a rookie, the physical elevator near the top floor. Sure, as Baldinger points out, it may not be all the way at the penthouse. But youthful energy is a wonderful thing. The other elevator, though, starts in the basement – and can take a year or two to really start rising.

If you ask Smith, there have already been signs that Quinnen’s mental game is making the climbing.

 

“He’s recognizing blocks better than he did in the beginning, which is normal," Smith said. “He’s not as hesitant. He’s getting off the ball a lot quicker and he’s more effective.”

That’s a good start. But there’s still plenty left to master.

“I do think he needs an offseason to really work with (Jets defensive line coach) Andre Carter ... on learning how to rush the passer," Baldinger said. "I don’t think he knows how to do it. I think he’s just been so quick off the ball and powerful that he was just able to get to the quarterback like that. You see signs of it, but he’s not going to make a living doing that in this business.”

Easier said than done, obviously. But so long as Quinnen keeps working to speed up that mental elevator, Long still believes as strongly in his potential now as he did before the draft.

“You have to look at it and say, ‘It’s either real or it’s a mirage,'” Long said. "And there’s no question in my mind that he’s real.”

That was the consensus takeaway from all three analysts: Be patient and the numbers will come.

“Jets fans, cool out,” Smith said. "This cat is young, he’s showing flashes.”

Matt Stypulkoski may be reached at mstypulkoski@njadvancemedia.com. Follow him on Twitter @M_Stypulkoski. Find NJ.com Jets on Facebook.

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I read the article but haven't read any responses.

All I'm going to say is that Chuck Smith knows more about DL play than anyone in this thread, myself included.  By a lot.

 

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3 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I read the article but haven't read any responses.

All I'm going to say is that Chuck Smith knows more about DL play than anyone in this thread, myself included.  By a lot.

 

Read the article again because there is so much inconsistencies in it. They talk about him being miscast in a 3-4 yet point out that he is playing all over the line including 3 tech. Let me ask you, how is that even possible? Chuck Smith might know more about Dline play than anyone here but it doesn't change the fact that the schleps here watch every snap of the Jets. How many do you think Smith has watched? I'm guessing not that many.

The article even says he had 19.5 sacks last year for Bama. Everyone knows that is false yet the author puts it out there. It's a joke of an article trying to justify why QW has been bad so far during his rookie season.

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11 minutes ago, RobR said:

Read the article again because there is so much inconsistencies in it. They talk about him being miscast in a 3-4 yet point out that he is playing all over the line including 3 tech. Let me ask you, how is that even possible? Chuck Smith might know more about Dline play than anyone here but it doesn't change the fact that the schleps here watch every snap of the Jets. How many do you think Smith has watched? I'm guessing not that many.

The article even says he had 19.5 sacks last year for Bama. Everyone knows that is false yet the author puts it out there. It's a joke of an article trying to justify why QW has been bad so far during his rookie season.

Neither Smith or Baldinger are quoted as saying that he's miscast.  The author says they think, based on what I don't know.  Not sure why he'd use direct quotes for everything else, but not the actual confirmation from these people that would support his claim.

The author of the article seems to be a dunce, Smith and Baldinger certainly are not.  That is all I'm saying.

It's not just scheme, but it's also not simply because he sucks either.  Both stances are equally ridiculous by whomever takes them.

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1 hour ago, BurnleyJet said:

Josh Allen was, and still is. BPA is ok when you’ve filled the premium positions.

An average QB, Edge, Corner, LT is worth more than another position.

So much revisionist history here

 

Most of you guys wanted Glass Shoulder Jonah or  Ed Oliver.  I’m surprised all the Ed Oliver lovers are so quiet

 

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21 minutes ago, RobR said:

Read the article again because there is so much inconsistencies in it. They talk about him being miscast in a 3-4 yet point out that he is playing all over the line including 3 tech. Let me ask you, how is that even possible? Chuck Smith might know more about Dline play than anyone here but it doesn't change the fact that the schleps here watch every snap of the Jets. How many do you think Smith has watched? I'm guessing not that many.

The article even says he had 19.5 sacks last year for Bama. Everyone knows that is false yet the author puts it out there. It's a joke of an article trying to justify why QW has been bad so far during his rookie season.

He had 19.5 tackles for a loss with 8 sacks last year at Alabama.

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12 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The author of the article seems to be a dunce, Smith and Baldinger certainly are not.  That is all I'm saying.

It's not just scheme, but it's also not simply because he sucks either.  Both stances are equally ridiculous by whomever takes them.

No matter how likable Baldinger is he is definitely a dunce when it  comes to analysis like this. He has too cover every team in the league and breaks down a couple of plays. That's it. Don't forget he also told us how good Polite was and brewed up Baby Gronk. 

Regarding the second part I don't see the board as one way or the other.....at least not yet. He might ball out next year and erase some of the doubters but it is blatantly obvious that he is struggling as a rookie, especially one drafted that high.  

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7 minutes ago, Joejet said:

He had 19.5 tackles for a loss with 8 sacks last year at Alabama.

I know that....apparently someone should inform the author of that article. 

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13 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

If the jets are smart they trade QW for a first in next year’s draft

We both know the Jets are not smart. 

 

12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

So much revisionist history here

 

Most of you guys wanted Glass Shoulder Jonah or  Ed Oliver.  I’m surprised all the Ed Oliver lovers are so quiet

 

Most people wanted Josh Allen, Myself included. I wanted no part of Ed Oliver or QW. Jonah was viewed by most as a reach @3.

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16 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

So much revisionist history here

 

Most of you guys wanted Glass Shoulder Jonah or  Ed Oliver.  I’m surprised all the Ed Oliver lovers are so quiet

 

You didn’t even know who Josh Allen was a month before the draft.  

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1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

You didn’t even know who Josh Allen was a month before the draft.  

He also wanted to draft QW and now wants to trade him. 

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3 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

 

Most people wanted Josh Allen

No he was called Maybin 2.0 here

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6 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

You didn’t even know who Josh Allen was a month before the draft.  

 

442320C4-7CCD-44D0-B4D8-91179FB46618.jpeg

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Here is somewhat of a revelation....

A base 34 defense often acts like a 43 or "46" for that matter (Rex Ryan).  The compelling factor that differentiates the two is not the size, shape and speed of the d-line guys.  It is the flexibility you are afforded with your schemes, alignments, formations, coverage at the second level and so on.  It gives the DC options to change-up on the fly and disguise what is coming next.  

Suggesting that a 34 defense is holding QW back from being noticeably affective is simply not believable. 

These guys are football players, not aircraft parts... 

Klecko made the Pro Bowl at DE, DT and NT.

Before Kris Jenkins came to play NT for Rex, he was tearing it up in a base 43

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8 minutes ago, RobR said:

He also wanted to draft QW and now wants to trade him. 

Oh that’s right you were a huge Ed Oliver guy.  His 20 tackles and 2 sacks this season have really changed football

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3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

 

442320C4-7CCD-44D0-B4D8-91179FB46618.jpeg

So you hopped on the train after it got rolling and he won those SEC defensive player of the week awards.  Congrats. 

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4 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Here is somewhat of a revelation....

A base 34 defense often acts like a 43 or "46" for that matter (Rex Ryan).  The compelling factor that differentiates the two is not the size, shape and speed of the d-line guys.  It is the flexibility you are afforded with your schemes, alignments, formations, coverage at the second level and so on.  It gives the DC options to change-up on the fly and disguise what is coming next.  

Suggesting that a 34 defense is holding QW back from being noticeably affective is simply not believable. 

These guys are football players, not aircraft parts... 

Agree it’s not the scheme QW just needs time to develop

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Just now, sec101row23 said:

So you hopped on the train after it got rolling and he won those SEC defensive player of the week awards.  Congrats. 

Wah!

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