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Lamar Jackson: MERGED

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points-

1) Ravens were an adrift, middling team on the decline with a losing record for the last 3.5 yrs. THEN LJ.

2) LJ and his rare talent make the Ravens good, not the other way around.

All teams "cater" to the teams talent. Notice how Edelman isnt running go routes all day?

How often Lev Bell got the ball in Pitts?

2) Gase isn't a miserable failure cos his record with Miami was slightly below .500 
(doesn't mean I expect him to be a very good HC, just that I feel we hafta wait more to see)

 

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I remember when Michael vick stormed the league.  This guy will be good until he gets crushed by a few 240lb guys. the qb position cannot take that beating over the long term. RG3 is a close example as well.  All these small fast QBs are great until they aren't as fast, then they are just small...

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17 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

points-

1) Ravens were an adrift, middling team on the decline with a losing record for the last 3.5 yrs. THEN LJ.

2) LJ and his rare talent make the Ravens good, not the other way around.

All teams "cater" to the teams talent. Notice how Edelman isnt running go routes all day?

How often Lev Bell got the ball in Pitts?

2) Gase isn't a miserable failure cos his record with Miami was slightly below .500 
(doesn't mean I expect him to be a very good HC, just that I feel we hafta wait more to see)

 

Stop it T0m Shane!!!!

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2 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

This guy will be good until he gets crushed by a few 240lb guys.

why isnt this the big idea about every single RB who has ever played in the NFL??

or every smaller possession WR? Edelman, Crowder, Welker

He's 6'2" 215lb...   he ain't small....

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We shall see if it is sustainable. It has not been for the other QBs like Jackson. Yeah, I know, he's different. We will see. That said it could work all the way to a Super Bowl. I doubt it though, someone will bottle him up and the offense will sputter.

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11 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

We shall see if it is sustainable. It has not been for the other QBs like Jackson. Yeah, I know, he's different. We will see. That said it could work all the way to a Super Bowl. I doubt it though, someone will bottle him up and the offense will sputter.

Any offense can get bottled up and sputter, no? 

I am NOT saying HE CANNOT BE STOPPED!

When he got drafted he said " They gonna get a Super Bowl outta me, believe that."

I like his shot of at least GETTING there... maybe not this year, but...INT % below 2 is good

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Cam isnt doing great these days, hes 6'5 245. I kind of agree that he will be dominant until the hits start adding up.

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4 hours ago, Losmeister said:

why isnt this the big idea about every single RB who has ever played in the NFL??

or every smaller possession WR? Edelman, Crowder, Welker

He's 6'2" 215lb...   he ain't small....

IDK, maybe because of padding or being more vulnerable? Just remember seeing Vick change the QB position until he didn't.  Also, Cam is the size of an olineman and he isn't doing so well these days.  Maybe the QB position requires more abilities being perfect?  

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The best example for LJ is not Michael Vick or Cam Newton.  It is Steve Young because LJ is a much better quarterback than Vick or Cam Newton ever was.    If he never runs for another yard he can still be a very, very good quarterback in this league for years to come.   Just like as Steve Young matured he ran less and less but still had the ability to get yards with his feet if it were necessary.   What we are witnessing with Jackson is Young 2.0

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45 minutes ago, whodeawhodat said:

IDK, maybe because of padding or being more vulnerable? Just remember seeing Vick change the QB position until he didn't.  Also, Cam is the size of an olineman and he isn't doing so well these days.  Maybe the QB position requires more abilities being perfect?  

Vick did change the position.   If he didn't have dog fighting issues no telling how his career would have gone.  That said, I always felt he was a better runner than quarterback.    Same with Newton; it was like having a running back play the quarterback position.  In Jackson it is like you have real quarterback but with the skills of an elite running back.  

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5 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

The best example for LJ is not Michael Vick or Cam Newton.  It is Steve Young because LJ is a much better quarterback than Vick or Cam Newton ever was.    If he never runs for another yard he can still be a very, very good quarterback in this league for years to come.   Just like as Steve Young matured he ran less and less but still had the ability to get yards with his feet if it were necessary.   What we are witnessing with Jackson is Young 2.0

How about RG3? Saw him throwing 50 yard passes on one knee during his rehab.  my point is that all these qbs that can shake and bake wind up eventually getting caught by a big dude and are never the same.  I enjoy watching these guys and don't wish injury on anyone but you can cast the die only so many times before you get bit.

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3 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

The best example for LJ is not Michael Vick or Cam Newton.  It is Steve Young because LJ is a much better quarterback than Vick or Cam Newton ever was.    If he never runs for another yard he can still be a very, very good quarterback in this league for years to come.   Just like as Steve Young matured he ran less and less but still had the ability to get yards with his feet if it were necessary.   What we are witnessing with Jackson is Young 2.0

I think it’s way too early to ordain him the next Young. Eventually, some team, probably the Patriots, will scheme up a defensive game plan that will force him to throw because they’ve stymied the run.

It’ll be interesting to watch unfold 

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7 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

I think it’s way too early to ordain him the next Young. Eventually, some team, probably the Patriots, will scheme up a defensive game plan that will force him to throw because they’ve stymied the run.

It’ll be interesting to watch unfold 

I don't think young ever had designed plays to run the ball, he scrambled as one of the best. That's all I was saying, when you have designed plays where your QB essentially becomes a RB, it isn't sustainable in the long run.

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Vick did change the position.   If he didn't have dog fighting issues no telling how his career would have gone.  That said, I always felt he was a better runner than quarterback.    Same with Newton; it was like having a running back play the quarterback position.  In Jackson it is like you have real quarterback but with the skills of an elite running back.  


Vick played street ball. He deliberately used the rush threat to create chaos in the secondary and took advantage when he could, otherwise he just ran. What Vick could not do was read a defense to save his life. Jackson is a smart QB in The pocket and uses the rush attack as a secondary threat if the receivers are covered. It is only then that he takes advantage of the chaos of the D hesitating on whether to play the run or pass.


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11 hours ago, Losmeister said:

Anyway, Balt went 5-11, 8-8, 9-7 and hadnt made the playoffs in 3 yrs.

(roughly equivalent to what Gase did in Miami
and Gase is a done nothing LOSER as a HC according to popular opinion)

Balt was 4-5 w/ Flacco last year. So LJ walked into a team that LOST MORE THAN WON for the last 3.5yrs.

And have gone 15-3 since.

deer communication GIF by National Geographic Channel

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On 11/25/2019 at 10:07 PM, T0mShane said:

“Positional responsibility integrity“ is the most incel/misogynist/racist/Chik-fil-A eating/NHL fan/I want to speak to your manager/Dean Cain movie watching/white no-college crosstab-ass grievance terminology I’ve ever seen 

CUmSTane

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The anti lamar confederacy needs to make up their minds. Is Lamar a WR instead of a QB, or is he a RB instead of a QB?

The same crew that said Lamar should be a WR because of his athleticism, told us that WR Tanehill should be a QB because of his athleticism and moved Josh Allen up their draft boards because of his athleticism (because it certainly wasn’t due to his QB skills).

Why is athleticism a big plus for a white QB and a negative for a black QB? Rumor has it that Dak prescott is reluctant to run when the opportunity presents itself because of this tired old notion.

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21 hours ago, Apache 51 said:

 Lamar>Cam, Vick........................provided they keep avoid popping him.

Agreed but Cam was never a good runner and Vick went to jail. 

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Jackson is having a phenomenal season. Love watching this guy. It’s probably only a matter of time before he gets hurt unfortunately. I think we’ve seen running QBs in the past and eventually they end up hurt. Dude is just talented with his arm and his legs. Vick was not as accurate a passer as Jackson. He is a legit passer who can ball like a RB. Harbaugh has a system that’s working and defenses are having a hard time stopping it. So whats the problem?

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The anti lamar confederacy needs to make up their minds. Is Lamar a WR instead of a QB, or is he a RB instead of a QB?

The same crew that said Lamar should be a WR because of his athleticism, told us that WR Tanehill should be a QB because of his athleticism and moved Josh Allen up their draft boards because of his athleticism (because it certainly wasn’t due to his QB skills).

Why is athleticism a big plus for a white QB and a negative for a black QB? Rumor has it that Dak prescott is reluctant to run when the opportunity presents itself because of this tired old notion.

Why does race enter into everything ?

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2 hours ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Why does race enter into everything ?

I’m not into bringing race into it, but i have no other explanation for the Lamar detractors.

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On 11/25/2019 at 10:03 PM, Spoot-Face said:

I wonder what Ultraviolet Thunder thinks about Josh Allen?

Plot Twist: UV Thunder is actually Joe Burrow 

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7 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The anti lamar confederacy needs to make up their minds. Is Lamar a WR instead of a QB, or is he a RB instead of a QB?

The same crew that said Lamar should be a WR because of his athleticism, told us that WR Tanehill should be a QB because of his athleticism and moved Josh Allen up their draft boards because of his athleticism (because it certainly wasn’t due to his QB skills).

Why is athleticism a big plus for a white QB and a negative for a black QB? Rumor has it that Dak prescott is reluctant to run when the opportunity presents itself because of this tired old notion.

Personally, I think people don't articulate their pros and cons properly when it comes to athletic QB's, and I personally think it has less to do with race, but that may be wishful thinking.

To me, the fundamental question is, can a QB be a good QB when they can't run the football as a major part of their game, either because of injury, or opposing defenses shutting it down.

Athleticism is always really good, the ability to run is really good, but IMO if a QB can't throw the ball consistently to beat a decent team when the running game is not there, they are not a good QB for the long term.

Allen is a terribly inaccurate QB. I think if he can't run the ball consistently, he will struggle. Lamar is a more accurate passer than Allen, but I don't know if he will be able to beat a team if he can't run the ball. I feel pretty confident that Allen can't.

With Jackson right now, not only can he run the ball really effectively, so do his backs. They have a nasty run blocking line that is getting huge push off the line. Opposing defenses have to pick their poison, and its making for a fantastic, fun to watch offense.

His style of play has never lend itself to longetivity. It would be fantastic for the league if he can, and it would open up a new style of offense.

When a QB runs the ball, they are one hit away from a big injury, that is not ideal for your QB.

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I’m not into bringing race into it, but i have no other explanation for the Lamar detractors.

For me, you have to accomplish something. Ya know, like Lundquist.

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I’m not into bringing race into it, but i have no other explanation for the Lamar detractors.

Race for some no question. Also though, hes been highly successful and become a talking head darling. People hated on Baker after his rookie year. People have always hated on Brady. Theres still cretins around today who call him a system QB.

Some people like to tear down those that are getting raved about. Just how it works. Particularly when theres a rational to do so.

With Lamar, he has been phenomenal but I think most reasonable people can agree that his play style has a history of not being very sustainable. 

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Just now, CTM said:

Race for some no question. Also though, hes been highly successful and become a talking head darling. People hated on Baker after his rookie year. People have always hated on Brady. Theres still cretins around today who call him a system QB.

Some people like to tear down those that are getting raved about. Just how it works. Particularly when theres a rational to do so.

With Lamar, he has been phenomenal but I think most reasonable people can agree that his play style has a history of not being very sustainable. 

Success in the NFL has a history of not being very sustainable.

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8 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The anti lamar confederacy needs to make up their minds. Is Lamar a WR instead of a QB, or is he a RB instead of a QB?

The same crew that said Lamar should be a WR because of his athleticism, told us that WR Tanehill should be a QB because of his athleticism and moved Josh Allen up their draft boards because of his athleticism (because it certainly wasn’t due to his QB skills).

Why is athleticism a big plus for a white QB and a negative for a black QB? Rumor has it that Dak prescott is reluctant to run when the opportunity presents itself because of this tired old notion.

It's definitely a race-driven dynamic. Also, if that rumor about Dak is true, he's an idiot. Lamar Jackson is proof positive of that. 

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36 minutes ago, CTM said:

Race for some no question. Also though, hes been highly successful and become a talking head darling. People hated on Baker after his rookie year. People have always hated on Brady. Theres still cretins around today who call him a system QB.

Some people like to tear down those that are getting raved about. Just how it works. Particularly when theres a rational to do so.

With Lamar, he has been phenomenal but I think most reasonable people can agree that his play style has a history of not being very sustainable. 

This was happening to Lamar coming out of high school. Only one school recruited him to be a QB, and even there he was asked to try running routes. Way before he became a talking head darling. 

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This thread has done surprisingly well, given the overall subject matter.

I'm pleasantly surprised, JetNation.

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I get the comparisons to the treatment of Josh Allen, but Josh Allen has a cannon.  It's not like he is an RB playing QB.  Jackson also has an arm, but his motion is/was nowhere near as pretty.

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