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Lamar Jackson: MERGED

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So I think Lamar is having a great year, but I'm not ready to anoint him as the next great Qb... Yet

Obviously I'd say he's the front runner for MVP this year. I'm just not sure his style of play is sustainable long term. all it takes is 1 player to roll up on his ankle and then he becomes a one dimensional qb. Without his running threat I'm not so sure how good of a pocket qb he really is.

Don't forget last year in the playoffs his first half stat sheet he had more fumbles and interceptions (3) than completions. He only has 1 300 yard game passing in his career. 

In the NFL, so much changes from year to year. Goff looked like a stud last year. He had 32 TDS 12 ints with 4500+ yards, and a super bowl appearance. And this year he has 11tds with 12 ints and hasn't thrown a TD pass in about a month. Last year you could argue Goff was a top 5 qb, and now everyone is questioning if he's worth the contract the Rams just gave him. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Eyes Of Adam said:

No doubt, there are not a lot of people with Jacksons combo of traits. The other thing that will help is if a player like Jackson has sustained success in the NFL and doesn't get hurt with his style of play. A huge part of his effectiveness right now is his running threat, if he is not as much of a threat to run the ball, his game changes quite a bit. If he can have a long term career and keep doing what he is doing, he can change the QB position for the better for future players.

the ratio of runs and passes has already dramatically shifted between last year and this year...  

he still among the best BOTH YEARS AT NOT THROWING INTs

HE HAS THROWN MORE TDS THAN ANY OTHER QB THIS YEAR, save one, with whom he is tied....

see above harvard study

 

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On 11/27/2019 at 2:43 PM, Apache 51 said:

For me, you have to accomplish something. Ya know, like Lundquist.

As a huge NYR fan, not sure if this is sarcasm . Will get back to you if  he gives up a goal high to the glove hand AGAIN 30 seconds into today's Bruins game. 

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any QB who is having an MVP season can have his ankle rolled on....

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I remember a long time ago when Jared Goff was many's flavor of the day as the next greatest QB.

Everyone wants to anoint today based on small sample sizes. Then, when the league adjusts, some are able to adapt, some are not. That may be a qb problem or a system problem. Sometimes both.

This is neither a statement of what Jackson is or may be. Just the knee jerk reaction of fans.

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1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

any QB who is having an MVP season can have his ankle rolled on....

Of course. But if you take off you are more likely to expose yourself to a devastating hit. 

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Lamar Jackson is a superstar NFL player, he is fun to watch. 

Wish him all the best except when he's playing the NY Jets. 

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19 minutes ago, Bugg said:

At high school and college, coaches prefer a QB who follows instructions doesn't freelance too often. And really there are not a  lot of QBs at those levels who can be judicious about when to take off nor audible. Almost none are smart enough to be their own OC; close to zero, may not be any . And a prep QB who often changes the play is going to find himself on the bench. 

The Jets to me look like they will be fine with Darnold, no regrets. Still would love to see how their scouting determined picking Adams over Watson or Mahomes made any sense. 

There's a great, old Joe Montana story about how when he was in high school, the QB who started ahead of him was also the starting ILB and also the coach's son who couldn't throw a spiral. Montana was the best passer on the team, but he was smaller and, obviously, not related to the coach, so the coach kept trying to push Montana to play receiver to keep the heat off of his trash son. At some point, IIRC, the coach's son gets injured, Montana comes in at QB, and history is written. These jagaloon, over-empowered high school coaches get to dictate a lot of what happens to these prospects, and it makes you wonder how many Lamar Jacksons there might be, or will be, because these coaches all grew up in the 70's and 80' and think that Phil Simms was the model QB.

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2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

There's a great, old Joe Montana story about how when he was in high school, the QB who started ahead of him was also the starting ILB and also the coach's son who couldn't throw a spiral. Montana was the best passer on the team, but he was smaller and, obviously, not related to the coach, so the coach kept trying to push Montana to play receiver to keep the heat off of his trash son. At some point, IIRC, the coach's son gets injured, Montana comes in at QB, and history is written. These jagaloon, over-empowered high school coaches get to dictate a lot of what happens to these prospects, and it makes you wonder how many Lamar Jacksons there might be, or will be, because these coaches all grew up in the 70's and 80' and think that Phil Simms was the model QB.

70's and 80's mentality of many prominent football coaches was to make the best athletes linebackers.

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5 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Of course. But if you take off you are more likely to expose yourself to a devastating hit. 

Ther are far fewer 300+lbs dudes OUTSIDE the pocket...

i hereby adviocate that all our WR immediately throw themsleves to ground after catching the ball..

running with a football in the NFL is not sustainable...just ask frank gore

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Just now, Losmeister said:

Ther are far fewer 300+lbs dudes OUTSIDE the pocket...

i hereby adviocate that all our WR immediately throw themsleves to ground after catching the ball..

running with a football in the NFL is not sustainable...just ask frank gore

Frank Gore's career (and he has had major knee injuries), is the exception, rather than the rule of sustained careers at RB.

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Just now, Scott Dierking said:

Frank Gore's career (and he has had major knee injuries), is the exception, rather than the rule of sustained careers at RB.

and chrebet and toon got concussed outta the league...  shrug...     it's football...

continue rooting against the most exciting player in the league...  

who we passed on to have Sam Darnold...who is winning THAT comparison??

 

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9 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

and chrebet and toon got concussed outta the league...  shrug...     it's football...

continue rooting against the most exciting player in the league...  

who we passed on to have Sam Darnold...who is winning THAT comparison??

 

Where do you get that people are "rooting against". Did I miss a poll? Not sure what you are arguing.

Not sure what your "winning" argument is.

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8 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Where do you get that people are "rooting against". Did I miss a poll? Not sure what you are arguing.

Not sure what your "winning" argument is.

my bad.

all the 'its not sustainable"     folks around here...   just sounds like the old boy network.

"Winning argument" what did we give away so we could get Sam while we coulda NOT GIVEN IT AWAY

and selected LJ??

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31 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Lamar Jackson is a superstar NFL player, he is fun to watch. 

Wish him all the best except when he's playing the NY Jets. 

Which is 2 weeks yikes

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4 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

my bad.

all the 'its not sustainable"     folks around here...   just sounds like the old boy network.

"Winning argument" what did we give away so we could get Sam while we coulda NOT GIVEN IT AWAY

and selected LJ??

LJ landed in the perfect spot.  He would have failed in NY if asked to just be a pocket passer.  Gase would not have been the right coach for LJ.  Harbaugh is.  Baltimore is a way better organization and decided to build an offense around LJ.  The Jets are an abysmal organization that would have forced him to be something he is not and then the media/fans would have crushed him to dust.

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39 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Lamar Jackson is a superstar NFL player, he is fun to watch. 

Wish him all the best except when he's playing the NY Jets. 

(EXCUSE THE CAPS)

 

HOPEFULLY  NAMATH  ONCE  IN THE NEAR FUTURE GOD WILLING IF THERE IS A GOD THE JETS WILL BE CONTENDING FOR THE AFC TITLE.

 

THEREFORE WE WILL NOT LUV MR LAMAR AT ALL.

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On 11/27/2019 at 2:59 PM, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Success in the NFL has a history of not being very sustainable.

Without cheating. 

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On 11/27/2019 at 6:55 AM, Sonny Werblin said:

Why is athleticism a big plus for a white QB and a negative for a black QB? Rumor has it that Dak prescott is reluctant to run when the opportunity presents itself because of this tired old notion.

Dak looks slow to me and he doesn't have pocket awareness. In the few Boys games I've watched I don't recall any designed QB runs called and I think that's due to what the coaches see during practice. When I watch Dak athleticism is the last thing that comes to mind and it has nothing to do with his race. Not all black players have above average speed and natural athletic abilites.

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Any idiot would know EXACTLY how to play this player. It;s not like he was secretly ambidextrous and then Ravnes busted him out and he started throwing passes with both hands. 
Landed in a perfect spot... ??? a team who hadnt made playoffs in 3.5 yrs with a losing record....
until he put them on his back.
Ya know what the LA RAms long ago put Eric Dickerson  waayyyyy behind th eline and just kept giving him the ball cos he was obvioulsy a special player....   


Perfect spot as in a stable organization that might change an entire offense for him. At this point I don’t give a crap if he fails or succeeds. He will be competition for the Jets in the future and I hope they crush him into the turf. When we need his services then I will be his fan. Otherwise I won’t care what he does.

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7 minutes ago, DJF71 said:

a stable organization

had a longer term hx of success while being demonstrably unsuccessful over the past 3.5..

same HC who is at the very least a GOOD NFL HC. true. but half this board would already have canned Gase..

providing the opposite of stability for the already annointed QB.

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On 11/26/2019 at 6:04 PM, whodeawhodat said:

I don't think young ever had designed plays to run the ball, he scrambled as one of the best. That's all I was saying, when you have designed plays where your QB essentially becomes a RB, it isn't sustainable in the long run.

Young in the USFL was a running demon and even his first few seasons in Tampa he ran a great deal.   As I stated over the course of his.career Jackson will probably run less and less but for now, there isn't a better runner in football than LJ so when you have a weapon, you use it.

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Jackson is young and super athletic, he’s in a great place to be a young Q.B. Fantastic Oline, Defence, his OC is Greg Roman.

He ran this offence in S.F in 2012 with Colin Kaepernick, this also took the league by storm.

Lamar Jackson should be MVP for 2019. If he does this again in 2020 then we have something. Can he play this way for another 10 year? - All I know for now is that the Raven’s are at a different level to everyone else. The 49er game is going to be great to watch.

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Lamar is exciting, but until we see someone of his playstyle do it for a long period of time I don't think it will last.

Too many times we see these guys light the league on fire only to burn out in 2-3 seasons.

I was super scared of taking Allen because he was such a developmental project but he sure looks 100x better than Sam so far. It figures Jets get the 4rth best QB in the class when we had a pick at the top 2.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

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The key difference with Jackson is that many of the QBs he's often compared to regarding longevity of success, is those who tended to be more run-first players.  For example, Vick throughout his entire Atlanta career was far more of a runner than a passer, and only ever changed that once in Philly.  Jackson, on the other hand, may run plenty, but I think he shows that as his second choice more often than not.  The question becomes that, if Jackson were able to get contained in the pocket by an opposing D, could he be successful despite that?  He's definitely shown signs that he could be (despite D's so far failing in their attempts to do such), which makes all the difference to whether his great success could simply be schemed against as was claimed.

Now, in the end, injuries can still of course be an issue, as is the case for any player throughout the NFL.  Running as a QB will give more opportunities for injury, which tends to be the point of concern.  I see some try to compare that to WRs and RBs, but there's a pretty major difference to be considered there, which is that the overwhelming majority of NFL WRs and RBs suffer injuries throughout the careers, and it's to be expected.  Teams tend to be able to scheme around the lack of players at those positions, even if they are among the very best.  Such a reality never exists at QB, as the position doesn't have enough talent at it to fill the entire league with quality starters, never mind properly address backups.  It's the general irreplaceable nature of QBs that will always have people prioritizing their health over that of players at any other position.

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17 hours ago, funaz said:

Lamar is exciting, but until we see someone of his playstyle do it for a long period of time I don't think it will last.

Too many times we see these guys light the league on fire only to burn out in 2-3 seasons.

I was super scared of taking Allen because he was such a developmental project but he sure looks 100x better than Sam so far. It figures Jets get the 4rth best QB in the class when we had a pick at the top 2.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Except the Jets didn't get the 4th best QB. Baker has thrown 14 / 13 and his line and receivers are 100 times better than Sam's.

Lamar and Josh are both on teams that are way more talented.

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