Sam Darnold is a “special” QB

[greenwichjetfan]

5 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

This is really funny coming from the guy who jumped in the Mayfield thread every time he lost a game, and was just blaming Prescott for the Cowboys losing streak.

1) I haven’t posted in that thread in almost two months and literally haven’t commented about Baker in any thread in that span because it’s incredibly stale. But I’ll make an exception since you can’t seem to go 1 post without directly or indirectly referencing him: No matter how much you try to hi-jack every thread to throw shade on Sam to further your transparent Baker agenda, Baker still ******* sucks. Go to a browns forum. 

2) I didn’t blame Dak for losing a single game. Try reading the posts you’re going to quote.

3) Your wannabe villain act needs serious work. 

[14 in Green]

19 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

1) I haven’t posted in that thread in almost two months and literally haven’t commented about Baker in any thread in that span because it’s incredibly stale. But I’ll make an exception since you can’t seem to go 1 post without directly or indirectly referencing him: No matter how much you try to hi-jack every thread to throw shade on Sam to further your transparent Baker agenda, Baker still ******* sucks. Go to a browns forum. 

2) I didn’t blame Dak for losing a single game. Try reading the posts you’re going to quote.

3) Your wannabe villain act needs serious work. 

?

[greenwichjetfan]

24 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

?

Maybe the best post you’ve ever made on this forum. 

[14 in Green]

34 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Maybe the best post you’ve ever made on this forum. 

?

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

?

 

Not even worth addressing your posts at this point.

You answer relevant questions that you don't have good responses to with emojis.

Then every 100th post you play it off with "I really hope Darnold does well".

[Jet_Engine1]

[14 in Green]

34 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Not even worth addressing your posts at this point.

You answer relevant questions that you don't have good responses to with emojis.

Then every 100th post you play it off with "I really hope Darnold does well".

Don’t confuse my response to you with what I left for the other guy below your post.

We’ve never argued over anything before, no reason to start now.

 

[Philc1]

On 12/3/2019 at 9:27 AM, Warfish said:

That's like saying we have prime Bell.  Bell > Davis, btw.  

Lets clear up a few things.  The Davis Ramsey had in 2002 was not "prime", it was in decline and misused by Spurrior (sound familiar?  Bell might say so).  He was moved the next year to Carolina where he had a amazing comeback year his first year there, then he never produced again.  

Samuels and Janson were good linemen, but the three interior linemen where horrible.  Darnold also didn't have to deal with the rotating QB carousel of Steve "QB is just another position, I can change them out whenever" Spurrior.  Sam just had Mono.

Also, lets not pretend you guys were watching Redskins games in 2002.  We all know you weren't.  You know names you've heard, you have no idea how good or not they were in those years.

Again, the point here is not one of direct comparison of circumstances.  Is Gase better than Spurrior?  Is Anderson better than end of career Gardner?  Is Griffith/Herndon better than Walter Rasby or Zeron Flemister?  Our O-line is worse, but both (despite names you think you've heard of) were pretty bad.  Pretty crap teams all around frankly.  

The point is that a guy we believe is great has, so far, produced almost exactly the same as a guy we all call (myself included) a bust.  We ALL think Sam will improve, but if I told you on draft day that by the end of Sam's second season his statline would be the same as Patrick f'ign Ramsey, yall would have laughed me out of the forum.  yet, here we are.

As covered in slats thread, a QB is in fact limited by their circumstances.  We, as a team, must improve and quickly if we're to get anything out of Sam's cheap rookie deal.  We must put Sam in a position to succeed, and Sam needs to do better frankly, and be more consistent.  It's going to be perhaps the most vital offseason in decades in NY this coming year, because we want Sam to succeeded, not be the next castoff failed first rounder.

 

Prime Stephen Davis > Aging Bell running behind a bad OL

 

Your Sam hatred is out of control

 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

Your Sam hatred is out of control

Do you need a safe space?

[Grandy]

Darnold is a very talented prospect. 

Darnold has shown many positives, he can do many things that only a handful of QB's could hope to pull off.

Darnold has shown negatives as well. Some due to a terribly inept O-line, or personal kinks in his game

Darnold is our best shot of getting "The Guy" in decades, but our org is doing their best to make sure that doesn't happen. If he was on the Sanchez team, I don't think his status as a Franchise QB would be disputed. 

 

[14 in Green]

17 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Darnold is a very talented prospect. 

Darnold has shown many positives, he can do many things that only a handful of QB's could hope to pull off.

Darnold has shown negatives as well. Some due to a terribly inept O-line, or personal kinks in his game

Darnold is our best shot of getting "The Guy" in decades, but our org is doing their best to make sure that doesn't happen. If he was on the Sanchez team, I don't think his status as a Franchise QB would be disputed. 

 

Good post.

None of us actually know how this will turn out with Darnold. The only thing I would say is your point about him doing well on the team Sanchez played on kind of supports the “Sam is the type of QB who needs everything around him to be good” theory.

Sanchez wasn’t even that good, so yeah, Darnold might be better. However we gave up a ton to get Sam, and I think most of us expected more from him then what Sanchez brought.

I think when we drafted him, we were expecting a game changer, he hasn’t been that. Maybe people like me were expecting too much, I guess.

[Warfish]

21 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Darnold is a very talented prospect. 

Check.

21 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Darnold has shown many positives

Check.

21 minutes ago, Grandy said:

.......he can do many things that only a handful of QB's could hope to pull off.

  

21 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Darnold has shown negatives as well. Some due to a terribly inept O-line, or personal kinks in his game

Check.

21 minutes ago, Grandy said:

Darnold is our best shot of getting "The Guy" in decades, but our org is doing their best to make sure that doesn't happen.

Check.

21 minutes ago, Grandy said:

If he was on the Sanchez team, I don't think his status as a Franchise QB would be disputed. 

We'll never know.  But we WILL know how he'll do under the new Douglas regime next year.

[Grandy]

1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

Good post.

None of us actually know how this will turn out with Darnold. The only thing I would say is your point about him doing well on the team Sanchez played on kind of supports the “Sam is the type of QB who needs everything around him to be good” theory.

Sanchez wasn’t even that good, so yeah, Darnold might be better. However we gave up a ton to get Sam, and I think most of us expected more from him then what Sanchez brought.

I think when we drafted him, we were expecting a game changer, he hasn’t been that. Maybe people like me were expecting too much, I guess.

He's not a game changer, but he can be. He's still younger than most QB's coming into the league. However we have seen him elevate the team around him. In the 6 games he's missed so far, we've had 1 passing TD and didn't win a single one.

I think we'd see that "game changer" QB even if our o-line was average. Every time we've given him just adequate protection, he's really impressed. 

Most QB's that are considered good would be struggling in his current situation. A decentcomparison right now is Matt Stafford. When comparing Darnold's averages this season to Stafford's 5th in the league, they're almost identical with similar situations as well. 2 talented guys, with a not so talented supporting cast (minus Bell and Megatron). 

[Losmeister]

2 years in .....still a PROSPECT....   no hate just a simple fact. for me, that means AS OF NOW... wasnt worth the capital.

it may still turn out...    we'll see

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

2 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Good post.

None of us actually know how this will turn out with Darnold. The only thing I would say is your point about him doing well on the team Sanchez played on kind of supports the “Sam is the type of QB who needs everything around him to be good” theory.

Sanchez wasn’t even that good, so yeah, Darnold might be better. However we gave up a ton to get Sam, and I think most of us expected more from him then what Sanchez brought.

I think when we drafted him, we were expecting a game changer, he hasn’t been that. Maybe people like me were expecting too much, I guess.

You had the 4 games to close out last season when he was ranked the Top Passer in the NFL (the time when I thought the "light had gone on" which can be debated due to some uneven play although that uneven play this year is happening playing on maybe the worst roster in the NFL, so very tough to evaluate I would think for even the best scouts in the league, much less us)....then you had a below average Opening Day game by Darnold, in a game the Jets should have won, that 99% of teams win with a late 16 zip lead, although we know he had Mono and a fever....then 3 games on the shelf lost by Luke Falk...comes back, Darnold is Player of the Week in a win vs a mediocre Dallas team....now 3 straight losses to New England, Jax and Miami...ALL games where Darnold did not have more than 1 second to throw....that was followed by 3 wins, 2 vs doormats and a mediocre Raider team...........I would think that in games where Darnold has more than 1 second to throw the trajectory of his play seems to be on the upside.

[Warfish]

To put a bow on this, now that he has finished his 23rd game, the full "Darnold vs. Ramsey" production comparison is done:

A few points:  First, no, I am not saying Sam Darnold IS Patrick Ramsey.  I AM saying that their production in their first 23 games (the point where Ramsey was effectively finished in the NFL) is remarkably similar.  You can think of that what you will frankly, I find it interesting.

Second, no I am not saying Darnold and Ramsey are equal prospects, Darnold was and is a materially better prospect and talent.  Which may say something, if you think about it, that the two are so close production wise. 

Third, lets not bullsh*t ourselves.  If I were to tell any of you on draft day that "after 23 starts I bet this kid is a mirror image, production wise, of Patrick Ramsey, the guy you all mock me for once liking as our #2 QB, bet on it" I would have been laughed on this an any Jets forum.  Because it WOULD HAVE BEEN an unbelievable thing to say.  And yet, here we are, lots of reasons, but here we are none the less.

Fourth, while I would still argue the Skins with Ramsey were a low talent, poorly coached team, I am not going to pretend the situations are equal.  Ramsey never got Mono, had a better line (well, two better linemen), and similar quality offensive weapons.  But Darnold's situation has been worse.  How much worse is up to you to decide.

Fifth:  Don't get angry at me for facts.  We can all be mad this comparison is as close as it is, or we can pretend it really isn't that close, but these ARE the stats.  No one made them up.  It is up to you to interpret them.

The Comparison of Production:

Ramsey:  Thru 23 Starts, 9 wins, 14 losses, 465 for 836 (55.6%) for 5,370 Yards (6.4 YPA, 11.5 YPC,  230.0 YPG), 33 TD's vs. 28 INT's (3.3 INT %), 71 Sack

Darnold: Thru 23 Starts, 9 wins, 14 losses, 455 for 751 (59.8%) for 5,289 Yards (6.9 YPA, 11.6 YPC, 233.5 YPG), 32 TD's vs. 26 INT's (3.4 INT %), 58 Sack

 

[Losmeister]

9 hours ago, Warfish said:

Ramsey:  Thru 23 Starts, 9 wins, 14 losses, 465 for 836 (55.6%) for 5,370 Yards (6.4 YPA, 11.5 YPC,  230.0 YPG), 33 TD's vs. 28 INT's (3.3 INT %), 71 Sack

Darnold: Thru 23 Starts, 9 wins, 14 losses, 455 for 751 (59.8%) for 5,289 Yards (6.9 YPA, 11.6 YPC, 233.5 YPG), 32 TD's vs. 26 INT's (3.4 INT %), 58 Sack

 crazily similar

[jetsfansince7]

And just wait until he gets the time to make all his Reads...
[/url]  

I was thinking about all the haters on this board that are sick of hearing that Sam can be great when he gets the time- gets an offensive line. I watched Drew Breeze yesterday albeit in a losing effort hit throw after throw from the comfort of a clean pocket. Our o line is not just bad, they are hurting us and Sams development. We recruited the guy for what he can do outside of the pocket as well as in it. We didn’t recruit him to scramble for his life on 75% of pass plays.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[nico002]

the fact that Darnold is being evaluated against perfection tells you how special he is 

he just threw for 270, 2 TDs, and led a game winning drive and people are complaining

in fact led led back to back 4th quarter drives to retake the lead!

he had FOUR third down drops that hit receivers in the hands 

But omg he threw a pick and missed Robby in the end endzone!

[FidelioJet]

the fact that Darnold is being evaluated against perfection tells you how special he is 
he just threw for 270, 2 TDs, and led a game winning drive and people are complaining
in fact led led back to back 4th quarter drives to retake the lead!
he had FOUR third down drops that hit receivers in the hands 
But omg he threw a pick and missed Robby in the end endzone!

Exactly.
our fan base expect perfection. they must not don’t actually watch other games.

The best QB’s throw INT’s...The best QB’s miss receivers on occasion...

Most QB’s don’t have consistently 4 drops a game, Most QB’s have offensive line support, Most QB’s have receivers that make plays for them and don’t require perfectly thrown balls to make a reception.

It’s like our fan base wants him to be bad just so they can say “I told you so”

[FidelioJet]

To put a bow on this, now that he has finished his 23rd game, the full "Darnold vs. Ramsey" production comparison is done:
A few points:  First, no, I am not saying Sam Darnold IS Patrick Ramsey.  I AM saying that their production in their first 23 games (the point where Ramsey was effectively finished in the NFL) is remarkably similar.  You can think of that what you will frankly, I find it interesting.
Second, no I am not saying Darnold and Ramsey are equal prospects, Darnold was and is a materially better prospect and talent.  Which may say something, if you think about it, that the two are so close production wise. 
Third, lets not bullsh*t ourselves.  If I were to tell any of you on draft day that "after 23 starts I bet this kid is a mirror image, production wise, of Patrick Ramsey, the guy you all mock me for once liking as our #2 QB, bet on it" I would have been laughed on this an any Jets forum.  Because it WOULD HAVE BEEN an unbelievable thing to say.  And yet, here we are, lots of reasons, but here we are none the less.
Fourth, while I would still argue the Skins with Ramsey were a low talent, poorly coached team, I am not going to pretend the situations are equal.  Ramsey never got Mono, had a better line (well, two better linemen), and similar quality offensive weapons.  But Darnold's situation has been worse.  How much worse is up to you to decide.
Fifth:  Don't get angry at me for facts.  We can all be mad this comparison is as close as it is, or we can pretend it really isn't that close, but these ARE the stats.  No one made them up.  It is up to you to interpret them.
The Comparison of Production:
Ramsey:  Thru 23 Starts, 9 wins, 14 losses, 465 for 836 (55.6%) for 5,370 Yards (6.4 YPA, 11.5 YPC,  230.0 YPG), 33 TD's vs. 28 INT's (3.3 INT %), 71 Sack
Darnold: Thru 23 Starts, 9 wins, 14 losses, 455 for 751 (59.8%) for 5,289 Yards (6.9 YPA, 11.6 YPC, 233.5 YPG), 32 TD's vs. 26 INT's (3.4 INT %), 58 Sack
 

What does Patrick Ramsey have to do with anyone or anything...let alone Sam Darnold?



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

24:25:31

[Losmeister]

10 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

What does ......have to do with anyone or anything...let alone Sam Darnold

 

Sam Exists in a Vacuum.

And I know that vacuums location.

 

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

 

What does Patrick Ramsey have to do with anyone or anything...let alone Sam Darnold?



Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

24:25:31

 

Darnold believers compare him to Manning, Rodgers and more all the time. I don’t recall hearing you ask them that question....

What it has do do with Darnold as a comparison of performances over equal time should be obvious.

But as I said, if you see nothing interesting here, No worries. 

[nico002]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Darnold believers compare him to Manning, Rodgers and more all the time. I don’t recall hearing you ask them that question....

What it has do do with Darnold as a comparison of performances over equal time should be obvious.

But as I said, if you see nothing interesting here, No worries. 

Troy aikman through 26 starts:

55% comp, 4328 yards (166 avg), 20 TDs 36 picks 

Am I doing it right? 

[Warfish]

10 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Troy aikman through 26 starts:

55% comp, 4328 yards (166 avg), 20 TDs 36 picks 

Am I doing it right? 

Yes, actually. If you believe Darnold is like Aikman this would be a place to start.

A question to ask is: what % of QB’s who start this poorly production wise turn it around to greatness?

[Butterfield]

19 minutes ago, nico002 said:

Troy aikman through 26 starts:

55% comp, 4328 yards (166 avg), 20 TDs 36 picks 

Am I doing it right? 

Interesting.  I don’t consider Aikman elite though.  His stats were always very mediocre at best.  It does suggest the jets could in fact win with Darnold with an elite supporting cast.  Hopefully they get one of those soon.  

[nico002]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Yes, actually. If you believe Darnold is like Aikman this would be a place to start.

A question to ask is: what % of QB’s who start this poorly production wise turn it around to greatness?

 

Where to begin responding to this nonsense...

Patrick Ramsey was on a steady statistical decline after his first year... Sam Darnold is improving in every category

patrick Ramsey was consistently mediocre his entire career, Darnold has 4 bad games that skew his stats, he has 10+ games of elite performances 

Patrick Ramsey was in year 3 and 25 years old by the time he made his 23rd start 

 

[Saul Goodman]

On 11/28/2019 at 8:39 PM, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/11/28/how-much-is-dak-prescott-worth-cover-your-eyes-jerry-jones/

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-dak-prescott-the-mvp/

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/dak-prescott-belongs-in-nfl-mvp-race-a-deep-dive-into-the-advanced-stats-prove-it/

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/11/19/20972465/dak-prescott-dallas-cowboys-mvp-candidate

https://cowboyswire.usatoday.com/2019/11/05/dallas-cowboys-dak-prescott-mvp-race-power-rankings-epa-kirk-cousins/

Just stop.

I know this a-hole has been banned...but how’s your MVP and DVOA darling looking??

Completely and utterly sh*t the bed with a loaded roster. 

[Morrissey]

On 12/9/2019 at 8:13 AM, nico002 said:

Troy aikman through 26 starts:

55% comp, 4328 yards (166 avg), 20 TDs 36 picks 

Am I doing it right? 

Troy Aikman played a different sport. Comparing NFL stats in different eras in a waste of time.

[Morrissey]

Darnold is still a huge question mark. He’s certainly not special now. 

[HessStation]

On 12/7/2019 at 1:57 PM, Losmeister said:

2 years in .....still a PROSPECT....   no hate just a simple fact. for me, that means AS OF NOW... wasnt worth the capital.

it may still turn out...    we'll see

Pretty much. You can see It turning either way still. Wish I liked Gase more but we’ll see.

[HessStation]

15 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

I know this a-hole has been banned...but how’s your MVP and DVOA darling looking??

Completely and utterly sh*t the bed with a loaded roster. 

Dak sucks

[Losmeister]

On 12/9/2019 at 5:23 AM, Warfish said:

Yes, actually. If you believe Darnold is like Aikman this would be a place to start.

A question to ask is: what % of QB’s who start this poorly production wise turn it around to greatness?

=

betting on a long shot...    and whose team will have the HOF leading NFL leading rusher...   and a HOF Wr

[JustInFudge]

14 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Dak sucks

Talk about missing plays.  Dude misses easy throws in a clean pocket all game long.  

[jbone]

On 12/9/2019 at 8:13 AM, nico002 said:

Troy aikman through 26 starts:

55% comp, 4328 yards (166 avg), 20 TDs 36 picks 

Am I doing it right? 

Reminds me of when people said Sanchez was basically Aikman. The cycle is complete.