Sam Darnold is a “special” QB

[JustInFudge]

15 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Too much being made of fancy throws. There are no style points. The position requires you to consistently throw it to the guy. He's had his ups and downs. The last 3 games have been promising and good, but he still has a lot of work to do. He's still 27th overall in DVOA with the last 3 good starts. The Baltimore and Pittsburgh games are going to be benchmark type of matchups.

 

Surprised hearing this from you because you've been probably the most critical of his arm on this board.  I would have thought you were looking for those few fancy/style throws that show you he has the arm and then some.

This league and fans drool over the Mahomes no look pass, the Rodgers on the run tight window throws, the Brady touch passes, the fancy Jackson plays and so on...on the req. I dont see any harm in Jets fans getting excited over a few wow moments from a 22 year old kid who just 5 weeks ago many of us were very nervous was just another in the long line of busts.  Especially since they were part of a game where everything else he did was on point.  It's not like we're picking out the only 2 good plays of the game clinging to hope of a sign.  He's been ballin and these were just 2 examples of how in the zone he was on Sunday.

It's a good thing. 

[jetstream23]

10 hours ago, Big_Slick said:

Jerry Jones was reportedly upset after the game and made several statements that he expected more from the Cowboys. I thought he was referring to Dak but the press spins this as their HC should be fired. The problem is that Dak is a below average QB surrounded by top tier talent. If you put Sam on that team they'd be a legit SB contender.

I hope Jerry does give Dak a 40M contract as that would handicap the Boys going forward.

It's similar to what happens around here on the message board.  The offense has three primary components - Coach/OC, QB, everyone else.  When the Jets were stuck in the mud, using QBs like Luke Falk being protected by an injured Osemele, a bad Kalil, a bad Edoga, etc. and throwing to backup WRs we had people blaming the roster, Sam's sickness and the head coach.  The Jets have looked good (still with a bad roster) but with Gase and Darnold now showing what they can do together.

Dallas is still trying to reconcile whether they have a bad HC, a bad QB or both.  The Jets hopefully KNOW they have a good QB, think the HC may not be as bad as originally feared, but know the supporting cast on offense (almost everyone) is well below average.

[JustInFudge]

10 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

Agreed, except I’d add Buffalo to that list. He’s played very well the last three weeks, and there’s no reason he shouldn’t the next two also.

The only thing I find amusing about this victory lap the “see no evil fan boys” are taking now is that he’s doing it against the same bad teams they belittled Josh Allen for beating earlier.

All of us are happy to see Sam play well, however when he does the downside is we’re forced to listen to these same guys go way overboard proclaiming the same over the top comparisons and projections they do whenever he plays a good game.

This post reminds me of when you're battling a "friend" for a job or a promotion or maybe even something as simple as you both have tickets in for a prize you really want at a raffle and you lose and you're pissed off as hell but you play it cool and are all like, I'm not upset, I'm just really happy for you!  But deep down inside, you really dont mean it at all.  You're pissed you lost. 

This is you and Sam Darnold and the day that you're going to want to love him, Sam and all of us will reject your feeble attempts at love. 

 

[jetstream23]

13 hours ago, funaz said:

Let's compare daks and Darnolds game vs the Patriots to see how they stack up.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

Who? The guy who played with Amari Cooper, Ezekiel Elliott and an All Pro offensive line against a guy playing with a group of players who will either be retired, in the CFL or out of football in the next 2 years?

 

[JustInFudge]

10 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

You are why the Jets will never be good.

Whofans?  Is that you!?!?!   Missed you buddy! 

[Big_Slick]

9 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Maybe you don't understand. Prescott has the highest DYAR in the league and is an MVP candidate for a first-place team. The suggestion that they'd be better off with Darnold is contemptibly moronic.

You've watched both Sam and Dak play and you'd prefer Dak?

MVP's don't put up stats like these in a HUGE game (vs the cheats*). You must be a Cowgirls fan.

 

[JustInFudge]

10 hours ago, The Crusher said:

To be fair back then he was throwing the ball to his opponents about as much as his team. I want to see him do it against a top ten defense. So far so good. 

This.  It was fair to question him after the Pats and Jags debacle.  His team failed him vs. the Phins but I legit thought after the safety to essentially end the game, that he was broken.  The lack of effort to go get the ball, the immediate screaming at this OL, I was in the he's a bust camp after being one of his biggest supporters.  

But he's done exactly what he should and could do since then...and it's all you can ask for.  I'd like to see him vs. a top D now too that the OL isnt a dumpster fire mess but he cant control that...all he can do is play to the best of his ability vs. the team on the field and I think he's answered the call and then some over the past 3 weeks.  Everyone wants to call this a cake walk because of the teams they're playing but those same people consistently say the Jets are the least talented team in Football.  So how is any game easy for the Jets and Sam?  Shouldnt the narrative be that Sam is balling out of control despite playing on one of the worst teams in Football?  vs. Sam is balling because the other team is bad?

Hard to follow the haters these days, honestly.   All I know is, he's balling and it's fun to watch. 

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, The Crusher said:

To be fair back then he was throwing the ball to his opponents about as much as his team. I want to see him do it against a top ten defense. So far so good. 

True, to be fair though there were some of us tried to look past the interceptions and saw the talent while struggling to complete passes while on his back those two miserable games.  To honestly look back at the schedule, he only played terrible in two games.  Granted one was a national tv game, which adds to it, amps up the fear by a huge margin.  

Regardless, hes turned things around, whether its because hes finally gotten over the effects of mono or because hes more comfortable with Gases offense.  Or that Gase is more comfortable with his new QB and has a better feel what works for Sam, with a large dose of the OLs improved play.  We can now breath and enjoy the games more

[Jet Nut]

13 hours ago, Miss Lonelyhearts said:

Maybe you don't understand. Prescott has the highest DYAR in the league and is an MVP candidate for a first-place team. The suggestion that they'd be better off with Darnold is contemptibly moronic.

Dak is a MVP candidate today or at any point of this season nowhere other than in your mind.

I would never trade Sam straight up for Dak.  I get the idea you would 

[JustInFudge]

10 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

You've watched both Sam and Dak play and you'd prefer Dak?

MVP's don't put up stats like these in a HUGE game (vs the cheats*). You must be a Cowgirls fan.

 

Again, my point in hand.  You're quoting someone who constantly says the Jets are the least talented team in Football.  The comparison being made is vs. a player who in on his 4th season on an offense completely loaded with weapons.  Top 5 OL, Top 5 RB, Top 10 WR, emerging talent in Michael Gallup (he'd be the best WR on the Jets) and a handful of crafty veterans in Randall Cobb/Tavon Austin/Jason Witten, etc. But the expectation is Sam should be outperforming Dak? 

Weird logic on this board, man.

 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

24 minutes ago, JiF said:

This post reminds me of when you're battling a "friend" for a job or a promotion or maybe even something as simple as you both have tickets in for a prize you really want at a raffle and you lose and you're pissed off as hell but you play it cool and are all like, I'm not upset, I'm just really happy for you!  But deep down inside, you really dont mean it at all.  You're pissed you lost. 

This is you and Sam Darnold and the day that you're going to want to love him, Sam and all of us will reject your feeble attempts at love. 

 

Like virtually ANY stock market tout on TV who talks out of both sides of his mouth, that particular post.

Virtually EVERY attribute that Sam Darnold has has “been on display” the last few weeks and those attributes will most likely translate into being one of the Top QBs in the NFL.  From the power of his arm to making better decisions is evidence front and center to shut his detractors up...it’s not “fanboy” stuff.  It’s pure evidence that Darnold CAN make plays that only a couple people on the universe also can...Mahomes and Rodgers.  To not recognize that and not be ecstatic that Sam Darnold at 22 should be the NY Jet QB and be one of the best in the game...for a Long time....is totally disingenuous.

The attributes currently on display are EXACTLY the reason why JJ Watt told Darnold after the Houston game end of last year...”you’re going to be a GREAT PRO”....he sees them all, very up close and personal...but as fans who see the same things, we’re wrong to acknowledge it?

 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Dak is a MVP candidate today or at any point of this season nowhere other than in your mind.

I would never trade Sam straight up for Dak.  

If Prescott played with exactly the same personnel that Darnold has carried like a ball and chain over his short career, there would most likely be talk of needing to draft another QB.

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

If Prescott played with exactly the same personnel that Darnold has carried like a ball and chain over his short career, there would most likely be talk of needing to draft another QB.

They've already debated whether Dak is worth signing to a second contract and the money that would take 

[JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

They've already debated whether Dak is worth signing to a second contract and the money that would take 

Good...guy is delusional turning down $30Mill.

But the world is not a fair place.  He will be paid huge dollars regardless...by someone...and he will NEVER win ANYTHING of consequence...enjoy, whoever pays him.

[whodeawhodat]

11 hours ago, The Crusher said:

To be fair back then he was throwing the ball to his opponents about as much as his team. I want to see him do it against a top ten defense. So far so good. 

I would like to see that too, next year.  This year, our Oline will be exposed, don't believe raiderholic about his all star dline.

[The Crusher]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

This.  It was fair to question him after the Pats and Jags debacle.  His team failed him vs. the Phins but I legit thought after the safety to essentially end the game, that he was broken.  The lack of effort to go get the ball, the immediate screaming at this OL, I was in the he's a bust camp after being one of his biggest supporters.  

But he's done exactly what he should and could do since then...and it's all you can ask for.  I'd like to see him vs. a top D now too that the OL isnt a dumpster fire mess but he cant control that...all he can do is play to the best of his ability vs. the team on the field and I think he's answered the call and then some over the past 3 weeks.  Everyone wants to call this a cake walk because of the teams they're playing but those same people consistently say the Jets are the least talented team in Football.  So how is any game easy for the Jets and Sam?  Shouldnt the narrative be that Sam is balling out of control despite playing on one of the worst teams in Football?  vs. Sam is balling because the other team is bad?

Hard to follow the haters these days, honestly.   All I know is, he's balling and it's fun to watch. 

Our hearts beat as one. That was the same play, the safety that made me think that the Jets broke the kid. But, he has done what he has done all along and that’s show up again after looking terrible., Honestly I was getting suck of the excuses and wanted to try to look at him objectively. Hard for me, because as you know he was the QB I wanted from the get go. 

[Matt39]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Dak is a MVP candidate today or at any point of this season nowhere other than in your mind.

I would never trade Sam straight up for Dak.  

Dak probably rounds out the top 5 for MVP. Jackson, Wilson, Mccafrey, Thomas, Dak. He’s had a phenomenal year and is held back by Garrett being the worst coach in football. 

[Matt39]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Surprised hearing this from you because you've been probably the most critical of his arm on this board.  I would have thought you were looking for those few fancy/style throws that show you he has the arm and then some.

This league and fans drool over the Mahomes no look pass, the Rodgers on the run tight window throws, the Brady touch passes, the fancy Jackson plays and so on...on the req. I dont see any harm in Jets fans getting excited over a few wow moments from a 22 year old kid who just 5 weeks ago many of us were very nervous was just another in the long line of busts.  Especially since they were part of a game where everything else he did was on point.  It's not like we're picking out the only 2 good plays of the game clinging to hope of a sign.  He's been ballin and these were just 2 examples of how in the zone he was on Sunday.

It's a good thing. 

Wow moments are good. Consistently winning from the pocket and not throwing interceptions is better. Forgive me for not grading on the Jets fan TM  quarterback curve. I purposely ignored Sanchez and Gene’s obvious flaws out of hope. 

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Wow moments are good. Consistently winning from the pocket and not throwing interceptions is better. 

Agreed and it's even better when he's doing all the above. 

 

[Jetsfan4life90]

1 hour ago, Big_Slick said:

You've watched both Sam and Dak play and you'd prefer Dak?

MVP's don't put up stats like these in a HUGE game (vs the cheats*). You must be a Cowgirls fan.

 

Look at Darnold's game against the Cheats this season, lol. BB has a history of making even good QB's look really silly.

I'm not a Dak fanboy by any means, but to call him a below average QB is absurd. Plenty of great QB's have had terrible games like that. 

Looking at Dak's stats this year, we'd be busting a nut if Darnold had those same stats in his 2nd season starting. 

[Warfish]

12 hours ago, Legend Killa7 said:

LOVE the people on here always complaining about Darnold.....yeah because we have had such a long line of elite QBs. HUGE shoes for Sammy to fill: immortals like Geno, Hack, Sanchize, the Beard, etc etc etc.

Come on people! Not like he’s replacing Montana or Brady here!

I don't understand this kind of thinking.

If (for example) we had really bad QB's most of our history, and we have, getting (for example) a slightly below-average QB does not convert that QB into an elite QB.  I get that after eating sh*t for years, even dog food might taste good, but that's a VERY subjective evaluation limited to those who ate the sh*t all those years.

Darnold has shown great flashes and some periods of great play so far.  He is 100% worth investing around based on his play to-date.  He is also not "elite" or "special" or any of the other hyperbole some here at JN are using to describe him.  Not yet.  I don;t think it's a sin to compare him against the average NFL QB (he's below average still to-date), with an eye towards his potential future.  He doesn't need to be slathered with (as yet) unearned praise, or labeled with accolades he simply hasn't yet earned (elite accuracy, for example), to justify our faith and confidence in his potential and future.

We should all be excited.  Let me Repeat:  WE SHOULD ALL BE EXCITED!  We should all be optimistic.

My only objection is the excessive hyperbole.  Sam Darnold is not a top 5 QB today.  He can be in the future.  And we hope he will be.  

[Legend Killa7]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I don't understand this kind of thinking.

If (for example) we had really bad QB's most of our history, and we have, getting (for example) a slightly below-average QB does not convert that QB into an elite QB.  I get that after eating sh*t for years, even dog food might taste good, but that's a VERY subjective evaluation limited to those who ate the sh*t all those years.

Darnold has shown great flashes and some periods of great play so far.  He is 100% worth investing around based on his play to-date.  He is also not "elite" or "special" or any of the other hyperbole some here at JN are using to describe him.  Not yet.  I don;t think it's a sin to compare him against the average NFL QB (he's below average still to-date), with an eye towards his potential future.  He doesn't need to be slathered with (as yet) unearned praise, or labeled with accolades he simply hasn't yet earned (elite accuracy, for example), to justify our faith and confidence in his potential and future.

We should all be excited.  Let me Repeat:  WE SHOULD ALL BE EXCITED!  We should all be optimistic.

My only objection is the excessive hyperbole.  Sam Darnold is not a top 5 QB today.  He can be in the future.  And we hope he will be.  

NOBODY is saying top 5 QB.  Not that I have seen anyway.  But the CONSTANT beat downs...week...after week...after week.....it's nauseating!  I mean the kid has a great game, and all you hear on here is: "yeah well it's the giants".  He has 4 TD passes and it's: "yeah, BUT it was the redskins, AND he had a terrible INT".  Then  you figure he has a great game against a (then ) playoff team and there are still complaints!

all this with a God-awful line (80% of which are not even the starters!), no Quincy, no herndon, etc.  again, I have never said top 5 QB, but it's almost like people on here are rooting AGAINST him!

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Legend Killa7 said:

NOBODY is saying top 5 QB.  Not that I have seen anyway.  But the CONSTANT beat downs...week...after week...after week.....it's nauseating!  I mean the kid has a great game, and all you hear on here is: "yeah well it's the giants".  He has 4 TD passes and it's: "yeah, BUT it was the redskins, AND he had a terrible INT".  Then  you figure he has a great game against a (then ) playoff team and there are still complaints!

You mean facts?  You're offended because people reference the facts? Really?

I've said it a million times, more than one thing can be true at the same time:  

In this case, the Jets have stabilized and Sam is playing better and probably feels better now post-Mono.  It's ALSO true than two of his three great games were against truly horrible teams, teams worse than us.  One, the Raiders, was a better team, but a team not great in Defense and who is just as likely to finish the year with 8 or less wins.  Pointing out one does not nullify the other, any more than pointing out that Sam's faced challenges on his O-line doesn't nullify his poorer performances this year either.  All must be considered in the whole.

1 minute ago, Legend Killa7 said:

..........but it's almost like people on here are rooting AGAINST him!

No mate.  No one is rooting against him here, certainly not Jets Fans.  When objectivity and fact-based analysis is considered "rooting against" our guy, there is a serious problem.

[rangerous]

20 hours ago, jetscrazey said:

With any other Jets QB the past 10 years, that's a sack and probably a safety.

With Sam, it's a completion, ball out past the 20 yard line.

Small things make a big difference.

that was a huge play no matter what team made it.

[rangerous]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

You mean facts?  You're offended because people reference the facts? Really?

I've said it a million times, more than one thing can be true at the same time:  

In this case, the Jets have stabilized and Sam is playing better and probably feels better now post-Mono.  It's ALSO true than two of his three great games were against truly horrible teams, teams worse than us.  One, the Raiders, was a better team, but a team not great in Defense and who is just as likely to finish the year with 8 or less wins.  Pointing out one does not nullify the other, any more than pointing out that Sam's faced challenges on his O-line doesn't nullify his poorer performances this year either.  All must be considered in the whole.

No mate.  No one is rooting against him here, certainly not Jets Fans.  When objectivity and fact-based analysis is considered "rooting against" our guy, there is a serious problem.

true enough.  but even the good teams need to beat the bad teams to get to the playoffs.  so i wouldn't necessarily beating a bad team as some kind of put down to darnolds ability.  i seriously doubt they win the giants or redskins game with the like of falk or semian at qb.

[Big_Slick]

19 minutes ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Look at Darnold's game against the Cheats this season, lol. BB has a history of making even good QB's look really silly.

I'm not a Dak fanboy by any means, but to call him a below average QB is absurd. Plenty of great QB's have had terrible games like that. 

Looking at Dak's stats this year, we'd be busting a nut if Darnold had those same stats in his 2nd season starting. 

Sam was still recovering from mono during that cheats* game and the Jets OL played one of their worst games this season and that says a lot.

Dak, with the talent surrounding him should have beat the cheats* like a red headed step child. The cheats* were ripe for slaughter and Dak choked that game away. I won't post Dak's stats for that game again but they were abysmal.

Remember that Dak lost to Sam even with the ref's trying their hardest to steal the game from the Jets. Dak is a Trent Dillfer type and even then the Boys will be one and done in the playoffs.

[Apache 51]

[Jetmech]

Sam was still recovering from mono during that cheats* game and the Jets OL played one of their worst games this season and that says a lot.

Dak, with the talent surrounding him should have beat the cheats* like a red headed step child. The cheats* were ripe for slaughter and Dak choked that game away. I won't post Dak's stats for that game again but they were abysmal.

Remember that Dak lost to Sam even with the ref's trying their hardest to steal the game from the Jets. Dak is a Trent Dillfer type and even then the Boys will be one and done in the playoffs.

 

I’m a Dak fan but Jerry Jones would swap QB’s if he could...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Legend Killa7]

9 minutes ago, rangerous said:

true enough.  but even the good teams need to beat the bad teams to get to the playoffs.  so i wouldn't necessarily beating a bad team as some kind of put down to darnolds ability.  i seriously doubt they win the giants or redskins game with the like of falk or semian at qb.

exactly!  as bad as those teams are, people forget that the Jets were UNDERDOGS in both games!!!  Let's not act like Sam is QB of the greatest show on turf here!  

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Dak probably rounds out the top 5 for MVP. Jackson, Wilson, Mccafrey, Thomas, Dak. He’s had a phenomenal year and is held back by Garrett being the worst coach in football. 

There has been nothing phenomenal about Daks play this season.  They’re a mediocre team right now that has benefitted by an easy schedule.  They play a good team, they lose.  They’ve lost to every team with a winning record other than the Lions a week ago, without Stanford.  And it still wasn’t easy 

Wish you were this generous talking Jets and especially Darnold.  Given the over the top criticism of his play etc

[Legend Killa7]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

There has been nothing phenomenal about Daks play this season.  They’re a mediocre team right now that has benefitted by an easy schedule.  They play a good team, they lose 

I agree, and think of it this way:  the Jets would only be 2 games out of a division championship if they were in the NFC East!  that says something!!

[freestater]

3 hours ago, JiF said:

Surprised hearing this from you because you've been probably the most critical of his arm on this board.  I would have thought you were looking for those few fancy/style throws that show you he has the arm and then some.

This league and fans drool over the Mahomes no look pass, the Rodgers on the run tight window throws, the Brady touch passes, the fancy Jackson plays and so on...on the req. I dont see any harm in Jets fans getting excited over a few wow moments from a 22 year old kid who just 5 weeks ago many of us were very nervous was just another in the long line of busts.  Especially since they were part of a game where everything else he did was on point.  It's not like we're picking out the only 2 good plays of the game clinging to hope of a sign.  He's been ballin and these were just 2 examples of how in the zone he was on Sunday.

It's a good thing. 

I've never understood some fans' propensity to need to "reel in" the enthusiasm or optimism of other fans. Were talking about a game, business and spectacle based on fans' emotional response to their teams. The NFL is invested heavily into making fans dedicated and hopeful. Its akin to logging into Facebook to complain about the pics of meals. 

[Apache 51]

31 minutes ago, Big_Slick said:

Sam was still recovering from mono during that cheats* game and the Jets OL played one of their worst games this season and that says a lot.

Dak, with the talent surrounding him should have beat the cheats* like a red headed step child. The cheats* were ripe for slaughter and Dak choked that game away. I won't post Dak's stats for that game again but they were abysmal.

Remember that Dak lost to Sam even with the ref's trying their hardest to steal the game from the Jets. Dak is a Trent Dillfer type and even then the Boys will be one and done in the playoffs.

I'll take that one SB, where do I sign?

[Warfish]

7 minutes ago, freestater said:

I've never understood some fans' propensity to need to "reel in" the enthusiasm or optimism of other fans. Were talking about a game, business and spectacle based on fans' emotional response to their teams. The NFL is invested heavily into making fans dedicated and hopeful. Its akin to logging into Facebook to complain about the pics of meals. 

I can only speak for myself, but I do it because hyperbolic, counter-factual "enthusiasm" makes any discussion of the team and it's future borderline impossible.

How do you have a conversation when one side thinks the player in question is a top 5 elite franchise this or that that shouldn't be "questioned" or analyzed at all by fans........despite being in the bottom of almost every metric playing on a losing team? 

It's impossible.  Imagine trying to have a discussion with someone who thinks Anderson, for example, is one of the NFL's best 5 WR's.  They refuse to accept any counter opinion, they ignore performance and reply on "what we see", and denounce anyone who disagrees as "haters" who are "rooting against" Anderson.....

Now try and have a constructive discussion about the future of the WR position with that person and their "enthusiasm".

Enthusiasm and optimism are great.  Being insane isn't, not if you want to engage in discussions with others.  Unfortunately, we're often put in the box of "ruining others enthusiasm" simply for posting in discussions with facts, stats, etc.    

 

[Untouchable]

I haven’t seen anyone say that Darnold is presently a Top 5 QB. Not sure where that keeps coming from.

But he absolutely has the potential to be one.

Take the goofy analytics and throw them out the window. Just using your own two eyeballs you should be able to see that this kid can make throws that 95% of the QB’s in the NFL are simply incapable of making.

His ability to throw on the move, off-platform and from different arm angles with the velocity, accuracy and ball placement that he shows is the stuff you only see from a handful of upper tier QB’s like Rodgers and Mahomes. That isn’t blind optimism, it’s fact.

Obviously he needs to clean up some facets of his game and I’m certain he will. The kid is 22 years old and has only been playing the position for 5 years, not since he was knee high to a grasshopper like most of these guys. He was originally being recruited to USC as a linebacker.

If the Jets commit to putting a quality OL in front of him this offseason and give him a legit weapon at wideout, I fully expect him to take a massive jump in Year 3 and make games like we’ve witnessed the last 3 weeks the norm.