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Sam Darnold is a “special” QB


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Warfish is correct. Darnold is probably a bust. 
 

The only reason I’m not completely writing him off yet is his age (came into the league younger than most guys). The sooner we come to the conclusion that he’s a bust the less painful it will be. There will be other young QBs in the future we will hitch our wagons too. 

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That video made me release. 

And just wait until he gets the time to make all his Reads...  

You guys know this is a Jets site, right? It is okay to root for the Jets here lol.

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9 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Sam will leave the Jets and become an absolute star after this fanbase chases him out. 

I really can't believe people think he's a bust.

brass in pocket playing...

....football outsiders

Darnold loses 86 DYAR due to opponent adjustments. Somehow, in 48 passes, he did not throw one in the red zone. In the front zone -- the area between Cincinnati's 20- and 40-yard lines -- he went 2-of-7 for 13 yards with a sack. He struggled to complete the shortest passes in the game -- on passes to receivers at or behind the line of scrimmage, he went 8-of-15 for 39 yards.

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

You keep lecturing us how much Sam sucks yet the kid has maybe .2 seconds to throw facing the 0-9 bengals

Not lecturing. Doing a comparison of stat lines thru equal periods is not a lecture.

Don’t think Sam sucks. And have said so....repeatedly. 

He’s not the first or only QB to play behind a bad line.

So...yeah. I await my Usual buttfumbles.

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Not lecturing. Doing a comparison of stat lines thru equal periods is not a lecture.

Don’t think Sam sucks. And have said so....repeatedly. 

He’s not the first or only QB to play behind a bad line.

So...yeah. I await my Usual buttfumbles.

yo, fish, seriously, whose the nonspecial qb in that stat line comp?

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25 minutes ago, Sammybighead said:

Sam will leave the Jets and become an absolute star after this fanbase chases him out. 

I really can't believe people think he's a bust.

You understand that the fan base mostly loves him, and will play no role whatsoever in if he remains a Jet, right?

I mean you don’t actually think the fans will decide if he stays or can boo him out of town, do you?

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Just now, Losmeister said:

yo, fish, seriously, whose the nonspecial qb in that stat line comp?

Patrick Ramsey, which is why I found it so interesting. Darnold after next week is basically, stat line wise, Patrick Ramsey when the Jets signed him.

Again tho, Darnold is 1000x the prospect Ramsey was, but they both suffered under similar bad situations. 

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Patrick Ramsey, which is why I found it so interesting. Darnold after next week is basically, stat line wise, Patrick Ramsey when the Jets signed him.

Again tho, Darnold is 1000x the prospect Ramsey was, but they both suffered under similar bad situations. 

wouldnt have guessed in a million years. 

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8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Patrick Ramsey, which is why I found it so interesting. Darnold after next week is basically, stat line wise, Patrick Ramsey when the Jets signed him.

Again tho, Darnold is 1000x the prospect Ramsey was, but they both suffered under similar bad situations. 

You mean the Redskins teams that had Jon Jansen and Chris Samuels at Tackle bookends?

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6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Patrick Ramsey, which is why I found it so interesting. Darnold after next week is basically, stat line wise, Patrick Ramsey when the Jets signed him.

Again tho, Darnold is 1000x the prospect Ramsey was, but they both suffered under similar bad situations. 

Coming from the biggest Ramsey fanboy in all of JI, it’s interesting how many of your posts here over the past year or so have been to throw water on any optimism re: Darnold. 

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Obviously Darnold hasn’t proven an ability to be consistently good yet, but the best part about the “real” posters in this thread is how everything falls on Darnold when the jets lose, and when they win it’s because of strength of opponent and because the OL gave him an abundance of time. 

Meanwhile, the HC with a lopsided losing record over 4 seasons including the distinction of (1) having more blowout losses on his resume than wins and (2) being the first coach to ever lose to two 0-7+ teams in the same year  - gets a complete pass because he successfully orchestrated the shady (albeit, fully necessary) firing of the much hated Macc. He’s supposed to be the bright young innovative HC/QB whisperer, except that the offense was better under Jeremy Bates last year. 

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11 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Obviously Darnold hasn’t proven an ability to be consistently good yet,

this is the only point that is being made by the pissing in yur koolaid folks, like me.

wtf is so special about a guy who is not consistently good?

for me it means he has improving to do to get to the middle of the pack compared to other nfl qbs.

i think/believe he can do that with aid of OL competence.

then he needs to raise his game another level to get to the top 3rd tier. 

and i think that top 3rd tier is what is/was expected given his draft slot and the hype.

(and their is another level where there was a hope his talent would jump out at you

and he would be so talented as to raise the level of a team which  is bad)

i hope he can do that... top 3rd    my vibe says somewhere about 50/50...   

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43 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Patrick Ramsey, which is why I found it so interesting. Darnold after next week is basically, stat line wise, Patrick Ramsey when the Jets signed him.

Again tho, Darnold is 1000x the prospect Ramsey was, but they both suffered under similar bad situations. 

Oh my God you are lost

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1 hour ago, Sammybighead said:

Sam will leave the Jets and become an absolute star after this fanbase chases him out. 

I really can't believe people think he's a bust.

Yeah it’s not like the jets score 30+ points with Sam throwing to JAG WRs and a hobbled Bell when Sam actually has some pass protection

 

 

You have people here comparing him to Mark Sanchez and Patrick Ramsey - what is this nonsense?

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58 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Coming from the biggest Ramsey fanboy in all of JI, it’s interesting how many of your posts here over the past year or so have been to throw water on any optimism re: Darnold. 

Yes, I was very much a fan of Patrick Ramsey and hoped he would amount to more.  

If a post by a random on the interwebs is able to "throw water on your optimism" about Darnold, I would say you don't have much in the way of optimism to start with.

Also, selective reading is rather clearly a thing here at JN amongst a certain sect of fans.  They quite clearly hear criticism in almost anything, but never seem to hear positive things.  Not new really.  Some fans simply reject anything out of hand, which is why we see posts about my posts, and not posts responding to Sam Darnold's statline being a mirror image of Ramsey's.  

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50 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

And prime Stephen Davis running the ball back when running backs mattered

That's like saying we have prime Bell.  Bell > Davis, btw.  

Lets clear up a few things.  The Davis Ramsey had in 2002 was not "prime", it was in decline and misused by Spurrior (sound familiar?  Bell might say so).  He was moved the next year to Carolina where he had a amazing comeback year his first year there, then he never produced again.  

Samuels and Janson were good linemen, but the three interior linemen where horrible.  Darnold also didn't have to deal with the rotating QB carousel of Steve "QB is just another position, I can change them out whenever" Spurrior.  Sam just had Mono.

Also, lets not pretend you guys were watching Redskins games in 2002.  We all know you weren't.  You know names you've heard, you have no idea how good or not they were in those years.

Again, the point here is not one of direct comparison of circumstances.  Is Gase better than Spurrior?  Is Anderson better than end of career Gardner?  Is Griffith/Herndon better than Walter Rasby or Zeron Flemister?  Our O-line is worse, but both (despite names you think you've heard of) were pretty bad.  Pretty crap teams all around frankly.  

The point is that a guy we believe is great has, so far, produced almost exactly the same as a guy we all call (myself included) a bust.  We ALL think Sam will improve, but if I told you on draft day that by the end of Sam's second season his statline would be the same as Patrick f'ign Ramsey, yall would have laughed me out of the forum.  yet, here we are.

As covered in slats thread, a QB is in fact limited by their circumstances.  We, as a team, must improve and quickly if we're to get anything out of Sam's cheap rookie deal.  We must put Sam in a position to succeed, and Sam needs to do better frankly, and be more consistent.  It's going to be perhaps the most vital offseason in decades in NY this coming year, because we want Sam to succeeded, not be the next castoff failed first rounder.

 

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On 12/1/2019 at 6:45 PM, Warfish said:

I know, numbers and facts are hard for people who don't want to live in the real world.

I find it strange that you jumped on this one after trying to distance yourself from Ramsey.  I don't see how a "numbers and facts" guy sees a half a yard per attempt, 5% higher completion percentage and at least 30 more yards per game.  They are in the same stratosphere, but it isn't like somebody would look at these and think- same guy!  The things that are the same are mostly volume related. 

IMO Darnold's numbers are clearly better.  There are other factors that work for/against each - Spurrier's quicker hook, Bowles being a defensive coach.  Both teams sucking so they are facing a ton of prevent and playing from behind so they had to throw, etc, etc.  Darnold also has more than double the rushing yards and half the fumbles, but it is a different world from 2004, so who cares?

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On 12/3/2019 at 8:16 AM, greenwichjetfan said:

Obviously Darnold hasn’t proven an ability to be consistently good yet, but the best part about the “real” posters in this thread is how everything falls on Darnold when the jets lose, and when they win it’s because of strength of opponent and because the OL gave him an abundance of time. 

This is really funny coming from the guy who jumped in the Mayfield thread every time he lost a game, and was just blaming Prescott for the Cowboys losing streak.

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6 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

They’ve already got Rosen. 😜

 I think you will appreciate this. Was listening to Brian Billick's weekly show up here yesterday on WFAN. One good line from him first before his point. He was talking about how risky it is taking a QB in the 1st rd and having him bust. He said that's the stuff that cost jobs, and he goes on to say "that's why a guy who won a Super Bowl is doing a weekly Thursday spot on a NYC radio station."

   They asked him about Daniel Jones and he said he feels he will be a very good QB in the league. Said the game is never too big for him. They asked him about Sam and he was iffy. Said he's been up/down but that's normal for young guys. But the point I found interesting was he said that Bill Walsh always said that you know whether a QB is "the guy" after about 25 games or so, and he said Sam is pretty close to that number. I like Sam, think he's good, but reading between the lines of what Billick said makes me pause a bit.

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On 12/3/2019 at 9:57 AM, #27TheDominator said:

I find it strange that you jumped on this one after trying to distance yourself from Ramsey.

I've never, ever, tried to distance myself from my previous opinions on Ramsey.

I was wrong, period.  My expectations were not met.  He got opportunity, he failed to do anything with it, with us and afterwards.  

Was he so beat up after endless sacks he just couldn't recover?  Perhaps.  Was he just not good enough?  Certainly. 

What every jets Fan needs to hope is that Sam Darnold can start PRODUCING more than Patrick Ramsey-level numbers in 2020.  Because no amount of "he's so special" spin will make that kind of weak production acceptable in year 3.

Excuses only last so long......for Jets fans, it usually last right up till the guy is cut, at which point all the know nothings will pretend they never loved the QB in question, and never posted in threads like this, lol!    

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7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

  Because no amount of "he's so special" spin will make that kind of weak production acceptable in year 3.

Excuses only last so long......for Jets fans, it usually last right up till the guy is cut, at which point all the know nothings will pretend they never loved the QB in question, and never posted in threads like this, lol!    

 i didnt realize the Jets and Jets fans were cool giving him 2 years worth of on the job training with zero expectation cos he's young....  nothing special about THAT whatsoever...  except the exceptionally high amount of draft capital

 

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On 12/3/2019 at 7:52 AM, Warfish said:

You understand that the fan base mostly loves him, and will play no role whatsoever in if he remains a Jet, right?

I mean you don’t actually think the fans will decide if he stays or can boo him out of town, do you?

Yes, I get that. Thank you

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in encouraging news... 

Sam's excpected completion %age differential in NFL next gen stats...

is middle of the pack. 

Am not being antagonistic...   that's decent....

HAve stated multiple times that I think Sam's floor with a decent OL is to be in the mid to upper part of the 2nd tier of NFL 32 QBs (11-16) ....       but am worried that he won;t be a guy who is perennial top 10.

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3 hours ago, section314 said:

 I think you will appreciate this. Was listening to Brian Billick's weekly show up here yesterday on WFAN. One good line from him first before his point. He was talking about how risky it is taking a QB in the 1st rd and having him bust. He said that's the stuff that cost jobs, and he goes on to say "that's why a guy who won a Super Bowl is doing a weekly Thursday spot on a NYC radio station."

   They asked him about Daniel Jones and he said he feels he will be a very good QB in the league. Said the game is never too big for him. They asked him about Sam and he was iffy. Said he's been up/down but that's normal for young guys. But the point I found interesting was he said that Bill Walsh always said that you know whether a QB is "the guy" after about 25 games or so, and he said Sam is pretty close to that number. I like Sam, think he's good, but reading between the lines of what Billick said makes me pause a bit.

I think both of us are smart enough to listen to guys like Billick, or whoever, and process it differently then someone who’s been following sports for fifteen years or so.. We’ve been watching sports for longer then a lot of the guys here have been alive (that sounds horrible, lol). I’d take your favorable opinion of a player like Sam a lot more seriously then someone let’s say in their mid twenties or so. I respect the perspective you bring.

We’ve both seen a bunch of “can’t miss” guys not amount to much. If you’re like me, and I think you are, we trust our eyes and our gut when it comes to our opinion of who will turn into what. We have a little bit of knowledge about metrics, but not a lot.

 I think we are pretty good at knowing what we’re seeing. We’ve been correct a lot more then wrong because through the years, and we’ve learned to ignore most of the hyperbole.

Not being impressed by what we’re seeing doesn’t mean we’re rooting for failure, all it means is we’re not impressed by what we’re seeing, lol.

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Losmeister said:

 i didnt realize the Jets and Jets fans were cool giving him 2 years worth of on the job training with zero expectation cos he's young....  nothing special about THAT whatsoever...  except the exceptionally high amount of draft capital

 

You hit a nail on the head here. 

The one thing I’ve been amazed by Is how many smart people here have such unwavering faith they in him. They see no wrong, or very, very little.

I've struggled for a while for comparable situations with NY athletes, and I can’t come up with one. The closest I can think of are David Wright for Mets fans, and Derek Jeter with Yankee fans. However, even those two never got the rope Darnold does until they had established themselves however.

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4 hours ago, section314 said:

 I think you will appreciate this. Was listening to Brian Billick's weekly show up here yesterday on WFAN. One good line from him first before his point. He was talking about how risky it is taking a QB in the 1st rd and having him bust. He said that's the stuff that cost jobs, and he goes on to say "that's why a guy who won a Super Bowl is doing a weekly Thursday spot on a NYC radio station."

   They asked him about Daniel Jones and he said he feels he will be a very good QB in the league. Said the game is never too big for him. They asked him about Sam and he was iffy. Said he's been up/down but that's normal for young guys. But the point I found interesting was he said that Bill Walsh always said that you know whether a QB is "the guy" after about 25 games or so, and he said Sam is pretty close to that number. I like Sam, think he's good, but reading between the lines of what Billick said makes me pause a bit.

What about if you play your first 25 games WITHOUT an OLine and WITHOUT a running game (have to take play action totally out of the playbook) and to top it off Receivers who RARELY get separation.....what does he think about a QB who has to play under those conditions?

And even then you put up 30+ points half the time.

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16 minutes ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

What about if you play your first 25 games WITHOUT an OLine and WITHOUT a running game (have to take play action totally out of the playbook) and to top it off Receivers who RARELY get separation.....what does he think about a QB who has to play under those conditions?

And even then you put up 30+ points half the time.

Oh jeez.... 30+ ppg. Half the time? So that’s the new one?

 No. 

I refuse to do this, lol.. I can’t, I won’t, not again. 😩

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4 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Oh jeez.... 30 points? Half the time?

 No. I refuse.

I can’t, I won’t, not again. 😩

Hey, how many TD passes would Mark Sanchez have playing for this "team" over 2 years? 2 TD passes?  That's not an over exxageration.  Facing the kind of heat Darnold has to deal with EVERY time he drops back, along with NO running game (Sanchez had the best and still couldn't put up points) it would be rare to see the Jets over the 50 yard line.

How many times would a Mark Sanchez led Offense put up more than 10 points in an entire game over these 2 years?  Maybe never.

Keep things in perspective.

Does the Jets 22 year QB have some leaks in his game at this point? Sure...but you really should reserve trying to totally judge Darnold until he has some professional players around him.  Which actually may never come...until he signs with another team.

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Just now, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Hey, how many TD passes would Mark Sanchez have playing for this "team" over 2 years? 2 TD passes?  That's not an over exxageration.  Facing the kind of heat Darnold has to deal with EVERY time he drops back, along with NO running game (Sanchez had the best and still couldn't put up points) it would be rare to see the Jets over the 50 yard line.

How many times would a Mark Sanchez led Offense put up more than 10 points in an entire game over these 2 years?  Maybe never.

Keep things in perspective.

Does the Jets 22 year QB have some leaks in his game at this point? Sure...but you really should reserve trying to totally judge Darnold until he has some professional players around him.  Which actually may never come...until he signs with another team.

😏

 

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