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Sam Darnold is a “special” QB

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45 minutes ago, Larz said:

The throw to Robby where he had room to run but put it over a guy was sick. Moving to his left, crazy footwork lol and spins it in there with amazing zip touch and accuracy 

I think he’s over the mono fellas!!!

That was his throw of the year. Similar to that third down play against Houston last year where he rolled to his left and hit Anderson 15-20 yards down the field on the sideline. He had a one foot window to fit the ball in and did it perfectly. 

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13 minutes ago, PS17 said:

That was his throw of the year. Similar to that third down play against Houston last year where he rolled to his left and hit Anderson 15-20 yards down the field on the sideline. He had a one foot window to fit the ball in and did it perfectly. 

Too much being made of fancy throws. There are no style points. The position requires you to consistently throw it to the guy. He's had his ups and downs. The last 3 games have been promising and good, but he still has a lot of work to do. He's still 27th overall in DVOA with the last 3 good starts. The Baltimore and Pittsburgh games are going to be benchmark type of matchups.

 

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1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

Too much being made of fancy throws. There are no style points. The position requires you to consistently throw it to the guy. He's had his ups and downs. The last 3 games of been promising and good, but he still has a lot of work to do. 

 

Disagree. We all know he has to cut down on bonehead turnovers and be more consistent. Nothing wrong with pointing out arm talent that 95% of NFL QBs could only dream of. 

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2 minutes ago, PS17 said:

Disagree. We all know he has to cut down on bonehead turnovers and be more consistent. Nothing wrong with pointing out arm talent that 95% of NFL QBs could only dream of. 

Darnold excels in making tough angles work. It seems innate. It's certainly a positive. His actual arm talent is in line with most guys I think. 95%- you're talking what only Stafford and Mahomes being better? Nah.

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10 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Too much being made of fancy throws. There are no style points. The position requires you to consistently throw it to the guy.

+1

Again, the metrics:

His On-Target % is 74.7%, good for 20th in the NFL.  

His Bad Throw % is 18.5%, good for 24th in the NFL.

His receivers Drop % in 3.6%, good for 7th best in the NFL.

And while his pressure metrics certainly aren't good, they're not the worst in the NFL.  A number of QB's have less time to throw than Sam, and face more blitzes and pressures and hits on him.

He's improving.  He's still showing flashes of great talent and potential.  He's still very much worth investing around.

He's not there yet and he's not consistent enough yet. 

Stress yet.  We all want to see him with a materially improved O-line to see how he does with more time.  

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

9-2, 66.9% Completions, 220.6 YPG/2,427 Yards, 24 TD's, 5 INT's, 111.4 QB Rating, 876 Yards Rushing and 6 Rushing TD's. 

6-3, 65.6% Completions, 312.0 YPG/2,808 Yards, 19 TD's, 2 INT's, 110.0 QB Rating, #1 in NFL in YPA. 141 Yards Rushing.

And of course....

4-4, 63.9% Completions, 239.4 YPG/1,915 Yards, 13 TD's, 10 INT's, 86.3 QB Rating.  38 Yards Rushing and 2 Rushing TD's.

Also:  Had Mono.  Also, his team started 1-7.

Why on earth, do you think, would anyone talk more about those first two than that third one? :-k

I get that Jets Fans are encased in a permanent bitter inferiority complex combined with the world worst case of angry little-man syndrome, but come on man. 

Of course they're going to talk about two MVP & Super Bowl candidates more than a guy who had Mono and whose team was out of contention by week 8.

Maybe, when Sam starts to really produce i.e. lives up to all the hype and praise and love he gets here, they'll start talking more about him, too.

So glad you are able to piss in everyone's Wheaties on a regular basis. 

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7 minutes ago, shevys said:

So glad you are able to piss in everyone's Wheaties on a regular basis. 

Sorry if facts and your own selective reading of my posts bothers you so Shev.  You can always put me on ignore if you like.  

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3 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

That video made me release. 

#Metoo

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21 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Darnold excels in making tough angles work. It seems innate. It's certainly a positive. His actual arm talent is in line with most guys I think. 95%- you're talking what only Stafford and Mahomes being better? Nah.

Yeah I don't see generational arm strength, but it's not like he needs it. It's strong enough to make every throw necessary. If Mahomes / Stafford / Rodgers / similar can also make that one extra "Holy crap" completion every 2-4 weeks it sure doesn't hurt any, but that little extra oomph on his fastball isn't nearly what would transform Darnold into a top 3 QB either. 

I don't know what to make of him overall yet, but he's looked terrific of late and we're all enjoying it. He makes some bonehead moves; some not so smart that he got away with. But he's just a baby in NFL terms - still younger today than almost all QBs when they're drafted - and anyway there's no such thing as a mistake-free young QB (behind such a weak OL, no less). 

He's still going to have multi-pick games (and it would shock no one if it happened 1-2 more times before this season ends). We were not serious contenders this soph year of his - especially with all the injuries - so he gets another mulligan to get in lots more lumps without hurting the team. I'm more hoping he's putting it all together next year when it'll hopefully count for the first time. We'll see if that happens.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Sorry if facts and your own selective reading of my posts bothers you so Shev.  You can always put me on ignore if you like.  

Nah...sorry, don't want to ignore you because I dig most of your posts...I didn't mean to come off like a jerk, My apologies.

But it's ok to let others enjoy something without having to beat the enjoyment out of them. It's a thread about Sam Darnold being a special QB. Why bother with that jazz about LJ or Mahomes when there are tons of other threads? I guess that was what I was trying to say in a not so nice way. Again, my apologies for that. 

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13 minutes ago, shevys said:

Nah...sorry, don't want to ignore you because I dig most of your posts...I didn't mean to come off like a jerk, My apologies.

But it's ok to let others enjoy something without having to beat the enjoyment out of them.

I don't disagree, and I've been quite supportive of Sam generally speaking (hence my beef about selective reading, because I've said a number of nice things about him :) but people seem to always skip those posts, lol).

But facts are facts are facts. 

When someone gets all whiny that the NFL should be talking about Sam, not Mahomes or Jackson, that's ridiculous and should be called out for what it is, on the basis of the facts.

13 minutes ago, shevys said:

It's a thread about Sam Darnold being a special QB. Why bother with that jazz about LJ or Mahomes when there are tons of other threads?

It was a direct reply to a complaint (thinly veiled).  I would never have raised them in this thread myself.

13 minutes ago, shevys said:

I guess that was what I was trying to say in a not so nice way. Again, my apologies for that. 

Please don't apologize.  I appreciate a good debate and like it when I am questioned.  Keeps the old brain juices flowing and makes me reconsider my own views.

I like Sam, I've enjoyed watching him play.  I've said he's showing flashes of great stuff.  And that we should 100% invest in building around him.  It's hard to be more supportive than that, frankly.  It's basically 100% support for more Sam.

What I cannot stand is all the counterfactual fantasy-based hot air.  Sam is good enough to support without it, we do not need to make ourselves look stupid as a fanbase in order to support Sam Darnold.   And when we complain about Sam not getting talked about as much as Jackson and Mahomes, it makes us as a fanbase look like idiots.

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2 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

For anyone who forgot, Darnold was getting dinged quite a bit from Scouts pre-Draft, and actually rightly so (I saw many of his college games), for his “elongated” release, and how that would be a definite problem playing at the highest level (see Leftwich,Byron)....., you saw it last year, the Kid was able to TOTALLY change his throwing mechanics, basically Overnight.....Amazing!!  Not many people can do that..Ever (because of muscle memory).

Kid went from an “elongated” release to one maybe quicker than Dan Marino (per Brian Baldinger) hahaha...unbelievable.

This is one of the most overlooked aspects of his growth in the NFL so far. Don’t think I’ve ever seen a young QB quicken his release to that degree. 

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1 hour ago, Larz said:

 

 

enjoy

I watched that yesterday....   LOVE the way he is seeing the field, reading the defense and he appears to be a natural at throwing while he rolling left.  Fukking LOVE what I am seeing. 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

+1

Again, the metrics:

His On-Target % is 74.7%, good for 20th in the NFL.  

His Bad Throw % is 18.5%, good for 24th in the NFL.

His receivers Drop % in 3.6%, good for 7th best in the NFL.

And while his pressure metrics certainly aren't good, they're not the worst in the NFL.  A number of QB's have less time to throw than Sam, and face more blitzes and pressures and hits on him.

He's improving.  He's still showing flashes of great talent and potential.  He's still very much worth investing around.

He's not there yet and he's not consistent enough yet. 

Stress yet.  We all want to see him with a materially improved O-line to see how he does with more time.  

Who is measuring this and how? Darnold is one of the most accurate throwers I’ve ever seen. Can you point to one throw the last three weeks that wasn’t on the money? 

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I wrote in the game thread that this was an elite play. 

That is a play you see guys like big Ben, Rodgers, Mahomes, etc. make. 

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Too much being made of fancy throws. There are no style points. The position requires you to consistently throw it to the guy. He's had his ups and downs. The last 3 games have been promising and good, but he still has a lot of work to do. He's still 27th overall in DVOA with the last 3 good starts. The Baltimore and Pittsburgh games are going to be benchmark type of matchups.

 

LOL, I totally agree. In my mind, the throw to Anderson, while it worked, seemed to ignore the defender who almost picked it off. And, even if Darnold did see the defender, the degree of difficulty vs. taking almost as much sure yardage on the ground would have been the safer/better choice in that situation. End of the game with no timeouts, desperation time, sure. That throw makes sense.

I was encouraged by the lack of turnovers mostly. I saw a couple of throws that probably weren't the best decisions. But, he has great arm skills, which is far better than Fitzpatrick or Pennington. So, I'm very happy with that. But the league is full of guys with arms. I don't understand being giddy because a guy can throw the ball. They ALL can throw the ball. It's more about his head and that is a work in progress.

Great throw and great three games. it definitely is great to actually have time to throw. and I think some of those foolish throws were out of the desperation built into having a crap OL.

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1 hour ago, Matt39 said:

Too much being made of fancy throws. There are no style points. The position requires you to consistently throw it to the guy. He's had his ups and downs. The last 3 games have been promising and good, but he still has a lot of work to do. He's still 27th overall in DVOA with the last 3 good starts. The Baltimore and Pittsburgh games are going to be benchmark type of matchups.

 

cmon man, he isn't doing this for style, he is doing this out of necessity for the most part and also because he can. like gase said, he get out of bed and sling it.  DVOA and all that stuff mean very little to me.  Watching him play with that oline and how he senses pressure or flat out free runners has been very good to see. Also, I don't think that crowder and D.Thomas get enough credit, they have been legit pros this season.  

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16 minutes ago, Y3k said:

Who is measuring this and how? Darnold is one of the most accurate throwers I’ve ever seen. Can you point to one throw the last three weeks that wasn’t on the money? 

Ok, wait...timeout!!

So, you're saying that every throw you've seen has been on target? Shouldn't he have a something like a 90% completion rate then?

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2 minutes ago, phill1c said:

Ok, wait...timeout!!

So, you're saying that every throw you've seen has been on target? Shouldn't he have a something like a 90% completion rate then?

Show me the misses... 

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All this is raving about speculation about Sammy. As the op said, we'll only know how good he is when he has a good OL in front of him. For me, I'll know Sammy is elite when he starts consistently completing passes into double coverage. Any of the greatest QB's out there could complet e passes into double coverage because they were so confident.

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4 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

 Sams not flashy but he’s got all the throws in his  repertoire. The NFL likes to talk about Jackson and Mahomes. Let them. 

They'll be talking about Sam with Reverence soon enough. 

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No, Darnold had to actually use his voice and say he didn't like this, or wasn't comfortable doing that.

Previously Gase would ask him if he was ok running this and Darnold would say yes to everything. Once he started being honest about his limitations things improved

Right.  And Gase had to be prompted to do what should have been a matter of course for a legit HC/OC.  They also started doing a lot more man blocking up front as well.  That would suggest more measures were taken rather than Gase picking a few play cards out of his shoe-box and throwing them away


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26 minutes ago, phill1c said:

So, "throwaways" aren't counted in your vision?

No... a throw away is an accurate throw if that’s what the QB intended to do 

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Let's compare daks and Darnolds game vs the Patriots to see how they stack up.

 
Just for the heck of it I pulled up the stats from the Cowboys - Patriots game this past weekend.
Dak Prescott has guys like Amari Cooper and Ezekiel Elliott, right?  He has an All Pro offensive line?  And he did this vs. the Pats...
1886838531_ScreenShot2019-11-26at2_21_18PM.png.ee50a2e5da2c5855b6a981937a2afeec.png
So Sam had no protection and no weapons and had a crappy game vs. New England?  Color me shocked!


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3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

He should not have thrown that pass. It was a poor decision. He chose to throw a risky pass that had to be perfect to work over running for an easy first down. 

And I believe I saw a quote from Gase where he said he told Sam that exact thing after that play.  The pass was inadvisable as it was a low percentage play with a LOT of defenders around to picket off say with a deflection, even though it was completed....but man, what touch.

 

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