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Y3k

Is Harrison an awesome player?

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No, being kind here, he’s a poor player. Watch him individually, he whiffs and gets overpowered routinely.

Sam’s just healthy now and is getting rid of the ball quickly.

That being said, with so many other needs we could sandwich him between two decent guards next season. If we can’t replace all five of the offensive linemen, Harrison and Beachum would be the ones to keep IMO. 

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7 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

No, being kind here, he’s a poor player. Watch him individually, he whiffs and gets overpowered routinely.

Sam’s just healthy now and is getting rid of the ball quickly.

That being said, with so many other needs we could sandwich him between two decent guards next season. If we can’t replace all five of the offensive linemen, Harrison and Beachum would be the ones to keep IMO. 

JUST ASK SAUL

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51 minutes ago, fullblast said:

More importantly, Darnold seems to have a good working relationship with him. Still, I have visions of Creed Humphrey dancing in my head.

Meh

Seems like these high rated centers bust almost as much as the OT’s.

Just over the past 3 years Jets fans (including myself) were going gaga over dudes like Billy Price and Pat Elflein.

Well, Price has been sh*t in Cincy losing his starting job before the season began and Elflein was such a disappointment at center that the Vikings ended up moving him to LG and burning a 1st rounder on Bradbury two years later.

I say spend heavy on the OL in FA (preferably a Scherff/Thuney combo at guard), re-sign Beachum to a 1-2 year deal and grab one of the top wideouts in Round 1.

Even if we win a few more games and pick in the teens that still leaves us in Tee Higgins/Henry Ruggs territory.

Grab an OT like Trey Adams, Trey Smith or Throckmorton in Round 2 and a developmental center with one of the 3rds or in the 4th.

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4 hours ago, Jets723 said:

Harrison deserves a lot of credit.  Let’s be honest many people were still down on him even after playing pretty well last year

Made absolutely no sense to replace Harrison, not to mention how he also had a great offseason to prepare for this season.

Virtually the second he took over for that slug Spencer Long, who Bowles was scared to replace with him being a paid Vet even though he was firing snaps everywhere but where Sam Darnold was standing,.......the “light went on for Darnold”, and he was the Top Rated Passer in the NFL over the final quarter of the season.

Why be all gung ho to replace that?

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7 hours ago, Philc1 said:

You don’t need an all pro like Mawae or Mangold.  Just someone competent

I agree.  We have been so spoiled over the last three decades at the position that when someone is bad we REALLY recognize it. 

That is why I don't think it is an indictment of Douglas.  Harrison is adequate at the position.  I don't chastise someone who comes into our situation and does not see that from day one.  He was told he needed improvement, so he tried with what little was out there.  I mean, pulling guys from retirement is an indictment of Gase not seeing what he had.  THAT is what I am more concerned with.  

 

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4 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Made absolutely no sense to replace Harrison, not to mention how he also had a great offseason to prepare for this season.

Virtually the second he took over for that slug Spencer Long, who Bowles was scared to replace with him being a paid Vet even though he was firing snaps everywhere but where Sam Darnold was standing,.......the “light went on for Darnold”, and he was the Top Rated Passer in the NFL over the final quarter of the season.

Why be all gung ho to replace that?

Again, why was Gase so gung-ho? 

I will say again: NOT an indictment of Douglas.  He comes into this situation where there is already a coach.  He HAS to take Gase's word that he needs help.  He's gotta believe him.  Not right person for system and all that.

Douglas has had a year to study this talent.  It is now up to him to a) keep the guys he thinks are worth keeping that are under contract b) give contracts to those who are worth giving contracts to  and c) find guys where a talent boost is needed.

 

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10 hours ago, Embrace the Suck said:

They learn it from our politicians.

politicians GIF

Thanks for posting this.  Love the movie.  Haven't seen it in a few years, going to go watch it now.

 

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Keep him and now go get Matt Gono from Falcons (highest graded ol for Falcons while starting all preseason games/most snaps played).  Ol is getting nasty then.  

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12 hours ago, CanadaSteve said:

Yeah, Douglas is COMPLETELY incompetent because he didn't recognize the second string center from last year who he just met, wasn't a starter.

Some of you guys just won't quit, will you?

Exactly. And any coach who looked at his film from last season would think he’s not starting material. In fact, Center was near the top of everyone’s list of the Jet’s needs this past offseason.

It appears he’s turned the corner and can now hold his own on the field, but there was no way to predict that based on last season’s play. Regardless, I’d be surprised if the Jets don’t draft or sign a Center.

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9 hours ago, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

Virtually the second he took over for that slug Spencer Long, who Bowles was scared to replace with him being a paid Vet even though he was firing snaps everywhere but where Sam Darnold was standing,.......the “light went on for Darnold”, and he was the Top Rated Passer in the NFL over the final quarter of the season.

I'm not making any excuses for Spencer Long but his hand was injured and that directly affected his ability to shotgun snap the ball. What's beyond comprehension is that moron Bowles let him continue at center.

I recall one press conference where Todd said he'd have to watch the film after being questioned about the bad snaps. Everyone who watched new exactly what was wrong except for Todd.

He could have moved Long to G and started Harrison at C. Instead Bowles stood there and watched Long make Sam play shortstop.

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1 hour ago, Big_Slick said:

I'm not making any excuses for Spencer Long but his hand was injured and that directly affected his ability to shotgun snap the ball. What's beyond comprehension is that moron Bowles let him continue at center.

I recall one press conference where Todd said he'd have to watch the film after being questioned about the bad snaps. Everyone who watched new exactly what was wrong except for Todd.

He could have moved Long to G and started Harrison at C. Instead Bowles stood there and watched Long make Sam play shortstop.

True.  He was hurt in some capacity.  Although you’d figure the snapping issues would have shown themselves ALL week in practice, which lends you to believe that no coach would play the guy on a Sunday, I mean these bad snaps went on 9 consecutive weeks.  I think a lot of it must have been the same as a pitcher who all of a sudden can’t ever throw a strike again, lot of it was mental.  And in that scenario, also, what the heck is this guy playing on Sunday for either?

I’m not sure, is Long even in the NFL at all?

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16 hours ago, Philc1 said:

At about 1/6 the cost of Mitch Morse who is out again with an injury

Who people were pissed we didn't sign.

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On 11/28/2019 at 7:55 AM, Y3k said:

Two years in a row the team and OL does a 180 when this guy comes in.

Could be a coincidence, but all of the OL problems began when Kalil became the starter.

All off season I heard about how great Harrison looked, how much work he puts in, how well he knew the protections and offense.

His teammates always speak glowingly about him, I recall specifically Osemele saying in an interview shortly after signing how impressed he was with Harrison- he said Harrison stood out as the best guy on that line...

Honestly, we came into the season with a concern at center but I actually think all the other OL spots are weaker...

He's not very good. We need an upgrade at center. 

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Harrison in my opinion is an average starting center but is above average backup at both center and guard positions. Also feel that Jonathan is an excellent locker room presence who the coaching staff loves ( didn’t understand why they signed Ryan Khalil other than they wanted some depth keeping Harrison on the bench knowing that they are thin on the O line ) with a good work ethic who the younger guys can learn from which cannot be overlooked. 

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I don't know how good Harrison is, but, damn, can someone here who says he's not good show us something?

Cause I'm not seeing good or bad, just that he's outperformed Spencer (can't snap) Long and Ryan (AARP) Kalil.

IMO, the Jets primary issues are at OG. the C position is fine, now.

And I don't abide criticisms that rely on individual, undocumented observations.

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he;s shown that he was better than trhe 2 dudes they chose as starters. Thats undeniable.

And the correlation between Harrison starting and the the other 2 dogs sitting and Sams success is

startling.

 

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PFF grades:

  • name: Rating (sacks allowed)
  • Kalil: 46.7 (1)
  • Edoga: 49.7 (6)
  • Compton: 51.8 (1)
  • Harrison: 55.2 (0)
  • Lewis: 58.2 (2)
  • Shell: 64.7 (4)
  • Winters: 66.3 (1)
  • Beachum: 67.9 (4)

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12 hours ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

He's not very good. We need an upgrade at center. 

Quick tell me who the 49ers or Saints Centers are without using google

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20 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Who people were pissed we didn't sign.

The hysteria over the jets needing a big name C is what caused the Ryan Kalil debacle 

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Harrison is a great backup Center but not a great starter. He'll hold the line, he'll make the calls, but in terms of leverage he doesn't do much of anything for the run game and is only so-so as a pass blocker.

In short he's okay, a better option than some of the flame-outs they've had since Mangold left but not a true long term answer if we're being honest with ourselves.

I am VERY happy he's on roster for next year, having a center that Sam's comfortable with who can come in in a pinch is really nice. But dammit we need upside, we somebody who can "grow up" with Darnold and provide more than just adequate on field results. 

We can do better. We can do worse. Either way we need a long term answer and it's not Harrison. I can say the same of Beachum.

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11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Quick tell me who the 49ers or Saints Centers are without using google

Not sure what that's suppose to mean or how it's a defense of Harrison as a player...

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2 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Not sure what that's suppose to mean or how it's a defense of Harrison as a player...

You guys keep claiming we can’t have a good OL unless the starting Center is a household name 

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11 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Quick tell me who the 49ers or Saints Centers are without using google

Part of playing an OL position is that if they're average or above average they're just about invisible. It's only the below average or pro bowl players that get the press coverage.

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6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

You guys keep claiming we can’t have a good OL unless the starting Center is a household name 

Sam deserves a top tier Center to grow with. Heck even Clemens and Sanchez had Mangold.

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4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

You guys keep claiming we can’t have a good OL unless the starting Center is a household name 

Not me. We don't have a good O-Line because we don't have anybody whose better than an average player on the line. Can Harrison play in the league? I guess. But he still grades out on PFF as the 26th overall center in the league. If you put him in between two really good guards he'd be fine. But when you have a line where every position is mediocre at best, it's a problem.

And if the Jets want to make him their starter than that's fine. But the line around him needs to be massively upgraded. You can say that about almost anyone on their line like I mentioned. This team needs to go out and draft a lineman early and sign two legitimate upgrades via free agency. 

I don't need household names, I just need guys who can pass protect, and open up holes.

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4 minutes ago, TNJet said:

Sam deserves a top tier Center to grow with. Heck even Clemens and Sanchez had Mangold.

We have way bigger issues in the roster than upgrading over Harrison 

 

This hysteria is exactly what led us to sign Ryan “the famous turd” Kalil

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

We have way bigger issues in the roster than upgrading over Harrison 

 

This hysteria is exactly what led us to sign Ryan “the famous turd” Kalil

Bigger issues than upgrading 4 positions on the oline? I disagree. We need a good LT, C,  and atleast 1 more G to be a good offensive line again. Shell can be our RT he's not the problem, he just struggles when next to Winters.

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1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Can Harrison play in the league? I guess. But he still grades out on PFF as the 26th overall center in the league. If you put him in between two really good guards he'd be fine. But when you have a line where every position is mediocre at best, it's a problem.

totally agree here. But I also think his poor grading NOW may not be chronic. Yes, we need upgrades. Because as bad as Harrison is, he's still better than the OGs playing next to him, according to PFF grades.

That said, I posted the PFF grades for the OL in a separate post. It had Winters as the second best grading OL on the Jets. Kalil was the worst. But whatever the grades are/were, there is no doubt that over the last 3 games, when Winters and Kalil have not been starting, the OL is looking professional. No, they still don't get much push in the running game, but they do seem to give Darnold plenty of time vs. the jailbreaks that he had to endure with Winters and Kalil.

The tackle spot is another matter, where the RT position seems ok but the LT is in flux because of the FA status of Beachum. Plus, we could use an upgrade there. I mean, we could use an upgrade across the board, but, right now, it's good enough to score 4 TDs per game.

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1 hour ago, Philc1 said:

You guys keep claiming we can’t have a good OL unless the starting Center is a household name 

Seriously 

Getting the next Mawae or Mangold isn’t a must.

I have no problem with guys like Beachum and Harrison returning as starters next year.

It’s the guard spots and RT that are the big issue.

Go all in on bringing in Scherff and Thuney and draft an OT within the first 2 rounds.

 

LT Kelvin Beachum 

LG Joe Thuney 

C Jonotthan Harrison 

RG Brandon Scherff 

RT 2nd Round Rookie 

 

I’d sign up for that right now in a heartbeat.

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On 11/28/2019 at 7:55 AM, Y3k said:

Two years in a row the team and OL does a 180 when this guy comes in.

Could be a coincidence, but all of the OL problems began when Kalil became the starter.

All off season I heard about how great Harrison looked, how much work he puts in, how well he knew the protections and offense.

His teammates always speak glowingly about him, I recall specifically Osemele saying in an interview shortly after signing how impressed he was with Harrison- he said Harrison stood out as the best guy on that line...

Honestly, we came into the season with a concern at center but I actually think all the other OL spots are weaker...

harrison is doing a good job and he seems to be one of those high character guys too.  imo harrison's play just means the jets don't need to add a free agent or pick high in the draft for a center.  they need to keep their money and draft picks for impact players.

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22 hours ago, phill1c said:

PFF grades:

  • name: Rating (sacks allowed)
  • Kalil: 46.7 (1)
  • Edoga: 49.7 (6)
  • Compton: 51.8 (1)
  • Harrison: 55.2 (0)
  • Lewis: 58.2 (2)
  • Shell: 64.7 (4)
  • Winters: 66.3 (1)
  • Beachum: 67.9 (4)

The only rating on that list that seems a bit generous to me is Winters.  The fact that the Jets OL is pass protecting better (the run blocking is still crap) than it was is NOT proof that Harrison is somehow a good starter.  That's a classic post hoc fallacy. Dont' confuse "not awful" with "awesome."

Much more likely is a variety of reasons. One, the schedule has lightened up considerably over earlier in the year.  Thus, more wins and the offense looks better. Both NE games are long gone, for example. Buffalo in week one was a load. The Eagles are gone. Cleveland has a DE that gave the Jets OT fits.

 Gase's play calling has improved a bunch since earlier in the season.  We're seeing more rollouts, misdirection, etc. We saw virtually none of that in the earlier games. And Darnold has looked much sharper and decisive in recent weeks, very likely due in part to full recovery from mono.

On the line itself, Osmele, who was probably the worst guy on the OL, is now long gone.  While flawed himself, Lewis has been a lot better (but he's still not good). Kalil was very bad, so Harrison has been a slight upgrade, but he's basically just a JAG.

The best OL the Jets have is Beachum, yet the Jets really need a young, talented LT, hopefully in round one.  Then, a young talented C, then another young guy.  If they can sign a quality OL too, good.  Not a Mike Mac JAG special. It is time to BUILD a quality OL around Darnold.

 

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On 11/28/2019 at 11:01 AM, Saul Goodman said:

No, being kind here, he’s a poor player. Watch him individually, he whiffs and gets overpowered routinely.

Sam’s just healthy now and is getting rid of the ball quickly.

That being said, with so many other needs we could sandwich him between two decent guards next season. If we can’t replace all five of the offensive linemen, Harrison and Beachum would be the ones to keep IMO. 

Harrison is a solid backup C and G.  Drafting a young stud in round 2 or 3 to replace him as starter allows him to go back to that, thus improving the depth.  I'd only keep Beachum as depth, if possible, or as a "hold the fort" guy if he can be signed reasonably.  I'm really hoping that Edoga improves enough in these final weeks to be penciled in at RT for next year.

I think the two biggest reasons for the Jets offense looking better recently are 1. Darnold is probably fully recovered from mono, thus getting Gase to finally open up the playbook for more variety, esp. rollouts, which Darnold excels at.  And second, weaker teams overall in the past few weeks. 

The upcoming games vs. Baltimore and at Buffalo will be interesting to evaluate the OL's development or lack thereof.

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On 11/28/2019 at 9:24 AM, Philc1 said:

You don’t need an all pro like Mawae or Mangold.  Just someone competent

Center is such an underrated and thankless position, but you are right. Solid, consistent and competent .

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