A bunch of Giants articles about Leonard Williams buyer’s remorse suspiciously published concurrently

[T0mShane]

https://nypost.com/2019/11/30/leonard-williams-task-prove-giants-were-right-and-jets-were-wrong/

https://nypost.com/2019/11/30/inside-leonard-williams-debate-whats-his-worth-to-giants/

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/59985/keeping-leonard-williams-with-giants-not-all-about-the-money?platform=amp

 

The Post has two, Schwartz has another one, and it was a topic on SNY last night. Theme of all three is the same: why would the Giants trade a high two for a guy like this during a rebuild season, and how can they justify paying him? If you’re of a conspiratorial mind, they’re going to clean house at the end of the season—starting with Gettleman—and they’re going to use the absurd Williams trade as the hook. The Maras hate firing anyone and John Mara is super-sensitive to public criticism, so having all these stories hit the papers at the same time feels like someone is greasing the skids and lessening the PR fallout. 
 

Bottom line: big win for Joe Douglas.

[Warfish]

The trade seemed odd to every Giants fan I know at the time.  Seemed odd to me too.

Good on Douglas for it, looks like it's working out well for us.

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, Warfish said:

The trade seemed odd to every Giants fan I know at the time.  Seemed odd to me too.

Good on Douglas for it, looks like it's working out well for us.

It will work out well if the yield from the pick(s) produce.

Regardless, the Jets apparently were not going to re-sign him, I don't believe we may have gotten a comp pick at all, so the ammunition in re-stocking the roster makes it smart.

And, the defense has not seemed to miss him.

[joewilly12]

Who? 

[Maxman]

Love this!

Now Douglas is going to sign Leonard Williams back for 3 million a year. J/K.

[Maxman]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

It will work out well if the yield from the pick(s) produce.

Regardless, the Jets apparently were not going to re-sign him, I don't believe we may have gotten a comp pick at all, so the ammunition in re-stocking the roster makes it smart.

And, the defense has not seemed to miss him.

That's the thing, Leonard didn't live up to the draft pick position but he wasn't a bad player. yet somehow the defensive line is actually playing much better without him. Crazy. But great news.

[ZachEY]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

https://nypost.com/2019/11/30/leonard-williams-task-prove-giants-were-right-and-jets-were-wrong/

https://nypost.com/2019/11/30/inside-leonard-williams-debate-whats-his-worth-to-giants/

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/59985/keeping-leonard-williams-with-giants-not-all-about-the-money?platform=amp

 

The Post has two, Schwartz has another one, and it was a topic on SNY last night. Theme of all three is the same: why would the Giants trade a high two for a guy like this during a rebuild season, and how can they justify paying him? If you’re of a conspiratorial mind, they’re going to clean house at the end of the season—starting with Gettleman—and they’re going to use the absurd Williams trade as the hook. The Maras hate firing anyone and John Mara is super-sensitive to public criticism, so having all these stories hit the papers at the same time feels like someone is greasing the skids and lessening the PR fallout. 
 

Bottom line: big win for Joe Douglas.

Let’s hope you’re wrong.

Better draft pick if they keep him.

[sec101row23]

I’m not sure how the Jets defense has been able to play so well without LW getting doubled teamed all game.  

[Jets723]

It was dumb for the Giants mainly because they are a rebuilding team. Giving up a high third and potentially another 4th is counter productive especially since they could of signed Leo as a FA if they wanted him that badly. Kudos to Douglas for getting that return 

[RonaldJet]

Gettleman likes big men 

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, T0mShane said:

https://nypost.com/2019/11/30/leonard-williams-task-prove-giants-were-right-and-jets-were-wrong/

https://nypost.com/2019/11/30/inside-leonard-williams-debate-whats-his-worth-to-giants/

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/59985/keeping-leonard-williams-with-giants-not-all-about-the-money?platform=amp

 

The Post has two, Schwartz has another one, and it was a topic on SNY last night. Theme of all three is the same: why would the Giants trade a high two for a guy like this during a rebuild season, and how can they justify paying him? If you’re of a conspiratorial mind, they’re going to clean house at the end of the season—starting with Gettleman—and they’re going to use the absurd Williams trade as the hook. The Maras hate firing anyone and John Mara is super-sensitive to public criticism, so having all these stories hit the papers at the same time feels like someone is greasing the skids and lessening the PR fallout. 
 

Bottom line: big win for Joe Douglas.

"There is much to like about Leonard Williams: good guy, good teammate, good player. Except being the sixth-overall pick of the NFL draft can be a curse, because the sixth-overall pick is supposed to make the impact that Jamal Adams is making now for the Jets"

[T0mShane]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

There is much to like about Leonard Williams: good guy, good teammate, good player. Except being the sixth-overall pick of the NFL draft can be a curse, because the sixth-overall pick is supposed to make the impact that Jamal Adams is making now for the Jets

I’d bet a shiny nickel that Jamal Adams is not a Jet next year. 

[Jets723]

12 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’d bet a shiny nickel that Jamal Adams is not a Jet next year. 

Unless a team gives up at least two firsts the Jets aren’t trading him no matter how much of a pain in the ass he can be

[T0mShane]

1 minute ago, Jets723 said:

Unless a team gives up at least two firsts the Jets aren’t trading him no matter how much of a pain in the ass he can be

You wouldn’t get two firsts for Aaron Rodgers.

[Scott Dierking]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You wouldn’t get two firsts for Aaron Rodgers.

That the Jets got 2 first round picks for Keyshawn Johnson was an absolute coup. 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

That the Jets got 2 first round picks for Keyshawn Johnson was an absolute coup. 

Parcells Magic!

[pdxgreen]

[TNJet]

50 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Who? 

Ya know, the guy who made 1 tackle a game and was outshined by Foley, Shep, and Henry?? Remember?

[T0mShane]

I was amused by the repeated usage of “he does things that don’t show up on the stat sheet” until I remembered that Quinnen Williams supposedly “does a lot of things that don’t show up on the stat sheet.”

[slats]

48 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

It will work out well if the yield from the pick(s) produce.

Regardless, the Jets apparently were not going to re-sign him, I don't believe we may have gotten a comp pick at all, so the ammunition in re-stocking the roster makes it smart.

And, the defense has not seemed to miss him.

I think @Warfish meant it was a odd trade from the jints' perspective, not the Jets. We all knew he was on the block. 

I'd like to think that Douglas would've been capable of managing free agency next year in such a way to get themselves a comp pick for Leo, but the bottom line is that the best they could've done would've been a pick at the end of the third round in 2021. Instead, they have a high third next year and a bonus pick the following year. 

You're right, now they have to turn those picks into players, but that was a great trade before he makes a selection. 

47 minutes ago, Maxman said:

That's the thing, Leonard didn't live up to the draft pick position but he wasn't a bad player. yet somehow the defensive line is actually playing much better without him. Crazy. But great news.

It's a shame because he seems like a genuinely good guy. The kind of guy you really want to root for. Unfortunately, in the end, he's just been a half-step slow his entire NFL career; getting QB pressures and hits, but rarely getting the sack. 

25 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’d bet a shiny nickel that Jamal Adams is not a Jet next year. 

Douglas will be willing to discuss trading anyone on the roster not named Darnold next year, but Adams' price has gone way up in recent weeks. He's not a guy that JD will be looking to just get off the roster, he's a guy he'll be looking to potentially get a haul for. 

[T0mShane]

20 minutes ago, slats said:

Douglas will be willing to discuss trading anyone on the roster not named Darnold next year, but Adams' price has gone way up in recent weeks. He's not a guy that JD will be looking to just get off the roster, he's a guy he'll be looking to potentially get a haul for. 

I agree, but I don’t think Douglas’s price will be two first or anything close to that. Looking at the early mock drafts, they have two Adams-like players going in the top 20, and you’d figure that teams who are disposed to draft those kinds of players might also be inclined to send that top 20 pick and an additional third (plus?) to the Jets for Adams, upon which I think Douglas would bite. The free agents classes for OL and CB are barren, but there are plenty of decent safeties, so—assuming Douglas burns his top ten pick on a left tackle, he can convert Jamal Adams into:

a starting center or CB (later Rd 1 pick), plus an RT, LB, or SS with the additional three and then just sign someone like Vonn Bell to fill in at strong safety. 
 

Hypothetically, you can leave the draft with Tristan Wirfs and Jamal Adams, or you can get Tristan Wirfs, Tyler Biadasz, an athletic OLB prospect, and a relatively minimal investment in a free agent to play SS. And that’s not including what Douglas could reap with the existing picks. 

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, T0mShane said:

I agree, but I don’t think Douglas’s price will be two first or anything close to that. Looking at the early mock drafts, they have two Adams-like players going in the top 20, and you’d figure that teams who are disposed to draft those kinds of players might also be inclined to send that top 20 pick and an additional third (plus?) to the Jets for Adams, upon which I think Douglas would bite. The free agents classes for OL and CB are barren, but there are plenty of decent safeties, so—assuming Douglas burns his top ten pick on a left tackle, he can convert Jamal Adams into:

a starting center or CB (later Rd 1 pick), plus an RT, LB, or SS with the additional three and then just sign someone like Vonn Bell to fill in at strong safety. 
 

Hypothetically, you can leave the draft with Tristan Wirfs and Jamal Adams, or you can get Tristan Wirfs, Tyler Biadasz, an athletic OLB prospect, and a relatively minimal investment in a free agent to play SS. And that’s not including what Douglas could reap with the existing picks. 

I will be very interesting to watch how Douglas sets up his draft board and how he values certain positions:

-Does he feel the extreme need is to get Darnold "weapons"?

-Does he trust his expertise in evaluating offensive lineman, thus he can find value for those positions later in the draft?

 

[TuscanyTile2]

47 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

You wouldn’t get two firsts for Aaron Rodgers.

Jalen Ramsey was traded for 2 1st rounders.

[Beerfish]

Leo is still only 25 or 26 years old and is a starting calibre Dlineman.

How old is our 3rd round pick from last year? 

nothing wrong with them (Giants) making that deal.  He walks in fa and they get a comp pick back most likely.

 

[T0mShane]

2 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I will be very interesting to watch how Douglas sets up his draft board and how he values certain positions:

-Does he feel the extreme need is to get Darnold "weapons"?

-Does he trust his expertise in evaluating offensive lineman, thus he can find value for those positions later in the draft?

 

It’ll be interesting, too, to see how much time he thinks he has to get the team playoff-competitive, and if he’s conscious at all of how the roster building dynamic changes once you have to pay Darnold. He went through this last offseason with the Eagles getting choked out by the Wentz deal, and it stands to reason he has a sense of urgency toward building quickly and on the cheap, while knowing that locking yourself into expensive players are non-essential positions is rough sledding 

[slats]

7 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I agree, but I don’t think Douglas’s price will be two first or anything close to that. Looking at the early mock drafts, they have two Adams-like players going in the top 20, and you’d figure that teams who are disposed to draft those kinds of players might also be inclined to send that top 20 pick and an additional third (plus?) to the Jets for Adams, upon which I think Douglas would bite. The free agents classes for OL and CB are barren, but there are plenty of decent safeties, so—assuming Douglas burns his top ten pick on a left tackle, he can convert Jamal Adams into:

a starting center or CB (later Rd 1 pick), plus an RT, LB, or SS with the additional three and then just sign someone like Vonn Bell to fill in at strong safety. 
 

Hypothetically, you can leave the draft with Tristan Wirfs and Jamal Adams, or you can get Tristan Wirfs, Tyler Biadasz, an athletic OLB prospect, and a relatively minimal investment in a free agent to play SS. And that’s not including what Douglas could reap with the existing picks. 

If we wanna believe the Cowboys-Adams rumors, then JD was looking for an All Pro level OL and more for Adams, which is a lot. 

I agree with you that the idea of two firsts for a safety is crazy, but I don't know about him taking a 1st & 3rd for him. I think if he trades Adams, he'll want -at a minimum- a proven, pro bowl level starter for him plus a first or second rounder. Will a team pony that up? I don't know. I wouldn't. But I also don't think that I'd give up Adams for two lottery tickets. Your opinion on him is clear, but it's also clear that he's establishing himself as a difference maker on the field and backing up his talk with his play. Which is saying something, because the man can certainly talk. 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Jalen Ramsey was traded for 2 1st rounders.

Fair, but I think the Rams were selling out for a title run and now they’re a cautionary tale 

[ZachEY]

38 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I was amused by the repeated usage of “he does things that don’t show up on the stat sheet” until I remembered that Quinnen Williams supposedly “does a lot of things that don’t show up on the stat sheet.”

Ed Oliver had 2 sacks and a FF on Thanksgiving.  Not to mention a sack each week prior.

[slats]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

Ed Oliver had 2 sacks and a FF on Thanksgiving.  Not to mention a sack each week prior.

A lot of us were on that bandwagon. I've read that JD is another guy (like Mac) who puts tape ahead of measurables. Would he have taken QW, too? Oliver? Or passed on the DL all together? 

[T0mShane]

5 minutes ago, slats said:

Will a team pony that up? I don't know. I wouldn't. But I also don't think that I'd give up Adams for two lottery tickets.

That’s what makes this interesting: Jamal is probably worth more to the Jets than he’s worth on the open market, but Douglas didn’t draft him, so he has some freedom to do whatever he wants with the player, imo. 

[NamathToCaster]

Just seems like  too much of a coincidence that the moment Leo was removed from the team the pass rush dramatically improved.  Of all the bad moves the Jets have made, this one appears to favor us for a change. Happy to see something work out for the Jets.  

[jetstream23]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

https://nypost.com/2019/11/30/leonard-williams-task-prove-giants-were-right-and-jets-were-wrong/

https://nypost.com/2019/11/30/inside-leonard-williams-debate-whats-his-worth-to-giants/

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/59985/keeping-leonard-williams-with-giants-not-all-about-the-money?platform=amp

 

The Post has two, Schwartz has another one, and it was a topic on SNY last night. Theme of all three is the same: why would the Giants trade a high two for a guy like this during a rebuild season, and how can they justify paying him? If you’re of a conspiratorial mind, they’re going to clean house at the end of the season—starting with Gettleman—and they’re going to use the absurd Williams trade as the hook. The Maras hate firing anyone and John Mara is super-sensitive to public criticism, so having all these stories hit the papers at the same time feels like someone is greasing the skids and lessening the PR fallout. 
 

Bottom line: big win for Joe Douglas.

The Jets aren't winning much this year.  But they won two important things so far...

1. The PR war regarding the rebuild and Williams trade

2. The actual game vs. the Giants

 

[jetspenguin]

1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

I’d bet a shiny nickel that Jamal Adams is not a Jet next year. 

and you would lose

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, slats said:

A lot of us were on that bandwagon. I've read that JD is another guy (like Mac) who puts tape ahead of measurables. Would he have taken QW, too? Oliver? Or passed on the DL all together? 

Was QW’s tape really better than Oliver’s?  I’m not a big CFB guy, but I can’t help but feel if QW plays for a team outside the top 10, everything is different.

[Scott Dierking]

5 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

It’ll be interesting, too, to see how much time he thinks he has to get the team playoff-competitive, and if he’s conscious at all of how the roster building dynamic changes once you have to pay Darnold. He went through this last offseason with the Eagles getting choked out by the Wentz deal, and it stands to reason he has a sense of urgency toward building quickly and on the cheap, while knowing that locking yourself into expensive players are non-essential positions is rough sledding 

If we can glean anything from how the Eagles have operated their drafts and personnel, there will be moving both up and down in the draft, there will be trades and not being afraid to make moves to make the team better in a short term. How much that is a reflection of Douglas is unclear.

One thing the Philadelphia organization realized was that with Wentz there was a window of opportunity and that they needed to size that opportunity quickly.

Eagles also placed a large emphasis on building the o-line.

Most interesting off-season in some time, because, well it's not Macc.