Woody , Sell the team !!!!

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

And the Knicks made the playoffs 13 straight years with two Finals appearances under James Dolan

 

 

You act like Woody reinvented the wheel inheriting a good roster from Parcells 

Dolan didn't become really involved until 1999. Since then they made 2 or 3 playoff apps.

 

Such a good roster that 3 HCs walked out on us in a little over a year.

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Woody inherited a roster built pre Parcells and tinkered with during the BP era.  It was also old and they were in cap hell.  It's why THREE HCs walked out on us-

Bill Parcells- desperate to win again walked out essentially 3 times. After BB quit Woody tried to get him to come back then after Groh quit Woody tried again.

BB- with his HC career on the line he walked away.  It almost cost him his HC career until Brady saved him.

Groh- guy waited his entire career for that shot then quit after a year to go coach a middle of the pack college program.

Parcells drafted Abraham, Pennington, Lavernues Coles, Randy Thomas, Fabini signed Kevin Mawae, signed Vinny and traded for Curtis Martin

 

Belichick quit immediately after having a meeting with Woody that’s a fact

 

You want to give Woody credit for Parcells making those moves from 1998-2000 ok

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

The jets have had one winning season in 9 years and you act like Woody is this good owner

Woody hasn't been around for 3 years. Under Woody we never (NEVER) had back to back losing seasons.

[Jet Nut]

17 hours ago, SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN said:

Discuss .

Another over the top, extreme, threat after a loss.

Because its got to be an owner thing.  

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Woody hasn't been around for 3 years. Under Woody we never (NEVER) had back to back losing seasons.

Its all on Chris because he.....

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Dolan didn't become really involved until 1999.

Rubbish 

 

 

What happened was Dolan got exposed after Ewing retired he hired back to back horrible GMs in Layden and Thomas and the franchise never recovered 

 

The jets are in a similar downward spiral now caused directly by Woody Johnson hiring Idzik, Macagnan and now Gase three morons 

 

 

 

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Woody hasn't been around for 3 years. Under Woody we never (NEVER) had back to back losing seasons.

Because he inherited Parcells’ roster in 2001 and later had two good coaches Rex and Mangini who he screwed over

[Philc1]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Woody hasn't been around for 3 years. Under Woody we never (NEVER) had back to back losing seasons.

Again I have some Bernie Madoff mutual funds I would like to sell you

[southparkcpa]

12 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

12 seasons is a long period of time, very long in the NFL.  We were pretty good for a long time and if we didn't have a dynasty in the division we could have made SBs.

Really??? We were never capable of beating the dominant teams like the Steelers, Colts, Pats , Ravens when it mattered most.  We basically fell flat in the playoffs after a win.  2009 and 2010 were special but we lost to teams OTHER than the Pats so  I see NO basis for your delusion.  

Try not using should, could and would when describing this POS franchise.

 

[southparkcpa]

2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Again I have some Bernie Madoff mutual funds I would like to sell you

They performed really well for a long time right?

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Really??? We were never capable of beating the dominant teams like the Steelers, Colts, Pats , Ravens when it mattered most.  We basically fell flat in the playoffs after a win.  2009 and 2010 were special but we lost to teams OTHER than the Pats so  I see NO basis for your delusion.  

Try not using should, could and would when describing this POS franchise.

 

Woody inherited a very good roster and then underachieved with it we barely made the playoffs for two years and he let Bradway trade up for D-Rob, sign duds like Garnes and David Barrett and then draft a kicker essentially with a first round pick while we had holes developed on both lines

 

Woody hired Herm who was a nice guy but not a head coach.  

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

They performed really well for a long time right?

Safest investment you could make

[nyjunc]

Just now, Philc1 said:

Parcells drafted Abraham, Pennington, Lavernues Coles, Randy Thomas, Fabini signed Kevin Mawae, signed Vinny and traded for Curtis Martin

 

 

You want to give Woody credit for Parcells making those moves from 1998-2000 ok

Groh was in charge of the 2000 draft and in order to get those players (where only 1 of those players became a long time contributor) they had to trade away the rights to Belichick and keyshawn Johnson.  Great job!

Parcells inherited a young, talented roster. He also inherited the #1 pick in reach Rd in 1997.  

In the 1997 draft he had 11 picks.  He traded away a HOFer at 1st pick and drafted James farrior.  Farrior played 5 seasons here and his only successful season was 2001 under Herm in his FA year.  His only other successful pick was Jason Ferguson who dropped because of drug use.  Of the 9 other picks only dedric ward and Leon Johnson lasted in the league more than 3 seasons.

 

In 1998 he had 12 picks. Only Jason fabini became a long term starter. 10 of the picks were out of the league within 5 years.

 

1999 he had 8 picks, 7 were out of the league within 5 years.

 

He didn't trade for Curtis, he was a RFA.  He made a few good FA moves like Curtis and mawae. Picked up a couple off the scrap heap(Vinny and Cox) but overall he was a terrible GM.

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Really??? We were never capable of beating the dominant teams like the Steelers, Colts, Pats , Ravens when it mattered most.  We basically fell flat in the playoffs after a win.  2009 and 2010 were special but we lost to teams OTHER than the Pats so  I see NO basis for your delusion.  

Try not using should, could and would when describing this POS franchise.

 

In fairness we beat the Pats and Colts when it mattered most.  We just couldn't beat them, one after the other, on the road in the same year.  

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Rubbish 

 

 

What happened was Dolan got exposed after Ewing retired he hired back to back horrible GMs in Layden and Thomas and the franchise never recovered 

 

The jets are in a similar downward spiral now caused directly by Woody Johnson hiring Idzik, Macagnan and now Gase three morons 

 

 

 

"The NBA has a generous postseason; more than half the teams (16 out of 30) qualify for the playoffs. But the Knicks, for the sixth straight year, wouldn’t be among them. Dolan took full control of the team in 2000. That season the Knicks reached the Eastern Conference finals, marking the end of a golden era. From 1987 to 1999, they qualified for 13 consecutive playoffs. Then the wheels fell off.

In 19 seasons under Dolan’s watch, the team has advanced to the postseason just five times and won a playoff series only once, in 2013."

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-07-26/is-the-knicks-james-dolan-the-worst-owner-in-professional-sports

 

[nyjunc]

9 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Really??? We were never capable of beating the dominant teams like the Steelers, Colts, Pats , Ravens when it mattered most.  We basically fell flat in the playoffs after a win.  2009 and 2010 were special but we lost to teams OTHER than the Pats so  I see NO basis for your delusion.  

Try not using should, could and would when describing this POS franchise.

 

We are 2-1 against the colts in the playoffs, 1-1 vs NE, never played Baltimore.  The only team we haven't beaten was Pitt and we lost 2 close games on the road.

 

Without NE in the division we win more division titles, have more home playoff games and potential byes making it easier to advance.

[nyjunc]

8 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Woody inherited a very good roster and then underachieved with it we barely made the playoffs for two years and he let Bradway trade up for D-Rob, sign duds like Garnes and David Barrett and then draft a kicker essentially with a first round pick while we had holes developed on both lines

 

Woody hired Herm who was a nice guy but not a head coach.  

A roster so good not one, not two but THREE HCs walked out on it(one of them walked away essentially 3 times).

[southparkcpa]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

In fairness we beat the Pats and Colts when it mattered most.  We just couldn't beat them, one after the other, on the road in the same year.  

When mattered most is when the SB was next.  What I wrote was in his specific context of saying without the Pats, we would have been in SB's. Yes, plural. 

[Warfish]

30 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

......his total record is well below average.

Is it?

Since the Johnson's took over the team (2001 season), the Jets are:

136-164 (a winning % of .453).

Of the 19 seasons, the Jets made the playoffs 6 times (a playoff rate of .316).

Of those 6 playoff seasons, the Jets lost two AFCCG's and made it to no Super Bowls.

To compare vs. our own Pre-Johnson's history:

In 41 seasons before the Johnson's, the Jets were:

269-335 (a winning % of .445).

Of those 41 seasons, the Jets made the playoffs 8 times (a playoff rate of .195).

Of those 8 playoff seasons, the Jets lost 2 AFCCG's and won 1 Super Bowl.

Seems like the Johnson Era is superior to the Pre-Johnson Era.  Not by much, yet still materially better making the postseason.

We've always been one of the worst franchises in football, but I'm willing to bet we're near the middle in overall record/postseasons apeparances in the Johnson Era.  I'm just not doing this math for every team to prove it/find out, lol!

 

[southparkcpa]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

We are 2-1 against the colts in the playoffs, 1-1 vs NE, never played Baltimore.  The only team we haven't beaten was Pitt and we lost 2 close games on the road.

 

Without NE in the division we win more division titles, have more home playoff games and potential byes making it easier to advance.

NEVER beat a team when it mattered most...  when the SB mattered. Your point was we WOULD HAVE been in SB's without the PATS .

[nyjunc]

3 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

NEVER beat a team when it mattered most...  when the SB mattered. Your point was we WOULD HAVE been in SB's without the PATS .

Ohhhh, it didn't matter in the 2002 playoffs shutting out Peyton? It didn't matter in the 2010 playoffs beating Brady and Peyton?  It only matters when you say it matters.  Got it

[Warfish]

Interestingly, the Johnson Era shows a serious decline in the average Offensive rankings of the Jets.

For the 41 seasons Pre-Johnsons, the Jets averaged finishing 13th in points scored and 14th in Offensive Yards.  

For the 19 Johnson seasons, the Jets averaged finishing 21st in Scoring and 23rd in Offensive Yards.

This has coincided with an era seriously focuced on the defense, using 14 of 19 first round picks n Defense!

Yet we see no meaningful increase in our average Defensive Rankings during the Johnson era compared to the Pre-Johnson Era!

For the 41 seasons Pre-Johnsons, the Jets averaged finishing 15th in points allowed and 15th in yards allowed.

For the 19 seasons of the Johnsons, the Jets averaged finishing 16th in points allowed and 13th in yards allowed.

if anything this shows is the Johnson Era focus on Defense, drafting defense, defensive coaches, and (IMO) an overall over-investment in Defense SIMPLY HASN'T PAID OFF!!!  

Our offense has suffered, becoming one of the bottom of the league offenses during this period.  

Our defense has basically stood still.  A few good years under Rex, pretty meh otherwise.  

[southparkcpa]

35 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Is it?

Since the Johnson's took over the team (2001 season), the Jets are:

136-164 (a winning % of .453).

Of the 19 seasons, the Jets made the playoffs 6 times (a playoff rate of .316).

Of those 6 playoff seasons, the Jets lost two AFCCG's and made it to no Super Bowls.

To compare vs. our own Pre-Johnson's history:

In 41 seasons before the Johnson's, the Jets were:

269-335 (a winning % of .445).

Of those 41 seasons, the Jets made the playoffs 8 times (a playoff rate of .195).

Of those 8 playoff seasons, the Jets lost 2 AFCCG's and won 1 Super Bowl.

Seems like the Johnson Era is superior to the Pre-Johnson Era.  Not by much, yet still materially better making the postseason.

We've always been one of the worst franchises in football, but I'm willing to bet we're near the middle in overall record/postseasons apeparances in the Johnson Era.  I'm just not doing this math for every team to prove it/find out, lol!

 

Below average...  OK.  

[southparkcpa]

33 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

Ohhhh, it didn't matter in the 2002 playoffs shutting out Peyton? It didn't matter in the 2010 playoffs beating Brady and Peyton?  It only matters when you say it matters.  Got it

You said WOULD HAVE been in SB and yes, THAT is when it matters.  Unless mediocrity is what you seek.

 

There has NEVER been a time when after the Pats, we were second best in the AFC. 2010 would be close.

[nyjunc]

5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

You said WOULD HAVE been in SB and yes, THAT is when it matters.  Unless mediocrity is what you seek.

 

There has NEVER been a time when after the Pats, we were second best in the AFC. 2010 would be close.

I said COULD HAVE not would have.

Again, without NE we win more division titles, have more chances at byes making it easier to get to the SB.  

[Warfish]

9 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Unless mediocrity is what you seek.

Got to admit, after the last few years, I'd take 2001-2010 level mediocrity.  10 years, 6 playoff seasons.  Yeah, I'd take that right now.

[southparkcpa]

13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Got to admit, after the last few years, I'd take 2001-2010 level mediocrity.  10 years, 6 playoff seasons.  Yeah, I'd take that right now.

a Steelers, Pats, Ravens, Packers organization would never say that.  Im reminded of 2006. Yes we were all pleased we made the playoffs but we got blown out by the Pats.  But after a while, simply being the fodder for someone else's playoff run becomes tiresome. I fear that Woody thinks like you do and @nyjunc  I have met MANY Jets fans that do. I simply have never accepted mediocrity.  I repeat, Woody was fine marching out McCown and Fitz for 4 years. THAT is a lifetime.  He has no REAL vision to win.  NONE and fans who believe like you do, allow it. All respect.

[Warfish]

36 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

a Steelers, Pats, Ravens, Packers organization would never say that.

I'm sure you're aware, but it bears repeating:  We're not the Steelers, Packers or Patriots, and we never, ever have been.  Not even close.

So yes, I would accept 6 of the next 10 seasons being playoff seasons, with a chance in the postseason over what we have currently (i.e. complete non-competitiveness).

36 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Im reminded of 2006. Yes we were all pleased we made the playoffs but we got blown out by the Pats.  But after a while, simply being the fodder for someone else's playoff run becomes tiresome.

Perhaps.

Know what I find more tiresome?

3, 4 or 5 win seasons after seasons.

36 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I simply have never accepted mediocrity.

What we "accept" or do not accept is irrelevant, you know that.  

36 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I repeat, Woody was fine marching out McCown and Fitz for 4 years. THAT is a lifetime.

Fitz had close to the best season in Jets QB history and missed the playoffs (and that chance I mentioned above) by a hair.

They tried it again, and it failed, mostly (IMO) due to injuries and bad GM work quibbling over pennies instead of getting Fitz in early and ready.

McCown was a placeholder till we drafted a guy, and the GM failed to draft one when he had the chance (Mahomes, Watson).

36 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

  He has no REAL vision to win.  NONE and fans who believe like you do, allow it. All respect.

No disrespect taken.

With that said, I don't want my Owner driving our "vision to win", or "Dan Snydering" as I like to call it.  That is the explicit job of the President of Football Operations, driving the choice of General Manager and player personnel staff people, not the Owner.  When those decisions are made by the Owner, you've already lost.

I want my Owner to do three things and three things only:

1. Hire the right GM and create the proper reporting and responsibility structure.  Woody has failed to do this (bad structure, no Pres. of Football Ops, etc.).

2. Stay the hell out of player decisions.  Woody has, IMO, done this.  Fan conspiracy theories to the contrary aside.

3. Write every single check, no matter how large, the GM asks you to write.  Woody has done this.

[southparkcpa]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I

With that said, I don't want my Owner driving our "vision to win", or "Dan Snydering" as I like to call it.  That is the explicit job of the President of Football Operations, driving the choice of General Manager and player personnel staff people, not the Owner.  When those decisions are made by the Owner, you've already lost.  I believe Woody meddles.

I want my Owner to do three things and three things only:

1. Hire the right GM and create the proper reporting and responsibility structure.  Woody has failed to do this (bad structure, no Pres. of Football Ops, etc.).  WHY WOODY SUCKS for $200 Alex

2. Stay the hell out of player decisions.  Woody has, IMO, done this.  Fan conspiracy theories to the contrary aside. WHY WOODY asked for Tebow and is involved in Jets drafting as evidenced in Hard Knocks  for $300 Alex.

3. Write every single check, no matter how large, the GM asks you to write.  Woody has done this. OK, 

OK.

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

I believe Woody meddles.

I don't, and I've seen no evidence of it.  To me, this is the same conspiracy theory area as "the Refs call differently against the Jets".  When Owners meddle, people know it, unquestionably.  Again, Dan Snyder exibut #1.

2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

1. Hire the right GM and create the proper reporting and responsibility structure.  Woody has failed to do this (bad structure, no Pres. of Football Ops, etc.).  WHY WOODY SUCKS for $200 Alex

Agreed.  Our structure is a very serious deficiency.

2 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

2. Stay the hell out of player decisions.  Woody has, IMO, done this.  Fan conspiracy theories to the contrary aside. WHY WOODY asked for Tebow and is involved in Jets drafting as evidenced in Hard Knocks  for $300 Alex.

Yeah, I think it's vastly overstated, but agree to disagree.  I refuse to defend bad, weak, stupid GM's by blaming a supposedly meddling Owner.

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

a Steelers, Pats, Ravens, Packers organization would never say that.  Im reminded of 2006. Yes we were all pleased we made the playoffs but we got blown out by the Pats.  But after a while, simply being the fodder for someone else's playoff run becomes tiresome. I fear that Woody thinks like you do and @nyjunc  I have met MANY Jets fans that do. I simply have never accepted mediocrity.  I repeat, Woody was fine marching out McCown and Fitz for 4 years. THAT is a lifetime.  He has no REAL vision to win.  NONE and fans who believe like you do, allow it. All respect.

All you can all for is a chance. We had legit SB chances in 2002, 2009 and 2010(I would say 2008 with better QB play).  That's pretty good especially when in a division with the greatest dynasty the sport has ever seen.  Could we get over the hump? Nope and that sucked but we had chances.  A few breaks go our way and we are the 07/11 Giants, a few go against them and they are the 09/10 Jets.  

[jmat321]

Other than the Yankees, IMO right now the best ownership crew in the NYC market is the Islanders.  Not a real hockey fan myself, just observing from afar.  The owners themselves actually were riding the LIRR to games at Barclays for a while.  Interacting with the fans in an uncontrolled setting, not some BS focus group of STHs, getting real feedback.  Started playing more games in an arena where their fans actually live.  They hired a HOF GM and a championship coach.  The owners must have came off as competent enough that those guys would want to work for them.  It just makes me think of the Jets and what new ownership could bring to the table.  

[Jet Nut]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

Not relevant to the point:  Fan complaint is 100% irrelevant to NFL Owners.  They make great money even if, as a few teams currently, few if any people show up to the actual games.

Strength of the league is revenue sharing.  Attendance means little, getting paid anyway plus the biggest gain comes from the gold mine that is combined TV money 

[Warfish]

17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Strength of the league is revenue sharing.  Attendance means little, getting paid anyway plus the biggest gain comes from the gold mine that is combined TV money 

Yup.

Sadly, also means winning means little, at least fiscally.  

[section314]

1 hour ago, jmat321 said:

Other than the Yankees, IMO right now the best ownership crew in the NYC market is the Islanders.  Not a real hockey fan myself, just observing from afar.  The owners themselves actually were riding the LIRR to games at Barclays for a while.  Interacting with the fans in an uncontrolled setting, not some BS focus group of STHs, getting real feedback.  Started playing more games in an arena where their fans actually live.  They hired a HOF GM and a championship coach.  The owners must have came off as competent enough that those guys would want to work for them.  It just makes me think of the Jets and what new ownership could bring to the table.  

As long as Woody owns this team, no one of that caliber will even take his call.Would you?