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Name one Jets offensive lineman that you definitely want back next year as a starter. You can't.

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what's just as sad is not a single one of them will be starting anywhere else either. 

That's how bad our O-line is - not a single player from our entire 5 man starting rotation would be starting on any other team.

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

what's just as sad is not a single one of them will be starting anywhere else either. 

That's how bad our O-line is - not a single player from our entire 5 man starting rotation would be starting on any other team.

Many players if not on the NY Jets roster not in the NFL. 

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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

what's just as sad is not a single one of them will be starting anywhere else either. 

That's how bad our O-line is - not a single player from our entire 5 man starting rotation would be starting on any other team.

this is flat out Bullcrap 

Kelvin Beachum is an above average left tackle, he'd start on like a dozen NFL teams today. He is playing through 2 bum ankles at the moment

Alex Lewis is a good player, far better than what Winters or Kalil showed this year.

that's 2 starters. Harrison is replaceable backup as is Compton. they don't count. 

Brandon Shell we can argue is a borderline starter... He's no Lane Johnson but he's 27 years old with 36 games started. he's Art Shell's nephew at least as good as Bobby Hart i.e. he can start in the league possibly at guard.. they'd rather have Chuma Edoga starting at RT

Edoga had 1st round measurables and looked good at RT before they swapped him to LT and he got hurt. Give him a year in an NFL strength and conditioning program. He's only 22 by the way same as Darnold. 

and let's not forget Kelechi Osemele would be starting if he wasn't hurt. He will undoubtedly start somewhere next year in fact I'd bet charity money against anyone willing to take the other side of that 
 

Yes they need more particularly at Center but in 2020 the line could be Beachum - Lewis - X - Shell - Edoga.  Or if Beachum is too old they could be Edoga - Lewis - X - X - Shell. They don't need to draft 5 new linemen like some posters think. They have some options at tackle. They really need to replace the gaping hole at center and right guard. 

Keep in mind by the way drafting linemen is not an instant solution. They take time to grow into the job especially at tackle  

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17 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Yes they need more particularly at Center but in 2020 the line could be Beachum - Lewis - X - Shell - Edoga.  Or if Beachum is too old they could be Edoga - Lewis - X - X - Shell.

If they go into next season with just those two options, Joe Douglas has not done his job.

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34 minutes ago, peebag said:

If they go into next season with just those two options, Joe Douglas has not done his job.

I agree but this idea they need to use rd1, 2, 3  etc on OL because it's a total rebuild isn't exactly true

they need players they don't all have to be first round picks 

and they can be found in free agency, especially at center and guard  

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3 hours ago, Bomberjet said:

Simply basing it on the OL's performance so far - who else could take responsibility? Odds are the OLC would be fired first than Gase. The Penalties, the poor pass & run  blocking, miscommunication  - It stands to reason that not all of it is on the players - the coach has take take some responsibility.

I really hate to call for the firing of assistant coaches. These a working dudes with families, etc. But if there was ever cause to make some changes on the offensive staff, clearly the 2 guys running the OL need to be re-evaluated. Frank Pollack's greatest claim to fame was as OL coach for the Cowboys (2013-17) but he was let go because they couldn't pass block.  Sounds familiar. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22042934/dallas-cowboys-not-bring-back-line-coach-frank-pollack

 

 

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35 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

I really hate to call for the firing of assistant coaches. These a working dudes with families, etc. But if there was ever cause to make some changes on the offensive staff, clearly the 2 guys running the OL need to be re-evaluated. Frank Pollack's greatest claim to fame was as OL coach for the Cowboys (2013-17) but he was let go because they couldn't pass block.  Sounds familiar. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22042934/dallas-cowboys-not-bring-back-line-coach-frank-pollack

 

 

I have never been a big fan of Pollack.  He wasn't the Cowboys Oline coach from 2014-2017.  The first couple of years he was assistant offensive line coach under Callahan.  Bad news is, among the guys that Gase had on staff in Miami was Dave DeGuglielmo.  Never liked him much either.  He was with the Jets when Sparano was OC.  Not pass blocking is one thing, but they cannot run the ball for sh*t. 

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1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

I have never been a big fan of Pollack.  He wasn't the Cowboys Oline coach from 2014-2017.  The first couple of years he was assistant offensive line coach under Callahan.  Bad news is, among the guys that Gase had on staff in Miami was Dave DeGuglielmo.  Never liked him much either.  He was with the Jets when Sparano was OC.  Not pass blocking is one thing, but they cannot run the ball for sh*t. 

Yes, 2 years as assistant OL and 3 as OL. He was given a shot and wasn't good enough for them. 

The article said he was a stickler for technique.  That's a great attribute (especially for an OL assistant) but if you can't get your unit to communicate and identify who to block - their technique won't matter much!

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2 hours ago, y2k8 said:

I really hate to call for the firing of assistant coaches. These a working dudes with families, etc. But if there was ever cause to make some changes on the offensive staff, clearly the 2 guys running the OL need to be re-evaluated. Frank Pollack's greatest claim to fame was as OL coach for the Cowboys (2013-17) but he was let go because they couldn't pass block.  Sounds familiar. 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22042934/dallas-cowboys-not-bring-back-line-coach-frank-pollack

 

 

The way the Jets are structured, Gase reports to Chris Johnson.  Chris Johnson will be doing Gase’ review over the Winter.  It would be Chris’ job to tell Gase that he needs to improve his offensive and strength staffs.  I just don’t see that happening.  

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3 minutes ago, varjet said:

The way the Jets are structured, Gase reports to Chris Johnson.  Chris Johnson will be doing Gase’ review over the Winter.  It would be Chris’ job to tell Gase that he needs to improve his offensive and strength staffs.  I just don’t see that happening.  

My hope for the OL is Joe Douglas. He played the position and has to understand that his success in large part depends on a legit OL. Obviously that means drafting and signing the right guys, but he probably has influence beyond personnel.

IF JD and Gase are on the same page like everyone says - I don't think the organizational reporting structure will stop them from doing the right thing and making some key coaching staff changes. The org chart only becomes an issue if the GM and HC don't see eye to eye. (See Bowles and Mr Coffee)

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This is a nice draft for OT and Guards.  There are five top centers if the Oklahoma center comes out. My top 5 are Tyler Biadasz out of Wisconsin, Creed Humphreys of Oklahoma, Jake Hansen of Oregon, Nick Harris of Washington, and Darryll Williams of Mississippi St..  I don't think Humphreys is coming out but these are all wonderful prospects. After these 5 only Zack Shackelford of Texas comes close to these 5 centers at this time. The Ohio St. Center Josh Myers interests me but he most likely is coming back next year. Same as Drake Jackson of Kentucky who I just watched open enormous holes in the Kentucky vs Louisville game.        

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Brandon Shell seems like a player some team will pay more than they should in FA.

The irony is that the Jets have one of the worst OL in the NFL, so that team theoretically should be the Jets. 

Shell was a fifth round draft pick, and for how he played generally and the number of games he started (and what he was paid), he was a very decent draft pick.

The question now is now much to pay him to come back, if we want him back.

Someone will sign him if the Jets don’t. 

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On 12/2/2019 at 11:23 AM, JoeWillieWhiteShoesHOF said:

What’s that old saying about a wet dream?

Well Maccagnan could even f*ck up a Le’veon Bell signing hahaha ($50Mill for 2 point something a carry, yes I know lots of it has to do with having NO professionals on the OLine Maccagnan neglected for 5 YEARS). AND a CJ Moseley signing, guy who had never been hurt...bet he tears something first day of training camp next year.

There goes about $100Mill circling the drain...thanks Maccagnan.

Yeah but let him handle Free Agency AND the Draft.

PS I also have no hope for Q Williams.  The ONLY bust sandwiched in between multiple D Pro Bowlers selected around him in last year’s draft.  Everything Maccagnan ever touched turns to sh*t.

 I love your passion my friend.

You  hate Macc for his drafts and signings. Kill him all the time. That’s fine, I get that.

Yet you’re convinced he hit it out of the park with Darnold. He’s the outlier. Why?

PS please don’t mention Romo and Watt...😉

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9 hours ago, bitonti said:

this is flat out Bullcrap 

Kelvin Beachum is an above average left tackle, he'd start on like a dozen NFL teams today. He is playing through 2 bum ankles at the moment

Alex Lewis is a good player, far better than what Winters or Kalil showed this year.

that's 2 starters. Harrison is replaceable backup as is Compton. they don't count. 

Brandon Shell we can argue is a borderline starter... He's no Lane Johnson but he's 27 years old with 36 games started. he's Art Shell's nephew at least as good as Bobby Hart i.e. he can start in the league possibly at guard.. they'd rather have Chuma Edoga starting at RT

Edoga had 1st round measurables and looked good at RT before they swapped him to LT and he got hurt. Give him a year in an NFL strength and conditioning program. He's only 22 by the way same as Darnold. 

and let's not forget Kelechi Osemele would be starting if he wasn't hurt. He will undoubtedly start somewhere next year in fact I'd bet charity money against anyone willing to take the other side of that 
 

Yes they need more particularly at Center but in 2020 the line could be Beachum - Lewis - X - Shell - Edoga.  Or if Beachum is too old they could be Edoga - Lewis - X - X - Shell. They don't need to draft 5 new linemen like some posters think. They have some options at tackle. They really need to replace the gaping hole at center and right guard. 

Keep in mind by the way drafting linemen is not an instant solution. They take time to grow into the job especially at tackle  

Are you mike mccagnan in disguise!??/ Holy shi* man, this oline stinks.  Beachum, above average?  He was awful last game.  The others stink.

Edoga can be a developmental guy , we might have a back up in lewis.  The rest are garbage, not sure what you are watching this year.

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Not a single one. Shell can compete for the spot next year but not a single guy who is now starting, or started at some point this season can be penciled in as our starter. It’s that bad.

This was a very solid exercise for me. It made things very clear in my head. We’re worse than I thought.


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Revamping the OLine starts with a new OLine coach.
I’m sorry but the guy they now have must go.

I’m
Actually thinking the same thing. I was so excited that we nabbed Pollack but I’m not exactly delighted with the blocking schemes this season.


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9 hours ago, 14 in Green said:

 I love your passion my friend.

You  hate Macc for his drafts and signings. Kill him all the time. That’s fine, I get that.

Yet you’re convinced he hit it out of the park with Darnold. He’s the outlier. Why?

PS please don’t mention Romo and Watt...😉

Because I see more raw talent in Darnold than ANY QB who has played for the Jets since Namath.  Tell me who you think had more potential.

Could Darnold not live up to my expectations?  Sure.  The more he plays for this joke of a franchise that has had him running for his life on almost every play (That’s not me just talking that’s quantified, him being the most hurried QB in the NFL) for his first 2 years in the league, the more likely he never becomes what I think is possible for him.  The Jets are just a terrible organization and always will be.  Douglas is the last Hope, and he hasn’t been able to prove anything yet really..hopefully he can turn things around.

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12 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Are you mike mccagnan in disguise!??/ Holy shi* man, this oline stinks.  Beachum, above average?  He was awful last game.  The others stink.

Edoga can be a developmental guy , we might have a back up in lewis.  The rest are garbage, not sure what you are watching this year.

Beachum, when healthy, has been above average. As I said he was playing hurt last week. He is getting to the end of his career but put him on a team like New Orleans he'd be starting and no one would say he was bad. Darnold held the ball forever last week. 

Alex Lewis was a starter in Baltimore and he's a starter here 

Edoga has all the skills to be a starting tackle but he's 21 

Shell is not garbage he's a replacement level starter maybe a swing tackle. 

Compton and Harrison are garbage (but Darnold managed to play awesome with Harrison last season)

they have 2 holes mostly interior they don't need to draft 5 linemen or go lineman 1-2 like people say. Edge rush is a worse need, CB is pretty bad too. 

Coaching is probably the worst need on the team right now 

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Max.....took awhile, but I think I got the answer to the question asked in this thread. It's Hennesey, the long snapper.😁

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Beachum, when healthy, has been above average. As I said he was playing hurt last week. He is getting to the end of his career but put him on a team like New Orleans he'd be starting and no one would say he was bad. Darnold held the ball forever last week. 

Alex Lewis was a starter in Baltimore and he's a starter here 

Edoga has all the skills to be a starting tackle but he's 21 

Shell is not garbage he's a replacement level starter maybe a swing tackle. 

Compton and Harrison are garbage (but Darnold managed to play awesome with Harrison last season)

they have 2 holes mostly interior they don't need to draft 5 linemen or go lineman 1-2 like people say. Edge rush is a worse need, CB is pretty bad too. 

Coaching is probably the worst need on the team right now 

Edoga and Shell have shown nothing to point to that we can count on them to provide adequate protection going forward.  Now it might be a necessity to keep them just out of need for warm bodies to plug into the lineup. BUT..... 

We need to come up with at minimum 3 adequate replacements for the OL otherwise it's another replay of this season.

Now whether that will come from the draft or free agency is up to Joey D.

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On 12/3/2019 at 1:17 PM, Losmeister said:

whats the track record of the players and that of the coach....   one has a respectful resume...  

the 5 dudes who play OL for the NYJ? Not so much. 

All i can say to that is the OL wasn't this bad last year, and what has changed? The coaching. Granted the had to place a rookie into the mix but, even this past game that he didn't play,  the OL was just awfull.

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15 minutes ago, Bomberjet said:

All i can say to that is the OL wasn't this bad last year, and what has changed? The coaching. Granted the had to place a rookie into the mix but, even this past game that he didn't play,  the OL was just awfull.

1st off they stuck 2 new guys who barely ever practcied played in there. and now there are 2 new guards and a center...

THEY have no resume, no hx of being good, the OL coach does

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1 minute ago, Losmeister said:

1st off they stuck 2 new guys who barely ever practcied played in there. and now there are 2 new guards and a center...

THEY have no resume, no hx of being good, the OL coach does

The coach was ousted from the Cowboys and spent 1 year with the lowly  Bengals......some resume...

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6 minutes ago, Bomberjet said:

The coach was ousted from the Cowboys and spent 1 year with the lowly  Bengals......some resume...

where were the respective Ol's ranked?

2017 Dallas 4th run blocking 15th pass pro

2018 Cinci 22 /19

Last year Jets were 32/ 18

 

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also, Dallas and Cinci finished with a back in the top 10 rushing yards w/ Pollack.

Bell who was 5th his last year in Pitt is now last in DVOA

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Gase is not getting fired, but I predict that some replacements on the coaching staff will be made. 

Pollack will likely be one of them.  

At this point only Harrison, Edoga, Winters and McDermott are under contract.    There is no reason any of them can go anywhere, except Winters.  I can't see them bringing back Winters for $7mm, but any veteran player signed will be signed for alot of money.   There are no bargains in FA.  

The Jets probably could extend existing OL now if they wanted to.  But after the season, it is really about signing FA OL, which could be their own players or other players currently on other teams.  

Look at how many new OL the Bills brought in last season.  That will be the Jets.  Assuming that they need at least 10 real OL (injuries, etc.), the Jets will draft at least 3 OL and find a way to sign at least 4 others.  That is alot of work.  

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Only because you can't replace all five starters, I'd keep Beachum and Lewis. They suck the least.

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21 hours ago, Losmeister said:

where were the respective Ol's ranked?

2017 Dallas 4th run blocking 15th pass pro

2018 Cinci 22 /19

Last year Jets were 32/ 18

 

Cincy's term is not something to brag about

Jets need  another coach, plain and simple - whether it's Gase or the OL coach , whatever - I made a case some weeks ago that the NE Pats had a front OL with no higher than a #3 pick - look at what they have accomplished.. even with all those low draft picks year after year - it's all about the coaching....

Bill Parcell swears by the practice of never drafting an OL in the first round and what he believes in is good enough for me. Bring him in and and see what this team is capable of - Gase sucks and his OL coach is not far behind.

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9 minutes ago, Bomberjet said:

his OL coach is not far behind.

Merry Xmas! You can store you knowledge here

Image result for thimble

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8 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

Merry Xmas! You can store you knowledge here

 

Happy New Year - and hopefully you'll see daylight...

 

Ostrich.jpg

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Beachum, when healthy, has been above average. As I said he was playing hurt last week. He is getting to the end of his career but put him on a team like New Orleans he'd be starting and no one would say he was bad. Darnold held the ball forever last week. 
Alex Lewis was a starter in Baltimore and he's a starter here 
Edoga has all the skills to be a starting tackle but he's 21 
Shell is not garbage he's a replacement level starter maybe a swing tackle. 
Compton and Harrison are garbage (but Darnold managed to play awesome with Harrison last season)
they have 2 holes mostly interior they don't need to draft 5 linemen or go lineman 1-2 like people say. Edge rush is a worse need, CB is pretty bad too. 
Coaching is probably the worst need on the team right now 

Interesting. I have said many times that i respect your views on the OL but I disagree. Not with the sentiment that guys like Beachum and Shell aren’t “ok” but that we shouldn’t look to upgrade the entire unit this offseason.

Me? I would like dominance there. Not serviceable. Big holes for the RB. Steady and consistent time for the QB. Our guys can have good games and I still like Lewis, Compton and Edoga but they have the tendency to completely sh*t the bed as a unit and that cant happen as consistently as it does.

I’d go OL with the 1st and both 3rds with WR getting the nod at second unless there is an obvious slide we can’t ignore. Ya know... like the best player in the draft still sitting there for us. Now how can we ignore that?? 🤣


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pollack

2015 mcfadden 4th in rushing yards

2016 zeke 1st

2017 zeke 10th (987 yds only 10 games) morris 5 games 547 yards

2018 mixon 4th

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Just saw a stat that says Jets quarterbacks have been pressured on 44% of dropbacks this year - highest rate in NFL. Seven others follow between 38% and 40%.

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5 minutes ago, derp said:

Just saw a stat that says Jets quarterbacks have been pressured on 44% of dropbacks this year - highest rate in NFL. Seven others follow between 38% and 40%.

Now, consider this in the context of how many screens and short passes we have thrown. 

 

This offensive line has been nothing short of disastrous. 

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