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Okay Joe Douglas..

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15 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

Bell is averaging 3.2 YPC and has like a $15M cap hit next year. Getting a 2 or 3 for him is laughable; MAYBE a conditional 5th.

He’s got no blocking, literally carries guys forward after contact, and newsflash for the first time in his career isn’t getting busted for smoking weed this season get a reality check

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15 hours ago, Skeet Ulrich said:

Bell is averaging 3.2 YPC and has like a $15M cap hit next year. Getting a 2 or 3 for him is laughable; MAYBE a conditional 5th.

No, it isn't laughable because he's an established young star player and teams know the Jets' oline is subpar at best. He'll have takers if the Jets are looking to move him. So yeah, context...

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I don’t see what winning accomplishes for this team now when for either talent or coaching reasons Darnold does not look functional.  In the wins, Darnold looked great.  For whatever reason, including the OL not being able to block the Bengals DL, Darnold was not good yesterday.  Take the loss, because that is what it is.  

The best thing that can happen to the Jets now is for them to draft four new starters in the first three rounds next year.  At least 2 should be OL.   Gase gets a fresh start.  If the problem is more clearly coaching in 2020, the Jets get a new coach in 2021.  

To meld the other threads, and admitting I am a conspiracy theorist, I do think the Johnsons had a bad influence here.  Common sense tells me that unloading players this season for draft picks was the better long term strategy.  Maybe someone thought it more important to get useless wins.  

I do think Jamal Adams and the Cowboys could be destiny.  Their defense could use him, and Jerry could be desperate.  His window is closing.  I do like how he kept Garrett coaching in the last year of his contract.   The Jets thought they should extend Bowles.

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25 minutes ago, varjet said:

I do think Jamal Adams and the Cowboys could be destiny.  

Hope so!  We need picks, and a lot of them.  

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1 hour ago, Embrace the Suck said:

No, it isn't laughable because he's an established young star player and teams know the Jets' oline is subpar at best. He'll have takers if the Jets are looking to move him. So yeah, context...

28 is not young for a RB and you're totally ignoring his salary

 

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

-Robby Anderson:  Only bring back at WR3 or low-end WR2 money.  Otherwise let him walk.  

-Le'Veon Bell:  No reason to trade him, as we wouldn't get much back.  Keep him in 2020 then look to trade/cut him after June 1, 2021.

-Brian Poole:  Extension would be fine.  

-Jordan Jenkins;  Extension would be fine.  

-Powell:  Bring him back on the cheap.  Because why not?  He's not blocking anyone's progress.  Even if we add a RB in the draft I'd be happy to let Ty Montgomery walk and go to war with Bell, Powell, and a rookie as the top 3 backs.  

-Beachum:  Let him walk in free agency.  We can and should be able to upgrade in the draft.  

 

Additional moves:

  • Trade:  Jamal Adams
  • Cut:  Brian Winters
  • Re-Sign:  Demaryius Thomas, Rontez Miles, Alex Lewis, Lac Edwards, Neville Hewitt, Brandon Copeland
  • Allow to walk:   Brandon Shell, Ryan Kalil, Ty Montgomery, Tom Compton

 

This is a good list.

We could debate Adams, but I would trade him also if we could get more then the 1 and 3 Dallas reportedly offered. As tempting as that was, I think I would keep him (although I was po’ed at him around the trade deadline) if that was our best offer.

That said, he’s not the hill I’m dying on. If JD decided to take that deal in March, I’d be ok.

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1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

Again, don’t kid yourself into thinking this WR group is good enough to beat the better teams in the NFL.  They are not.  They’ve beaten some bad teams, with bad secondaries.  

Disagree. With a good o-line and a good QB you don't need more talent at WR and TE than what the Jets have right now. Would it help? Would the offense be more dangerous? Heck yeah. But you give Sam great protection and Bell adequate running lanes, this offense will be able to score enough points to beat a lot of teams in the NFL, both good and bad teams. Whats holding it back is not the weapons, its the terrible O-line play, and I think most if not everyone on this board agree.  

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It will be hilarious when JD doesn't draft an olinemen until the 5th round. Macc part 2.

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1 hour ago, PepPep said:

Disagree. With a good o-line and a good QB you don't need more talent at WR and TE than what the Jets have right now. Would it help? Would the offense be more dangerous? Heck yeah. But you give Sam great protection and Bell adequate running lanes, this offense will be able to score enough points to beat a lot of teams in the NFL, both good and bad teams. Whats holding it back is not the weapons, its the terrible O-line play, and I think most if not everyone on this board agree.  

That’s just a fallacy.  The current talent at those positions isn’t nearly good enough to win a Championship.  You guys are putting everything on the O-line, Robby, Crowder and DT are not winning you anything in this league.  

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15 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

That’s just a fallacy.  The current talent at those positions isn’t nearly good enough to win a Championship.  You guys are putting everything on the O-line, Robby, Crowder and DT are not winning you anything in this league.  

I wasn't nec. talking about winning a title. I was talking about being competitive, winning games, making the playoffs, etc. I was trying to make a point that first things first, yu have to fix the O-line and that what the Jets have as their weapons right now is good enough. 

Even so, the Pats won the Super Bowl with the following WRs: Phillip Dorsett, Julian Edelman, Chris Hogan, Cordarrelle Patterson, Matthew Slater. Not exactly a crew of superstars. 

A great O-line with a great QB can make average WR look great because even the best CBs in the league can't stop average WRs when the QB has a ton of time to throw. 

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We need another 2006-type draft, need to find a way to get two 1st rd picks and get two OL players. And some late round gems like Leon and Brad Smith were that year wouldn't hurt either.

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1 hour ago, joebabyny said:

We need another 2006-type draft, need to find a way to get two 1st rd picks and get two OL players. And some late round gems like Leon and Brad Smith were that year wouldn't hurt either.

This is a great draft to do that b/c there are some nice O-line prospects but this draft is not particularly deep at O-line, you need to get them in the first 3 rounds. However, this draft is VERY deep at WR. So, IMO, you go after O-line in the first two rounds and then EARLY in round 3 you take a CB. Then you go after WR in Rd. 3 with our pick or in rd. 4 or , etc. I think you look for pass rush help in FA.  

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On 12/2/2019 at 4:34 PM, Skeet Ulrich said:

28 is not young for a RB and you're totally ignoring his salary

 

No, I'm not. His salary was less than people thought he would get and when traded his bonuses will accelerate so he will cost less to the next team.

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On 12/2/2019 at 9:30 AM, JetFanatic said:

I agree.  I think it starts with drafting a stud LT.  There are a few names being thrown around as potential first round LTs so hopefully they can land one of them.  Either Andre Thomas, Tristan Wirfs or Jedrick Wills who's draft stock is rising.

This is a good offensive OT Draft.  You could add three or 4 more that will be called in the first 50 picks. 

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On 12/3/2019 at 6:25 PM, Tony The Wiz said:

This is a good offensive OT Draft.  You could add three or 4 more that will be called in the first 50 picks. 

I'm praying they go heavy on OL in this draft.  You can easily get your starting LT and G/C in the first few rounds

 

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A lot of teams are looking for OL help. Not just the Jets. We won’t be picking all these guys in a vacuum.

This team is in bad shape roster wise, and it will probably get worse before it gets better. People here are talking about trading guys like Adams and Quinnen to acquire picks. Those are “long range” type moves. You’re trading assets, hoping to turn them into a few more future assets. You need to hit on the picks and then wait for them to develop. Takes time.

We have a unproven GM and a HC who both will want to overhaul this roster. Best case scenario we are an extremely young team grooming good draft picks for the next two or three years. Hopefully it works out, but it’s not getting done quickly.

If I’m Darnold, and I’m watching this rebuild begin, I have to seriously consider whether to re sign here. If I do, I’m asking the moon. I don’t think I would if I were him. It’s not a situation conducive to a young QB 3 years in looking to improve.

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12 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

A lot of teams are looking for OL help. Not just the Jets. We won’t be picking all these guys in a vacuum.

This team is in bad shape roster wise, and it will probably get worse before it gets better. People here are talking about trading guys like Adams and Quinnen to acquire picks. Those are “long range” type moves. You’re trading assets, hoping to turn them into a few more future assets. You need to hit on the picks and then wait for them to develop. Takes time.

We have a unproven GM and a HC who both will want to overhaul this roster. Best case scenario we are an extremely young team grooming good draft picks for the next two or three years. Hopefully it works out, but it’s not getting done quickly.

If I’m Darnold, and I’m watching this rebuild begin, I have to seriously consider whether to re sign here. If I do, I’m asking the moon. I don’t think I would if I were him. It’s not a situation conducive to a young QB 3 years in looking to improve.

I’m telling you that we are screwing up the rookie deal window that we have for Darnold and there is no way in hell that he resigns with this sh*tshow that made his career as difficult as possible. It just doesn’t make sense for him. He’ll only get to finally show how good he really is in years 3 and 4 with how set back this roster is. This is assuming that we can make up for lost time and give him a useable offense. 

IF he pans out, we are stuck paying him a fortune before we ever got to benefit from having a young QB on a rookie deal. In that case, we better be prepared to build exclusively through the draft and master the comp pick game because we won’t be able to afford anything in FA and only be able to retain our own talented players that we draft.

I’m fine with this but it frustrates me that the sensible order for building a team, was completely 100% ignored and don’t backwards. If there is a blueprint for building a team, Mac did the complete opposite. Even getting a possible stud FQB was messed up because the timing was poor since he wasted 3 full offseasons and drafts leading up to drafting Sam. Darnold had ZERO support after 3 years of the rebuild. I just can’t even believe how much Mac set back the Jets. Solid 8 years of setbacks in my opinion when all is said and done. 

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It’s really hard to name a single person other than Darnold that will for sure be here in three years.  Maybe QW?  Maybe Mosley?  Maybe Adams/Maye?

Our roster is almost entirely compromised of players that are either bad, discontent, overpriced, or passing their prime now.  Moreover the players that are good and currently cheap aren’t locked away for very long and will likely depart with big contracts at some point.

It’s just a god awful foundation after what was five years of rebuilding.  Pretty much one of the worst GMing jobs in modern NFL history.

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14 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I’m telling you that we are screwing up the rookie deal window that we have for Darnold and there is no way in hell that he resigns with this sh*tshow that made his career as difficult as possible. It just doesn’t make sense for him. He’ll only get to finally show how good he really is in years 3 and 4 with how set back this roster is. This is assuming that we can make up for lost time and give him a useable offense. 

IF he pans out, we are stuck paying him a fortune before we ever got to benefit from having a young QB on a rookie deal. In that case, we better be prepared to build exclusively through the draft and master the comp pick game because we won’t be able to afford anything in FA and only be able to retain our own talented players that we draft.

I’m fine with this but it frustrates me that the sensible order for building a team, was completely 100% ignored and don’t backwards. If there is a blueprint for building a team, Mac did the complete opposite. Even getting a possible stud FQB was messed up because the timing was poor since he wasted 3 full offseasons and drafts leading up to drafting Sam. Darnold had ZERO support after 3 years of the rebuild. I just can’t even believe how much Mac set back the Jets. Solid 8 years of setbacks in my opinion when all is said and done. 

Yep, we’re on the exact same page, I agree with ( and basically said) everything you just said.

If anything though, you’re a little more optimistic then me, lol.

Maybe it’s because I’m older then you, and have watched a lot more of these “hotshot” QBs and GMs come and go. You can envision and hold out hope for them getting things sorted out here.

Im beyond the hoping phase. Browning Nagle was the last hype I bought into. Since then a player, HC, or GM has to show me. Then I believe, and that hasn’t happened often.

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21 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

I’m telling you that we are screwing up the rookie deal window that we have for Darnold and there is no way in hell that he resigns with this sh*tshow that made his career as difficult as possible. It just doesn’t make sense for him. He’ll only get to finally show how good he really is in years 3 and 4 with how set back this roster is. This is assuming that we can make up for lost time and give him a useable offense. 

IF he pans out, we are stuck paying him a fortune before we ever got to benefit from having a young QB on a rookie deal. In that case, we better be prepared to build exclusively through the draft and master the comp pick game because we won’t be able to afford anything in FA and only be able to retain our own talented players that we draft.

I’m fine with this but it frustrates me that the sensible order for building a team, was completely 100% ignored and don’t backwards. If there is a blueprint for building a team, Mac did the complete opposite. Even getting a possible stud FQB was messed up because the timing was poor since he wasted 3 full offseasons and drafts leading up to drafting Sam. Darnold had ZERO support after 3 years of the rebuild. I just can’t even believe how much Mac set back the Jets. Solid 8 years of setbacks in my opinion when all is said and done. 

This rookie QB thing is such a myth.  Yea these guys are on cheap contracts, but are teams struggling to afford players once they pay their QBs?  The cap is increasing every year, and the pool of players who deserve big money hasn't gotten bigger since the rookie scale was put in place.

Yea, would it be great to have put a foundation in place that could win in Darnold's early years, of course.  But Seattle had the cheapest QB in the league, then paid him, and are in the same place year after year.  Sam will need to be paid at the same time Leveon comes off the books which will help lessen the blow.  This is the least of our problems.

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19 minutes ago, Hael said:

It’s really hard to name a single person other than Darnold that will for sure be here in three years.  Maybe QW?  Maybe Mosley?  Maybe Adams/Maye?

Our roster is almost entirely compromised of players that are either bad, discontent, overpriced, or passing their prime now.  Moreover the players that are good and currently cheap aren’t locked away for very long and will likely depart with big contracts at some point.

It’s just a god awful foundation after what was five years of rebuilding.  Pretty much one of the worst GMing jobs in modern NFL history.

Joe Douglas better be good at GMing, my friend. that’s all I can say....

PEople here can check that “pedigree, learned from Ozzie stuff” at the door. He has to show me.

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1 minute ago, BCJet said:

This rookie QB thing is such a myth.  Yea these guys are on cheap contracts, but are teams struggling to afford players once they pay their QBs?  The cap is increasing every year, and the pool of players who deserve big money hasn't gotten bigger since the rookie scale was put in place.

Yea, would it be great to have put a foundation in place that could win in Darnold's early years, of course.  But Seattle had the cheapest QB in the league, then paid him, and are in the same place year after year.  Sam will need to be paid at the same time Leveon comes off the books which will help lessen the blow.  This is the least of our problems.

It’s not like it’s necessary. It’s just ideal. We can overcome not having Sam on a rookie deal. The outright squandering of the window and failure to build anything in 3 years prior to Sam being drafted, is MIND BLOWING to me. 

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1 minute ago, BCJet said:

This rookie QB thing is such a myth.  Yea these guys are on cheap contracts, but are teams struggling to afford players once they pay their QBs?  The cap is increasing every year, and the pool of players who deserve big money hasn't gotten bigger since the rookie scale was put in place.

Yea, would it be great to have put a foundation in place that could win in Darnold's early years, of course.  But Seattle had the cheapest QB in the league, then paid him, and are in the same place year after year.  Sam will need to be paid at the same time Leveon comes off the books which will help lessen the blow.  This is the least of our problems.

The problem with that is, Darnold has shown he isn’t the type of QB who can transcend or lift a bad roster. In his defense few are. The problem is after two more years playing on a very bad team, we probably won’t be any more certain of Sam then we are now, and we’re going to have to pay him 35-40 mill per.

Comparing him to the guy in Seattle is silly. They knew what they had by the time his second deal came due. He balled out from day one, won a Super Bowl (should’ve won two) you pay that guy.

Granted he had a great team around him, but he was what, a third round pick? They didn’t have to give up a high 1st and 3 seconds to get him and then sign him to a big rookie deal either.

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7 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

It’s not like it’s necessary. It’s just ideal. We can overcome not having Sam on a rookie deal. The outright squandering of the window and failure to build anything in 3 years prior to Sam being drafted, is MIND BLOWING to me. 

usatsi_10387176.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

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9 minutes ago, RobR said:

usatsi_10387176.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

We all get it. Macc was incredibly bad. But here we are.

I’ll say it one more time. Joe Douglas has a lot of work to do.

He better be good at this. Real good. A lot of people here are already doubting the new HC, and this roster is a mess.

The next few years are going to be a long cold winter.

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26 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

We all get it. Macc was incredibly bad. But here we are.

I’ll say it one more time. Joe Douglas has a lot of work to do.

He better be good at this. Real good. A lot of people here are already doubting the new HC, and this roster is a mess.

The next few years are going to be a long cold winter.

Absolutely. I'm normally pessimistic about Jets hires but I think we might have something with Douglas. He was very well respected around the league and learned from some of the best. So lets call it cautiously optimistic on my part. I think we'll learn a ton about his philosophies within the next four months, I only wish he had the power to fire Gase because he'll never be the answer. 

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Round One: LT

Round Two: C or WR

Round Three: C or WR (whatever you didn't get in round 2). If a stud G or T is there, take him and go for a C later.

Round Three: BPA between OL, WR, CB, Edge 

Trade down in any round to avoid a reach, but do not trade out of any round.  Draft at least 2 OL in Rounds 1-3 and another in 3-5.

Yeah, and try to acquire more picks. More picks.

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12 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Jerry Jeudy 

C

OL 

OL 

OL 

 

We differ only on the sequencing.  The Jets will likely be in a position to draft one of the three best OT prospects in the first round, and they should jump at that chance. Darnold's blind side need to be locked down, so the Jets need to get an elite talent at LT.  The rebuild of the OL starts right there, and they need a guy who can start from day one.

I do want a WR, but that position looks to be so deep that very good prospects will be available in rounds 2 and 3, so I hope the Jets go for one there. 

Really, the next OL taken (in round 2 or 3) after the LT should probably be BTOC available (Best tackle or center available).  Don't reach for a C, but if it is even close vs. another tackle, take the C.

The third OL should be BOLPA.  With two other lineman nailed down, they could gamble on a high upside/questionable character guy, or maybe just a young depth guy who can play G or T, and maybe could develop into a starter.  Quality young depth is needed, too, not just starters.

If the Jets somehow acquire another first rounder, I'd really like to see a double dip on the OL in Round 1.  Then maybe go WR in the 2nd, and then BPA in the third (choose one OL and one WR/CB/Edge). Then BPA the rest of the draft.

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14 hours ago, RobR said:

fire Gase because he'll never be the answer. 

I am not particularly fond of Gase. He comes across ok in interviews from my POV...

However, I do wonder how many people wrote off

Bill B with his losing record over his first 6 years....

or Pete Carroll just over .500 record after his 1st 4 years....

This is by no means a prediction, more like...    imagine if that happens....

another former Jet coach walks and becomes a real success....   it'd be very Jetsy

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15 hours ago, BCJet said:

This rookie QB thing is such a myth.  Yea these guys are on cheap contracts, but are teams struggling to afford players once they pay their QBs?  The cap is increasing every year, and the pool of players who deserve big money hasn't gotten bigger since the rookie scale was put in place.

Yea, would it be great to have put a foundation in place that could win in Darnold's early years, of course.  But Seattle had the cheapest QB in the league, then paid him, and are in the same place year after year.  Sam will need to be paid at the same time Leveon comes off the books which will help lessen the blow.  This is the least of our problems.

Totally agree.  Draft well, be smart with the money you hand out and you shouldn’t have any problems once you pay Darnold.  You can set yourself up for 2-3 year windows where you can make a serious run, if you don’t win a Super Bowl, then you re-tool, absorb some dead money for a season and then get back at it.  Kind of like what the Rams are going through right now. 

Again, you need to draft well, that’s ultimately where you win championships.  

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13 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Joe Douglas’ draft history is questionable at best. 

You want to prop that up with some details/facts?

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